Let's clear some things up about Faye

[Wayward Alchemist]

[CompteSecours]

Faye is ok. And she is really cute.

[BANRYU]

33 minutes ago, Armagon said:

But like, Berkut is also new. And Linea. And Conrad. And Fernand. And Forenus even though he never actually appears in the game. This actually leads into a point I do want to make: I think Faye can be forgiven. Yes, her character is just "Alm love me pls" but at the end of the day, if she is a bad character, she's just this one little black spot in a good game.

Again, I don't hate Faye, I think she's alright and harmless. But I do see where people are coming from, even if I do feel that they are hating on Faye more than necessary.

....Oh. I stand very much corrected. I was told that she was the only new character but it appears I was misinformed, my apologies for that assertion. I suppose that's slightly less bad, then...? And yeah I have no doubts that she's scarcely more than a tiny blemish on the game at worst, so it's not like I'm turned off from trying the game because of her or anything, but I do think she's slightly worse than harmless, just because I think her character is kind of insulting to women in general... My initial opinion of her was simply annoyance, but having heard a couple women weigh in on it it feels like my dislike was more justified than I thought lol (initially I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, like 'okay yeah unrequited infatuation is a perfectly natural thing that people DO deal with so maybe it won't be so bad and maybe there's more to her than that', but it sounds like (and I might be misinformed about this as well, so until I see for myself, take this with a grain of salt) that's all there really is to her, and that she's kind of a shitty person about it to boot. I get the impression that her being cute is supposed to give her a pass on that, but as I said, I'll really have to see for myself to have a properly-informed opinion...

32 minutes ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

[way too much that says very little]

...-sigh- I don't have time for this... jeezus... Listen dude, if you're just gonna take a small cut-out of my argument at large that actually already addressed most of the shit you're saying, then I don't see why I should waste any more time discussing it with you, so maybe you wanna actually read and/or address that instead of laying out nebulous definitions that you think prove your point but don't actually address the topic at hand at all. I ain't got much else to say on it. 

So forgive me for thinking that the assertion that 'making all women characters strong would be sexist' was ridiculous enough on its own that I didn't need to elaborate on why. 

16 minutes ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

You're not wrong, dude... you're not wrong... /regrets many things about this thread and my involvement in it

/is at least thankful that can have a civil discussion with @Armagon about it despite that we seem to disagree

Edited April 16, 2017 by BANRYU

[Thunderstar]

3 hours ago, Thran Starcrod said:

The thing is, people will go out of their way to defend Camilla for obvious design reasons...  I doubt people will go out of their way to defend Faye, because of her plain appearance.

 

The thing is that Camilla is what people in this fandom seem to consider beautiful, and while there is some hint of backstory that is tragic, she had Xander as her older brother. Xander had to be going through mostly the same shit and look how he turned out, but yet defenders flock to Camilla(and Tharja, who is actually a deeper character than Camilla, though that's not saying much >.>). 

 

So while Camilla will be defended to the end of the earth, Faye will be torn apart, torn down, set on fire and the ashes burned in a heartbeat. Ironically, *I* find Faye's design beautiful, yet, because my experience with actual women and being an author, I will admit openly that she is a poorly written character.

Indeed I can see people loving her because she's supposed to be hot and because of her big boobs.

Not sure about Xander since he's the former Queen's son and probably wasn't involved with the Concubine wars but yeah Leo and Elise share the same backstory and they are fine.

I like Faye's design a lot but of course I wouldn't consider her (or any other cute/beautiful character) a good or well written character based only on their designs and not about their personalities and how well executed they are in the story or with other characters.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I agree, liking or bashing a character based solely on design is stupid. For me, I like both Faye AND Camilla but not Tharja and here's why. Tharja, unlike Faye and Camilla, is a yandere (or stalker, whatever). A lot of people are classifying Faye as a yandere, and I personally feel that she shouldn't be. For starters, Faye isn't going out of her way to get Alm to love her. Whereas Tharja would resort to hexes and voodoo and whatever, all Faye is doing is just being close to Alm. That's it. Going off her Heroes dialouge (as that's the one look we have at her localized version), she sounds genuinely happy at just the thought of Alm. Now yes, Faye does say in a Base Conversation something about obeying all of Alm's orders and she also says something about fighting enemies for Alm. But in the world of anime, you can say that and still not be classified as a yandere or stalker (example: Juvia from Fairy Tail).

Then there's the fact that Faye has known Alm since childhood. Despite being obsessed with him, she's known him long enough. Compare that to Tharja, who was just an enemy soldier until Chrom came in and recruited her. Because it was Chrom that recruited her, i'm surprised she's not going after him instead. And then there's the interactions. Looking at Faye's Supports with Alm, Alm doesn't feel awkward around Faye. He even says "She gets so excited over little things. Maybe I should learn from her" and then in their A-Support "I only found those things because of you all helping me along the way. Thank you, Faye. I'm glad we could have this journey together." Alm in no way is creeped out by Faye. Now compare this to Robin's Supports with Tharja. In those Supports, Robin is very much creeped out by Tharja, which makes sense. I too would be creeped out if someone was watching me sleep, taking notes of how many times I turned over while sleeping.

 

As for Camilla, what made me like her was her Supports with Niles. I truly believe that's one of the best Supports in Fates. Yes, Camilla does obsess over Corrin, but she's got a legitimate reason.

I will agree that Faye should've been more than just "Alm love me pls", but I'm not really mad about it. When Faye's character was revealed thanks to the datamines, I figured people would dislike her, but I didn't think it would be this much. I personally do feel that Faye is getting too much undeserved hate.

I can understand why you don't like Tharja for being a yandere and why you don't see Faye as a yandere but why don't you seem to see Camilla as one since she has yandere traits?

Camilla tries to kill Corrin and the Hoshidan royal family because Corrin "left" her and the Hoshidans "stole" Corrin from her.

Killing the person they love after being "rejected" or the person leaving them and killing people seen as "obstacles" between this person and them are usual things that yanderes do.

She also jokes about cutting Severa's legs so like that she can't leave her.

In the japanese version, she also threaten to kill Corrin after being married to him if she leaves him ans she stalks him if she is not married in the ending.

Even though Camilla might have better reasons to love Corrin than Tharja loving Robin, she's still a yandere.

[Tamanoir]

34 minutes ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

 

 

 

Don't go there. Nothing good will come out of it, I swear.

Your main problem here is to consider that you are assuming that a whole bunch of persons with different mindset (the writers) have to be put in a binary choice (sexist/not sexist).

And you can't prove anything just by laying definition. It's a pretty complex issue that won't be easily treated. And neitehr me nor you have the authroity to decide this.

If you try to win a debate, you have already lost.

 

Unrelated,thoug maybe not that much... I realized Faye seems to be like an anime harem character (the one who live only for MC). I... don't know if this is bad or good.

[KliffIsTheOG]

36 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

Don't go there. Nothing good will come out of it, I swear.

Your main problem here is to consider that you are assuming that a whole bunch of persons with different mindset (the writers) have to be put in a binary choice (sexist/not sexist).

And you can't prove anything just by laying definition. It's a pretty complex issue that won't be easily treated. And neitehr me nor you have the authroity to decide this.

If you try to win a debate, you have already lost.

 

Unrelated,thoug maybe not that much... I realized Faye seems to be like an anime harem character (the one who live only for MC). I... don't know if this is bad or good.

I could start a conversation with you in a separate thread in the "far from the forest" section if you would like to have a debate about the subject, but it should not continue here because it is derailing the thread.

Edited April 16, 2017 by KliffIsTheOG

[Slumber]

The tone of this argument is why I think Serenes has gotten a bad rap over the years. It's a bit needlessly hostile for arguing over an FE character in a game that hasn't even come out yet.

That said, while I wish you'd calm down, @BANRYU, I do agree that there likely is some unintentional sexism in Faye's development. Obviously not like anyone at IS is sitting at a desk, writing the script for this game, twiddling their fingers and going "HAHAHA, STUPID WOMEN, THIS'LL SHOW THEM", but I think there's something in the writing process that got in the way of what they were trying to do with Faye.

I think Faye is supposed to be a deconstruction of the Camilla/Tharja type. The creepy stalker who is completely obsessed with the main character, and incredibly mean and petty to virtually everyone else. While Tharja and Camilla live happy lives and keep up their stalker-y tendencies no matter who you hook them up with(Camilla straight up tells several of her options that they're basically just there to fill a Corrin sized hole in her heart), Faye lives an explicitly unhappy life and is a terrible mother/wife to the nameless dude she hooks up with and the kids they have. Faye's theme, as has been pointed out, is basically an inability to change, and her example is a bit truer to life than how we see Tharja and Camilla end up. Because of her inability to change, Faye ends up miserable(Compare, again, to Camilla, who even in Birthright, where she would be most likely to meet a terrible end, winds up living and freeing herself from Garon because of her obsession with Corrin. Her Hoshido counterpart, Takumi, doesn't get this same luck.).

BUT, while many deconstructions end up being mean, with overused tropes and writing techniques falling apart when an author decides to take them in realistic directions, there are multiple ways you could do a deconstruction. Rather than simply having her follow the same path as Tharja and Camilla, then end up miserable instead of living a fulfilling life, they could have had her overcome her vindictive, stalker tendencies in a much healthier way. This would get in the way of the whole "Her theme is about how she simply cannot change" thing, but it's arguable that she didn't even need to have a theme like this. You can still do the "People who refuse to change end up miserable, while those who move on may find happiness" spiel if there was just ONE support where she ended up changing, and led to an ending where she didn't inexplicably vanish from her family(Likely either to see Alm or because she's mentally broken at that point) for periods of time.

And this is where I think the "sexism" bit comes in. Again, I don't think this was the intention, but because of who Faye is supposed(Likely) to be a response to and how her development pans out, this comes off as "Women have obsessions with men, and if they can't get over their childish crushes, they can only be miserable". The theme of "Faye can't change" doesn't help, either, since the only aspect of her we see that she refuses to change is her obsession with Alm. It's the sole aspect that seems to be leading to Faye's misery, and apparently the only part of her personality worth commenting on.

I just hope that after Faye, IS has gotten over this whole "Vindictive female obsessed with male character" convention that they've been using for the last few years. Like, they didn't used to have this problem. It's a very recent development for the series, and to have three straight games of it(And Faye in particular) makes me hope that we're done with the Tharja/Camilla/Faye types.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[KliffIsTheOG]

.

Edited April 16, 2017 by KliffIsTheOG
pointless post

[BANRYU]

@Slumber Yeah man I think you're right, I might be getting a bit too up-in-arms over this. I think I'm gonna back off the thread a bit for now.

[mikethepokemaster]

30 minutes ago, Slumber said:

The tone of this argument is why I think Serenes has gotten a bad rap over the years. It's a bit needlessly hostile for arguing over an FE character in a game that hasn't even come out yet.

That said, while I wish you'd calm down, @BANRYU, I do agree that there likely is some unintentional sexism in Faye's development. Obviously not like anyone at IS is sitting at a desk, writing the script for this game, twiddling their fingers and going "HAHAHA, STUPID WOMEN, THIS'LL SHOW THEM", but I think there's something in the writing process that got in the way of what they were trying to do with Faye.

I think Faye is supposed to be a deconstruction of the Camilla/Tharja type. The creepy stalker who is completely obsessed with the main character, and incredibly mean and petty to virtually everyone else. While Tharja and Camilla live happy lives and keep up their stalker-y tendencies no matter who you hook them up with(Camilla straight up tells several of her options that they're basically just there to fill a Corrin sized hole in her heart), Faye lives an explicitly unhappy life and is a terrible mother/wife to the nameless dude she hooks up with and the kids they have. Faye's theme, as has been pointed out, is basically an inability to change, and her example is a bit truer to life than how we see Tharja and Camilla end up. Because of her inability to change, Faye ends up miserable(Compare, again, to Camilla, who even in Birthright, where she would be most likely to meet a terrible end, winds up living and freeing herself from Garon because of her obsession with Corrin. Her Hoshido counterpart, Takumi, doesn't get this same luck.).

BUT, while many deconstructions end up being mean, with overused tropes and writing techniques falling apart when an author decides to take them in realistic directions, there are multiple ways you could do a deconstruction. Rather than simply having her follow the same path as Tharja and Camilla, then end up miserable instead of living a fulfilling life, they could have had her overcome her vindictive, stalker tendencies in a much healthier way. This would get in the way of the whole "Her theme is about how she simply cannot change" thing, but it's arguable that she didn't even need to have a theme like this. You can still do the "People who refuse to change end up miserable, while those who move on may find happiness" spiel if there was just ONE support where she ended up changing, and led to an ending where she didn't inexplicably vanish from her family(Likely either to see Alm or because she's mentally broken at that point) for periods of time.

And this is where I think the "sexism" bit comes in. Again, I don't think this was the intention, but because of who Faye is supposed(Likely) to be a response to and how her development pans out, this comes off as "Women have obsessions with men, and if they can't get over their childish crushes, they can only be miserable". The theme of "Faye can't change" doesn't help, either, since the only aspect of her we see that she refuses to change is her obsession with Alm. It's the sole aspect that seems to be leading to Faye's misery, and apparently the only part of her personality worth commenting on.

I just hope that after Faye, IS has gotten over this whole "Vindictive female obsessed with male character" convention that they've been using for the last few years. Like, they didn't used to have this problem. It's a very recent development for the series, and to have three straight games of it(And Faye in particular) makes me hope that we're done with the Tharja/Camilla/Faye types.

Uh haven't IS use the trope of a female interested in the male lead or 2nd lead(example Robin) since FE1 with Catria(didn't get some one new). I mean they all either got with the Lord or found somebody new. Tana got Epheriam the girl from 8 like Ignis and she could end up with, I think . FE12 had Katarina(she only confess she like/love Chris though only to herself.) FE7 had Ninian for Eliwood. 13 had Cordelia and Tharja. 14 had Oboro and Camilla. I don't the trope is going anywhere.

[Armagon]

51 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

Camilla tries to kill Corrin and the Hoshidan royal family because Corrin "left" her and the Hoshidans "stole" Corrin from her.

Camilla trying to kill Corrin was because Garon threatened to execute her if she didn't. And as for Camilla trying to kill the Hoshidians, the other royals were trying to do the same thing as well.

51 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

She also jokes about cutting Severa's legs so like that she can't leave her

That's just a joke tho. We live in an age where we can make the darkest of jokes and it'll still be seen as a joke.

51 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

In the japanese version, she also threaten to kill Corrin after being married to him if she leaves him ans she stalks him if she is not married in the ending

The magic words right there. When I judge a character, game, whatever, I judge based on what I see in the English version of the game, because that's the version I play. For example, when I talk about Henry, i always talk about how he acts in the English version. Which is why i'm saving my full opinions on Faye until the English version of SoV comes out, because that's the one i'll be playing.

22 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Faye lives an explicitly unhappy life and is a terrible mother/wife to the nameless dude she hooks up with and the kids they have.

Does she though? Her ending says that she goes back to Ram Village, apparently marries (i'm hearing she does but i'm also hearing she doesn't) and occasionally disappears sometimes but it never states that she was unhappy, nor does it state that she was a terrible mother/wife. Going off her Heroes quotes (because again, that's the one look we have at English version Faye right now), the girl is too cheerful to be unhappy or to be a terrible person. Yes, Faye was rude to Silque but that's also in the Japanese version. We don't know if it'll be the same in the English version.

 

 

 

You know, there is still a chance for Faye to improve overall. There's gonna be 10 DLC maps that'll focus on character backstories and all that good stuff. It'll probably be like the Festival of Bonds DLC. And a character like Peri can get one redeeming factor from that DLC, then I think Faye has a chance of improvement.

[Slumber]

Just now, mikethepokemaster said:

Uh haven't IS use the trope of a female interested in the male lead or 2nd lead(example Robin) since FE1 with Catria(didn't get some one new). I mean they all either got with the Lord or found somebody new. Tana got Epheriam the girl from 8 like Ignis and she could end up with, I think . FE12 had Katarina(she only confess she like/love Chris though only to herself.) FE7 had Ninian for Eliwood. 13 had Cordelia and Tharja. 14 had Oboro and Camilla. I don't the trope is going anywhere.

FE1-3 are a bit different, due to the scant characterization of side characters in those games.

FE4 - Sigurd has Dierdre, but he reciprocates her feelings, and there's no creepy stalker stuff going on with Dierdre(Well, until Alvis brainwahses her, and that's the opposite. Alvis is the one obsessed with her, for bloodline purposes). Seliph has Julia for a short while, but that shit ends quick when they find out they're siblings.

FE5 - Nobody is "obsessed" with Leif. He's close with several girls, like Nanna, but none of them go anywhere, given that the game is a mid-quel.

FE6 - Nobody's obsessed with Roy. He has people like Lilina, but that all depends on supports. There's nobody who joins or follows Roy because they couldn't live without him.

FE7 - Eliwood shows interest in Ninian before Ninian shows interest in him, and the two don't even have to end up together. And again, Ninian spends most of FE7 away from Eliwood because she thinks she might be a burden, or because she's a dragon. She's not obsessed with him. Hector doesn't get anyone who is "obsessed" with him, either.

FE8 - Ephraim has Tana, but she's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from Tharja/Camilla level, and her feelings towards Ephraim are definitely not her main character trait. Her main character trait is being a free-spirit tomboy princess. You really only learn about her crush if you support her with Ephraim.

FE9/10 - I shouldn't even have to explain this one.

FE12 - You basically explained this one. Katarina doesn't even express her feelings towards Kris. It's far from the main part of her character.

Even Cordelia has more going on than "I have to bone Chrom". Which says a lot, given the tunnel-vision nature of FE13's characters. It's mostly just Tharja, Camilla and Faye who exhibit this "We exist purely to obsess over the main character" thing that has rubbed so many people the wrong way.

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Does she though? Her ending says that she goes back to Ram Village, apparently marries (i'm hearing she does but i'm also hearing she doesn't) and occasionally disappears sometimes but it never states that she was unhappy, nor does it state that she was a terrible mother/wife. Going off her Heroes quotes (because again, that's the one look we have at English version Faye right now), the girl is too cheerful to be unhappy or to be a terrible person. Yes, Faye was rude to Silque but that's also in the Japanese version. We don't know if it'll be the same in the English version.

It says she's unable to settle down, never forgetting Alm. It's pretty heavily implied that the live she lives after the game is not a happy one, and the man she married was well aware of this and married her knowing that she'd never get over Alm. The actions in her ending are not the actions of a happy, healthy person. The "mysteriously disappearing" part more or less cements this.

Compare her ending to nearly... everyone else. The tone of her ending is a lot more along the lines of other characters' bad endings.

And constantly disappearing, worrying her family is the sign of a bad parent/wife. Look at Goku. Dude saves the world multiple times, but the Dragon Ball fandom can't stop pointing out how awful of a father/husband he is because he spends most of his time training, leaving his family with little notice. Faye played a bit part in unifying Valentia. Compared to Goku, she may as well be Satan in pigtails.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It says she's unable to settle down, never forgetting Alm. It's pretty heavily implied that the live she lives after the game is not a happy one, and the man she married was well aware of this and married her knowing that she'd never get over Alm. The actions in her ending are not the actions of a happy, healthy person. The "mysteriously disappearing" part more or less cements this.

Her ending says: ”Although Faye returned to Ram village and her old life, she could never forgot Alm. A man who didn't mind this wooed her, and they were married. Despite this, she occasionally worried her family by disappearing unexpectedly.” It doesn't say that she's unable to settle down there. Yeah, she never forgets Alm but it also says she returned to her old life. Meaning, she went back to doing whatever it was she was doing before she left Ram Village. 

And then there's the part that says that man she married "wooed her", so it looks like, despite her feelings for Alm, whoever this guy is was able to win her over. The disappearing part doesn't sound ominous either. I mean, a lot of characters in the series like to vanish like that. Doesn't mean that they were unhappy. Of course, because it is a "disappeared" type ending, it's very open to interpretation, even if Faye's disappearances are only temporary, and plus, we don't know how frequent they are either.

[mikethepokemaster]

30 minutes ago, Slumber said:

FE1-3 are a bit different, due to the scant characterization of side characters in those games.

FE4 - Sigurd has Dierdre, but he reciprocates her feelings, and there's no creepy stalker stuff going on with Dierdre(Well, until Alvis brainwahses her, and that's the opposite. Alvis is the one obsessed with her, for bloodline purposes). Seliph has Julia for a short while, but that shit ends quick when they find out they're siblings.

FE5 - Nobody is "obsessed" with Leif. He's close with several girls, like Nanna, but none of them go anywhere, given that the game is a mid-quel.

FE6 - Nobody's obsessed with Roy. He has people like Lilina, but that all depends on supports. There's nobody who joins or follows Roy because they couldn't live without him.

FE7 - Eliwood shows interest in Ninian before Ninian shows interest in him, and the two don't even have to end up together. And again, Ninian spends most of FE7 away from Eliwood because she thinks she might be a burden, or because she's a dragon. She's not obsessed with him. Hector doesn't get anyone who is "obsessed" with him, either.

FE8 - Ephraim has Tana, but she's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from Tharja/Camilla level, and her feelings towards Ephraim are definitely not her main character trait. Her main character trait is being a free-spirit tomboy princess. You really only learn about her crush if you support her with Ephraim.

FE9/10 - I shouldn't even have to explain this one.

FE12 - You basically explained this one. Katarina doesn't even express her feelings towards Kris. It's far from the main part of her character.

Even Cordelia has more going on than "I have to bone Chrom". Which says a lot, given the tunnel-vision nature of FE13's characters. It's mostly just Tharja, Camilla and Faye who exhibit this "We exist purely to obsess over the main character" thing that has rubbed so many people the wrong way.

I didn't say there character were defined by there love for an MC I said IS always had a female either like the MC or 2nd lead and that part is mostly true even though you unlock Roy wife though supports I never said anything about obessed with MC either.

Edited April 16, 2017 by mikethepokemaster

[Slumber]

15 minutes ago, mikethepokemaster said:

I didn't say there character were defined by there love for an MC I said IS always had a female either like the MC or 2nd lead and that part is mostly true even though you unlock Roy wife though supports I never said anything about obessed with MC either.

Then you're bringing up something nobody's even arguing about. Nobody's railing on characters who simply like the main character.

 

21 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Her ending says: ”Although Faye returned to Ram village and her old life, she could never forgot Alm. A man who didn't mind this wooed her, and they were married. Despite this, she occasionally worried her family by disappearing unexpectedly.” It doesn't say that she's unable to settle down there. Yeah, she never forgets Alm but it also says she returned to her old life. Meaning, she went back to doing whatever it was she was doing before she left Ram Village. 

And then there's the part that says that man she married "wooed her", so it looks like, despite her feelings for Alm, whoever this guy is was able to win her over. The disappearing part doesn't sound ominous either. I mean, a lot of characters in the series like to vanish like that. Doesn't mean that they were unhappy. Of course, because it is a "disappeared" type ending, it's very open to interpretation, even if Faye's disappearances are only temporary, and plus, we don't know how frequent they are either.

The lead up to her disappearing is the term "despite", following the appearance of her settling down. I don't think I need to point it out to anyone, but "despite" is a term to point out contradictions in a statement/situation, in fact being "in spite of". "Despite" the fact that she had found a husband, she was still pining over Alm and straight up abandoned her family without warning on multiple occasions.

No matter how frequent or infrequent this is(It's often enough for it to take up half of her ending), this is incredibly unhealthy behavior, and not something a mentally sound/happy person does, especially given the context of her disappearances.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Then you're bringing up something nobody's even arguing about. Nobody's railing on characters who simply like the main character.

 

The lead up to her disappearing is the term "despite", following the appearance of her settling down. I don't think I need to point it out to anyone, but "despite" is a term to point out contradictions in a statement/situation, in fact being "in spite of". "Despite" the fact that she had found a husband, she was still pining over Alm and straight up abandoned her family without warning on multiple occasions.

No matter how frequent or infrequent this is(It's often enough for it to take up half of her ending), this is incredibly unhealthy behavior, and not something a mentally sound/happy person does, especially given the context of her disappearances.

Here's the thing though. Disappearances don't mean unhappiness in the world of Fire Emblem. Like, Navarre, Phina, Sophia, Igreen, and a couple other characters in the series just disappear. Does that mean they were unhappy? No. Or maybe yes. We don't know. The same applies to Faye. The difference here is that Faye actually does return from her disappearances, compared to everybody else in the series who has disappeared. And the fact that she returns in the first place is proof that, despite all things, she still cares about her family in the end. If she didn't, the ending would say "Although Faye returned to Ram village and her old life, she could never forgot Alm. A man who didn't mind this wooed her, and they were married. One day, however, she mysteriously disappeared and never returned". Inb4 the English version of the game does this.

And again, going off her Heroes quotes, she's too cheerful to live a completely unhappy life. It is possible that whenever Faye is unhappy, she disappears. But if that's the case, then her returning from the disappearances is her getting over her sadness.....at least until it comes back.

My point is, i doubt Faye lives an entirely unhappy life. Living a completely happy life is unrealistic. Living a completely unhappy life is also unrealistic.

 

[Slumber]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Here's the thing though. Disappearances don't mean unhappiness in the world of Fire Emblem. Like, Navarre, Phina, Sophia, Igreen, and a couple other characters in the series just disappear. Does that mean they were unhappy? No. Or maybe yes. We don't know. The same applies to Faye. The difference here is that Faye actually does return from her disappearances, compared to everybody else in the series who has disappeared. And the fact that she returns in the first place is proof that, despite all things, she still cares about her family in the end. If she didn't, the ending would say "Although Faye returned to Ram village and her old life, she could never forgot Alm. A man who didn't mind this wooed her, and they were married. One day, however, she mysteriously disappeared and never returned". Inb4 the English version of the game does this.

And again, going off her Heroes quotes, she's too cheerful to live a completely unhappy life. It is possible that whenever Faye is unhappy, she disappears. But if that's the case, then her returning from the disappearances is her getting over her sadness.....at least until it comes back.

My point is, i doubt Faye lives an entirely unhappy life. Living a completely happy life is unrealistic. Living a completely unhappy life is also unrealistic.

 

There's a big difference between "Leaving the group because they have no attachments" and "randomly leaving your husband and children multiple times". People like Navarre were wanders by nature. Sophia was always an enigma, but if she marries Roy, she doesn't disappear. She stays with Roy. And Igrene doesn't just "disappear". She just goes home. And since her home happens to be Nabata, she never sees any of her allies again, because Nabata is an uninhabitable desert.

You clearly see a difference here, right? None of these people leave somebody they've committed themselves to. Sophia straight up just stays with Roy if she supports with him.

And don't use Heroes quotes. That stuff isn't canon at all. She comes off as cheerful in Heroes, but her Alm supports in Echoes explicitly state that she's happy so long as she can be with Alm, and that she can't/won't change, while her supports with everyone else are hostile or flippant depending on whether she sees them as a threat to her and Alm.

Taken together with her supports(Actual dialogue in the game), you can easily put it together that Faye is unhappy in her normal life, and disappears to go see Alm, the only person that she has explicitly stated that she's happy around. You can try to reason around this, but with everything else about the game, and the fact that she only has ONE ending(Which happens to be more in-tone with the bad endings of everyone else), I am almost positive that the intention of the ending is to say that Faye's living an unhappy, unfulfilling life.

She's certainly not intended to be portrayed like a good mother/wife.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Thunderstar]

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Camilla trying to kill Corrin was because Garon threatened to execute her if she didn't. And as for Camilla trying to kill the Hoshidians, the other royals were trying to do the same thing as well.

She only mentions this on Revelation. On Birthright, she fails to kill Corrin and tthe Hoshidans twice, she is totally fine and Garon never threatens to execute her or the other siblings at all.

The only Nohrian he threatens to execute in that route is just Iago.

Here are some lines she said on Birthright that a typical yandere character would say:

Spoiler

• Camilla: Oh, I'm so terribly jealous of you all. My dear Avatar chose you. He'll never be our brother/sister again. I'll never get to sing him/her to sleep. We've loved him/her for most of his life, but I guess that wasn't enough in the end... I'll make you pay for taking him/her from us! You'll all die, here and now!
•  
• Camilla: I love you, Avatar. But if you survive long enough to make it all the way up here... I will do what I must and pierce your body with my blade. And then cradle you in my arms...just as I did when you were a child.
•  
• Camilla: Hmm. I see. So you want to come back, but these awful people are still confusing your little head. Don't worry, darling. Big Sister is here to take care of these monsters for you!
•  
• Camilla: Don't worry, Elise. I promise to save our precious Avatar. Once I've killed all his/her friends, he's/she's sure to remember his/her true family. Right? Right!
•  

Also Xander and Leo didn't say crazy and creepy things unlike her when they tried to kill Corrin and the Hoshidans.

The main problem I have is that you said that Tharja is a yandere unlike Camilla.
That line is quite confusing to me because like I showed you, Camilla is a yandere as well and most people see her as one.

That's one of the main reasons why some fans who like Tharja also like Camilla. That's because they belong to the same character trope. 

Her having a reason to love Corrin doesn't change the fact she's a yandere.

If you like Camilla because she has a reason to love Corrin just say that but don't say that she is not a yandere.

 

17 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That's just a joke tho. We live in an age where we can make the darkest of jokes and it'll still be seen as a joke.

You said that Robin is creeped out by Tharja and it seems to be one of the reasons you don't like her even though that the whole support can be seen as a big joke as well since Robin seems to be more confortable with her at the end and doesn't even mind anymore to be stalked by her in the S support.

I said that Camilla was joking but Severa is also creeped out by her. Corrin also felt awkward in his supports with Camilla and she acts creepy in general just like Tharja.

I am not defending Tharja but I just don't see the differences between these 2 characters' actions here and why you don't seem to treat Camilla as a creepy character unlike Tharja.

 

57 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The magic words right there. When I judge a character, game, whatever, I judge based on what I see in the English version of the game, because that's the version I play. For example, when I talk about Henry, i always talk about how he acts in the English version. Which is why i'm saving my full opinions on Faye until the English version of SoV comes out, because that's the one i'll be playing.

The problem is that you're comparing fan translated SoV Faye's supports lines to localized english Tharja and Robin's supports, even though we don't have the english version of SoV yet.

You talked about Faye in Heroes at first then you decided to talk about her in SoV.

[Emperor Hardin]

Faye also loves Alm, but there's already Clair?

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Faye also loves Alm, but there's already Clair?

Claire ends up liking Grey, so I don't know what the point here is.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Emperor Hardin]

30 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Claire ends up liking Grey, so I don't know what the point here is.

Her ending has her say "Alm was the one I really wanted."

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Her ending has her say "Alm was the one I really wanted."

In OG Gaiden. Neither of her Echoes endings mention Alm, both are about Gray.

Plus, even her OG bad ending(Gray dead) implies that what she says in her good ending(Gray alive) was a joke.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Emperor Hardin]

7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

In OG Gaiden. Neither of her Echoes endings mention Alm, both are about Gray.

Thats interesting, maybe they downplayed her crush on Alm due to Faye?

[Slumber]

Just now, Emperor Hardin said:

Thats interesting, maybe they downplayed her crush on Alm due to Faye?

Probably. Or maybe since there are supports now, they just put more emphasis on those, which develop Claire's feelings towards Gray a bit more. After her C support with Gray, it seems like she gets over her Alm crush, so they likely just removed her joke from her normal ending.