Origins of Mila and Duma (unmarked Endgame spoilers)

[Emperor Hardin]

Why is Duma a cyclops with tentancles, and Mila, the Earth goddess?

[TheWerdna]

Question. If it is the same Falchion, is there any explanation how it got from Archanea to Valentia, considering that Marth's game was only like, a year before this one?

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, TheWerdna said:

Question. If it is the same Falchion, is there any explanation how it got from Archanea to Valentia, considering that Marth's game was only like, a year before this one?

It's not. Naga just has enough fangs to spare two or a few or more.

[boarbaque]

2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

 

Personally I think this was all planned somewhat. Even Tellius has some subtle hints with the Branded. I mean, if you think about it, the Branded are really just pumped up versions of the humans with transfused dragon blood. Which makes sense if Tellius is near the start of the timeline.

Wait, is that a theory? After Ashera fell, a new god had to take her place? So a dragon from Goldoa gained enough power to become one?

[boarbaque]

5 minutes ago, TheWerdna said:

Question. If it is the same Falchion, is there any explanation how it got from Archanea to Valentia, considering that Marth's game was only like, a year before this one?

Naga has many fangs.

[Emperor Hardin]

I still have a hard time, the Dark God would be a Divine Dragon.

He's got tentacles and a single eye that shoots lasers.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[TheWerdna]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I still have a hard time, the Dark God would be a Divine Dragon.

He's got tentacles and a single eye that shoots lasers.

You know, now I can't unsee Duma as being the Divine Dragon equivalent of emo teenage edge lord. I bet he thought the tentacles and laser eye made him more badass.

[Emerson]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I still have a hard time, the Dark God would be a Divine Dragon.

He's got tentacles and a single eye that shoots lasers.

That's assuming he's still a slime monster/dragon, which the portrait seems to indicate otherwise.

Also, didn't Duma look like that because he wasn't fully revived? That's the impression I was under.

Granted, it seems he still attacks with Tentacles, which brings up even MORE questions...

Edited April 6, 2017 by Almerson

[boarbaque]

7 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I still have a hard time, the Dark God would be a Divine Dragon.

He's got tentacles and a single eye that shoots lasers.

I've never felt Doma was evil. I felt like Judah was using his power for his own purposes. He was the one who gave Rudolph the Falchion to seal Mila, and he  wanted Alm to slay him so both of them could finally rest. Perhaps he realized that both his and Mila's ways were wrong.

[Emperor Hardin]

10 minutes ago, TheWerdna said:

You know, now I can't unsee Duma as being the Divine Dragon equivalent of emo teenage edge lord. I bet he thought the tentacles and laser eye made him more badass.

Yeah, his followers are pretty edgy.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[TheWerdna]

1 minute ago, boarbaque said:

I've never felt Doma was evil. I felt like Judah was using his power for his own purposes. He was the one who gave Rudolph the Falchion to seal Mila, and he  wanted Alm to slay him so both of them could finally rest. Perhaps he realized that both his and Mila's ways were wrong.

Again, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am right now that this entire time Duma has just been the world's biggest edgelord.

[Emperor Hardin]

6 minutes ago, Almerson said:

That's assuming he's still a slime monster/dragon, which the portrait seems to indicate otherwise.

Also, didn't Duma look like that because he wasn't fully revived? That's the impression I was under.

His new portrait looks pretty monstrous as well.

5 minutes ago, boarbaque said:

I've never felt Doma was evil. I felt like Judah was using his power for his own purposes. He was the one who gave Rudolph the Falchion to seal Mila, and he  wanted Alm to slay him so both of them could finally rest. Perhaps he realized that both his and Mila's ways were wrong.

He isn't evil, but he's ruthless and creepy. In fairness, Mila was just as bad, leading to the Zofians committing actions like hoarding excess food rather then let the starving Rigelians have it.

And yes, in the original, Duma came up with the plan to seal Mila, and presumably himself.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[escotanner]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

His new portrait looks pretty monstrous as well.

He isn't evil, but he's ruthless and creepy. In fairness, Mila was just as bad, leading to the Zofians committing actions like hoarding excess food rather then let the starving Rigelians have it.

Like Hoshido but more dickish.

[Extrasolar]

Whoa, this info is actually really good to know and interesting.

And holy shit, it's finally explained exactly where the second Falchion came from, and why Alm is capable of using it? Excellent. Seems like all dragon-forged weapons pass down through the bloodline, from Marth's Falchion, to Alm's Falchion, to the Holy Weapons of Jugdral.

So how many named dragons (ignoring all the nameless, degenerated Earth Dragons) have gotten pissed at/argued with/fought against Naga thus far? Three, with Loptyr, Duma, and Medeus as it seems. Seems like Naga's preference for humans made her pretty unpopular in a lot of respects. Good thing she's godlike and all that.

I do like that this conflict has a lot of gray. The siblings didn't hate each other, they just disagreed, and both of them were being obstinate and proud about how much humans "needed" their guidance to prosper. Both of them had their failings and good points, and I can definitely appreciate that. At the end of the day, seems like the story's about humans seizing their own destiny, being able to determine their own path through life. I really like that aspect of it.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Extrasolar

[B.Leu]

I vaguely remember people saying things like "It won't change the original" or 'it won't change the experience" or something of the sort. :p
Then now, the game precisely recton things, fancy that.
I'm not really salty though, I'm pretty amused. And in the end, I can't wait to have the thing in my hands.

Some good some bad. I like how they're not at each others throats. They just disagree. That's something that is lost in fiction.
I don't like how now it's both siblings, instead of Duma alone.I liked the original idea better.
Like, the guy is an edgelord and he come to understand that and decide to do something about it. How badass is that ?
Mila now became modern Zelda. Mgrrugru.
 

8 hours ago, TheWerdna said:

You know, now I can't unsee Duma as being the Divine Dragon equivalent of emo teenage edge lord. I bet he thought the tentacles and laser eye made him more badass.

To be fair, he was right. Dragonbreathing is pretty boring and you just look like a casual after a while; :p

I call major bullshit about Duma being Divine Dragon, and a retcon smash from IS part. This thing, that was a dracozombie, a draco lich, a dark god. Hell, call him a lolicon if you want, but that was never a divine dragon.

Edited April 7, 2017 by B.Leu

[RedEyedDrake]

5 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

So how many named dragons (ignoring all the nameless, degenerated Earth Dragons) have gotten pissed at/argued with/fought against Naga thus far? Three, with Loptyr, Duma, and Medeus as it seems.

There is little reason to believe that Medeus was ever in direct conflict with the original Naga himself/herself. And there is certainly no evidence to imply anything of the sort. I also don't think that there is any evidence to even imply that Naga ever even met Loptyr himself back in Archanea. But please do correct me (by bringing up some evidence) if I'm actually wrong about this.

Edited April 7, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Emperor Hardin]

6 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Whoa, this info is actually really good to know and interesting.

And holy shit, it's finally explained exactly where the second Falchion came from, and why Alm is capable of using it? Excellent. Seems like all dragon-forged weapons pass down through the bloodline, from Marth's Falchion, to Alm's Falchion, to the Holy Weapons of Jugdral.

So how many named dragons (ignoring all the nameless, degenerated Earth Dragons) have gotten pissed at/argued with/fought against Naga thus far? Three, with Loptyr, Duma, and Medeus as it seems. Seems like Naga's preference for humans made her pretty unpopular in a lot of respects. Good thing she's godlike and all that.

I do like that this conflict has a lot of gray. The siblings didn't hate each other, they just disagreed, and both of them were being obstinate and proud about how much humans "needed" their guidance to prosper. Both of them had their failings and good points, and I can definitely appreciate that. At the end of the day, seems like the story's about humans seizing their own destiny, being able to determine their own path through life. I really like that aspect of it.

Majority of Dragons got pissed at Naga and ignored becoming manaketes.

DS remake also shows many are sealed in the Dragon's altar.

Medeus was Naga's ally for a long time, hence him guarding the altar.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Mysterique Sign]

3 hours ago, RedEyedDrake said:

There is little reason to believe that Medeus was ever in direct conflict with the original Naga himself/herself. And there is certainly no evidence to imply anything of the sort. I also don't think that there is any evidence to even imply that Naga ever even met Loptyr himself back in Archanea. But please do correct me (by bringing up some evidence) if I'm actually wrong about this.

Loptyr was pat of the Earth Dragon/Divine Dragon war. After he got sealed away some dude from Jugdral (I forget his name) went to Archanea and somehow made contact with Loptyr, they made a pact: Loptyr would use his body while the guy (and his descendants) would inherit Loptyr's power. Then eventually the 12  Crusaders blood bonded with 12 dragons (including Naga) to fight against him. So even if Naga and Loptyr never fought directly against each other they'd t least know of each other.

And Medeus was the young prince of the Earth Dragons during the war and agreed with Naga's idea of becoming Manakete's, but then he went and started that war with humanity requiring Naga to intervene

16 hours ago, boarbaque said:

Wait, is that a theory? After Ashera fell, a new god had to take her place? So a dragon from Goldoa gained enough power to become one?

Ashera doesn't so much fall as she eventually reunites with Yune to become Ashunera again

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Mysterique Sign said:

Loptyr was pat of the Earth Dragon/Divine Dragon war. After he got sealed away some dude from Jugdral (I forget his name) went to Archanea and somehow made contact with Loptyr, they made a pact: Loptyr would use his body while the guy (and his descendants) would inherit Loptyr's power. Then eventually the 12  Crusaders blood bonded with 12 dragons (including Naga) to fight against him. So even if Naga and Loptyr never fought directly against each other they'd t least know of each other.

And Medeus was the young prince of the Earth Dragons during the war and agreed with Naga's idea of becoming Manakete's, but then he went and started that war with humanity requiring Naga to intervene

I am pretty sure that Loptyr was never sealed away, but rather abandoned the war after realizing the war was already lost for him, so when he met bishop Galle, he figured out a way to terrorize humans using the blood pact through Galle. And he did so for a long time. In fact, Naga only learned of Loptyr's pact later on and went with other dragons to stop Loptyr. Now, this brings up the idea that maybe Duma and Mila actually participated in the Miracle of Darna, as Mila might have been the Divine Dragon that created the Blaggi bloodline, since the Valkyrie Staff brought the dead back to life, and Mila is hailed for doing the same thing. 

Also, Naga never intervened against Medeus. Naga was already dead, and had likely reincarnated as Nagi. However, with New Mystery of the Emblem, its confirmed that Nagi never appeared in Shadow Dragon canonically, so New Mystery was her first canon appearance. 

Furthermore, the two Falchions still bug me, but it would make the most sense, as its the only way to explain why Alm got himself a Falchion despite it not being that long since Shadow Dragon that Echoes takes place, so Rudolf somehow going to Archanea to get the Falchion, give it to Alm, only for afterwards for Gharnef to steal it to make very little sense.

[escotanner]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am pretty sure that Loptyr was never sealed away, but rather abandoned the war after realizing the war was already lost for him, so when he met bishop Galle, he figured out a way to terrorize humans using the blood pact through Galle. And he did so for a long time. In fact, Naga only learned of Loptyr's pact later on and went with other dragons to stop Loptyr. Now, this brings up the idea that maybe Duma and Mila actually participated in the Miracle of Darna, as Mila might have been the Divine Dragon that created the Blaggi bloodline, since the Valkyrie Staff brought the dead back to life, and Mila is hailed for doing the same thing. 

If that's true, I wonder what bloodline Duma was a part of...Hezul's maybe?

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, Naga never intervened against Medeus. Naga was already dead, and had likely reincarnated as Nagi. However, with New Mystery of the Emblem, its confirmed that Nagi never appeared in Shadow Dragon canonically, so New Mystery was her first canon appearance. 

If Naga was dead, how did Naga show up 2000 years very much alive in Awakening? I'm confused as to this point. I don't think there's an "original Naga" and current Naga... I'll admit I'm not entirely sure where Nagi fits into all of this.

7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Majority of Dragons got pissed at Naga and ignored becoming manaketes.

DS remake also shows many are sealed in the Dragon's altar.

I said named dragons. Not nameless, faceless masses.

[RedEyedDrake]

1 hour ago, escotanner said:

If that's true, I wonder what bloodline Duma was a part of...Hezul's maybe?

The timeline from SoV's official site makes it clear that the accord between Duma and Mila was forged some 3000 years before present day. Duma and Mila have never been to Jugral, certainly not during the era of the Twelve Crusaders.

Edited April 7, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[VincentASM]

5 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

If Naga was dead, how did Naga show up 2000 years very much alive in Awakening? I'm confused as to this point. I don't think there's an "original Naga" and current Naga... I'll admit I'm not entirely sure where Nagi fits into all of this.

I said named dragons. Not nameless, faceless masses.

We were led to believe that Naga perished. In reality, she was sleeping in an Outrealm as Nagi.

Or maybe she did die. After all, Naga in Awakening seems to exist only in spirit form.

[Magical Glace]

7 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

If Naga was dead, how did Naga show up 2000 years very much alive in Awakening?

I was under the impression the Naga we saw in Awakening was a ghost, actually.  Tiki didn't glow like that, at any rate.

[RedEyedDrake]

Awakening's Naga looks exactly like Nagi, with only very minor changes in clothes to account for different art styles. Awakening's Naga is obviously Nagi after she stabilized enough to no longer need to be locked in that coffin of hers.