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When did Fates plot stop working for you?


Quiver
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Many of these sentiments are shared by others but here's my input.

Birthright: Boring but servicable. There is not really an adequate sense of an actual war going on and each chapter is moving from one set piece to another. Xander and the other villains are dickheads but it's not overly offensive.

Conquest: Conquest has many points where it stops working. The first is the route split where Corrin's reasons for choosing Nohr are never followed up on (nor does anyone care that he's a dragon). The early chapters are mostly alright although Garon's cartoonish villainy is off-puttting. Cheve marked where the story should have started getting good but instead makes our hero a spineleas coward. It's not until chapter 15 however that Corrin becomes a full on villain protagonist, made worse because the story still paints him as a messiah. 

Revevelation: Revelation was always boring but the worst parts are Azura's exposition dump at the beginning (which retroactively made Conquest and Birthright worse) and when the dead parents parade starts. What a contrived way to cram the latter half of the game with "well done son" moments. 

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i don't think it ever did work for me, but the moment I thought "Yeah, this is stupid" was when the sword flew into corn's hand

it looked silly and reinforced that idea of corn being the "chosen one" or whatever, which is just boring and dumb as shit

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Chapter 6. It seemed like forced drama to me, there flat out isn't enough time to know either side properly. No wonder no one ever listens to Corrin, such as Corrin's siblings, they barely interacted with each other before the infamous decision point. Like many things in this game, we aren't given any reason to care for anything, and all three paths start out this way and stay as such.

Why not have a game where you decide which side of the war you want to be on, at the end of the game? (or at the end of the length of a typical FE game, since charging money for the two other paths at that point would be even worse that what we got) Time to build up both sides, the characters, the world and then something irreversible happens that forces you to choose?

 

So yeah, I guess like a few others in this thread, the story of Fates never really worked for me from the start.

 

Edit: I think Heirs of Fates takes the crown for worst story in Fates. The only thing I liked was the different End of All song, and maybe one map I don't recall seeing before?

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14 hours ago, Quiver said:

On the topic of marriage...

Maybe it's just me, but I am having a really hard time getting supports done in Conquest. And the reason I say that's a problem is because I feel like I'm "supposed" to be using the supports to fill in the characterisation (and yes, set up marriages)... but the lack of being able to grind means I'm not really supporting very many characters. My Kamui is probably going to end up with Arthur, Silas or Leo for the sole reason of "I've happened to amass some supports with these guys". Which I don't think is the way it should have gone.

(I fully acknowledge this as my problem rather than the games though; I basically played things wrong. Still, locking characterisation behind a support system and limiting the ability to support doesn't sound like a good idea in this case, since Fates dilemma should be a character based one. It's a character-based story, where you have to work to get any sort of characterisation from the characters involved, which feels... misguided.)

Still better than the stand beside each other for 500 turns system they had going on in the GBA games.

12 hours ago, Augestein said:

For me. I felt like this: 

Revelations: this was the first path I did, so I didn't really know what to expect. However, I'd say the story started to get a bit boring around the time that you get to Valla. The plot curse is a silly premise, but at least it continues to roll with it. Even if it IS stupid. 

Conquest: It was kinda weak all around, but what killed it for me was Ch. 15 where you realize that you're in ... Valla. 

Birthright: is a bad joke that goes on for hours. It's bland, boring, and still manages to have things that still reach the levels of stupid that are in Revelations and Conquest. Which honestly makes it worse in my opinion. It's safe AND bad. 

 

 

What possessed you to play Revelations first? The game even tells you not to play it until you've played at least one of the other routes.

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It stopped for me as soon as the ending started for Conquest.

There was a lot of missed stuff to show up. All nice things mentioned to Garon back then, how good he was back then unlike now...all of that was never revealed. Instead, some Zombie is stuck in his body and when you kill it...nothing happens.

There's very little reason to even kill of Takumi as final boss even. The boss himself isn't that hard but rather the map is.

 

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

What possessed you to play Revelations first? The game even tells you not to play it until you've played at least one of the other routes.

Because I was curious about that route. And in the end of the day, there's nothing that's somehow better for not playing it first. I had the special edition so I didn't need to download it or anything. 

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Still better than the stand beside each other for 500 turns system they had going on in the GBA games.

Not having played the GBA games, I don't feel able to comment on that. :P:

That being said... actually, a bigger problem with the support system in Fates and how it delivers the plot: having played through Birthright, I never got any information regarding Corrin's origins.

I've read general plot spoilers, so I'm already aware that Corrin isn't related to the rest of the Hoshidans by blood; and even if I didn't know that, the fact you could S-rank support with Sakura and Hinoka should have suggested there was something up.

But still. Because I didn't go for the S-ranking with one of Corrin's sisters, I never got the letter from Ryoma saying "Be tee dubs, we aren't blood relations." Maybe that ISN'T a big plot detail; it certainly sounds like a loophole to enable players to S-rank with family members without worrying about whether Kana is going to come out with six toes.

Still, it seems like a major thing to leave out. By the end of my Birthright run, my Corrin still didn't know that he wasn't related to the Hoshidans, and I can't help but think that that is a MAJOR missing plot point. The game encourages the incest pairing, to provide the player with information refuting the pairing as incest. Again, it seems... like a counter-intuitive way to go about providing character info. 

(I mean, you can say it doesn't matter that they arne't blood relatives, because the rest of the Hoshidans had already accepted Corrin as family by the time they were kidnapped... except the Nohrian nobles felt the exact same way. Given certain scenes in the Conquest route, I'm left wondering whether Ryoma is supposed to come across as a hypocrite.)

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It stopped clicking after Chapter 15 of Conquest for me.  I could deal with a par story in BR, as elitists already bashed into my head the idea that the Awakening plot was terrible (I don't think it's terrible, but it isn't Citizen Kane either) and good plot isn't necessarily what draws me to the series anyway...  But the plot device crap was so damn stupid, it ruined my immersion.

It all comes down to Garon, Xander, and the Invisible Kingdom.  Garon could've been a decent villain, and the early part of CQ had hints of that... but no, he, like every other villain in this series, has to suffer from "Bad Villianitus".  He's made to be so ridiculously villainous that no one should have even a modicum of sympathy for him.  Which is why it's ridiculous that Xander will still carry out his orders.  And all of this stupidity is because of the existence of the third route.  If we didn't have it, it would've possibly given Garon some breathing room to develop into an okay villain.  Or he'd possibly just be another Gangrel, with Iago being a Validar/Aversa.

19 hours ago, unique said:

i don't think it ever did work for me, but the moment I thought "Yeah, this is stupid" was when the sword flew into corn's hand

it looked silly and reinforced that idea of corn being the "chosen one" or whatever, which is just boring and dumb as shit

Corrin better watch out for anyone who has the high ground, particularly in Chapter 21 of Birthright.

Spoiler

The image of Corrin - with his legs chopped off - bursting into flames near a pit of lava is a little satisfactory, though...  I definitely don't hate our resident Gary Stu.

Also, that scene with the sword flying into Corn-bread's hand is pretty stupid.  I feel that it's much more satisfying to either get the legendary weapon towards mid-to-end game, or to have to go through trials to actually get the legendary weapon.  Or in the case of Awakening, you have to go through a trial to power it up.  At the very least, give me a pedestal or something to pull it out of, like with Lyn's Mani Katti (which isn't even her final ultimate weapon, but I got more of a sense of accomplishment from her pulling that out of its sheath after fighting a bunch of bandits for it than I did with the Yato just flying at Corrin after an odd and confusing battle).

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4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

 And all of this stupidity is because of the existence of the third route.  If we didn't have it, it would've possibly given Garon some breathing room to develop into an okay villain.  Or he'd possibly just be another Gangrel, with Iago being a Validar/Aversa.

I think for your metaphor to work, Hans needs to be Aversa...Which is an oddly appropriate but weird thought.

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Chapter 5. The moment where Corrin becomes a dragon, and no one even questions what that means to Corrin's parentage and blood relation. Followed by Corrin being magically chosen by the god-slaying sword of destiny that immediately implies that any fight against Corrin will ultimately be a failure (and Hoshido knows this).

Followed by the shoehorning in of My Castle.

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1 hour ago, Party Moth said:

Chapter 5. The moment where Corrin becomes a dragon, and no one even questions what that means to Corrin's parentage and blood relation. Followed by Corrin being magically chosen by the god-slaying sword of destiny that immediately implies that any fight against Corrin will ultimately be a failure (and Hoshido knows this).

Followed by the shoehorning in of My Castle.

All the Hosidoian and Nohrian royals are decedents of dragons. It's even the explanation as to why Garon transforms in Birthright. I don't see why people would question is parentage when everyone believes him to be Sumaragi's son. The better question is why Ryoma didn't front up with that information and instead tried to paint Corrin as a blood relation when really they're just some kid who stayed with them for a few months as a baby. Of course that inconsistency only appears later in the game.

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31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

All the Hosidoian and Nohrian royals are decedents of dragons. It's even the explanation as to why Garon transforms in Birthright. I don't see why people would question is parentage when everyone believes him to be Sumaragi's son. The better question is why Ryoma didn't front up with that information and instead tried to paint Corrin as a blood relation when really they're just some kid who stayed with them for a few months as a baby. Of course that inconsistency only appears later in the game.

Considering the ability to transform into a dragon is normally locked to manaketes and (usually) their immediate offspring based on prior titles, the plot stopped working for me there as it attempts to force itself into the continuity of the rest of the series. I suppose I'd chalk it up to my own discrepancy and expectactions rather than the plot's, but the thread title is asking when the plot stopped working for you. That's where it stopped for me.

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16 hours ago, Quiver said:

(I mean, you can say it doesn't matter that they arne't blood relatives, because the rest of the Hoshidans had already accepted Corrin as family by the time they were kidnapped... except the Nohrian nobles felt the exact same way. Given certain scenes in the Conquest route, I'm left wondering whether Ryoma is supposed to come across as a hypocrite.)

I don't think so. Ryoma apologizes to Fem Corrin in their S support for not telling her about their lack of blood relation but it's treated as "I'm sorry I didn't mention this trivia about your origins" instead of "I'm sorry I lied about us being blood-related which is literally the only way we could have been more family to you than your Nohrian siblings".  Corrin, likewise, doesn't acknowledge that there was a deception and instead ponders who their real father is. Granted, Corrin had plenty of reason to side with Hoshido (reason #1, Hoshido isn't trying to murder them) but Ryoma's hypocrisy is never addressed. The closest the game ever gets to portraying Ryoma in a negative light is him denying medicine to Elise.

Verdict: IS wanted to let you S rank the Hoshidans and didn't consider the fact that this completely undermines the premise of Birthright.

9 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

It all comes down to Garon, Xander, and the Invisible Kingdom.  Garon could've been a decent villain, and the early part of CQ had hints of that... but no, he, like every other villain in this series, has to suffer from "Bad Villianitus".  He's made to be so ridiculously villainous that no one should have even a modicum of sympathy for him.  Which is why it's ridiculous that Xander will still carry out his orders.  And all of this stupidity is because of the existence of the third route.  If we didn't have it, it would've possibly given Garon some breathing room to develop into an okay villain.  Or he'd possibly just be another Gangrel, with Iago being a Validar/Aversa.

Garon's villainy and the other character's reaction to it don't make any sense. If you side with Hoshido, Corrin immediately denounces Garon for the psychopath that he is but if you chose Nohr, Corrin doesn't seem convinced that Garon needs to be removed until chapter 15 and even then, it's only because he's a slime monster and not because he orders the death of a lot of innocent people. You really have to wonder what the writers hoped to accomplish with making Garon so obviously evil. All it really serves is to make Xander and Corrin look like idiots. Like, my goodness, in C15 Corrin is against even "shaming" Garon despite being present to two massacres and had multiple attempts on his own life.

Had Garon been somewhat reasonable or kind to his children to contrast his brutality to everyone else, there would have been reasonable conflict in opposing him.

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42 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I don't think so. Ryoma apologizes to Fem Corrin in their S support for not telling her about their lack of blood relation but it's treated as "I'm sorry I didn't mention this trivia about your origins" instead of "I'm sorry I lied about us being blood-related which is literally the only way we could have been more family to you than your Nohrian siblings".  Corrin, likewise, doesn't acknowledge that there was a deception and instead ponders who their real father is. Granted, Corrin had plenty of reason to side with Hoshido (reason #1, Hoshido isn't trying to murder them) but Ryoma's hypocrisy is never addressed. The closest the game ever gets to portraying Ryoma in a negative light is him denying medicine to Elise.

Verdict: IS wanted to let you S rank the Hoshidans and didn't consider the fact that this completely undermines the premise of Birthright.

Garon's villainy and the other character's reaction to it don't make any sense. If you side with Hoshido, Corrin immediately denounces Garon for the psychopath that he is but if you chose Nohr, Corrin doesn't seem convinced that Garon needs to be removed until chapter 15 and even then, it's only because he's a slime monster and not because he orders the death of a lot of innocent people. You really have to wonder what the writers hoped to accomplish with making Garon so obviously evil. All it really serves is to make Xander and Corrin look like idiots. Like, my goodness, in C15 Corrin is against even "shaming" Garon despite being present to two massacres and had multiple attempts on his own life.

Had Garon been somewhat reasonable or kind to his children to contrast his brutality to everyone else, there would have been reasonable conflict in opposing him.

The moment with Elise, and the conflict in Izumo, was kind of what soured me on Rymona a little bit, to be honest.

I mean... backing up; again, I will apologise and explain away things in media that I like. "Maybe Ryoma is being a hypocrite, but he's a human being, with complex thoughts, feelings, emotions and internal conflicts. So we're seeing a different side of his character because we're approaching him from a different angle." I'd actually consider that good storytelling, and a good use of the alternate route premises. It's just that the concept isn't written strongly enough for me to think it's intentional.

I guess... what this topic is, for me, is "When does the suspension of disbelief break". When do things get to the point where the audience isn't prepared to trust that the author has a greater plan at work, or that what seems like contradictions are just facets of a larger, more complicated world. What is the moment when the plot isn't just strained, it crosses over into "I don't care about any of these people anymore" territory.

(Which I think is different enough from the various rewrite and plot holes threads that it's a line of thought worth pursuing. I do think there are lots of little design decisions that impact the story, but that's a whole other problem)

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NOT A SINGLE SOLDIER WAS KILLED!

Sure it showed Nohrian superiority over Hoshidans as they afford mercy to their opponents without suffering casualties...but it's Conquest man I thought I was getting to morally questionable deeds, :sob: 

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3 hours ago, Quiver said:

I mean... backing up; again, I will apologise and explain away things in media that I like. "Maybe Ryoma is being a hypocrite, but he's a human being, with complex thoughts, feelings, emotions and internal conflicts. So we're seeing a different side of his character because we're approaching him from a different angle." I'd actually consider that good storytelling, and a good use of the alternate route premises. It's just that the concept isn't written strongly enough for me to think it's intentional.

I could definitely see that as a reasonable human flaw... if it were intentional. Corrin was his sister/brother for a few years and he grew attached. He knows that the Nohrian siblings spent more time with Corrin but he feels that that opportunity belonged to him, so Corrin is still his sibling first. But the truth of Corrin's heritage and Ryoma's hypocrisy isn't a serious talking point, it's just a "technically not incest" disclaimer tied with "GO BUY REVELATION AND HIDDEN TRUTHS NOW" advertisement. Another example would be C18 where Ryoma insists that if the Nohrian siblings were in similar dire straits he'd do the "honorable" thing and help them. But he doesn't do that when Elise requires medicine. This would be a good way to show that Ryoma is kind of bullshitting on the honorable thing, but since the game doesn't make any attempt to acknowledge this, I'm left to think the writers hadn't thought about it themselves. 

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I think at the very least they should have made Mikoto be Sakura's mother. Then Corrin would have had something resembling a blood tie to Hoshido and Mikoto would have had some reason to be a respected queen of the place. The way the current timeline is Mikoto must have been married to Sumragi for like a week before Garon offed him (and using similar logic Arete should have been Elise's mother. Not really needed as much in terms of plot hole patching but it would have been much easier to make the case since the two can't S Rank).

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50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think at the very least they should have made Mikoto be Sakura's mother. Then Corrin would have had something resembling a blood tie to Hoshido and Mikoto would have had some reason to be a respected queen of the place. The way the current timeline is Mikoto must have been married to Sumragi for like a week before Garon offed him (and using similar logic Arete should have been Elise's mother. Not really needed as much in terms of plot hole patching but it would have been much easier to make the case since the two can't S Rank).

Isn't Takumi implied to be a momma's boy too? Though when I took her out with him, no special dialogue (he did love Pursuer though- by the way, why didn't they hack Mikoto an S Yumi so she could use the thing when they hacked Iago a Staff rank on CQ?). Make him one of her children too.

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The plot stopped working for me the moment they tried making Mikoto's death seem truly tragic when we only spent a single chapter aware of her existence before dying in the chapter that follows. To pour salt on the wound Mikoto is stated to have known her death was coming by Yukimura and yet there's nothing shown of her trying to bond with Corrin or her step-children before her demise on top of not informing Corrin of his true heritage but instead has the time to explain their feeling for one of the hoshido siblings.

valla curse is dumb

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think at the very least they should have made Mikoto be Sakura's mother. Then Corrin would have had something resembling a blood tie to Hoshido and Mikoto would have had some reason to be a respected queen of the place. The way the current timeline is Mikoto must have been married to Sumragi for like a week before Garon offed him (and using similar logic Arete should have been Elise's mother. Not really needed as much in terms of plot hole patching but it would have been much easier to make the case since the two can't S Rank).

With how Takumi is explicitly younger than Corrin, who was brought to Hoshido as a baby, he would need to be Mikoto's kid too. Unless Sumeragi had two spouses for a time. (which I wouldn't put past him, since this is Feudal Japan we are talking about). Also why would Elise need to be Arete's child just for that? While a blood connection to Hoshido would have certainly helped, Nohr doesn't need any of that. It would just require further elaboration and plotting to work out. That would be trying to fix "(fake)blood versus loyalty" by making it "blood versus blood".

 

As for the main topic: Conquest never really worked for me, but I still had some slight hope for a servicable story before chapter 15 ruined it all. You don't set up all these potential allies for Corrin against Garon, tell them how to do good behind daddy's eyes, and then just have them sit on their hands while letting Garon massacre the Hoshidans.

Birthright is mostly stable if bland. One thing that got me though was Ryouma, who up to this point was a walking enyclopedia on Nohr, was shocked that Nohrians were actually poor and starving.. Really now?

Revelations was flimsy to begin with, but after reaching Valla it fell apart entirely. The Anthony arc that went nowhere just sealed the deal.

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3 hours ago, Nanima said:

With how Takumi is explicitly younger than Corrin, who was brought to Hoshido as a baby, he would need to be Mikoto's kid too. Unless Sumeragi had two spouses for a time. (which I wouldn't put past him, since this is Feudal Japan we are talking about). Also why would Elise need to be Arete's child just for that? While a blood connection to Hoshido would have certainly helped, Nohr doesn't need any of that. It would just require further elaboration and plotting to work out. That would be trying to fix "(fake)blood versus loyalty" by making it "blood versus blood".

 

As for the main topic: Conquest never really worked for me, but I still had some slight hope for a servicable story before chapter 15 ruined it all. You don't set up all these potential allies for Corrin against Garon, tell them how to do good behind daddy's eyes, and then just have them sit on their hands while letting Garon massacre the Hoshidans.

Birthright is mostly stable if bland. One thing that got me though was Ryouma, who up to this point was a walking enyclopedia on Nohr, was shocked that Nohrians were actually poor and starving.. Really now?

Revelations was flimsy to begin with, but after reaching Valla it fell apart entirely. The Anthony arc that went nowhere just sealed the deal.

Well like I said Elise doesn't need to be Arete's child to fill any particular plot holes, but making the connections more solid is easier in that case since the two don't have the potential to S support. Ultimately I'd prefer it if all the Hoshiodon's were related to Corrin by blood but I'd take small victories where I can get them in asking for just the youngest to be swapped. But of course S supporting rules the day. Though in a sort of twisted way I'd kind of respect IS more if they did follow through and allow S supporting blood siblings in one or two cases. It's hardly much worse than the Nohr siblings. Blood relation is only one of several reasons incest is taboo.

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well like I said Elise doesn't need to be Arete's child to fill any particular plot holes, but making the connections more solid is easier in that case since the two don't have the potential to S support. Ultimately I'd prefer it if all the Hoshiodon's were related to Corrin by blood but I'd take small victories where I can get them in asking for just the youngest to be swapped. But of course S supporting rules the day. Though in a sort of twisted way I'd kind of respect IS more if they did follow through and allow S supporting blood siblings in one or two cases. It's hardly much worse than the Nohr siblings. Blood relation is only one of several reasons incest is taboo.

ust because a connection is easy to make doesn't mean the game or it's story would benefit from it in any way. It's just a random tacked on fact that does nothing but damage the central theme of the game in the exact same way we have already been complaining about. Also, I really don't understand what you mean by "no-avaiable S-support" Elise and Corrin can very much S-support in game. If you want to take that out, the explanation that she is too young/their adopted sibling is perfectly valid and requires no follow up. Just because something could make sense, doesn't mean it should be added if there are zero benefits.

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5 hours ago, Nanima said:

ust because a connection is easy to make doesn't mean the game or it's story would benefit from it in any way. It's just a random tacked on fact that does nothing but damage the central theme of the game in the exact same way we have already been complaining about. Also, I really don't understand what you mean by "no-avaiable S-support" Elise and Corrin can very much S-support in game. If you want to take that out, the explanation that she is too young/their adopted sibling is perfectly valid and requires no follow up. Just because something could make sense, doesn't mean it should be added if there are zero benefits.

I mean no available S support between Azura and Elise. And while yes, normally tacking on a connection isn't really beneficial, but that wouldn't be the case here since Azura is presented from the very start as a member of the Nohrian royal family and the game basically lies to you about her true origins (and before it's pointed out, I'm aware that when she meets Elise in Conquest she hints at the fact that its not quite what it seems but she still hides the fact and let's Elise believe she's a blood relation for basically no reason other than to service the plot of Revelations). Making Arete and Garon actually have a kid together solidifies Azura's connection to Nohr. A connection that she serves racial prejudice for having when in the current canon it's basically a place she spent two years in as a toddler and nothing else.

Not to mention having the younger children actually be the children of the second spouses would result in the two families being cousins with each other which would only solidify the themes of unity, partnership and family that Revelations pushes so heavily.

Additionally, additionally, in general I just enjoy when characters parent's are extant in a work. Garon and Sumaragi basically spawned all their children asexually. Like sure we have the name of the two queens but basically nothing else. I'd prefer a parent being an actual character that you meet and played an actual role in the plot (as parents tend to do in children's lives) rather than basically being "Dead parent cliche. Insert character name here." (like Arete is still dead in either case but at least she did something in the plot by telling Azura about valla, which is infinitely more than we can say about any of Garon's other concubines). Of course that might just be me.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I mean no available S support between Azura and Elise. And while yes, normally tacking on a connection isn't really beneficial, but that wouldn't be the case here since Azura is presented from the very start as a member of the Nohrian royal family and the game basically lies to you about her true origins (and before it's pointed out, I'm aware that when she meets Elise in Conquest she hints at the fact that its not quite what it seems but she still hides the fact and let's Elise believe she's a blood relation for basically no reason other than to service the plot of Revelations). Making Arete and Garon actually have a kid together solidifies Azura's connection to Nohr. A connection that she serves racial prejudice for having when in the current canon it's basically a place she spent two years in as a toddler and nothing else.

Not to mention having the younger children actually be the children of the second spouses would result in the two families being cousins with each other which would only solidify the themes of unity, partnership and family that Revelations pushes so heavily.

Additionally, additionally, in general I just enjoy when characters parent's are extant in a work. Garon and Sumaragi basically spawned all their children asexually. Like sure we have the name of the two queens but basically nothing else. I'd prefer a parent being an actual character that you meet and played an actual role in the plot (as parents tend to do in children's lives) rather than basically being "Dead parent cliche. Insert character name here." (like Arete is still dead in either case but at least she did something in the plot by telling Azura about valla, which is infinitely more than we can say about any of Garon's other concubines). Of course that might just be me.

That's not a valid argument at all, since there is no S-support between any two females besides F!Corrin and Rhajat. And even if there was, the fact that Elise is too young and looks at Azura as a sister (regardless of blood) is enough to explain it. With that argument every female in the game could be related to each other. Furthermore, Elise asumption that Azura is her blood sister, is coming from her supposed relation to Garon not a common link with Arete. Elise is very much aware that her mother was a concubine, which is explained outside of Revelations, so the argument that it only existed for that is void. Also Azura likely spend more than a few years in Nohr, since she has a lot of clear memories of the bullying that happened to her. Azura isn't really in need of a "true" connection to Nohr, since it's a heavy point for her that she feels isolated in every place she has ever been in. Furthermore, Elise being Arete's child would necessitate a rewrite of the exact circumstances of Azura's life in Nohr, since she lost her mother during it which then led to an increase in bullying. Arete's death was also the time Garon went bonkers, yet it's very important for the relationship of Elise and Azura that the former was only born after Azura's kidnapping, so they never got to meet each other. You'd basically have to invent entirely new circumstances of the story of both characters just to make that tiny thing work.

Again, Nohr and Conquest run on the theme of "loyalty" and how you don't have to share blood to be family. You still haven't addressed this.

While it's understandable that you would feel this way, Elise actually has more development with her canon mom than the rest of her siblings. The fact that she was present when she died and realized that she never loved her is something important to her character and her siblings' desire to shield her from the cruelties of court. Changing all that should not leave us with the exact same Elise. You would have to do a lot of rewriting for something like this. It's nice to have headcanons, but you need to be aware of their implications when trying to incorporate them into the actual story.

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The prologue chapters messed it up for me. They were really unnecessary to me. It seemed like they were trying to garner sympathy for all the siblings and Mikoto in the shortest time possible, and it just didn't work because I had already made my route choice when I first bought the game. They should have skipped the prologue chapters, started the game from the "game split" (as you already chose a route when you bought the game) and then explored the siblings and parents therein - which would require a full rewrite of the game from there. 

Edited by saisymbolic
elaboration
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