Colonel M Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Greetings. You may know me as esteemed Tyrant Colonel M. I have been lurking the forums for a little while and also have been posting a little bit. Recently I was looking at the this thread and it made me re-consider how the FE6 Tier List hasn't really been updated in a long time. For the short-hand version: I think that the tier list isn't too shabby, but could use some improvement. This topic, by the way, is not to detract from the current "Let's make a tier list" thread. In fact, I heavily encourage users continue to post in there as it helps gauge opinions overall. Link to old tier list Basically what I have decided is to re-do the tier list to a point. The rules I will place in the spoiler tag below the tier list. I realize a lot of the higher ups like Gwympage have went to Reddit and some like Red Fox of Fire have since likely retired; however, I figured that I could still post this and maybe finalize everything within it or settle old scores. The tier list assumes both routes. No route is favored over the other. -Top Tier- Miledy Marcus Rutger Percival Lalum Elphin -High Tier- Saul Shanna Shin Niime Alan Lance Zealot Tate Astor -Upper Mid- Zeiss Noah Deke Yodel Cecilia Clarine Klein Sue Echidna Igrene Ellen -Mid- Fir Bartre Roy Lugh Chad Fae Lot Treck -Lower Mid- Gonzalez Garret Lilina Cath Raigh Oujay -Low Tier- Dayan Juno Wolt Dorothy Karel Ward Geese Hugh Douglas Bors -Utter Shit- Barth Sophia -The Worst Character in Fire Emblem History- Wendy Spoiler (These are being looked over atm)"Ranks Are Irrelevant in This List"This is the "Efficiency" Tier List. This tier list does not abide by the requirements of the in-game ranks given to us. For the FE6 Ranked Tier list, please see This Thread.Efficiency - "accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort."This is merely stating that we are assuming that we are not wasting time in these chapters. By "jobs" this could mean from seizing the throne, luring in units, killing units, "chapter requirements" (in example getting all of the villages, recruiting a character). Perhaps the best way to state this is that we are not "blitzkreiging" through the game, but at the same time we are not wasting time using the arena, etc."When Presenting an Argument, Remember to Provide Evidence"I never thought I'd see the day when I need to say this, but it's something that I need to address. When you are making an argument that you seriously want to be changed (as in not hinting but insinuating that I change a position of one or two characters), you must present an argument. This argument should include:- What the character does before the second character joins. How they contribute positively or negatively to efficiency before the other unit joins.- A side-by-side comparison between the two characters when they are together.- How the units do against the enemy, offensively and defensively.- Supports, if they are practical. It is generally assumed that Upper Mids on up are usually considered "valid" to argue on a character. There are exceptions, such as Marcus and Zealot, who are likely dropped when their positives aren't as profound or they are starting to become a negative to the team. You can assume if a Lower Mid support is possible, but keep in mind that it shouldn't be the crux of your argument.- Obviuosly later comparisons between the two characters.- If it is a utility unit vs. a long term unit, assume the following scenario. Who's wins are more profound: the utility unit's or the long term unit. For example, would Zealot's contributions from C7 - 13 outweigh Lugh's entire existance.- Any way to find a tie breaker. Offensive vs. Defensive doesn't really count as a tie breaker. You can use other examples, such as a unit's earlygame contributions or how a unit's profound durability outweighs the unit's offensive advantages. Most of the time tiebreakers are rarely needed.- Just keep in mind that you are not sandbagging the other unit in question. If you are giving your unit a stat booster or something valuable of the sort, remember to state the opportunity cost and such with said resource. Nothing is free in this game.Remember that your comparisons should have what is generally found in an argument. Statistics are very important when discussing two characters. For example, stating "Lot has Avoid problems" without backing up the statement will make me leave your argument in question. Saying "Lot's 20 Avoid is not that great. Using the Fighter here, it has 70% Displayed, 82.30% True" will help me become more convinced with your argument. Also please use other statistics such as "Chance of Death" or "Chances to Crit in One of Two Hits" in your arguments. Anything to help show the advantages of the two characters and who stands out a little more. Also, saying a statement such as "OJ is comparable to Dieck" in a OJ vs. Bartre debate is irrelevant to the point. We value who's doing better between the two in this scenario, not who compares best with the team. We outline the unit's positives and compare it with their negatives, which has the least opportunity cost when being used, and finally who creates more of a positive for efficiency's sake."When Arguing With Units, You Are to Assume The Unit Is Being Used"This is to delete the recruitment costs of a unit to prevent sandbagging certain units from their more correct tier placements. This statement also promises that the unit will be used throughout the entire game or, in utility unit's cases, until either their positives are less profound or they become a negative to the team. I will not assume that a Unit will be used in Gaiden Chapters; however, due to the restrained deployment slots in most, if not all of them. A unit that is forced is considered a positive under most circumstances with the rare occassion that they make the Chapter(s) completely inefficient. For example, while Ward is considered a positive throughout his earlygame chapters due to what amount of damage counts, units such as Wendy can have profound negatives because they have major negatives that outweigh their minor positives. This is also to prevent auto-toping Roy due to not taking up a unit slot."No Arena Abusing"This should be rather obvious with the Efficiency defitnition, but we are not assuming Arena Abuse. 20/1 Dieck by Chapter 8 is an automatic toss-out."The Tier Player Is Not Considered 100% Perfect; However..."...This does not give the person the freedom to assume things such as "we're getting our healers attacked". Efficiency still has a "cost", which can not only mean time, but also life. A unit that is considered a liability defensively should still be duly noted. We are not, however, assuming stupid tactics such as "what if" situations. The general thoughts through a Tier Player's Mind is:- What he / she can accomplish this turn- Who can accomplish said tasks with minimal risks- Protection of certain units (healers and dancers in particular)- Who can effectively clear the enemies that are within range- Who can survive on the Enemy PhaseEtc. It follows mostly to Interceptor's idea that the Tier Player is pefect, but what I am insinuating is that you don't get an auto-pass on being weak durably. There is still an opportunity cost within that unit. While Offense should still be recognized, Defense should as well."Availability is a Major Factor Concerning a Character's Use of Powerful Weapons and Stat Boosters"Pretty self explanatory. Characters with excellent availability on powerful weapons or stat boosters, even if they have to share them, are weighed more favorably than those that come after the weapon or stat booster exists."Two Characters Competing For a Promotional Item Are Compared as Having Gotten it For Stat Comparison"This doesn't negate opportunity cost for taking the Promotional Item if a character is being compared to a pre-promote, especially if there is large competition where a significant number of characters win in stats."All Chapters, Including Gaidens, Are Assumed"Pretty self-explainatory."Other Information"BEFORE ARGUING, PLEASE READ - Vykan's Tier List FAQGeneral FE6 InfoTrue HitI also have a few other formulas that I did / asked around for. These might be useful for other characters that you're arguing with, so I'll put them here."Chance of Double Crit"Assume that a unit has a 55% chance to Crit in one hit. The formula would be just multiplying it twice. .55 % .55 = .30. So a unit with 55% Crit would have about a 30% chance to land two criticals in one round."Chance of Single Crit"The formula is taking the Crit rate as a decimal and subtracting it from 1.0. So, for example, a 46% Crit would display as 54% chance to not Crit. Now multiply that value twice (.54 * .54 = 29.16%). Now subtract the result from 100 again. (100 - 29.16 = 70.84%). Therefore a unit that doubles and has a 46% chance to crit has a 70.84% chance to crit in at least one of the two hits."Chance to Crit + Hit"This is useful for units that are a little inaccurate but still wield something like a Killer Weapon. Simply take the True Hit and multiply it by the chance to Crit. For example, a unit with 88% Chance to Hit and 46% Crit would have a .88 * .46 = 40% chance to Critical and Hit the unit. This can "usually" be assumed as a "Chance of Death" if the unit is 3HKOing the enemy.Feel free to add any more calculations if you'd like. I'd appreciate it, and I'm pretty sure the other people within the lists would as well.Oh and one more thing:"Be Nice Kiddies"This is the internet. I understand that people can instigate others to get mad at their statements, but don't take everything seriously. This doesn't give the person the right to instigate either. Alert me or a mod if you have any problems with this and we'll try to address the situation to the best of our abilities. Despite the bitterness between the parties, it's not that difficult to get along so long as we hold back our elitism towards each other. Edited November 8, 2017 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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