Why do you like or dislike Fire emblem Thracia 776?

[Tuvy]

I was curious to see some opinions of fire emblem 5. I never liked it due to the fact that some characters were almost unusable, and for me, the game is just boring. No character except for the main characters had any characterization, the map design was bad, (in my opinion) and the game was really unbalanced. I liked the crusader scrolls, and this game gets some credit for adding fog of war, but that's all I liked.

So why do you like or dislike this game?

Edited April 11, 2017 by Tuvy

[Apollo]

1 hour ago, Tuvy said:

 I never liked it due to the fact that some characters were almost unusable,

But Thracia has one of the lowest numbers of bad characters in the series. There's Tanya, Ronan, Eda, Shanam, Miranda and the Chapter 9 horseback units, but everyone else is at least usable. Even Dalsin, who's pretty bad for most of the game, is still really useful during the Manster escape. Oh, and I guess Saias is pretty bad too, if only because keeping him around means you can't get Ced.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Apollo

[Tuvy]

29 minutes ago, Apollo said:

But Thracia has one of the lowest numbers of bad characters in the series. There's Tanya, Ronan, Eda, Shanam, Miranda and the Chapter 9 horseback units, but everyone else is at least usable. Even Dalsin, who's pretty bad for most of the game, is still really useful during the Manster escape. Oh, and I guess Saias is pretty bad too, if only because keeping him around means you can't get Ced.

I was mostly talking about the chapter 9 horseback units who have some of my favorite designs in the series.

[Corrobin]

It added a lot of things that would become staples in the series. It was just unrefined. Binding Blade fixed a lot of what it added.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I still see FE5 as the "Revolution" in FE because it gave this series a new direction by introducing lots of interesting game mechanics like

• capturing
• fatigue
• new mission objectives (defend, escape...)
• scrolls which can fix stat issues
• flexible skill system by giving the allies obtained skills

 

However it went a bit too far in some cases.

• Fatigue is an interesting idea but needs improvement. It screws the player too easily. An other stat than HP should affect it.
• Adding warp tiles like in 24x is like the dumbest idea ever and only pisses off the player.
• Having hit of 1-99% is also a mechanic which mainly screws the player and not the opponent.

FE5 has tons of amazing ideas, and it's still a fantastic game for its time, but I'd really like to see a remake with some things fixed.
 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin

[LB44]

I actually believe that fe5 has one of the best map designs in the entire franchise, mainly because they have you try to play around the situations the army is placed in, rather than worrying too much about enemy stats. Take a look at ch 19 for instance. You could easily escape with everyone and trivialise the map, but going for the side objectives such as saving villages from the thieves and recruiting either Amalda or Conomore in the face of a large army throws a wrench into your approach to the map. When the game really challenges you to think about what you have to prioritise in achieving rather than worrying about the maxed out enemy unit in front of you is when I think of difficulty in Fire Emblem functioning at its best.

Most characters are usable too I find with the proper use of scrolls (Robert is rather underrated as being a horseback archer makes him useful both indoors and even moreso out). I even enjoyed the fatique mechanic. The game absolutely has some broken and annoying quirks about it though which does hamper it such as the random warp tiles that no one would have prior knowledge of (I also really don't like fog of war lol).

[Irysa]

The Manster arc is probably the best part of any Fire Emblem ever. Whilst many of Kaga's games strive to achieve mechanical and narrative fluidity, the harmony of how things work together in chapters 4 to 7 is really remarkable, you absoloutely feel the sense of desperation that Leif and his allies are experiencing as you scramble around trying to run for your lives. Trying to save others is pretty damn difficult too, and it's tempting to just ignore them, which is in line with how it actually would be.

Obviously the interconnectivity doesn't stop there but there's probably too many things to talk about in this sense and I've made too many high effort long posts lately that barely anyone reads so I cba

[General Horace]

I really like the story; it's why Leaf is my favourite Lord in the series.  He's not on a huge quest to save the world from a big evil dragon (not yet anyway....), the story is more on a personal level that is relateable to the lord, he's not just doing things because he's the main character, or the son of an important person, he's always doing something with a goal in mind and the contrast between the tacticians (August and Dorias) is some of my favourite writing in the series.   The whole narrative of Thracia is just amazing.

Gameplaywise, it's pretty hit and miss.  Capture is kinda cute but in most cases if you don't use a brave weapon or are capturing a weak enemy it's usually superfluous or frustrating.  Basic healing staves and other 1 range staves like warp/hammerne being able to miss is flat out bad game design.  PCC is a pretty neat concept to help differentiate units, and the Jugdral skill system is definately the best in the series.  Other wonky stuff like movement stars (especially on enemies, gotta love when Reinhart procs one of his FIVE MOVES STARS thanks Kaga more reason to abuse warp) and nukes one of your dudes on the EP when he's like halfway across the map, and they're just not good in practice on player units, although it's less offensive there.  Movement and Con growths are fun.  

[SimpleTactician]

After finishing it, I have a LOT to talk about it.

First of all, I love the story. Since it takes part as a midquel in the Jugdral series, it stays true for the key plot points (such as Lenster being under attack in Chapter 20 and Seliph casually passing by Manster after liberating Conote), but it has its own arcs. Namely, the Manster escape and the journey to Lenster from Tahra are my favourites. Early game, there's this false hope that Leaf might stand up to the Empire before violently being locked down and thrown into the prison of Manster with no indication (although that is a pretty BS part in the game itself). The only time the game gives Leaf any slack is at the very end, after liberating Manster; any other victory either was hampered (Tahra's defense) or immediately followed up by a tragic event (Dorias' fall). If I can comment Thracia 776's story for one thing, is that you truly feel like the underdog; that no victory is earned without sacrifices.

As for gameplay, well...

Capturing enemies is an neat mechanic, but it's frustrating early-game since you don't have a reliable way to capture outside of cavalry + brave weapons. However, I do like the concepts, and you get some VERY welcome equipment later on from capturing.
This is the first game in the series that introduced the rescue-drop mechanics, and I'm grateful for that. It makes it less frustrating when you place a unit in the range of a Bolting and you need to get 'em outta there.
Fatigue was more of a hindrance than a welcome mechanic; it never felt natural for me. Therefore, I always relied on Leaf taking siege weapons to the face since he's unaffected by fatigue and I always made sure to stock up on S drinks.
Speaking of siege tomes, the game went WAY overboard with tons of ballistas, usually accompanied by siege tomes such as Bolting... Blizzard is super evil, since it puts units to sleep.
Can we talk about the MVPs of the game? Geez, someone thought staves were underutilised in the previous games. If you don't play Thracia 776 with staves, you're probably playing Genealogy instead. You get what's essentially the Hammerne staff in the second/third chapter in the game, and ironically you'll use it to repair other staves later on, simply because of how disgustingly useful they are.
As for escape sequences, there's barely any indication that Leaf needs to exit last, or else everyone else gets captured. Other than that, I didn't mind it. 
And yes, there's tons of BS Thracia 776 throws at you, namely leadership stars and movement stars. But I think that's been plenty explained.

Overall, I find Thracia 776 a daunting task for seasoned Fire Emblem players. For newcomers, PLAY IT AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
While I find the game enjoyable, it has too many "f--- you" moments that prevent me from recommending it as a great game. Play Genealogy first, then come back to this.

[Tamanoir]

On ‎12‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 7:57 AM, Irysa said:

The Manster arc is probably the best part of any Fire Emblem ever. Whilst many of Kaga's games strive to achieve mechanical and narrative fluidity, the harmony of how things work together in chapters 4 to 7 is really remarkable, you absoloutely feel the sense of desperation that Leif and his allies are experiencing as you scramble around trying to run for your lives. Trying to save others is pretty damn difficult too, and it's tempting to just ignore them, which is in line with how it actually would be.

Obviously the interconnectivity doesn't stop there but there's probably too many things to talk about in this sense and I've made too many high effort long posts lately that barely anyone reads so I cba

Yeah, basically this.

Most mechanic in this game (I don't think anyone could defend missing staves) maks sense. Fatigue because you spent most of the game (especially the first half) fleeing against overpowered forces. Capture reinforce that desperate situation, but is also an act of kindness (since you don't have to kill the ennemies.)

This game isn't necessarily fun to play through (I remembr mostly the pain and the tears), but it was impactful. I played this game some years back, but I still remember it today with a great story (Leif is one of the most interresting FE Lord.). It has a clear goal and mostly succeed at it.

This game is flawed, but that doesn't means it's bad (far from it.). It's a unique experience, and that makes it totally worth playing.

[Batter the Beast]

It's my favorite FE, which means I can say that I love a lot of things about it and also that I can hate a bunch of things about it because I think about the most out of FEs in terms of thinking about game design

THE GOOD

• Capturing and Stealing gives you access to way more resources, while giving you less free cash as sort of compensation, meaning players have to think about what's worth selling so that they can buy sick loot like Wind tomes and S drinks. Namely, having access to more staves is super cool and I don't know why later FE games love to severely limit how many staves you can get.
• Prf weapons, leadership stars, PCC and character specific skills give many characters a niche that makes them unique and makes players consider deploying them even if they aren't huge stat walls like Eyrios. Sucks that dudes like Tanya and Marty get left out, meme status aside.
• Alongside the previous point, enemies aren't just stat walls to overcome, with many enemies being flat out bad statistically. A lot of the difficulty comes from enemy placement and inventories... as well as some BS things like ballistae reinforcements.
• Escape maps add variety to map design, allowing the devs freedom to toss unwinnable situations at you. Also gives the plot some freedom since the army can now lose battles. I don't even mind that Leif leaving means everyone else is captured.
• Personal preference as I love staves, but staves being super powerful overall instead of helping in a few niche cases. Warp is kinda too broken, though.
• Movement and Constitution growths are a neat concept that should be explored more, as well as units have different movement bases like Dagdar.
• Dismounting and indoor chapters help to balance the ongoing mount vs infantry war that plagues a lot of FE, although it doesn't completely address the issue cause of some outliers like Eyrios being amazing indoors and outdoors.
• Music and graphics have aged like a fine wine, with this game sporting my favorite portraits in all of FE. Although their meme quality isn't up to par with its predecessor
• The plot isn't too bad either, and Leif is one of the most relatable and human lords if not the most.
• Correlating to the point above, the small scale battles relative to other FEs makes for a more realistic story.

THE BAD

• The game is just flat out punishing to blind players, what with stuff like the harsh fog of war, reinforcements moving when they arrive, fatigue, and wacky recruitments.
• Fatigue is decent in theory, but poorly implemented especially since specific units might be needed to recruit others which screws over blind players and experienced players can generally just ignore fatigue as a whole due to S drinks.
• 1RN is kinda silly overall and lowers consistency of serious runs, but can lead to hilarious highlights.
• 99 hit and 1 hit being the ceiling and floor, respectively, also hampers consistency. You'd be surprised how much you see 1%s hitting and 99%s missing.
• Movement stars, while goofy, just add another layer of randomness that can ruin a player's day on the rare case when enemies have them.
• Dismounting forcing units to only use swords, with the rare General being able to use lances indoors, somewhat hampers weapon versatility indoors.
• Weapons that aren't swords and tomes kinda get screwed in the diversity department, with lances and axes only really getting to toy with effective weaponry, and bows don't even get that luxury. Heck, even with tomes, it's pretty much wind/light or bust, unless you're one of the Mage Knights with their neat thunder tomes
• Missable staves
• Throne bonuses are simply way too massive
• Warpskipping is cool and all, but allowing the player to ignore a lot of your map design isn't really great as a designer, and the designer shouldn't be making maps where straight up skipping it is preferable to playing it through

 

I probably forgot some stuff but screw it I already have a lot here.

[Slumber]

I play Fire Emblem because I like the strategy elements. Fire Emblem is at its strongest, strategically, in Thracia. Yeah, it's brutally difficult, but to anybody who hasn't played it, I'm guessing most people assume it's because enemies are just ridiculously broken, since the standard for "hard" FE nowadays is Lunatic Mode, where enemies just have insane stats and skills.

But this isn't how it is. Sure, there are tough enemies, and by about the halfway point you'll start facing some truly beefy bosses, but Thracia's difficult because it is the most... "experimental" in terms of messing with your expectations of strategy. There are very few maps outside of the opening chapters that are just "seize" or "route". Thracia puts a fire under your ass on a regular basis. The enemy placements are incredibly clever and often need careful consideration just to take out basic units. Chapter 14 is just... It's just the best thing ever. It just all comes together in a game with a ton of variety in its moment-to-moment gameplay, and smart enough game design to make it compelling throughout the whole game.

And I disagree when people say only a handful of units are "viable". You get arguably the best unit in the game in the first chapter, but his counterpart, Halvan, is a damn good unit in his own right. If you play the game like any other FE where you just focus on the most powerful units, you'll probably just spam Orsin every opportunity and get pissed when he gets tired and can't be used in the next chapter. This is where I think a lot of people hit this wall where they go "Fuck this game, only 3 units are usable." But if you level Halvan up alongside him, you get two very good units in the first chapter. And just a few chapters later, Machyua, another alternative to Halvan and Orsin, shows up, and she is also very good. This is true of most units. By the mid-point, the game is TOSSING incredibly strong units at you, but they start at lowish levels. You basically get 5 Ninos/Ests(Homer, Linoan, Miranda/Sara, Sleuf) in the span of 3 chapters in the mid-game. If you put work into any of them(Homer gets Paragon, so he's probably the easiest to work with), they're all end-game worth units. And this goes for even units that I don't think anybody ever thinks of using. Why use Trewd when you have Shiva? Well, because Trewd has very solid growths, solid bases, and shows up at a reasonable level. He ends up beefier than Shiva, and is very usable.

The only cases I can think of where units are not viable in the slightest are Ronan(Who's supposed to be a mage killer, but he's bad at it), Armor units(Do to their innately lover movement stats and defense caps as high as everyone else) and horse units that can't use swords when mounted(Finn is an exception). Everyone else can get moments to shine.

And that's not even bringing up the scrolls, which I think are probably the best way the series has ever handled "RNG-proofing" your characters.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Slumber

[Lip Service]

I'm barely starting my first playthrough of FE5 (just got to Ch. 7) so I can't speak of it as a whole, but as far as first impressions go I like it more than dislike so far. My biggest complaint is how unnecessarily cryptic it seems to be. It might just be due to an unfinished translation, but a brief "I won't leave anyone behind" being used as a way to explain other units being captured if Leif escapes first is hardly an explanation. The fact that you can miss both Lifis and Asvel (two characters that I can tell are almost crucial to these Manster chapters) is awful design. Also dodge tanking seems to be a big focus in some parts. All that said, I dig the map design and composition overall. I love when FE makes you use the most of what you've got. I'm not a fan of juggernauting so having every unit have a role to fulfill is awesome. It's part of the reason I like the concept of a fatigue system since further seems to prevent excessive focus on one unit (at least early game it does. I have a feeling that as HP gets higher and the roster expands, it'll end up being less of a concern).

I'll likely have a lot more to say once I've finished the game, but so far I love how much it not only did different but also clearly influenced a number of elements in future games.

[Lady Sansa]

Too many escape objectives. Growth units like Miranda are completely pointless due to the stat caps.

[Dunal]

Even though it's my fav FE due to sheer ambition and experimentation with its mechanics (which they sadly scrapped afterwards) the execution in many ways wasn't exactly perfect. Objectively, It's still a good FE game and one of the most challenging to boot, but still has many flaws. "jump-scare" difficulty is the term I like to use.

Otherwise, there's a lot to like about it. Capturing, Fatigue, skills, movement, objectives etc... all cool mechanics that had a lot of potential but sadly not optimised enough; then removed in future games likely because of it. The overall balance of the game was also well done overall, aside from some scrolls/skills.

Quote

Growth units like Miranda are completely pointless due to the stat caps.

Ironically, Est units are at their best in this game (since skills/weaponry/bonuses are often more important than stats).

[Shadow Mir]

I'm kinda surprised that it gets a lot of love here - imho, it feels like a rushed game with loads of problems. For one, fatigue - being arbitrarily barred from using a unit I like is something I just can't stand. Second, the escape maps just feel poorly designed, ESPECIALLY 24x, and that's not even my main gripe about them, which would be that you lose any units that didn't escape before Leif. Third, the throne bonuses are just stupid. Fourth, no guaranteed hits or misses. Fifth, staves can miss, which, to be blunt, is flat-out bad game design. Sixth, permanent status effects. As far as FE in general goes, status effects are already much more useful for the enemy than they are the player, and permanent status effects don't help any. Seventh, the caps, or the regression to 20 caps, to be more precise. Even if that was because of fatigue, the game preceding it was the first to abolish 20 caps.

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm kinda surprised that it gets a lot of love here - imho, it feels like a rushed game with loads of problems. For one, fatigue - being arbitrarily barred from using a unit I like is something I just can't stand. Second, the escape maps just feel poorly designed, ESPECIALLY 24x, and that's not even my main gripe about them, which would be that you lose any units that didn't escape before Leif. Third, the throne bonuses are just stupid. Fourth, no guaranteed hits or misses. Fifth, staves can miss, which, to be blunt, is flat-out bad game design. Sixth, permanent status effects. As far as FE in general goes, status effects are already much more useful for the enemy than they are the player, and permanent status effects don't help any. Seventh, the caps, or the regression to 20 caps, to be more precise. Even if that was because of fatigue, the game preceding it was the first to abolish 20 caps.

Excuse my quoting this comment and giving my thoughts as an illegitimate player of 776. I do think pretty highly of it to be honest.

1: It is at least tied to a gameplay stat, and encourages use of other units and not just using one staffbot to spam for the entire game or one hero to block and dodgetank (not completely averted to be honest).
2: Hmmm. Escape maps kind of vary, but I do like the idea (much as it drives people mad that Leaf needs to retreat last to prevent members being imprisoned, I actually don't dislike it.). The gaiden escape maps are infuriating, especially with how they have fog of war (including Chapter 24x, one of the most frustrating maps in the series).
3: Yep! Utterly stupid... until you consider there's tiles that can warp you into a death room and tiles that increase your magic (and thus your res) by 10, allowing players and enemies to be more broken. And they show up in the same map (fuck 24x is what I'm saying).
4: The floor and ceiling is irritating, but it also helps discourage one-manning (imo). And I'm pretty sure some ignore it anyway (see: Mareeta dodging dozens of Javelins on her own)
5: It is stupid.... but once a unit has high enough skill that stops entirely. And also enemies can miss with staves, it's not a stupid thing that just affects the player.
6: Yeah, this one drives me mad. In a game where your resources (ESPECIALLY restore staves) can be severely limited, statuses that are permanent can be a frustration and can even make the map impossible to finish (e.g. seize maps are unwinnable if Leaf's asleep and you don't have a restore staff on hand).
7: I think this is the only game where I can accept it. I do consider it a limitation for classes if the caps are the same, but in a game where you'll be rotating units, it's not such a big issue.

As for my thoughts on it...... It is both a game that delights in frustrating you with design that make things harder while decisions like accuracy ceilings certainly seem are odd at best. It's also the game that quietly leaves all the tools to tear right through it with aplomb. The fact that this game can be done in under 200 turns astounds me. 

So I have no idea how much I like it. I'll want to finish the rest of the series first.

[Slumber]

As much as I love Thracia, I do think it's a game that could benefit from a remake with refinements quite a lot to deal with a lot of these issues. But I think it has one of the most solid bases of the whole series. Some of the best map design and map utilization, varied objectives(Escape maps come hard and fast, but it's the only game in the franchise that I know of that layers up objectives that effectively have you basically accomplishing two or more objectives at once), a great roster of characters that would be nice to get some expanded characterization, and Leif's story is one of the most compelling lord stories(If not THE most) in the franchise.

In a lot of ways, it feels like the first "modern" FE, and the things it does well, it does really, really well. I feel like the pitfalls that SD and SoV fall into wouldn't be as big of an issue with Thracia. And so long as they don't add an avatar, it likely wouldn't have the pitfalls of NM. IS mainly tweaks gameplay balance in their remakes, and I think FE5 is the one where everything else stands on as it is.

(Also, I agree, fuck 24x)

[FrostyFireMage]

A game that requires a guide to even beat is not a good game.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Honestly I'd even agree with the above post if the word guide was replaced by door openers.

The only chapter you really need is a guide is chapter 24x because of the dumb pit tiles unless you have enough rescue staves. 

Tbf there are still passages in other FE parts you might need a guide like how to beat Julius in FE4. If Julia died before or you don't know how to recruit her back, you'll be pretty screwed.

It's right that FE5 is the beginner most unfriendly FE game, but it's not like that you can do all the recruitments in the other FE parts without a guide.