Thoughts on Faye *spoilers*

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, DaloDask said:

My point is that we shouldn't be asking the localisation to start changing things because at some point you hit the fanfictionalised territory of Fates and I'd rather not experience that mess again.

That's not to say there's nothing wrong with alterations here and there that don't alter the context, tone and intent behind something, but when people experience Fates and see that Soleil has 8 platonic supports it can send the wrong message about her character.

Ok, Fates was just a case of bad localization.

Also, Soleil is a bad example because that was our fault, not the localization's. No one is asking the localization to change Faye's character. Faye being toned down was likely decided long ago, seeing how the release date is so close. Echoes didn't take a year to localize.

Also, "wrong message about her character" what? Soleil prefers girls over guys, that's always been a thing, even in the Japanese version. The platonic Supports show that.

[DaloDask]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Also, "wrong message about her character" what? Soleil prefers girls over guys, that's always been a thing, even in the Japanese version. The platonic Supports show that.

Yes, but a lot of them seem to imply she has some sort of issue in regards to getting with guys, given that the only two where they're left romantic were Corrin, and the 'rewritten from the ground up' Forrest support.

She liked girls, but she also liked guys. She can get with both, but prefers girls.

The issue was simply the fact that there were no same-sex support chains that ended in any sort of romantic sense, which is simply an issue with the game as a whole and its handling of her character. (And my ideas on the matter are simply that she was originally intended to be a same-sex support partner, it was scrapped in development, but they didn't make enough changes to her character to fit that change, making the fact that she can't glaringly obvious.)

[NekoKnight]

As heated as these Faye discussions can get, I'm glad she's no where near as poorly written as Japanese!Soleil. I hope we can all agree Soleil is worse than Faye.

[Baldrick]

11 minutes ago, DaloDask said:

There's nothing wrong with making Clive talk like the suave fancy-man that he is, but where exactly is the line to be drawn? Is the line drawn at her approach to Alm's refusal? Is it altering her ending? Is it changing the fact that she doesn't move on?

I believe any change is OK as long as it preserves the core of the character. For example, Henry putting on a facade to cover up his trauma, even though his outward personality is different between versions. For Faye, I think changing her arc to make her more palatable to a Western audience is fine as long as she's still obsessed with Alm.

[property of nuvelle]

Wow. Yet another Topic talking and defending Faye. I feel like I've seen so many of these.

I'm not against her or a hater really. I just don't care that much for her character. I just don't think she's comparable to Tharja, someone who gets praised for being much worse than her. Faye is also much more pleasing to look at compared to Tharja.

She ISN'T a stalker or creepy in any matter. The only thing saying this is various assumptions, nothing from the game makes her creepy. Faye is meant to be the naive childhood friend who likes protagonist. She likes to talk to Alm and thinks about him quite a lot, and she thinks vocally because she can and so we know her character. I made the point somewhere else on another Faye thread that the advancements she makes on Alm isn't weird. It's not, BECAUSE they've been together for at least I'm guessing around 10 years and Alm sees her as a good friend rather than some freaky paparazzi. She simply wants to have a conversation with the person that she's loved forever. SHE EVEN ACCEPTS THE NO. After Alm kindly rejects her, she states that it was to be expected and if it's okay to stay with him until then. Tharja joins Chrom's army for some reason and begins stalking him with the intent of never letting him know. When she confesses, Robin accepts but still says she'll kill him in his sleep if something happens.

Faye's innocent motives run on her love. Tharja's creepy motives run on her obsession.

Don't like her, whatever. If you think she's annoying, then good for you. Actually, you have more reason to dislike her character than to like. I just feel that her character is no where near that of Tharja.

When I first saw her though, I expected her character to be a mature character with a cute face. Like she would be the most adult-like and righteous of the villager, and her ideals would even end up getting her in trouble. Kind of disappointed I was completely off.

[Tsak]

why are so many people enamored or want to defend this boring character? like i've literally seen nothing that makes her that interesting. I guess she has a great divide between the community between i'd imagine 3 types of people
1. People who like or identify with the character, maybe seeing real life examples of her in their life
2. People who think she is really creepy and genuinely childish
3. People who don't care she even exists
I probably fall with group 3 because her design and overall feel as a character to me personally is irrelevant. I've even witnessed versions of her in real life, but it doesn't make her an interesting character.
Let me make a comparison to a character i feel is more fleshed out and interesting in the same game
Python!
Despite most of his interactions being with Forsyth, he doesn't fall into the same trap Faye does. Manages to be his own fleshed out character, and his redesign is actually pretty good. Python is from the very beginning shown to be relatively lackadaisical and Forsyth is there to get him to put in some sort of effort. But he doesn't need Forsyth to be a character, he exists without him. Even his interaction initially with Alm was pretty funny. 

for the TLDR: Faye is boring, Python isn't

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Tsak said:

why are so many people enamored or want to defend this boring character? 

Because they can. Oh and also

2 hours ago, Tsak said:

boring character? like i've literally seen nothing that makes her that interesting.

That applies to like, 70-90% of Fire Emblem's characters when you really stop and think about it. And a lot of those characters in that range happen to be fan-favorites. ChibiToastExplosion already made an example of that with Navarre. So the question is this: what determines whether a character is interesting or not? The anwser: you, the player, does. I mean, i like Faye and I don't really find her to be that boring. On the other hand, i find Sigurd, one of the most popular Lords in the series, to be boring. Why? Because that's how I see it. A lot of you may disagree with me on Sigurd but it's a good thing we have opinions.

Adding on to this, let's say I do find Faye to be boring. I can still like her. And on the other end of that coin, let's say i find Sigurd to be interesting. I can still not like him. Why? Because there's no rule that states that boring characters have to be disliked and interesting characters have to be loved. Now of course, a boring character is more likely to be disliked and vice versa.

Basically, what makes a character "interesting" or "boring" is all a matter of perspective.

[Tsak]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Because they can. Oh and also

That applies to like, 70-90% of Fire Emblem's characters when you really stop and think about it. And a lot of those characters in that range happen to be fan-favorites.

Sure, every character can't be well written and crucial to each story. But people aren't randomly going out of their way to express their hatred or rally to defense of many of these characters.
Faye in particular seems to have some sort of community focus that i can't really explain. (could be because everyone is anxious to get their hands on the game?)

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

ChibiToastExplosion already made an example of that with Navarre. So the question is this: what determines whether a character is interesting or not? The anwser: you, the player, does. I mean, i like Faye and I don't really find her to be that boring.

Sure, Navarre mostly doesn't even get much story time besides just the general mythos of him. He's created some sort of legend as a fighter, regardless of whether hes a well designed character he still has that going for him. But yes ultimately what draws people to characters is important, and opinion i understand this. But Faye seems to be so divisive? Like i missed the hype train for her as well? I just don't see why people have so many ups and downs with such a random character. She gets more talk in most outlets then Alm or the antagonists do half the time.

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

On the other hand, i find Sigurd, one of the most popular Lords in the series, to be boring. Why? Because that's how I see it. A lot of you may disagree with me on Sigurd but it's a good thing we have opinions.

Meh Sigurd is popular? maybe if you really enjoyed genealogy? I get what you're saying, opinions opinions etc. I don't really find Sigurd to be too much of an interesting character, just a Lord in the wrong place at the right time. Maybe watching him die was more interesting? Certainly ruffled a lot of peoples feathers... tough to watch all that time and dedication get roasted

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Adding on to this, let's say I do find Faye to be boring. I can still like her.

Sure why not? Doesn't mean you can defend her character design. Even the producers in an interview said that Alm's side just had too many guys, needed to be a little evened out.

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

And on the other end of that coin, let's say i find Sigurd to be interesting. I can still not like him.

Definitely makes it harder lol

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Why? Because there's no rule that states that boring characters have to be disliked and interesting characters have to be loved. Now of course, a boring character is more likely to be disliked and vice versa.

Basically, what makes a character "interesting" or "boring" is all a matter of perspective.

Sure, didn't say there was. Its just a topic on Faye and people are fighting about it. again, just throwing my 2 cents in.
To be completely fair it's not like I'm not gonna use her, i want an extra cleric. If anything she has more of a chance to change my mind, because my expectations of her are so low or just nonexistent. If she dies and im out of turnwheel i'll still probably restart to keep her alive. Like i don't hate the character, I just don't really care about her in general besides gameplay-wise. That's ok, there is tons of characters and they're not all gonna be appealing. And you're right what makes a character interesting or boring is all a matter of perspective. Fact is Faye wasn't made with love and it shows

[Silverdawn77]

17 hours ago, Tsak said:

 

Sure, didn't say there was. Its just a topic on Faye and people are fighting about it. again, just throwing my 2 cents in.
To be completely fair it's not like I'm not gonna use her, i want an extra cleric. If anything she has more of a chance to change my mind, because my expectations of her are so low or just nonexistent. If she dies and im out of turnwheel i'll still probably restart to keep her alive. Like i don't hate the character, I just don't really care about her in general besides gameplay-wise. That's ok, there is tons of characters and they're not all gonna be appealing. And you're right what makes a character interesting or boring is all a matter of perspective. Fact is Faye wasn't made with love and it shows

Faye is only getting talked about because people had ideas in their heads bout her personality before she was revealed and it wasn't what they thought, as someone pointed out. when people have a preconceived idea about something, and then it turns out that that it isnt what they thought, they tend to take it negatively. its just how people work, its normal.

personally i don't mind her character at all. i feel she plays an important part in the overall metaphor the game presents us with, and your free to dissagree with that but wether intended or not people have noticed what she CAN represent as stagnation and the negative traits of Rigel. 

i also wholly agree with the comparison of her and Mallicia, as they are almost the same role wise.

and lets be honest, like maybe 5% of fire emblem characters that you get in your party (as in not villains) have anything resembling a unique personality, deep backstory or more than 1 character trait. hell in the first 5 games they barley had any personality at all. and except lords after a unit got their intro dialog they usually never said anything again, so i don't get this sudden ''this character is one note'' cuz fam they ALL ARE. even catria, her personality is she has a crush on Marth and she has sisters.... wow so deep, marths personality is hell tiki and nowi have basically the same personality when tiki is younger, or they would if tiki had more than a few lines in the game she shows up in. i just don't get it

Edited April 29, 2017 by Silverdawn77

[Armagon]

17 hours ago, Tsak said:

But people aren't randomly going out of their way to express their hatred or rally to defense of many of these characters.
Faye in particular seems to have some sort of community focus that i can't really explain.

Well this thread is dedicated to her so...

17 hours ago, Tsak said:

Sure why not? Doesn't mean you can defend her character design. Even the producers in an interview said that Alm's side just had too many guys, needed to be a little evened out.

17 hours ago, Tsak said:

Fact is Faye wasn't made with love and it shows

"I also wanted to add some uncertainty to otherwise predictable elements. In this case, she is a loving childhood friend with Alm, even though Alm himself shares his special (and mutual) connection to Celica. We want players to enjoy learning more about what kind of girl she is."

She was made with a little bit more thought than just "Alm has too many guys" though that is one of the reasons.

17 hours ago, Tsak said:

But Faye seems to be so divisive?

I mean, she is, but nowhere near the level of divisiveness that was Japanese Soleil. Faye really is divisive but only because people had high hopes for her.

8 minutes ago, Silverdawn77 said:

even catria, her personality is she has a crush on abel

Um....it's Marth who she has a crush on.

[Silverdawn77]

Just now, Armagon said:

 

Um....it's Marth who she has a crush on.

oh, i might be thinking of palla, oh well, i still stand by my point

[pinguyFrank]

Personally i'm pretty fine with Faye as a unit and a character but at the same time i think she has the traits to fill the role of  "Controversial Character" that we been experienced in the latest entries of the franchise.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, pinguyFrank said:

Personally i'm pretty fine with Faye as a unit and a character but at the same time i think she has the traits to fill the role of  "Controversial Character" that we been experienced in the latest entries of the franchise.

Maybe but not really. Faye's controversial but very mildly controversial. 

[Pixelman]

23 hours ago, Tsak said:

Fact is Faye wasn't made with love and it shows

What the fuck are you talking about, is this a joke?

"Not made with love?" Can you expound upon this thought?

Edited April 30, 2017 by Pixelman

[Tsak]

1 minute ago, Pixelman said:

What the fuck are you talking about, is this a joke?

"Not made with love?" Can you expound upon this thought?

 

Because she will never get her husbando Alm. His destiny is with Celica ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Pixelman]

1 minute ago, Tsak said:

Because she will never get her husbando Alm. His destiny is with Celica ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RIP

That's true, kek

[Ronman5]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 7:36 AM, Pitchkart said:

I'd like to add my two cents to this conversation. 

Faye's problem has never been that she has a thing for Alm (though with Clair in the story, it's pretty redundant). It's that it's the *only* thing she has going for her. 

I understand that with Echoes the developers wanted to appeal to older fans' nostalgia of the series, but I don't have a fondness for a time when the sole defining factor of a woman is how her world revolves around a man in writing.

I'm not saying every woman needs to be STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN WHO NEEDS NO STINKIN MAN, but it would be nice if there was a little more to Faye than being thirsty for Alm.

Damn.. your not going to like Leon then...