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Awakening did a poor job of keeping the continuity set up by Shadow Dragon and New Mystery of the Emblem, having retconned quite a bit of the lore.

Examples: Medeus' revival, Lucina's ability to use the Falchion, geography, degenerating, and so forth

I want to here others' takes on it, but I'll probably still debate (not in a mean way) that there is just about no continuity.

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I think Awakening only did poorly with the story-writing and world-building, I see nothing wrong with the continuity.

What's wrong with Lucina wielding the Falchion? And why is it okay for Chrom to wield it then? And it's not the same Falchion Marth wielded, remember? Marth's Falchion was destroyed and a new one was created.

I don't really know anything about the geography or Medeus that you're referring to though, since I'm not extremely familiar with Archanea.

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Err, I would have put this in the Awakening subforum, or perhaps General Fire Emblem since this discussion should also involve Gaiden and its soon to be released remake, and that's just too many games for it to fit in one's subforum.

Anyway, on the subject of only men wielding Falchion, I think the existence of Alm's is stand to reason that there's more than just one of these swords in this universe, and that awakening's falchion could be yet a third one. And if there is a male requirement, then it's a crappy requirement that should be retconned. This series deals in bloodlines when it comes to wielding regalia weapons, not gender exclusion.

As for degenerating manaketes, there is an in-universe explanation is there not? Manaketes go to sleep. That's what Tiki had been doing all those years. Fates' rainbow sage and Anankos also follow this plot point that immortal beings (or people that live so long it may as well be eternity) eventually go mad.

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Just now, Gustavos said:

Err, I would have put this in the Awakening subforum, or perhaps General Fire Emblem since this discussion should also involve Gaiden and its soon to be released remake, and that's just too many games for it to fit in one's subforum.

That's my b. I instinctively did it because the conversation originally started in an Echoes thread.

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1 hour ago, IcyHeroGamer said:

Medeus' revival

No, it didn't. Medeus' revival has nothing to do with the Binding Shield. What you meant to say was "the Earth Dragons' unsealing".

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The geography problem is the easiest to address. A lot can happen in several centuries. Either Akenaea experienced global warming or it has something to do with the apocalypse on wings that is Grima. I don't think that's so much a retcon as its making the continent show the passage of time.

 

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What's wrong with Lucina being able to use Falchion? She's descended from Chrom (who wields it), who in turn is descended from Marth (who also uses it). I don't see what's wrong with the Falchion being some kind of ancient family heirloom that is passed down the generations?

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

What's wrong with Lucina being able to use Falchion? She's descended from Chrom (who wields it), who in turn is descended from Marth (who also uses it). I don't see what's wrong with the Falchion being some kind of ancient family heirloom that is passed down the generations?

In the data leak topic Icygamer posted a pic of it being stated that only Marth, the last male descendant of Anri can wield the Falchion so that's probably why. Though it could be that it was localisation only. 

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2 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

No, it didn't. Medeus' revival has nothing to do with the Binding Shield. What you meant to say was "the Earth Dragons' unsealing".

Medeus was still an Earth Dragon, so his seal would have been lost.

 

To address the Lucina Falchion thingyCywrB_gVEAQRmjt.thumb.jpg.1f7a88ff46289b8e9080978fa875800f.jpg

Granted it should be taken with a grain of salt, because localization stuff.

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1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In the data leak topic Icygamer posted a pic of it being stated that only Marth, the last male descendant of Anri can wield the Falchion so that's probably why. Though it could be that it was localisation only. 

Lucina and Odin (If I remember right) have a conversation about how Falchion chooses it's weilder in the same vein as the Master Sword. It could just be that Falchion decided not to accept Elice (remember Falchion was a part of their house for a long ass time prior to 11, Marth and Elice would probably have contacted it as kids) because she's a shitty endgame healer.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The geography problem is the easiest to address. A lot can happen in several centuries. Either Akenaea experienced global warming or it has something to do with the apocalypse on wings that is Grima. I don't think that's so much a retcon as its making the continent show the passage of time.

Surely you jest. That is not how tectonics work and a cataclysm of the magnitude required to alter the shape of continents this relatively quickly will end up doing way more than just that. Like cause a localized extinction for a long, long time. As in, way longer than a mere 2000 years.

1 hour ago, IcyHeroGamer said:

Medeus was still an Earth Dragon, so his seal would have been lost.

"His seal" doesn't exist because he was never sealed inside of the Dragon's Table.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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Naga's Falchion being boy-only (if that's what Kaga planned) would be an artifact of the Lore before Genealogy of the Holy War happpened. I mean, if we're applying GotHW and Awakening's holy blood with its brands then Marth shouldn't have the ability to use the sword since he's directly descended from Anri's brother.

Edited by Salamud

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2 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

Surely you jest. That is not how tectonics work and a cataclysm of the magnitude required to alter the shape of continents this relatively quickly will end up doing way more than just that. Like cause a localized extinction for a long, long time. As in, way longer than a mere 2000 years.

Zelda begs to differ. Less than 10,000 years and a fucking ice age changes Hyrule like Play-Doh. Fictional plate techtonics are a lot more volitile

And as I said earlier, it might not be male only so much as Falchion saying "fuck that shitty healer unit Elice, I'm going with Marth the Unpromotable Lord over that shit". Or hell, MAYBE IT JUST HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT ELICE CAN'T USE SWORDS.

Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems

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Re: the Shield of Seals, I was wrong that it was whole during Shadow Dragon, but that just reinforces that the shield being incomplete alone isn't enough to bring back Medeus. The shield was incomplete for 600 years according to (New) Mystery and then incomplete for yet another indeterminable amount of time pre-Awakening, and yet Medeus still could only come back with help, and not even at full strength.

And of course that's moot because Medeus is canonically dead for real, as per Gotoh's words at the end of (New) Mystery:

Quote

Gotoh: Marth, brave prince of Altea. Thanks to your valiant efforts, Shadow Dragon Medeus has been completely obliterated. Medeus's servants--the earth dragons-- have once again returned to darkness. As long as the Binding Shield exists, they will never see the light again. Marth, the chosen Prince of Light, descendant of the hero Anri. You have not only saved mankind, but us dragonkin as well... 

 

Just now, NinjaMonkey said:

What's wrong with Lucina being able to use Falchion? She's descended from Chrom (who wields it), who in turn is descended from Marth (who also uses it). I don't see what's wrong with the Falchion being some kind of ancient family heirloom that was passed down the generations?

There was a translation error in Shadow Dragon that says only male descendants of Anri may wield the Falchion, as per the screenshot above. (Which then calls into question why Gharnef thought he could use Falchion against Medeus if only Marth can wield it.)

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1 minute ago, RedEyedDrake said:

Surely you jest. That is not how tectonics work and a cataclysm of the magnitude required to alter the shape of continents this relatively quickly will end up doing way more than just that. Like cause a localized extinction for a long, long time. As in, way longer than a mere 2000 years.

No that's not how the real world works but most people can't shoot fireballs either. 

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1 hour ago, Salamud said:

Naga's Falchion being boy-only is an artifact of the Lore before Genealogy of the Holy War happpened. I mean, if we're applying GotHW and Awakening's holy blood with its brands then shouldn't have the ability to use the sword since he's directly descended from Anri's brother.

The pre-Awakening Falchion never needed actual Jugral-esque Holy Blood or it's trappings with the Brands to function.

1 hour ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Zelda begs to differ. Less than 10,000 years and a fucking ice age changes Hyrule like Play-Doh. Fictional plate techtonics are a lot more volitile

10000 years is how long since it been since the last major Ice Age in real life as well. The timescales involved can't be compared because one is five times larger than the other.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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3 minutes ago, RedEyedDrake said:

"His seal" doesn't exist because he was never sealed inside of the Dragon's Table.

I missed it with my previous post, but this too; Medeus was killed the first time by Anri, not sealed along with the other Earth Dragons.

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1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

I missed it with my previous post, but this too; Medeus was killed the first time by Anri, not sealed along with the other Earth Dragons.

To add, he was never sealed in the Dragon's Table by the Divine Dragons to begin with.

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2 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Re: the Shield of Seals, I was wrong that it was whole during Shadow Dragon, but that just reinforces that the shield being incomplete alone isn't enough to bring back Medeus. The shield was incomplete for 600 years according to (New) Mystery and then incomplete for yet another indeterminable amount of time pre-Awakening, and yet Medeus still could only come back with help, and not even at full strength.

And of course that's moot because Medeus is canonically dead for real, as per Gotoh's words at the end of (New) Mystery:

 

There was a translation error in Shadow Dragon that says only male descendants of Anri may wield the Falchion, as per the screenshot above. (Which then calls into question why Gharnef thought he could use Falchion against Medeus if only Marth can wield it.)

That's actually a good point. Gharnef had to be keeping Elice around for more than just the Aum Staff, surely; he might just not have been privy to Falchion's decision to choose Marth over her.

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1 minute ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Zelda begs to differ. Less than 10,000 years and a fucking ice age changes Hyrule like Play-Doh. Fictional plate techtonics are a lot more volitile

Good God, please, let's not talk about Zelda continuity, my brain hurts enough as is.

3 minutes ago, Salamud said:

Naga's Falchion being boy-only is an artifact of the Lore before Genealogy of the Holy War happpened. I mean, if we're applying GotHW and Awakening's holy blood with its brands then shouldn't have the ability to use the sword since he's directly descended from Anri's brother.

It's entirely possible that the Falchion is a Baldur thing, but it's unlikely.

The Holy Weapons came into existence because Galle went to presumably Archanea to drink the dragon's blood, and then all the Loptyr stuff happened, and the crusaders, and blah blah blah.

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1 minute ago, RedEyedDrake said:

The pre-Awakening Falchion never needed actual Jugral-esque Holy Blood or it's trappings with the Brands to function.

10000 years is how long since it been since the last major Ice Age in real life as well. The timescales involved are impossible to compare.

And there's the big flaw in the argument. Fire emblem isn't real life and has never pretended to act like it either. In a world of dragons, mages and a medieval superheroes I wouldn't be applying real life science and logic. They can afford to ignore all that and so can we. 

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Lucina is likely able to wield the Falchion because the hilt was changed. In her support with Owain: "The guard and pommel have been replaced over the years, changing its appearance. But it remains Falchion still." Granted, this doesn't say that women are now able to wield the sword; but it is my theory. A Game Theory!

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I am actually really happy. I seem to be one of the few people who really enjoyed Awakening. Off course, I don't deny the games' many plotholes. But it's great they have decided to elaborate on Awakening's final boss, which wasn't very fleshed out. 

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Just now, RedEyedDrake said:

To add, he was never sealed in the Dragon's Table by the Divine Dragons to begin with.

Him being not sealed away was a plot point, now that my memory is jogged, since not being sealed away with his brethren and the events he experiences because of it play a major part in why he chose to form Dohlr and enslave humanity.

So yeah, the whole "Medeus not being revived is bad continuity" argument is pretty thoroughly debunked at this point, I feel.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

And there's the big flaw in the argument. Fire emblem isn't real life and has never pretended to act like it either. In a world of dragons, mages and a medieval superheroes I wouldn't be applying real life science and logic. They can afford to ignore all that and so can we. 

Once again, order of magnitude. You're talking about the "completely regular people ignoring the laws of physics" brand of ignoring real life logic.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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