Character Endings

[Tryhard]

i dunno, it's just a little strange to see you complain about gaiden maps not being changed (to name a thing), when they're not any worse than awakening's (granted, this is not an accomplishment, and i'm not saying there isn't issues because of that because there are), yet I've never seen you complain about that map design (to my knowledge)

as for the endings a lot of the kaga endings were kinda depressing like that. arran just straight up dies in his fe3 one. i won't exactly say they are good, but I don't exactly mind them keeping them more or less the same ala shadow dragon and new mystery.

in fact, i think I prefer there's no paired endings so to speak.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Tryhard

[Baldrick]

It's just the nature of a remake that you'd be pre-spoiled about some things if you played the original. I'm sure the endings will be punched up like Saber's line about the pirates was.

The endings being the same would have come as a surprise if you hadn't looked them up beforehand, you naughty boy.

Faye's ending doesn't seem that bad, it's a typical "they lived a peaceful life" ending. I think having some bittersweet endings is at least better than having no bittersweet endings.

[TheWill]

Honestly, I completely disagree with a lot of the notions behind peoples disappointment towards Faye's ending.

Not to be rude, but I'm not sure what people expected. Faye, similar to Celica, was Alm's childhood friend and developed feelings for him at a very young age. Unlike Celica however, she continued to grow up into adolescence with him, forging various memories and that whole time, continuing to keep holding onto those feelings. Unlike Catria and Cordelia, Faye has much more reason to be in love with Alm. If she can't get over her unrequited feelings towards Alm, which let's be real here, is a very common occurrence, even in real life, of course she'll remain unhappy as her life progresses. The only way she'll be happy is if she develops feelings for someone else or move on from her current feelings, but honestly without any social support or psychological help, she wouldn't be able to make that step. 

It sucks, it's sad, but it's the reality for her. She's not going to suddenly drop her feelings she held onto for years just because Alm doesn't love her, she needs time and support to heal. It was inevitable she'd be unhappy like that. 

Frankly, it makes much more sense than Gray becoming an alcoholic because his best friend died since he still has a chick he loves and close friendships in Cliff/Alm/Faye at least.

Edited April 5, 2017 by SlipperySlippy

[Pikappa93]

I'm ok with Echoes endings. Honestly I would've been upset if they didn't retain the original Gaiden ones. I know they're kind of weird, but I like that.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

3 hours ago, Thane said:

I've already bought the game on my Japanese 3DS and can't wait to play it. Just what more do I have to do in order to be allowed to be critical of this game? Do I need to make a thread about how much I'm looking forward to weapon skills and how I hope that's something that returns in future Fire Emblem games?

You need to own 3 famicom copies and 1 reproduction to play on your NES, like I do

Relax, friend - in my original post I said that I didn't mean to pick on you - and in fact, agreed with a lot of the things you said. I only used you as the example because you were the TC, not because I have some vendetta.

And why not? If we spent more time uplifting what we liked about these games, maybe the community would be happier as a whole. It's not saying we can't critique stuff, but we definitely shouldn't only critique stuff.

[Thane]

25 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

You need to own 3 famicom copies and 1 reproduction to play on your NES, like I do

Relax, friend - in my original post I said that I didn't mean to pick on you - and in fact, agreed with a lot of the things you said. I only used you as the example because you were the TC, not because I have some vendetta.

And why not? If we spent more time uplifting what we liked about these games, maybe the community would be happier as a whole. It's not saying we can't critique stuff, but we definitely shouldn't only critique stuff.

Believe you me, I think part of this fandom has forgotten how to have fun and are looking for an excuse to complain about everything. However, I've already gushed about a bunch of features. I'm surprised people are so eager to chalk this up to whining rather than just a regular point of discussion.

Quote

It sucks, it's sad, but it's the reality for her. She's not going to suddenly drop her feelings she held onto for years just because Alm doesn't love her, she needs time and support to heal. It was inevitable she'd be unhappy like that. 

The reason why I personally dislike Faye's ending is because she's a new character and they don't seem to be doing anything interesting with her. What's more, her ending doesn't seem to indicate any growth or change in mentality - sure, she loves Alm, but it's still a childhood crush. That she doesn't get over it and do more with her life in spite of everything she and her friends have accomplished strikes me as odd. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind her going back to Ram to enjoy a peaceful life, just that the rest of her life is colored by unrequited love, which makes her seem like the same character as when the game started.

With any luck, Memories and Town Conversations will make her stand out more, because her support with Alm sure didn't.

2 hours ago, Tryhard said:

i dunno, it's just a little strange to see you complain about gaiden maps not being changed (to name a thing), when they're not any worse than awakening's (granted, this is not an accomplishment, and i'm not saying there isn't issues because of that because there are), yet I've never seen you complain about that map design (to my knowledge)

I assume this is directed at me. Quick question though, how much gameplay do you see me discuss in general? If you don't see me complaining about Awakening's map design it's because I for the most part discuss writing and only bring up Awakening's poor map design in a sweeping fashion. If you want me to complain about a specific map, I can say Walhart's first map in particular can go fuck itself with a cactus, because that shit's not fun. Satisfied?

Edited April 5, 2017 by Thane

[Party Moth]

3 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Honestly, I completely disagree with a lot of the notions behind peoples disappointment towards Faye's ending.

Not to be rude, but I'm not sure what people expected. Faye, similar to Celica, was Alm's childhood friend and developed feelings for him at a very young age. Unlike Celica however, she continued to grow up into adolescence with him, forging various memories and that whole time, continuing to keep holding onto those feelings. Unlike Catria and Cordelia, Faye has much more reason to be in love with Alm. If she can't get over her unrequited feelings towards Alm, which let's be real here, is a very common occurrence, even in real life, of course she'll remain unhappy as her life progresses. The only way she'll be happy is if she develops feelings for someone else or move on from her current feelings, but honestly without any social support or psychological help, she wouldn't be able to make that step. 

It sucks, it's sad, but it's the reality for her. She's not going to suddenly drop her feelings she held onto for years just because Alm doesn't love her, she needs time and support to heal. It was inevitable she'd be unhappy like that. 

Frankly, it makes much more sense than Gray becoming an alcoholic because his best friend died since he still has a chick he loves and close friendships in Cliff/Alm/Faye at least.

It's less that her ending is disappointing and more that her entire character thus far seems to solely revolve around Alm.  That, quite frankly, is unrealistic (or rather indicative of a one-note character starting and going nowhere). Considering that she's a brand new character not anchored to prior dialogue or endings, perhaps it's not completely unreasonable to expect an inch of development rather than her stubbornly clinging to one single trait and refusing to develop?

Granted, we haven't seen everything about her yet regarding dialogue. But the deck is not stacked in her favor based on everything we've seen so far in promotional materials and in-game content. I will accept her stubborn refusal to change if she can bother to exert any traits or thoughts outside of "Alm and I should get together and start a family in the village."

[TheWill]

1 minute ago, Party Moth said:

It's less that her ending is disappointing and more that her entire character thus far seems to solely revolve around Alm.  That, quite frankly, is unrealistic (or rather indicative of a one-note character starting and going nowhere). Considering that she's a brand new character not anchored to prior dialogue or endings, perhaps it's not completely unreasonable to expect an inch of development rather than her stubbornly clinging to one single trait and refusing to develop?

Granted, we haven't seen everything about her yet regarding dialogue. But the deck is not stacked in her favor based on everything we've seen so far in promotional materials and in-game content. I will accept her stubborn refusal to change if she can bother to exert any traits or thoughts outside of "Alm and I should get together and start a family in the village."

That's a common occurrence in Fire Emblem in general, but I digress. You're right, it's bad her entire character revolves around Alm. But with that noted, it's completely understandable that her ending is depressing because Alm is the only thing she wanted. 

[B.Leu]

So, I just read the Alm/Faye supports. It was pretty pointless imo. Very, very pointless.

Edited April 5, 2017 by B.Leu

[unosarta]

I know y'all are talking a lot about the Faye endings (and it seems like that's been the focus of a lot of the discussion on the endings) but I just wanted to push back on some of the other ending commentary I've seen. A few posts in this thread and on the reddit have said that the endings are by and large the same as the ones in Gaiden, but there are a few that have been starkly changed, and I want to know how people feel about them.

In particular, Sonia's ending now has a completely different feel than her Gaiden ending. I really liked Sonia's backstory and character design, and it felt like a huge shock when her ending implied pretty strongly that she was turned into a witch like her sisters.

Or the way that Delthea's ending and deadClive!Tatiana's ending involved them getting married. Some of the new content has been really cool and added depth to my understanding of the character, but for those two it felt like such a weird move to make them get married. I really loved Delthea's ending in Gaiden, especially after all of being brainwashed like that, it felt like such an interesting and novel character arc.

Tatiana's endings (and I imagine her supports, I've been avoiding reading them) say really clearly that Zeke was her greatest/only love. Maybe it's another Faye where she reluctantly got married, but I felt really conflicted about this turn for her character. Maybe this is just another layer to the tragedy of her arc without Zeke, but it felt strange.

I'm interested in what you thought about these endings in particular.

[property of nuvelle]

4 hours ago, unosarta said:

 Delthea's ending and deadClive!Tatiana's ending involved them getting married. 

A mistake?

[RJWalker]

I'm glad that the endings are set in stone and that there are canon pairs.

[Thunderstar]

22 hours ago, X-Naut said:

There's already a thread on r/fireemblem discussing Cliff's ending.

The head theory there is he went to Archanea and got with Linde (because Aura male + Aura female and Linde's FE12 endings says she moved on) but personally I like to think he went to a different continent and took in an orphan as his son. If he went to Archanea I doubt his history would be so vague, and then there's the question of where the child's mother went. The world may never know.

Interesting though honestly if he got a kid with Linde, the ending would have probably mentionned him returning with his wife (except if she died of course) and I guess that if the continent is supposed to be Archanea we would have probably gotten more information as well.

21 hours ago, ZoeTrent said:

I think she still has supports with 2 other characters at least. Not to mention there are still base convos and memory fragments or w/e.

I hope these other supports and convos do her justice.

[Tryhard]

11 hours ago, Thane said:

I assume this is directed at me. Quick question though, how much gameplay do you see me discuss in general? If you don't see me complaining about Awakening's map design it's because I for the most part discuss writing and only bring up Awakening's poor map design in a sweeping fashion. If you want me to complain about a specific map, I can say Walhart's first map in particular can go fuck itself with a cactus, because that shit's not fun. Satisfied?

It might be that you don't talk about gameplay very much, but that's what you've mentioned the most in terms of Gaiden (that you don't want them to reuse the same maps). Just Awakening maps generally suffer the same issues Gaiden maps have - open, bland maps with little differentiation that can resort to tile spam and simple map design at best. The difference being is that Awakening had a chance to "cover" this up with the fact that aesthetics can be good in some maps. Validar's map is a square room with a floor that looks kinda cool with enemies sprawled about. The chapter after that is just a tile spam forest.

If you wanna criticise Gaiden's map design, that's fine and not really a unpopular thing to do, but if you acknowledge Awakening's map design is bad but don't really say it much then I'm not sure why you harp on about Echoes not changing the maps (except the aesthetics mostly, from what I've played).

[Thane]

15 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

I hope these other supports and convos do her justice.

My thoughts on Faye's support with Silque:

Spoiler

Dreadful. Silque wants to talk about her since Alm's group has so few women, and Faye's like "I don't need more female friends, I've got Alm." for both C and B, and then she's like "well, I got kind of lonely, and now I want to be your friend" in A. 

 

2 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

It might be that you don't talk about gameplay very much, but that's what you've mentioned the most in terms of Gaiden (that you don't want them to reuse the same maps). 

Dude, I joined Serenes in 2015 in the Fates hype, long after all of Awakening's flaws had been hammered into the hivemind part of the fandom. Now Gaiden is getting a remake and they seem to be keeping one of the most controversial aspects of it and you want me to go "yeah but Awakening's maps were terrible too"? It's not like the entire fandom isn't in agreement on that one.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Thane

[Tryhard]

Just now, Thane said:

Dude, I joined Serenes in 2015 in the Fates hype, long after all of Awakening's flaws had been hammered into the hivemind part of the fandom. Now Gaiden is getting a remake and they seem to be keeping one of the most controversial aspects of it and you want me to go "yeah but Awakening's maps were terrible too"? It's not like the entire fandom isn't in agreement on that one.

To be fair, everyone has continuously said how shit Gaiden's maps are for forever too.

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

To be fair, everyone has continuously said how shit Gaiden's maps are for forever too.

I'm well aware, I'm just struggling to understand what you want from me here. "How dare he complain about Gaiden's maps without also mentioning that Awakening's suck", is that what you're thinking? 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Thane

[Tryhard]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

I'm well aware, I'm just struggling to understand what you want from me here. "How dare he complain about Gaiden's maps without also mentioning that Awakening's suck", is that what you're thinking? 

I'm saying there's no point dwelling on it, considering I've seen you bring it up a decent amount. They've decided to just reuse the old maps and that's that.

Recent Fire Emblem map design has been very poor in general to begin with, aside from Conquest I've heard, so it's unfortunately not even a unique criticism. If you think I'm saying you can't criticise the maps in Gaiden, I'm not, nobody is really going to defend them.

[Thane]

Just now, Tryhard said:

I'm saying there's no point dwelling on it, considering I've seen you bring it up a decent amount. They've decided to just reuse the old maps and that's that.

And I'm not the one who brought it up. I made this thread to discuss the endings, but people started talking about how much I whine about stuff instead.

[FoliFF]

Where are people reading these ending and supports? :o

edit: derp I just found it on reddit, nvm folks

Edited April 5, 2017 by FoliFF

[unosarta]

3 hours ago, KongDude88 said:

A mistake?

Sorry that sentence was unclear. Delthea gets married to a random dude in the updated ending, and also separately Tatiana gets married to a random dude if Zeke dies. I felt really weird hearing about Tatiana's marriage because it felt strange for her character, and was wondering how others felt.

Edited April 6, 2017 by unosarta

[property of nuvelle]

1 hour ago, unosarta said:

Sorry that sentence was unclear. Delthea gets married to a random dude in the updated ending, and also separately Tatiana gets married to a random dude if Zeke dies. I felt really weird hearing about Tatiana's marriage because it felt strange for her character, and was wondering how others felt.

It bothers me so much that Tatiana gets married to someone else.

Edited April 6, 2017 by KongDude88

[dap005]

15 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Honestly, I completely disagree with a lot of the notions behind peoples disappointment towards Faye's ending.

Not to be rude, but I'm not sure what people expected. Faye, similar to Celica, was Alm's childhood friend and developed feelings for him at a very young age. Unlike Celica however, she continued to grow up into adolescence with him, forging various memories and that whole time, continuing to keep holding onto those feelings. Unlike Catria and Cordelia, Faye has much more reason to be in love with Alm. If she can't get over her unrequited feelings towards Alm, which let's be real here, is a very common occurrence, even in real life, of course she'll remain unhappy as her life progresses. The only way she'll be happy is if she develops feelings for someone else or move on from her current feelings, but honestly without any social support or psychological help, she wouldn't be able to make that step. 

It sucks, it's sad, but it's the reality for her. She's not going to suddenly drop her feelings she held onto for years just because Alm doesn't love her, she needs time and support to heal. It was inevitable she'd be unhappy like that. 

Frankly, it makes much more sense than Gray becoming an alcoholic because his best friend died since he still has a chick he loves and close friendships in Cliff/Alm/Faye at least.

I think the main worry is that Faye's whole character just becomes 'She likes Alm' where her entire personality and dialogue revolves around her crush bubble.

But then again we haven't seen ever line Faye speaks yet so I'm still hoping that we get more from this new character.

I mean even Catria has quite a bit more to her character than just crush on Marth (she has a personality descriptor for one, which Faye lacks in her intro on the official site). Like her base convos in fe12 made me like the character due to her admirations for her sisters whilst being so harsh on herself for being the middle kid without anything special (which she learns otherwise ofc). 

Is just that we know very little of Faye beside this one trope of hers right now, hence the negativity. I still think is too early to say though since apparently there's a lot more dialogue outside supports for most characters. And unrequited love can be a great part of a character arc, if it's not the sole arc.

[dap005]

And I actually found Delthea's original ending a nice surprise, since usually media games or not assume marriage = default happiness therefore must occur. 

Ah well her new ending is kinda sweet too esp the reminiscing with Luthier part. 

[B.Leu]

3 hours ago, KongDude88 said:

It bothers me so much that Tatiana gets married to someone else.

Took me a while for the info to get into my brain.
I rather liked the original "Zeke die" ending when I read it. 'She cut her hair in sadness'.

Kinda weird said like that.