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Harvey

How to fix Swordmasters?

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Swordmasters are the most favored for most like me. They are mostly reliable and sometimes aren't when it comes to units like Karla.

But as the games go on, Swordmasters have still remained to be sword locked and not having ranged attacks as well as low movement...despite one unit fixing all of this making that unit overpowered as a result....

So what according to you needs swordmasters to improve?

 

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I think the critical bonus and evasion bonus they get in Fates is kind of enough to balance them. Their standard skills they learn through leveling are all good too. I think they are fine now. 

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Don't know if the critical bonus in FE6 was a tad excessive though at +30, even if the +15 of latter games feels a little weak.

Fates made SMs decent due to the 1-2 physical offense nerf, but they could've been a bit more evasive.

I'd focus more on curtailing mounted unit power. Heroes and other foot competition are fine as is.

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Honestly I don't see any needs for improvements. They were fine in most games.

Swordmasters were only a bit OP in FE6 because of the huge crit boost and the fact swords being the most accurate physical weapon type. Also I never understood why effective swords had better accuracy than steel swords. Rutger + armorslayer really brakes the game.

In FE10 they could be made OP too thanks to broken skill combos (resolve + adept + astra).
 

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Low movement? They have the same movement as every other promoted non-armored foot unit. Swordmasters don't really need 'fixing' since the tools to help them out are already there(or built in with the crit bonus).

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As of Fates Swordmasters are a good class. Ryoma being overpowered notwithstanding, Hana and Hinata are both very strong units as SMs. Mounted units are no longer at as much of an advantage as they were previously (the higher mov does help them but it isn't like they are strictly better because of it). 

Swordmasters are fine.

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I say sword masters are fine if they have a reasonable crit boost and evade boost like they do in fates. From what i see, the reason why being sword locked is bad was because there were no common 1-2 range physical swords in the game until RD. With 1-2 ranged common swords should help them a lot because they can now retaliate at range using their strength rather than their pitiful magic, or a set value.

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1 hour ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Swordmasters are fine.

If they are fine, then why is there complaints about several units of this class being swordlocked and lack the 1-2 range attacks alongside their low movement?

 

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1 minute ago, Harvey said:

If they are fine, then why is there complaints about several units of this class being swordlocked and lack the 1-2 range attacks alongside their low movement?

 

Read the whole post. They are fine, now. They used to be worse. 

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Give them the same Strength as Heroes. Swords are already the weakest weapon type and Heroes have better bulk and axes to separate themselves.

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48 minutes ago, Harvey said:

If they are fine, then why is there complaints about several units of this class being swordlocked and lack the 1-2 range attacks alongside their low movement?

You're comparing the Karel argument from a different thread to Swordmasters now.

Swordmasters haven't been "bad" since Radiant Dawn, and that's more because of their pitiful strength cap than the lack of 1-2 attack range options. I guess you could consider them "bad" in Awakening, purely because they aren't Sorcerers.

Look at Ryoma, and how OP basically everyone considers him. Good caps, good skills, and the wider option of ranged weaponry for swordies fixed basically every complaint you could have had about Swordmasters from previous games.

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I guess you could consider them "bad" in Awakening, purely because they aren't Sorcerers.

Actually I'd call SMs bad in Awakening- too much enemy phase and only rare swords- Amatsu, the Levin Sword, and Ragnell, have 1-2 range. Maybe they make decent pair up fodder, or get decent once you can GF everything on the player phase, but between range 1 lock and no natural critical or avoid bonuses, the class was bad in no-grind ingame.

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2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Look at Ryoma, and how OP basically everyone considers him. Good caps, good skills, and the wider option of ranged weaponry for swordies fixed basically every complaint you could have had about Swordmasters from previous games.

Except the problem is that he's completely broken. He really doesn't need so much of buffness from his personal skill and his main weapon.

 

 

Edited by Harvey

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2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Except the problem is that he's completely broken. He really doesn't need so much of buffness from his personal skill and his main weapon.

 

 

Then doesn't that show that Swordmasters are fine then? 

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11 hours ago, Harvey said:

But as the games go on, Swordmasters have still remained to be sword locked and not having ranged attacks

List of 1-2 range swords that can be used by Swordsmasters in later games:

FE9: Runesword and Sonic Sword

FE10: Wind Edge, Storm Sword, Tempest Blade and Alondite

FE13: Levin Sword, Amatsu and Ragnell

 

Seriously, do you even Fire Emblem, bro?

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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24 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Then doesn't that show that Swordmasters are fine then? 

No, because most of the reason that Ryoma is so good is entirely due to factors that are Ryoma exclusive and not his class.

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1 hour ago, Refa said:

No, because most of the reason that Ryoma is so good is entirely due to factors that are Ryoma exclusive and not his class.

True, but something like say Ryoma as a Butler isn't broken. 

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54 minutes ago, Augestein said:

True, but something like say Ryoma as a Butler isn't broken. 

Thats ignoring his Sword on purpose though. 

His sword is why he's so good. Not his class, is the point. 

Swordmasters were at their best in fe6 and fe12, while being mediocre or bad in the rest of the games.

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38 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Thats ignoring his Sword on purpose though. 

His sword is why he's so good. Not his class, is the point. 

Swordmasters were at their best in fe6 and fe12, while being mediocre or bad in the rest of the games.

FE5, too, but that's due to having a solid skill at promotion, the uniform stat caps of FE5, the prevalence of axe enemies, and the wide variety of utility and offensive swords in that game. 

Mareeta's one of the few physical units in the game who can give Orsin a run for his money, while Shiva and Troude are both solid.

Edited by Slumber

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

FE5, too, but that's due to having a solid skill at promotion, the uniform stat caps of FE5, the prevalence of axe enemies, and the wide variety of utility and offensive swords in that game. 

Mareeta's one of the few physical units in the game who can give Orsin a run for his money, while Shiva and Troude are both solid.

FE5 balances itself out into mediocre, because you have people like Mareeta and Shiva, then you have Shanam, and this is literally the first time i've heard someone call Trewd/Troude solid, he's tanky for his class, but generally people don't praise him.

Also FE5 in general is just decently balanced.

Edited by Jedi

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26 minutes ago, Jedi said:

FE5 balances itself out into mediocre, because you have people like Mareeta and Shiva, then you have Shanam, and this is literally the first time i've heard someone call Trewd/Troude solid, he's tanky for his class, but generally people don't praise him.

People don't praise him because of redundancy when Shiva and Mareeta exist.

His tankiness aside, his skill growth's lower, but not enough for it to be a problem, his strength is lower, but again, not enough to be a problem given the caps of the game, and his speed, luck, defense and build are the exact same as Shiva's.

If you adjust Shiva's levels to match Troude's bases, Shiva has 3 lower HP than Troude, 1 lower bld, 1 higher speed, 2 higher luck, while speed, strength, defense and magic are the exact same. By 20/20, they'll both probably cap strength, skill, speed and luck, while Troude will have higher HP by 10 points and build by 1 point, while Shiva gets nothing over him.

The only things really separating Troude and Shiva are their skills, both of which are good, and not outstanding(Nihil for Troude, Sol for Shiva).

And you don't even get Troude late enough to the point where he's unusable. He joins two chapters after Mareeta, but 6 levels higher.

There's absolutely nothing about Troude that would make him "bad" or "not solid" while considering Shiva "good". They're definitely not on opposite ends of the spectrum. EXP is abundant enough in FE5 that you can pretty freely swap units in and out pretty consistently(And is actually expected of you from a gameplay perspective), so Troude joining 8 chapters later isn't actually that big of a deal. The game tosses low level units from chapter 14 onward and you can pretty comfortably use all of them.

If you suddenly decide after getting Mareeta that you want to use another Swordmaster, I'd recommend Troude over Shiva simply due to how similar the two are, with Troude being a higher level.

Edited by Slumber

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2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Thats ignoring his Sword on purpose though. 

His sword is why he's so good. Not his class, is the point. 

Swordmasters were at their best in fe6 and fe12, while being mediocre or bad in the rest of the games.

Yeah, but that's my point. He's not entirely broken. The weapon makes him broken, but he's still a good unit with his prf.

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7 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

List of 1-2 range swords that can be used by Swordsmasters in later games:

FE9: Runesword and Sonic Sword

FE10: Wind Edge, Storm Sword, Tempest Blade and Alondite

FE13: Levin Sword, Amatsu and Ragnell

 

Seriously, do you even Fire Emblem, bro?

The swords that are bolded are based on magic which swordmasters don't have good stats on except maybe..owain I think.

The problem with swords is unlike Axes and Lances which can be common to buy in shops, there's no ranged sword that can be bought in shops and are mostly rare.

The only few swords that are usable are the ones from FE 10 and 13.

Just for the record, I haven't played FE9 and FE10. Its just that whenever I see comments about units who are swordmasters, the criticism that is most common is lack of ranged weapons and being swordlocked.

Swordmasters were at their best in fe6 and fe12, while being mediocre or bad in the rest of the games.

Idk..FE13 seemed to have great ones like Lon'qu, Stahl and Owain?

Edited by Harvey

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