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Do You Think They Changed Some Characters Too Much?


Do You Think They Changed Some Characters Too Much Appearance-Wise?  

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  1. 1. Do You Think They Changed Some Characters Too Much Appearance-Wise?

    • Yes
    • No
    • I'm Not Familiar Enough With Gaiden Characters to Properly Judge


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Again, are you just stupid? You absolutely can update the designs while staying true to the original. What the hell did you think they did with characters like Mae, Saber, Leon, Python (from Gaiden) or Matthis, Vyland, Gordin, Castor, etc (from Shadow Dragon)?

I swear, the fucking idiocy you've displayed is next level.

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The pallet swaps still keeping their shitty designs.,No one cares about them because they fail to stand out. Like Marth's pallet swaps still keeping their shitty old designs. It's okay with the Bord Cord bros because they have a gimmick in their design around it like. "Remember me as the handsome one". There's no excuses for the pallet designs not having a gimmick like the Bord Cord bros yet still keeping the shitty pallet swap designs with no notable changes to where they stand out. Stop being an idiotic retard thanks.

Edited by LoyalKing32
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14 minutes ago, LoyalKing32 said:

Yet they're forgettable and no one cares about them you fucking idiot imo.

Ok I need to get something done here

 

you insulting Archanea over that is a personal offense to me especially when it has been demonstrated Shadow Dragon and Shin Monsho have corrected this issue

and I am going to use the most egregious example to demonstrate exactly how this issue was corrected

Portrait_tomas_fe01.png

this is the portrait of both Gordin and Tomas in FE1. It is the exact same portrait and if this were the end of the story your argument would be founded. However,

Portrait_gordin_fe03.png

Portrait_tomas_fe03.png

both of them are given distinctive portraits in FE3, with the only real similarity left being their hair color. It is still recognizable as being Tomas from FE1, but they have removed the pallet swap nature of it and have Gordin the photocopy design from FE1, while having Tomas tinker around with the design. If that's not good enough,

Portrait_gordin_fe11.png

Portrait_gordin_fe12.png

Portrait_tomas_fe11.png

they give them further portraits in the DS remakes, with Gordin going as far as to have a wholly different portrait to make him look older in FE12, a distinction that did not exist in FE3 between the two books. There is absolutely zero confusion between the two units remaining in the DS remakes, and they have wholly eliminated this point in addition to giving them additional dialogue, fully developed story arcs, and in the case of FE12, support conversations. Archanea has among the most memorable cast in the entire series; it was even so especially in Japan even prior to the DS remakes, and the DS remakes further accentuates this with Support conversations and additional dialogue and character motives and development.

 

Throwing flagrant name calling around and insinuating this issue exists in the DS remakes serves to only make you look like an ass.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems
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Just now, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Ok I need to get something done here

 

you insulting Archanea over that is a personal offense to me especially when it has been demonstrated Shadow Dragon and Shin Monsho have corrected this issue

and I am going to use the most egregious example to demonstrate exactly how this issue was corrected

Portrait_tomas_fe01.png

this is the portrait of both Gordin and Tomas in FE1. It is the exact same portrait and if this were the end of the story your argument would be founded. However,

Portrait_gordin_fe03.png

Portrait_tomas_fe03.png

both of them are given distinctive portraits in FE3, with the only real similarity left being their hair. It is still recognizable as being Tomas from FE1, but they have removed the pallet swap nature of it. If that's not good enough,

Portrait_gordin_fe11.png

Portrait_gordin_fe12.png

Portrait_tomas_fe11.png

they give them further portraits in the DS remakes, with Gordin going as far as to have a wholly different portrait to make him look older in FE12, a distinction that did not exist in FE3 between the two books. There is absolutely zero confusion between the two units remaining in the DS remakes, and they have wholly eliminated this point in addition to giving them additional dialogue, fully developed story arcs, and in the case of FE12, support conversations. Archanea has among the most memorable cast in the entire series; it was even so especially in Japan even prior to the DS remakes, and the DS remakes further accentuates this with Support conversations and additional dialogue and character motives and development.

 

Throwing flagrant name calling around and insinuating this issue exists in the DS remakes serves to only make you look like an ass.

Oh god they look the exact same! Talk about forgettable cast crew wow!

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Leon and Python are palette swaps, you fucking lunatic. And their new designs are updates on their old design. They now look distinct while still staying true to their original design. Just I like said: It is possible to update old palette swaps to make them distinct yet still remaining true to their original design.

And people weren't outraged like claim they would if this was done for more characters.

Holy shit, is this simple stuff really so fucking hard to understand?

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Man I said that last one was my last comment but I'll say one more time. To me personally the shadow dragon remake was so boring in presentation and whatnot I literally couldn't finish it and sold it. Only fire emblem game I've ever done that too. That whole game is forgettable idk who that green archer even is?

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1 minute ago, RJWalker said:

Leon and Python are palette swaps, you fucking lunatic. And their new designs are updates on their old design. They now look distinct while still staying true to their original design. Just I like said: It is possible to update old palette swaps to make them distinct yet still remaining true to their original design.

And people weren't outraged like claim they would if this was done for more characters.

Holy shit, is this simple stuff really so fucking hard to understand?

And you can see how much Python got changed except for the hair you idiot! Even then it got tinkered with along with his face. Leon even gets much much more feminine with make up too. They got changed so much unlike Marth's shitty choices were Gordin and that other green dude look the exact same. They didn't get that changed in comparison to Leon and Python and that's why Marth's cast is forgettable imo. There's no excuses.

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Holy shit, this is too much. Leon and Python are still close to their original palette swap portraits. That's my whole fucking point. 

Another example. Palla, Catria and Est were also originally palette swaps. Yet, they too were updated slowly over the ages to look distinct while still remaining close to the original portrait that was shared between the three.

This is what people like me want. The new designs should still be close to the original. Even if it's a palette swap, you can remaing close to the original yet distinct from each other. 

And if you can't tell the difference between Gordin and Tomas while literally having their portraits are in front of you, then you need to get your eyes checked.

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1 minute ago, RJWalker said:

Holy shit, this is too much. Leon and Python are still close to their original palette swap portraits. That's my whole fucking point. 

Another example. Palla, Catria and Est were also originally palette swaps. Yet, they too were updated slowly over the ages to look distinct while still remaining close to the original portrait that was shared between the three.

This is what people like me want. The new designs should still be close to the original. Even if it's a palette swap, you can remaing close to the original yet distinct from each other. 

And if you can't tell the difference between Gordin and Tomas while literally having their portraits are in front of you, then you need to get your eyes checked.

They look the exact fucking same. Forgettable trash. Forsyth would look terrible with the overused purple hair. He looks better with green. Learn to accept change you fucking baby.

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Unbelievable.

The Whitewing sisters example should be more sufficient for anyone with even half brain to understand how you can take palette swaps and create visually distinct designs while still remaining true to the original design.

See how their designs evolved over the ages while still being true to the original portrait:

Palla

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/2/25/PaolaFE2.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110606184115

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/4/45/PaoraFE3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140311112740

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/8/8e/PallaSD.gif/revision/latest?cb=20090825015110


Catria

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/3/35/KatuaFE1.png/revision/latest?cb=20110603223628

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/c/cd/KatuaFE3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140311101743

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/8/80/CatriaFE12.png/revision/latest?cb=20160626045718

 

Est

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/3/34/EstFE2.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110606183931

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/0/0c/EstFE3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140311104006

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/3/36/Est.png/revision/latest?cb=20170118054946

 

See? All palette swaps yet now visually distinct. But you still immediately see that they're true to the original. This is what people like me who don't like the drastic design changes want.

Edited by RJWalker
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4 minutes ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Portrait_gordin_fe12.png

Portrait_tomas_fe11.png

Okay but Forsyth would look god awful with the same look from his Gaiden self. It doesn't fit his new personality as this overly excited dedicated soldier who constantly chews out Python for slacking.

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1 minute ago, RJWalker said:

Unbelievable.

The Whitewing sisters example should be more sufficient for anyone with even half brain to understand how you can take palette swaps and create visually distinct designs while still remaining true to the original design.

See how their designs evolved over the ages while still being true to the original portrait:

latest?cb=20110606184115https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/4/45/PaoraFE3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140311112740[/img]https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/8/8e/PallaSD.gif/revision/latest?cb=20090825015110[/img]

latest?cb=20110603223628/img]https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/c/cd/KatuaFE3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140311101743]latest?cb=20160626045718

latest?cb=20110606183931latest?cb=20140311104006latest?cb=20170118054946

See? All palette swaps yet now visually distinct. But you still immediately see that they're true to the original. This is what people like me who don't like the drastic design changes want.

At the very fucking least they look good. Forsyth with that ugly ass hair do and bleh hair color doesn't work the slightest. It did him no favors especially with the new enthusiast loud mouth personality he has. There's things that can't be saved and you're just going to have to deal with it.

Edited by LoyalKing32
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2 minutes ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

First Archanea is bland recolor trash, and now it looks good?

If that third picture is how Gordin looks in New Mystery. Fair enough. 

 

But Forsyth. It just doesn't work with his new personality. They had to trash it. 

Edited by LoyalKing32
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10 minutes ago, LoyalKing32 said:

If that third picture is how Gordin looks in New Mystery. Fair enough. 

 

But Forsyth. It just doesn't work with his new personality. They had to trash it. 

Gordin actually looks different between Shadow Dragon and New Mystery

Portrait_gordin_fe11.png

Portrait_gordin_fe12.png

the remakes actually put additional effort into showing Gordin age between the two games

 

Portrait_tomas_fe11.png

this is Tomas from both 11 and 12

 

FE12 (New Mystery) additionally gives characters fully developed backstories through Support conversations. As an example off the top of my head, Jeorge and his family despise each other, Gordin has self esteem issues and is depressed by the fact people think he's younger than he is, Abel and Est are engaged and deeply in love, Katarina has an entire effing subplot in the form of the Gaiden chapters of 12 and has supports with Cecil afterwords, there's the 7th Platoon trainees who were added to the remake and eventually become proper Altean Knights that the prologue focuses on; characters from FE3 Book 2 they make into a new faction and give a lot of backstory and development to, the relationship between Julian and Matthis and the antagonism between them is explored in greater detail and eventually resolved by their supports and the events of 12, I could go on.

Archanea has an extremely fucking developed cast; I'm not going to pretend that's from Shadow Dragon or even to a large degree the original games, although FE3 Book 2 did some of the heavy lifting; it comes mostly from FE12. But it's still fucking there and it is unjust to brush it aside based on presumptiveness and bias.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems
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4 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Yeah, about that. Here's Abel's old FE1 art, which the portrait Kozaki drew is based on:

FEARHT_Abel.png.f3892660b1a3035081485b5e967bf438.png

And, having just double-checked Gaiden, you can see Kliff's mouth moving under the bucktooth, but the bucktooth itself doesn't move when he talks.

Odd that this image isn't on the wiki. All other art lacks the tooth so there was no reason to act condescending.

Also, here's Kliff's art from HIS period confirming the he DOESN'T have a buck tooth. idgaf about Abel.

 

Edited by KliffIsTheOG
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Just now, KliffIsTheOG said:

Also, here's Kliff's art from HIS period confirming the he DOESN't have a buck tooth idgaf about Abel.

That art is from The Complete which was published four years after Gaiden was made, not his official art from Gaiden (which Kliff doesn't have, at least that I can find), and that doesn't change anything about his actual in-game portrait having one. 

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8 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

That art is from The Complete which was published four years after Gaiden was made, not his official art from Gaiden (which Kliff doesn't have, at least that I can find), and that doesn't change anything about his actual in-game portrait having one. 

For the sake of argument, what basis do you have that Kliff's portrait has one? the NES had limited colors for the character portraits, so they could not include red for the mouth. However, one of the colors in the portrait IS white, meaning that if there was a buck tooth, then they could color his mouth area white. The Abel and Kliff portrait comparison doesn't work because of the limited amount of smiling mouths possible with the small pixel count. Another piece of evidence is that during a recent interview, one of the developers mentioned that Kliff has an underbite. If Kliff has an underbite, then it would make no sense that he would have a buck tooth. (granted, he may not have been the designer of Kliff from Gaiden)

At the end of the day, I don't care if you think that Kliff has buck teeth or not so long as neither of us attempt to use it as undeniable fact, agreed?

Edited by KliffIsTheOG
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There were only two frames for talking and because the top of his mouth is flat, having the ending frame be a closed mouth would change his expression constantly, meaning that it is not necessarily a buck tooth.

That footage also has altered coloration, a hack perhaps?

Edited by KliffIsTheOG
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9 minutes ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

For the sake of argument, what basis do you have that Kliff's portrait has one? the NES had limited colors for the character portraits, so they could not include red for the mouth. However, one of the colors in the portrait IS white, meaning that if there was a buck tooth, then they could color his mouth area white. The Abel and Kliff portrait comparison doesn't work because of the limited amount of smiling mouths possible with the small pixel count. Another piece of evidence is that during a recent interview, one of the developers mentioned that Kliff has an underbite. If Kliff has an underbite, then it would make no sense that he would have a buck tooth. (granted, he may not have been the designer of Kliff from Gaiden)

At the end of the day, I don't care if you think that Kliff has buck teeth or not so long as neither of us attempt to use it as undeniable fact, agreed?

For the sake of the argument, here's a side by side comparison of two enlarged shots of Kliff in his talking animation (left) and not (right).

Kliff.png.8e1b1c8dcf9eb2398cd92623a9e7ac88.png

The bucktooth does not move or change during his talking animation, discounting the idea that it's just his mouth. Instead, there's a spot of black pixels underneath his mouth, showing his mouth being open.

Would you mind linking that interview?

Edited by AzureSen
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For the sake of argument, if you added a skin colored pixel to the filled in black pixel when talking, his mouth would appear ridiculously tall.

Do we have any other characters who talk whose initial portrait has an open mouth for comparison?

Edited by KliffIsTheOG
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