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Raccoon844

Skip Fates or buy?

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I'm going to be working my first ever job soon and the first paycheck i get will be getting a fire emblem game. But here's the problem: Concidering Fates has some problems around the plot department and Echoes is around the corner i'm wondering if i should actually bother buying Fates or not. To be specfic: I'm not too sure if i want to buy Conquest/Revelations or if i should just skip it. What do you guys think?

Edited by Raccoon844

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Buy Conquest/Birthright and skip Revelation. Even with its rubbish story, Fates has a lot to offer in gameplay, presentation and music. I can't comment on Echoes' quality but it is a remake and from what I've heard, quite faithful to the original, warts and all. Fates is a modern game that has improved a lot of mechanics that the series has been developing over time.

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6 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Buy Conquest/Birthright and skip Revelation. Even with its rubbish story, Fates has a lot to offer in gameplay, presentation and music. I can't comment on Echoes' quality but it is a remake and from what I've heard, quite faithful to the original, warts and all. Fates is a modern game that has improved a lot of mechanics that the series has been developing over time.

Skip revelation? How so? Does it have any real problems compared to the other 2 routes besides the different story?

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Pros of Revelation include flexible team building (you get both weapon shops and nearly all characters) and additional supports between Hoshidan and Nohrian characters. 

The cons are extremely tedius map design and terrible unit balance. Also, a number of maps are reused from Birthright and Conquest.

If you are already borderline on buying or not buying Fates, Revelation is a poor investment. It was rated the worst Fire Emblem in a recent poll on the General board. Buying Birthright and Conquest on the other hand is a good investment. $60 for effectively two games, and it lets you use the entire cast (barring one character) between them.

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6 minutes ago, Raccoon844 said:

I see. Well, i guess i'll just get Conquest and then think if i want to get birthright or bother with revelations. Thanks!

conquest is worth it, just ignore the story

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I suggest both Conquest and Birthright first.  If you really like the game, then I'd consider Revelation.

The upside to Revelation is that it gives you much more characters/items to work with, which opens up a lot of possibilities.  If you like the character system in Birthright/Conquest, you'll love the freedom of Revelation.

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Geez, am I the only on this planet that was able to enjoy all 3 routes? I swear

 

Anyways if incredibly dumb plots are your poison then I recommend avoiding Conquest unless you have the ability outweigh positive gameplay over absurd plotlines. Pretty much why I enjoy all 3 routes.

If this is your 1st FE game then maybe should check out Sacred Stones or Awakening 1st. From what I can tell Echoes seems to be much different than your standard FE game.

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If you've never played any FE, then you should probably start with FE7, Sacred Stones, or Awakening. If you can only get your hands on Fates, then do Birthright (despite it's boring story IMO) first to learn the basics of FE gameplay. If you've played FE before, you should probably be fine (ish) starting with Conquest (which actually has a story that's mostly tolerable IMO) for its superior gameplay. Either way, afterwards if you are still interested then try the other. Don't bother buying Revelations unless you beat and at least somewhat enjoyed both routes, since its story (what there is of it anyway) sort of expects you to know both of the other routes.

Like NekoKnight said, starting with Echoes probably wouldn't be the best idea because of the age difference in mechanics. Even if it is updated graphics and some stuff like that, it will likely be a drastically different experience from the more modern games.

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6 minutes ago, joshcja said:

If CQ is not the best fire emblem game in terms of gameplay it's a close second.

BR and Rev can be safely ignored.

I wouldn't put it above Radiant Dawn or 6, and wouldn't even consider it above Thracia.  Ever.

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7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Buy Conquest/Birthright and skip Revelation. Even with its rubbish story, Fates has a lot to offer in gameplay, presentation and music. I can't comment on Echoes' quality but it is a remake and from what I've heard, quite faithful to the original, warts and all. Fates is a modern game that has improved a lot of mechanics that the series has been developing over time.

THIS!

I mean, I appeal what Nintendo/IS were trying to do to the plot...but even Awakening's plot is better than this. The gameplay however is where the overall games really shine.

Personally, I'd say just stick to Conquest alone.

 

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7 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Geez, am I the only on this planet that was able to enjoy all 3 routes? I swear

 

If you start a sentence with "am I the only one", chances are, you're not.

The forum has a general concensus of Fates' bad points, but that doesn't mean there are not people that enjoy all three routes. Enough to buy two physical special editions in both English and Japanese.

Personally, I'm one of the few who enjoy both Gameplay and plot of Revelation, despite my gripes with it and general understanding of why some people think it's garbage.

As for the OP... what do you value more?

Plot? Gameplay?

Birthright is like Awakening. Straightforward.

Lunatic has a decent challenge. Not as good as Conquest tailored to veterans... but it has enough to keep most non-fe hardcore interested.

Conquest plot is... lol. But it had its moments for me. Amazing gameplay.

Revelation is a slog for most people. I only recommend it if you want it as an extra map pack, because it has A LOT of gimmick gameplay designed for long turn counts. Without spoiling the actual chapter, there is a PAINFUL stealth chapter. I mean it's optional, but man was the objective stupid. It is essentially "you can't beat this on your first try ever." Same with what they expect you to do according to dialogue.

Or if you just like Fates enough to get it.

Edited by shadowofchaos

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2 hours ago, Sayyyaka said:

I wouldn't put it above Radiant Dawn or 6, and wouldn't even consider it above Thracia.  Ever.

It's definitely better than 6, partly because of objective variety and partly because a handful of maps from 6 are boring even when you don't consider the pure seize aspect. Of course that's subjective since some people like pure seize a lot. I can't comment on Radiant Dawn but Thracia did so many things wrong that I would say Conquest is better than that, too. 

Anyway, to stay on topic: My first Fire Emblem was Awakening, but I couldn't beat it at the time because I found it to be really tedious. I loved the characters and the gameplay mechanics, but the actual map design was really bad to me. 

When I heard that Conquest would offer a "unique challenge" (or however they called it in the marketing) I was stoked to try it, and even after having gone back and played several different games it remains my favorite in the series. It is really hard though - though I think that difficulty makes map completion very rewarding. It feels great to play (all 3 routes do, really, but Conquest does it the best) and although the story is a little lackluster you can skip the cutscenes ;)

Anyway, I'd recommend Birthright if you're a newcomer to the series and then picking up Conquest on the eshop later if you like it. If you have played other games and have an idea of what the core mechanics are like, get Conquest and maybe Birthright on the eshop if you like it (Revelation if you love it). 

I can't speak about Echoes but from what I have heard the story is really good while the map design is...archaic. If you care more about story then I recommend picking that up over Fates altogether.

Edited by YouSquiddinMe

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I'd recommend Conquest and Birthright. Birthright is really simple and easy, but that's not a bad thing. If you feel like you need a break from Conquest, you have a way of blowing steam in the same cart! Sometimes an easy game is nice to have. 

Conquest is probably the best gameplay the series can offer. It's difficult and challenging without being stupendously unfair, or without being mean like FE12 and putting a gun to your head over every tiny decision. The whole tag team stuff also helps the game feel unique to the rest of the series, and is what sets it above others in gameplay (imo). I actually find myself having a hard time wanting to go back to older games, and I'm a series fanatic. 

Revelations takes a uhh...Special mindset. 

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I think that Conquest offers an amazing gameplay experience. I originally got Birthright first, which was fun, but when I started playing Conquest I fell in love with the gameplay and I play it almost all the time. Birthright is better than Revelations imo because Rev has very SLOW and gimmicky gameplay... I've only played that route twice. 1st on Hard and 2nd on Lunatic to get the badge on my card but I don't know if I'll play Rev again anytime soon. 

... I don't have any experience with Gaiden and I have been avoiding spoilers like the plague, so sadly I don't have much of an opinion to give you in regards to Echoes. 

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I would recommend just one of the Fates games at a time rather than marathoning all three like I did. I was super burnt out by the time Revelation released. You'll only spend 20 on the other games, sure, but I'd pony up the 40 for Echoes instead to play after Conquest, or whichever Fates you start with.

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I would even skip birthright tbh and just play conquest.

The gameplay and map design on the nhorian path is literally the only thing in Fates that they polished up to an acceptable level of quality before the release.

And if you ignore everything else, its great. if everything else in Fates was polished up to the quality of conquest's map design and gameplay, it would have been hands-down the best game in the history of the franchise.

But they very obviously cut every corner with the story and with the other paths--the plot reads like an afterthought, cobbled together with less effort than was spent on nude models for the bathhouses and the changing rooms + tit-jiggling animations for orochi and kagero.

Birthright is a hollow shell of a gameplay experience that really can't stand on its own and had no business being released on a separate cartridge from Conquest; splitting Fates into 2 games and making the unpurchased route dlc was a pure money-grab to make players spend more money for the full fates experience .

And revelations just straight-up feels like they ran out of time + released an unfinished product. (and still had the gall to charge $17.00 for)

Don't reward I.S. for money-grubbing and releasing unfinished games.

...Enjoy the diamond-in-the-rough that is the Conquest Campaign.

...Pass on the rest of the turd sandwich.

...Don't put money into the DLC.

MAYBE put a few dollars into the DLC maps that let you access outrealm classes and extra gold, when you do your Lunatic run. Particularly the one that lets you get the Witch's Mark and lets you reclass your females to Witch--access to the Warp skill greatly opens up your options for tackling some of the tougher late-game chapters, and Nyx gets a HUGE boost in viability from being able to reclass between chapter 9 and chapter 10. 

 

my two-cents.  hope that helped.

 

 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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37 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Birthright is a hollow shell of a gameplay experience that really can't stand on its own and had no business being released on a separate cartridge from Conquest; splitting Fates into 2 games and making the unpurchased route dlc was a pure money-grab to make players spend more money for the full fates experience .

And revelations just straight-up feels like they ran out of time + released an unfinished product. (and still had the gall to charge $17.00 for)

Don't reward I.S. for money-grubbing and releasing unfinished games.

...Enjoy the diamond-in-the-rough that is the Conquest Campaign.

...Pass on the rest of the turd sandwich.

...Don't put money into the DLC.

MAYBE put a few dollars into the DLC maps that let you access outrealm classes and extra gold, when you do your Lunatic run. Particularly the one that lets you get the Witch's Mark and lets you reclass your females to Witch--access to the Warp skill greatly opens up your options for tackling some of the tougher late-game chapters, and Nyx gets a HUGE boost in viability from being able to reclass between chapter 9 and chapter 10. 

 

my two-cents.  hope that helped.

 

 

 

Just to play devil's advocate: Birthright had better map design and unit placement than awakening Lunatic ever did.

There is value in it for people that aren't FE veterans or those fe veterans that value things other than Conquest's challenge.

My fiancé is one of the latter. Having played older games, but also doesn't automatically like Conquest jut because of the gameplay. This is assuming that the OP is in the same mindset just because of the consensus that Conquest has the best gameplay and devaluing anything other than the typical FE veteran challenge.

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I don't know if you made any purchases yet, but I'm gonna throw out some recommendations anyway.

First of all, don't get Echoes just 'cuz everyone's all abuzz about it.  That happens pretty much all the time with a new game, and soon enough people will find things to gripe about.  In fact, people already complain about the map design since its all taken from Gaiden, which has quite a few meme-worthy map designs (there's a map that's literally just a huge field with a few trees, a bridge, and a couple of forts).  And I know that I have complaints about one of the new characters.  I mean, I'll still get it, but I have a fairly disposable income.  I recommend familiarizing yourself with Gaiden, because if you hate that game, you probably won't like Echoes.  Also, wait until a bunch of reviews come out, or watch some gameplay of it online.

Fates-wise, I think that as far as quantity of content is concerned, $20 per path is a steal.  You get a cast that's roughly the size of Awakening's with either BR or CQ, a campaign of the same length with each, and you'll get a level of difficulty that's at least on-par with Awakening, yet all paths are only about half the cost of Awakening at its original pricing.  As for quality of content...

Conquest is generally considered one of the most difficult FE campaigns too, so you don't have to worry about getting bored by easy gameplay.  Birthright can also be fun, with its new classes and weapon-types.  People say that Birthright has dull characters, but there are a few who are really good and some on this site really like some of those "dull" characters, so I'd say just see for yourself.  I personally think that every character has their upsides, even ones like Camilla or Peri, which I put on blast sometimes.

As much as I trash Revelation for its flaws, I can say I don't regret buying it.  It might not have the best map design, character balancing (you get a level 10 unpromoted unit in a map swarming with level 1-7 promoted units, and no, he's not an Est), or story, but it's enjoyable enough on the first playthrough, and it lets you combine the might of all the characters (that anyone cares about) from the other two paths (plus an extra dude that no one really gives a damn enough to use), so it's great for grinding supports or maybe some awfully committed PMUs.  I think ultimately, if you like both CQ and BR a lot, you probably will enjoy Revelation as well.

31 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Just to play devil's advocate: Birthright had better map design and unit placement than awakening Lunatic ever did.

There is value in it for people that aren't FE veterans or those fe veterans that value things other than Conquest's challenge.

My fiancé is one of the latter. Having played older games, but also doesn't automatically like Conquest jut because of the gameplay. This is assuming that the OP is in the same mindset just because of the consensus that Conquest has the best gameplay and devaluing anything other than the typical FE veteran challenge.

I'll say I still find value in Birthright and Revelation that I don't find in Conquest.  I'm not necessarily a vet, but I'm also not a newbie; I've beaten the last four games in the series (the DS remakes and the 3DS games), and have at the very least tried every other FE aside from Thracia 776.  And as such, I believe there actually is more appeal to FE than its gameplay, in spite of what vets say.  The stories aren't anything too special, but they're enjoyable enough.  And the support system... the character interactions...  That's something that really drew me into FE as opposed to various other strategy games out there.

Not to say CQ doesn't have good characters.  It definitely does.  But I think I ultimately prefer the Hoshidan royals to the Nohrian royals.  Also, a couple of my absolute favorite characters are in BR, so that might make me more biased.  To that end, BR inches out CQ by a little bit.

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2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I don't know if you made any purchases yet, but I'm gonna throw out some recommendations anyway.

First of all, don't get Echoes just 'cuz everyone's all abuzz about it.  That happens pretty much all the time with a new game, and soon enough people will find things to gripe about.  In fact, people already complain about the map design since its all taken from Gaiden, which has quite a few meme-worthy map designs (there's a map that's literally just a huge field with a few trees, a bridge, and a couple of forts).  And I know that I have complaints about one of the new characters.  I mean, I'll still get it, but I have a fairly disposable income.  I recommend familiarizing yourself with Gaiden, because if you hate that game, you probably won't like Echoes.  Also, wait until a bunch of reviews come out, or watch some gameplay of it online.

Fates-wise, I think that as far as quantity of content is concerned, $20 per path is a steal.  You get a cast that's roughly the size of Awakening's with either BR or CQ, a campaign of the same length with each, and you'll get a level of difficulty that's at least on-par with Awakening, yet all paths are only about half the cost of Awakening at its original pricing.  As for quality of content...

Conquest is generally considered one of the most difficult FE campaigns too, so you don't have to worry about getting bored by easy gameplay.  Birthright can also be fun, with its new classes and weapon-types.  People say that Birthright has dull characters, but there are a few who are really good and some on this site really like some of those "dull" characters, so I'd say just see for yourself.  I personally think that every character has their upsides, even ones like Camilla or Peri, which I put on blast sometimes.

As much as I trash Revelation for its flaws, I can say I don't regret buying it.  It might not have the best map design, character balancing (you get a level 10 unpromoted unit in a map swarming with level 1-7 promoted units, and no, he's not an Est), or story, but it's enjoyable enough on the first playthrough, and it lets you combine the might of all the characters (that anyone cares about) from the other two paths (plus an extra dude that no one really gives a damn enough to use), so it's great for grinding supports or maybe some awfully committed PMUs.  I think ultimately, if you like both CQ and BR a lot, you probably will enjoy Revelation as well.

I'll say I still find value in Birthright and Revelation that I don't find in Conquest.  I'm not necessarily a vet, but I'm also not a newbie; I've beaten the last four games in the series (the DS remakes and the 3DS games), and have at the very least tried every other FE aside from Thracia 776.  And as such, I believe there actually is more appeal to FE than its gameplay, in spite of what vets say.  The stories aren't anything too special, but they're enjoyable enough.  And the support system... the character interactions...  That's something that really drew me into FE as opposed to various other strategy games out there.

Not to say CQ doesn't have good characters.  It definitely does.  But I think I ultimately prefer the Hoshidan royals to the Nohrian royals.  Also, a couple of my absolute favorite characters are in BR, so that might make me more biased.  To that end, BR inches out CQ by a little bit.

'value in birthright' i can buy, if you enjoy the cast of characters and the lack of difficulty doesn't bother you. The maps are bland, but for the most part they're not terribly designed. A few are are even quite good (i.e. the one where you're fighting Camilla in the undercity. The one where you kill Hans). You compare it to Tellius and Elibe and the sagas that actually did proper world building + narration and dialogue, and the 'story' is still absolutely indefensible. But i get that if you personally like the Hoshidan royals and the retainers and you've got your own head-canon to supplement the main story, its still a fun game.

Revelations is irredeemable at every level.

They spend all of fates building up to this Hidden Kingdom arc, where absolutely nothing happens. 

The map design is atrocious. You can make your own head-canon and ignore a bad story--you can't ignore bad gameplay.

...A map where you fight rooms of 3 units at a time in psuedo-fog-of-war and try to avoid random paths to nowhere--that have absolutely no penalty for taking them ,accept that they send you back to the empty room you just cleared. kk...nice romhack gimmick...can we play the game now?

 ...A map where everything is covered in breakable ice, and you just spend the entire time digging out whatever enemies you want to fight on your way to the boss. Literally the least fun i have ever had playing drillerman fire emblem.

...A chapter where you get movable terrain to make your own survive-the-rush choke-points, but none of the enemy units rush, so you either waste your time with the gimmick or ignore it entirely and play a very generic pull-and-clear.

...A chapter where you spend the entire time riding around on moving elevators to get from one mob of enemies to the next.

...An lategame chapter where the entire map is literally just one big empty room with enemies in the middle, and treasure chests off to the side. (the gunter one. theres no way that was a finished map.)

Theres  no way they play-tested any of this; Its so egregiously bad you can't even brush it of as well maybe it just slipped past beta. There was no beta. They threw it together and rolled it out as-is to meet the release date--either that or they really just didn't give a fuck about anything other then elise's giggles and camilla's big bouncing titties, because thats what sells games now and thats how they're going to make their money.

I have to believe it was resource mismanagement and time-crunch. Because if that shit was intentional and the Revelations we got was the game they actually wanted to put out--Holy Shit--thats bad.      

...its almost worth the $17 just to experience how laughably off the rails it went, and why people hate it so much and. But for real. Just watch mangs and ghast LP it, and save your money.

 

 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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5 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Revelations is irredeemable at every level.

They spend all of fates building up to this Hidden Kingdom arc, where absolutely nothing happens. 

The map design is atrocious. You can make your own head-canon and ignore a bad story--you can't ignore bad gameplay.

...A map where you fight rooms of 3 units at a time in psuedo-fog-of-war and try to avoid random paths to nowhere--that have absolutely no penalty for taking them ,accept that they send you back to the empty room you just cleared. kk...nice romhack gimmick...can we play the game now?

 ...A map where everything is covered in breakable ice, and you just spend the entire time digging out whatever enemies you want to fight on your way to the boss. Literally the least fun i have ever had playing drillerman fire emblem.

...A chapter where you get movable terrain to make your own survive-the-rush choke-points, but none of the enemy units rush, so you either waste your time with the gimmick or ignore it entirely and play a very generic pull-and-clear.

...A chapter where you spend the entire time riding around on moving elevators to get from one mob of enemies to the next.

...An lategame chapter where the entire map is literally just one big empty room with enemies in the middle, and treasure chests off to the side. (the gunter one. theres no way that was a finished map.)

Theres  no way they play-tested any of this; Its so egregiously bad you can't even brush it of as well maybe it just slipped past beta. There was no beta. They threw it together and rolled it out as-is to meet the release date--either that or they really just didn't give a fuck about anything other then elise's giggles and camilla's big bouncing tits, because thats what sells games now and thats how they're going to make their money.

I have to believe it was resource mismanagement and time-crunch. Because if that shit was intentional and the Revelations we got was the game they actually wanted to put out--Holy Shit--thats bad.      

...its almost worth the $17 just to experience why people hate it so much and. But for real. Just watch mangs and ghast LP it, and save your money.

 

 

 

The whole turtle movement thing actually appealed to me.

My playstyle in Radiant Dawn was just that. Even going up to a hundred turns for certain maps.

So it's irredeemable for you. And we acknowledge why it's bad. I personally call it horrible.

But the statement isn't all encompassing. And the money I gave it for an extra map pack is something I personally say is worth it.

You need to chill and stop treating like people are wasting their money for something they will judge the value of for themselves.

This is a recommendation thread. Not "call anyone who finds value in the trash called Revelations as wasting their money".

Edited by shadowofchaos

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4 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

The whole turtle movement thing actually appealed to me.

 

for the life of me I can't understand why, but w/e, to each his own. Even with that though, there's no excuse for shit like:

these-dragon-veins-will-freeze-the-water

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3 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

for the life of me I can't understand why, but w/e, to each his own. Even with that though, there's no excuse for shit like:

these-dragon-veins-will-freeze-the-water

Again, it's bad.

But people can find appeal in those gimmicks. You need to just accept that.

There are people who enjoyed the stupidity that is Awakening's Lunatic+ as well.

Edited by shadowofchaos

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