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Think Armored Units will be good?


Think Armored Classes will be good  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Armored classes be ok

    • Yes, they'll be great classes you'll want to pick
      3
    • Yes, they'll be an above average class
      12
    • They'll be an average class
      15
    • While characters in it may be good, the class isn't something you're gonna wanna pick
      3
    • All Armored units will be below average.
      1


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So I'm going to assume Armor Knights and Barons retain 4 movement in Echoes. I was hoping they'd get a buff, or even better have normal movement for at least one game if Archers can get 1-range.

I have some comments and ideas on ways Armored Units could be balanced in Echoes.

Spoiler

 

I can think of a few ideas to buff Armored Units with four move. In the original, all non flying units are reduced to 1 movement in desert chapters, thus leveling the playing field for Armored units. The remake could either continue this or have armored units have unchanged movements in the desert chapters with the reasoning that the classes fortitude is enough to tough out a mere sandstorm

Something helped armored units in the original was the Warp spell which two characters on Alm's route got, however no one on Cellica's route learned this spell. The remake could fix this by giving more characters warp.

Armored units should have greater stats then other classes, especially in defense and attack to make up for their low movement. Armored Units could also be one of the only classes with resistance, thus solidifying their defense.

Unique items only Armored units can move which improve their stats would be helpful like large shield that give improve defense or avoid.

The other thing that could help is if Armored Units have really great skills. Skills that could help are:

* Some sort of provoke skill, this worked wonders in PoR for Gatrie. It would be a command skill rather then a passive skill, like the provoke skill in Berwick Saga.

* Alternatively give them a skill, that creates a chance that when an enemy attacks a nearby ally, there is a chance they'll end up facing the armor Knight instead. This would be similar to the Guard skill in Berwick saga.

* Armor Knights have a skill where nearby ally units have increased defense like in Vestaria saga.

* Armored units get a classic Pavise/Great Shield that nullifies all damage, especially magic.

 

Do you think armored units will be any good, vote to decide.

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Warp, Again, Physic, and Fortify exist to resolve the movement problem or otherwise let them act somewhat separately from the army. Barons are otherwise really good in this game, taking trivial damage from almost everyone that isn't a mage and dealing out solid chunks of damage in return. The only reason I didn't use them more often in the original was because Alm, the Whitewings, and the Clerics did everything on their own after a certain point; still, there was definitely a point where Lukas was critical to my army.

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I'm surprised no one chose "They'll be great classes you want to pick" because in echoes there's Fatigue.  And you know what that means?  It means you have to use your Armorknights/Barons!  Anyone who thinks they are crap in echoes or in the original are either lying to you, haven't played the original, or are just plain ignorant of their usefulness.  You know how many times Valbo/Valbar saved My hide in Celica's side?  How godly Force was on the front lines?  How valuable Barons/Generals are to you in Gaiden/Presumably echoes?  

They are fantastic, with the only weaknesses being Resistance and movement.  With items like the Dragon shield, magic shield, Angel ring, and speed ring the resistance problem is slightly more managable.  Plus, as Iridium stated, Warp, physic and (is again in Echoes?) fortify will help keep tabs on your knights wherever they are.  Which is likely the front lines and choke points, making Physical tanks more important here then they have ever been in most FE games.  Defense and HP were by far some of the most important stats in Gaiden due to how damage worked, and any unit was likely to be swarmed from multiple angles.  Having high Defense made it so minimal damge was received (even if you were doubled), and there were few moments in the game where witches and other magic units were in such variety where you were in constant threat to losing your knights and barons.    Speed is good, but defense made the world go round.  

Don't undervalue the Barons or Knights.

Edited by Lord Tullus
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Yeah, Warp is bonkers in this game, and I remember my Barons, particularly Forsythe, being absolute monsters. Forsythe was great because he actually had enough Speed to double most things, and those he couldn't double weren't a threat since he was taking 1 damage from everything.

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37 minutes ago, Lord Tullus said:

(is again in Echoes?)

It's a spell unique to Cleric Faye, but yes.

Also, since you mention Stamina, it's worth pointing out that Valbar -- as far as we can tell -- has the highest Stamina in the game.

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40 minutes ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

Yeah, Warp is bonkers in this game, and I remember my Barons, particularly Forsythe, being absolute monsters. Forsythe was great because he actually had enough Speed to double most things, and those he couldn't double weren't a threat since he was taking 1 damage from everything.

Forsythe was my go to guy for defeating Desaix early.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Tullus said:

I'm surprised no one chose "They'll be great classes you want to pick" because in echoes there's Fatigue.  And you know what that means?  It means you have to use your Armorknights/Barons!  Anyone who thinks they are crap in echoes or in the original are either lying to you, haven't played the original, or are just plain ignorant of their usefulness.  You know how many times Valbo/Valbar saved My hide in Celica's side?  How godly Force was on the front lines?  How valuable Barons/Generals are to you in Gaiden/Presumably echoes?  

They are fantastic, with the only weaknesses being Resistance and movement.  With items like the Dragon shield, magic shield, Angel ring, and speed ring the resistance problem is slightly more managable.  Plus, as Iridium stated, Warp, physic and (is again in Echoes?) fortify will help keep tabs on your knights wherever they are.  Which is likely the front lines and choke points, making Physical tanks more important here then they have ever been in most FE games.  Defense and HP were by far some of the most important stats in Gaiden due to how damage worked, and any unit was likely to be swarmed from multiple angles.  Having high Defense made it so minimal damge was received (even if you were doubled), and there were few moments in the game where witches and other magic units were in such variety where you were in constant threat to losing your knights and barons.    Speed is good, but defense made the world go round.  

Don't undervalue the Barons or Knights.

I hope so, they'd better give armored units great stats.

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1 hour ago, Iridium said:

It's a spell unique to Cleric Faye, but yes.

Also, since you mention Stamina, it's worth pointing out that Valbar -- as far as we can tell -- has the highest Stamina in the game.

Wait... so stamina is a stat now?  Like, there's an amount units can exhaust?  I thought it was just indicated by the smily faces.

And is it Stamina or Fatigue?  I'll get confused soon if I don't learn now.

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By stamina he means fatigue.

 

I'm iffy on this unless classes provide further growth modifiers (including negatives for def on other classes) or fatigue modifiers. Everybody had their def growths buffed over original gaiden so class bases/character bases are slightly less important than in original and beyond that until Baron the defense base of the armoured classes just aren't that much higher than their same-tier counterparts, if higher at all in the case of soldier. There are also armourslaying skills now and one of them is on something that should be fairly common in enemy hands--the steel lance. As well, enemies appear to have had their speed stat buffed on hard and likely even further on lunatic making AS thresholds harsher for the slower armours, hurting their defensive value greatly.

 

I don't think they'll be useless or anything, just maybe not quite as obviously and easily useful as they were in the original. Shove certainly helps them and other foot units, but outside of that I'm not seeing any changes in their favour compared to changes against their favour.

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4 minutes ago, lysander said:

By stamina he means fatigue.

 

I'm iffy on this unless classes provide further growth modifiers (including negatives for def on other classes) or fatigue modifiers. Everybody had their def growths buffed over original gaiden so class bases/character bases are slightly less important than in original and beyond that until Baron the defense base of the armoured classes just aren't that much higher than their same-tier counterparts, if higher at all in the case of soldier. There are also armourslaying skills now and one of them is on something that should be fairly common in enemy hands--the steel lance. As well, enemies appear to have had their speed stat buffed on hard and likely even further on lunatic making AS thresholds harsher for the slower armours, hurting their defensive value greatly.

 

I don't think they'll be useless or anything, just maybe not quite as obviously and easily useful as they were in the original. Shove certainly helps them and other foot units, but outside of that I'm not seeing any changes in their favour compared to changes against their favour.

Armored Units will need really great skills to make up for it, I think.

 

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Just now, Emperor Hardin said:

Armored Units will need really great skills to make up for it, I think.

 

At the moment, their only passive appears to be at the Baron level and it's "Halve damage from bows". Could be useful, but again if they increased enemy archer AS enough you'd be at-best matching gaiden level of defensive performance against them.

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5 minutes ago, lysander said:

At the moment, their only passive appears to be at the Baron level and it's "Halve damage from bows". Could be useful, but again if they increased enemy archer AS enough you'd be at-best matching gaiden level of defensive performance against them.

That seems ok, but not above average.  Halve damage from magic would be far more useful.

Have they leaked Baron movement stats? I'm guessing it is still 4.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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