Can somebody provide a summary of character's personalities?

[Slumber]

I don't like that Alm had been made into an idealistic typical lord.

It makes more sense if his ideology ended up leading to somebody like Walhart centuries down the line. Which is more in-line with OG Gaiden/Awakening Alm.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Slumber

[NaokiP]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I don't like that Alm had been made into an idealistic typical lord.

It makes more sense if his ideology ended up leading to somebody like Walhart centuries down the line. Which is more in-line with OG Gaiden/Awakening Alm.

You're forgetting the fact that Alm nevertheless united Valentia under a single banner and ousted the corrupt god-dragons from the realm. He's in every right the conqueror that Walhart aspired to be, and I'd dare say even more so. He's also anything but idealistic when initially taking the fight to Rigel, everyone's hyped up to get back at the supposed "bad guys", unaware of the forces at play in the shadows.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I guess with the current interpretation of Alm's character, perhaps the history books slowly started to twist his story, glorifying the Conqueror part, which inspired Walhart.

[LoyalKing32]

12 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I guess with the current interpretation of Alm's character, perhaps the history books slowly started to twist his story, glorifying the Conqueror part, which inspired Walhart.

That actually makes sense with Alm displayed as this savage when he's actually a normal villager boy with feelings, overpraising an average hero like Marth, and history apparently displaying Arvis as this evil cold villain from the DLC dialogue when there were other forces at play and there was more to him.

Edited May 1, 2017 by LoyalKing32

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I guess with the current interpretation of Alm's character, perhaps the history books slowly started to twist his story, glorifying the Conqueror part, which inspired Walhart.

This makes a whole lot of sense actually. I mean, the time between Alm and Walhart is 2000 years. That's more than enough time for history to be distorted.

Heck, even the legends of Marth aren't the whole thing in Awakening's time. The game puts a bit more emphasis on the unnamed first Exalt, who lived 1000 years before Chrom but 1000 years after Marth, and even then, history doesn't say much other that the first Exalt sealed Grima.

So i can definitly see the history books mainly focusing on Alm uniting Valentia but not really talking about what type of person Alm was.

Adding to this, we know that by Awakening's time, the religions of Naga and Mila have merged but there isn't a single mention of Duma. Probably because since he was the one who Alm fought, then history would paint Duma as the "bad guy".

[Thane]

8 hours ago, NaokiP said:

Quoting on mobile is hard so I'll answer these manually. @Thane

1. I for one like the new Alm. Awakening made him sound like a proper douche. I guess he just didn't wanna rail on Fernand because he didn't really know the guy.(that won't stop me from doing it lol). In Berkut's case it felt like Alm realized that the former was so fargone that there was no saving him, and felt sorry for the guy. He's a lot more believable and down to earth now if you ask me, but I can understand some people liking him for being a more savage sort of Lord.

 

8 hours ago, unique said:

honestly it's the believable part that mainly makes it better for me

like, I thought what they did in awakening was super interesting and totally would've worked with gaiden's theme of "power vs kindness" 

but the thing is, alm grew up in a little village with his loving grandfather and a bunch of other kids, and as far as we can tell, only left it one time when he was very young. sure his grandfather trained him to fight and all, but it just doesn't seem very realistic for him to be all savage and aggressive when he had such a simple upbringing.  

and from what I've seen so far, I really like what they've done with him! he's definitely all innocent and cutesy but I think it's pretty endearing and at the very least, it feels pretty unique compared to most of the other lords. in battles you can tell that he's pretty damn strong and won't hesitate in a fight but at the same time he's a nice guy who came from a small village. it's simple but so far, i've found him pretty likable.

I must say I disagree with you. Alm not being "savage" feels like it goes against the theme of the entire game. 

Valentia is split into two, with one country being too cold and power-hungry and the other being too lax and frivolous. The game keeps trying to drive home the point that either extreme is really bad and that you need to meet in the middle in order to find the right balance. That's why Alm and Celica are meant to symbolize one part of the conflict while influencing each other to find a middle ground. However, where Celica is 100% naïve, loving and very typical kind anime girl, which fits with representing Zofia, Alm is...a chill, sometimes awkward guy. You could argue that makes sense because of Celica's influence, but...they don't spend that much time with each other, and Celica shows no real trace of having her personality be influenced by Alm's. 

I'm not saying Alm isn't likeable. I'm saying Alm doesn't fit with the story they were trying to tell, and it's a waste to make him much more like other lords in the series. His Awakening persona would've fit much better in that he could've been reined in by Celica, while he in turn slaps some sense into her. Here, instead, he's forgiving to his enemies even though it straight up doesn't make sense.

As for him having a simple upbringing leading to him not being violent, well, I disagree with you. I'd say it's just because he's been sheltered that he'd jump to the conclusion that the Rigelians are an evil that need to be stopped, seeing as they pose a threat to everything he's ever cared about - after all, he comes from Zofia, a place that until recently barely had a care in the world. It would also nicely mirror Walhart being from a pathetically smal country in Valm.

8 hours ago, NaokiP said:

4. It was dumb... It amounted to "if you don't come to Death Mountain blah blah I'll make sure Alm suffers blah blah you don't want all your comrades to suffer do you blah". It was the most paper-thin generic blackmail and she took it hook line and sinker, even worse than Eirika's episodes in FE8.

Spoiler

Yeah that's what I thought. Doesn't she actually, 100% seriously, ask "I can trust you, right?"? I mean...really, Celica? And why couldn't she tell her friends? She comes across as not only stupid but also uncaring in how she neglects telling the people following her through dangerous territory what they're fighting for.

 

8 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Spoiler

I think Alm, despite being antagonized by Fernand, heard much about him from Clive, Clair and Mathilda, so he knew that Fernand wasn't as bad as he appeared to be. I think it was that indirect connection, and the fact that Fernand was dying right in front of him, took away any hate Alm might have had towards Fernand.

 

Spoiler

The thing is, Alm says even before that that he fights for Fernan or something along those lines. It's like Fernan's sob story excuses his behavior - he's fought and belittled them every step of the way. I understand not rubbing the salt in the wound when he's lying there dying, but Alm really shouldn't feel any sort of connection to the guy.

 

8 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Spoiler

It felt like, at the end of the story, they made it sound like Celica's path was "wrong" or something, since she apologized for everything and Alm had to clean up. Alm admitted to only knowing how to fight, but his line of thinking never directly caused problems in the story, so he didn't have to think about it. They could have brought it up after Alm kills Rudolf. The game sort of places the blame on Mycen, Rudolf himself planning it, and the fucked up world in general, and later Celica even apologizes for not telling Alm in advance. I feel like Alm should have had a moment of reflection, and realize that he killed his own father because he was too eager to go into battle, even though his heart told him not to in the pre-battle convo.

 

Spoiler

Exactly. It was like that in Gaiden as well, where all Celica said was "maybe we can avoid this if we talk about it" while, you know...Rigel was invading. 

This doesn't feel like finding the middle ground between power and love, this feels like Alm starting out right and finishing right while Celica is the one who has to come around. Hell, Alm's most violent scene is in a foreboding dream that doesn't happen.

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Thane

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

25 minutes ago, Thane said:

 

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Exactly. It was like that in Gaiden as well, where all Celica said was "maybe we can avoid this if we talk about it" while, you know...Rigel was invading. 

This doesn't feel like finding the middle ground between power and love, this feels like Alm starting out right and finishing right while Celica is the one who has to come around. Hell, Alm's most violent scene is in a foreboding dream that doesn't happen.

 

Spoiler

They definitely should have tried to fix that part of the story in this game. It's not like there was too much to go off of anyway, so I'm sure it would have been fine to tweak the plot to be less biased towards Alm without destroying the spirit of the game or anything. Guess it just didn't occur to the monkeys at IS... They haven't been doing too well with deeper themes.

 

[Salamud]

The issue with doing a character like Celica who interacts with a character like Alm is that Fire Emblem is a video game centered on war. There are hardly any situations that aren't fixed without battle and outside of Warp abuse there's not actually any options to reliably avoid combat when playing the maps. 

Gaiden/Echoes tries to say that you shouldn't act in excess and try to stay within balance. But Alm doesn't really have a character arc to change himself to be less warlike. He's never in a situation where confronts his warmongering. His policy towards Rigel is vindicated while Celica is the one who admits she was acting from fear instead of what was needed. 

[Cat Villager]

Is Celica really " 100% naïve, loving and very typical kind anime girl"? From watching some videos I've got the impression that she's less sociable and more hard on herself than Alm and seems to have difficulties with relying on her companions.

[bugmaniacbob]

1 hour ago, Salamud said:

The issue with doing a character like Celica who interacts with a character like Alm is that Fire Emblem is a video game centered on war. There are hardly any situations that aren't fixed without battle and outside of Warp abuse there's not actually any options to reliably avoid combat when playing the maps. 

Gaiden/Echoes tries to say that you shouldn't act in excess and try to stay within balance. But Alm doesn't really have a character arc to change himself to be less warlike. He's never in a situation where confronts his warmongering. His policy towards Rigel is vindicated while Celica is the one who admits she was acting from fear instead of what was needed. 

But in OG Gaiden, Alm is the one who has to go out of his way to *not* fight with people - he has enemy recruitable units in Delthea and Zeke - while at the same time Celica is the one forced to choose an arbitrary enemy to kill in order to progress on her quest, and can't avoid fighting by talking. I always interpreted Chapter 3 in particular as being the point in the original game in which both Celica and Alm were being forced to consider decisions that didn't fit with their preexisting ideologies and the player could cause good or bad ends by following through with their original ideas or by making the choice that the other would have made. Sure, it's not much of a character arc, but in the context of the practically dialogue-free Gaiden it's as much character development as it's possible to infer.

-----

Anyway, to anybody who has played the game thus far, can you enlighten me as to whether any of the above considerations are present in any shape in the dialogue? To whit, does Celica have any consternation about the idea of choosing to kill either Sonya or Deen on entirely arbitrary grounds, or think about how Alm would just do what needed to be done without angsting about it? Does Alm have any momentary hesitation about Delthea or Zeke, based on the fact that Celica would want him to at least try to save them, even if the "safest" route is to simply kill them?

I'm guessing, based on how toned down their personalities are, that this isn't the case, which would be a great shame, but I thought I'd ask just in case.

[Armagon]

19 minutes ago, bugmaniacbob said:

But in OG Gaiden, Alm is the one who has to go out of his way to *not* fight with people - he has enemy recruitable units in Delthea and Zeke - while at the same time Celica is the one forced to choose an arbitrary enemy to kill in order to progress on her quest, and can't avoid fighting by talking. I always interpreted Chapter 3 in particular as being the point in the original game in which both Celica and Alm were being forced to consider decisions that didn't fit with their preexisting ideologies and the player could cause good or bad ends by following through with their original ideas or by making the choice that the other would have made. Sure, it's not much of a character arc, but in the context of the practically dialogue-free Gaiden it's as much character development as it's possible to infer.

-----

Anyway, to anybody who has played the game thus far, can you enlighten me as to whether any of the above considerations are present in any shape in the dialogue? To whit, does Celica have any consternation about the idea of choosing to kill either Sonya or Deen on entirely arbitrary grounds, or think about how Alm would just do what needed to be done without angsting about it? Does Alm have any momentary hesitation about Delthea or Zeke, based on the fact that Celica would want him to at least try to save them, even if the "safest" route is to simply kill them?

I'm guessing, based on how toned down their personalities are, that this isn't the case, which would be a great shame, but I thought I'd ask just in case.

From what I understand, Luthier asked Alm to save Delthea, who is his sister. I think even Gaiden/Awakening Alm would at least try to save her if asked to. Also, Luthier was a member of his army, so it would be very bad if he killed Delthea.

As for Zeke, to my understanding, he joins you once he sees that Tatiana is safe. So Alm really didn't have to fight him.

[Thane]

32 minutes ago, bugmaniacbob said:

Does Alm have any momentary hesitation about Delthea

While I can't comment on the other ones with 100% certainty (though I don't believe Celica says anything about killing Deen/Sonya; they're just regular enemies in Grieth's employ that don't have any dialoge before their battle I believe), I do know that if you've spoken to and recruited Luthier, Alm orders everyone not to attack Delthea and says he made a promise to save her. Zero hesitation.

[NaokiP]

Clive challenges Alm's decision to save her, arguing that the whole situation is too dangerous to consider risking victory for the sake of one little girl. Alm visibly doubts himself for a second, but decides to go through with it anyway. He's determined to help anyone he possibly can on his way.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

While I can't comment on the other ones with 100% certainty (though I don't believe Celica says anything about killing Deen/Sonya; they're just regular enemies in Grieth's employ that don't have any dialoge before their battle I believe), I do know that if you've spoken to and recruited Luthier, Alm orders everyone not to attack Delthea and says he made a promise to save her. Zero hesitation.

Wait, so if Alm doesn't talk to and recruit Luthier, does that mean that Alm would attack Delthea then?

[Thane]

Just now, Armagon said:

Wait, so if Alm doesn't talk to and recruit Luthier, does that mean that Alm would attack Delthea then?

I have no idea; I've only played through the game once. I doubt it though; if I were to guess, he'd just say something seems wrong with her and order everyone not to attack her and instead focus on Tatara or whatever the generic's name was.

[Etrurian emperor]

Maybe Alm will be written in a more aggressive fashion in the western release. It wouldn't be the first time that a character is written differently in subtle or not so subtle way when being ported over to the west. 

[Armagon]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

Maybe Alm will be written in a more aggressive fashion in the western release. It wouldn't be the first time that a character is written differently in subtle or not so subtle way when being ported over to the west. 

Doubt it. From the English footage we've seen, Alm isn't that aggressive, outside of the vision Celica had of him getting rekt. He's still basically the same as in the Japanese version, though i assume that him being sarcastic with Clair in her recruitment was written in the localization.

Ok, i do want to point out, despite the fact that Alm isn't as aggressive as some would have hoped...

Spoiler

...let me remind you that he still just straight-up punched Slayde in the prologue. And it hurt Slayde too. That was amazing.

Man, now I want to see a Lord who only fights with his fists. 

 

[NaokiP]

I'm guessing that Dyuute is freed of Tatara's influence if he's killed first regardless of whether Alm has talked to Ryuuto. You can consider it a lucky coincidence in that case, it's all up to the player. You just won't get Clive's and Alm's remarks before the battle, but it's worth testing out. This is mere conjecture.