Thane's non-spoilery thoughts on the gameplay

[The DanMan]

4 hours ago, Thane said:

Excalibur + Magic Ring, brah. Sonya doesn't what Deenot!

Sonya's 6/7 levels off promoting and you've already got 3 other mages (counting Celica). Deen's two levels off the second best class in the game, comes with the Brave Sword, and has good all-round growths. Yeah, you've still got 3 other mercs, but DF is great and Jesse isn't really competition.
I'm in camp Deen all the way.

 

[B.Leu]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

Sonya's 6/7 levels off promoting and you've already got 3 other mages (counting Celica). Deen's two levels off the second best class in the game, comes with the Brave Sword, and has good all-round growths. Yeah, you've still got 3 other mercs, but DF is great and Jesse isn't really competition.
I'm in camp Deen all the way.

 

TheDanMan ! Neither Jakob or Edward, he's all for Deen. :p
Sorry, I needed that.

But you know, Celica make a solid fighter I mean... she is a Mage Fighter after all. (before it was cool, wink wink, shout out.)
Then again, I supposed it's all up to... tastes....

...good grief, there's so much out of context jokes that can be made, we could be in Jojo.

[Baldrick]

7 hours ago, Thane said:

  Hide contents

They've purposefully got low Defense...but ridiculous Speed. Basically, it's bows or bust, as they've got good Resistances, too. At least the ones I'm referring to right now.

 

That reminds me of FE12, which I think managed to straddle the line between being a pushover and being BS, so I feel cautiously optimistic about it.

Does the hidden level still exist in Alm's path? It'd making grinding a lot quicker, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been relegated to DLC.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Baldrick

[Namarid]

The hints you talked about in regards to Kliff's and Tobin's class promotions, is there anything like that for Gray and Faye. 

Sounds like chapter 6 is supposed to be an endgame challenge that you take on after large amounts of grinding rather than an extra chapter that you can simply hop into. I guess chapter 6 will only be good for one playthrough and it's best to reset after beating chapter 5.

[Thane]

10 hours ago, Baldrick said:

That reminds me of FE12, which I think managed to straddle the line between being a pushover and being BS, so I feel cautiously optimistic about it.

Well, I mean sure, if you like grinding and not being able to save. Seeing how much people hated not being able to save between the last two maps of Fates, I can only imagine the outcry here where your units aren't even tuned for the challenge.

[Armagon]

Just now, Thane said:

Well, I mean sure, if you like grinding and not being able to save. Seeing how much people hated not being able to save between the last two maps of Fates, I can only imagine the outcry here where your units aren't even tuned for the challenge.

I imagine the outcry will be less though, considering that by then, you've already completed the main story and Ch.6 is simply an optional post-game. Whereas in Fates, you had to get past the "no saving" thing to complete the main story (this was torture on Conquest).

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I imagine the outcry will be less though, considering that by then, you've already completed the main story and Ch.6 is simply an optional post-game. Whereas in Fates, you had to get past the "no saving" thing to complete the main story (this was torture on Conquest).

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I know that after going through those ten floors, I'll get miffed if I have to start over because the boss is just such bullshit. Keep in mind you lose all progress, and given how poorly you control and see when exploring, it's hard to avoid long-winded battles.

[Armagon]

6 minutes ago, Thane said:

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I know that after going through those ten floors, I'll get miffed if I have to start over because the boss is just such bullshit. Keep in mind you lose all progress, and given how poorly you control and see when exploring, it's hard to avoid long-winded battles.

Ok, now i'm just getting Pokemon Mystery Dungeon vibes from this. Actually........that's a very good comparison. In Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky, the post-game dungeon would be 100 floors long with no save points (and if there were, it'd be like at floor 50 and that's it). And the reason this is a very good comparison is because both Mystery Dungeon and the dungeons in Echoes have Fatigue (Hunger for Mystery Dungeon). The difference there is that (aside from Mystery Dungeon's dungeons being randomly generated each time), Fatigue is easily curable from what I hear, since the game practically throws food at you whereas Hunger is easily curable only if you have a damn good supply of food, which is tough considering that the post-game dungeons have 100 floors, and you get hungry pretty easily, and that's NOT counting the Monster Houses that can randomly spawn. And of course, the enemies are really strong. The difference being in Mystery Dungeon, it's sometimes hard to position yourself to attack whereas it's much easier in Echoes.

...Suddenly, Echoes Ch.6 feels tame in comparison. Sure, the enemies can be stupidly strong, but at least it's not Mystery Dungeon's post-game 100-floor dungeons, in which you have to not only keep track of Hunger, but also how much PP your moves have left, making sure you have enough items to cure Hunger and restore PP, as well as having HP-restoring and status-effect curing items, all while making sure you don't get rekt by the Monster House that you had no idea would be there, as well as remembering type-advantage.

I love me a good Pokemon Mystery Dungeon but from what i'm hearing, i'd much rather have Echoes Ch.6 over Mystery Dungeon's post-game dungeons. Because at least Echoes Ch.6 only has 10 floors.

[Thane]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Suddenly, Echoes Ch.6 feels tame in comparison.

If that's how you'll feel, great. I won't pretend to have a good time by saying "other games are worse".

[Armagon]

Just now, Thane said:

If that's how you'll feel, great. I won't pretend to have a good time by saying "other games are worse".

Yeah, I understand. It was mainly just me discovering the similarities between Ch.6 and Mystery Dungeon.

[Indifferent]

I tried to do Chapter 6 without grinding my units to death and I had to pray I made it out alive from the final Sea map onwards. Having to rely on your glass cannon protagonist Celica and the one unit you shamefully dread looped is literal hell. You aren't even completely safe with a looped unit because of this game's nonexistent RES growths. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Indifferent

[Thane]

25 minutes ago, Indifferent said:

I tried to do Chapter 6 without grinding my units to death and I had to pray I made it out alive from the final Sea map onwards. Having to rely on your glass cannon protagonist Celica and the one unit you shamefully dread looped is literal hell. You aren't even completely safe with a looped unit because of this game's nonexistent RES growths. 

Spoiler

I was surprised when I got to that map because the maps leading up to it were nothing special, and I had only heard about what a breeze the game was. Then all of a sudden in come both reinforcements and dragons which ignore your Defense. On such a small map. I mean what?

Anyway, I beat chapter 6, though for some reason, and I have absolutely no idea why, it ignored all of my summoned units literally ONCE and killed one of my real characters. A small price to pay for completing it though.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Thane said:

Anyway, I beat chapter 6, though for some reason, and I have absolutely no idea why, it ignored all of my summoned units literally ONCE and killed one of my real characters. A small price to pay for completing it though.

Who was the unlucky soul?

Edited April 29, 2017 by Armagon

[Thane]

Just now, Armagon said:

Who was the unlucky victim?

Ironically, Sonya. You hear that, @ChibiToastExplosion?

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 hours ago, Thane said:

Ironically, Sonya. You hear that, @ChibiToastExplosion?

She had it comin', Deen would have Deendodged it with his agility :p

probably not though, I have no idea

But, congrats on finishing it! See, not a ton of grinding, just smart play. And a Sonya sacrifice.

[Thane]

Just now, ChibiToastExplosion said:

But, congrats on finishing it! See, not a ton of grinding, just smart play. And a Sonya sacrifice.

If by "smart play" you mean " consistently exploiting the AI", then sure. I would've much rather have had an opportunity to actually use strategy in a strategy game.

I did think of you when Sonya died though. Imagine my surprise when the boss actually attacked one of my units only once, and it was her. It was literally the first time an enemy in the sixth chapter an enemy attacked a unit that wasn't an illusion even though they were in range.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

5 minutes ago, Thane said:

If by "smart play" you mean " consistently exploiting the AI", then sure. I would've much rather have had an opportunity to actually use strategy in a strategy game.

I did think of you when Sonya died though. Imagine my surprise when the boss actually attacked one of my units only once, and it was her. It was literally the first time an enemy in the sixth chapter an enemy attacked a unit that wasn't an illusion even though they were in range.

I am in your game, getting vengeance for Deen.

And yeah, if that's a valid strategy, that is the strategy. Welcome to the NES/Famicom, I love it. I love the 1p war against the machine, and it sure as hell cheats so you should too.

Does it make you feel, "dirty, less of a player?" That's crap elitists tell new players because they think their more "sophisticated" strategy is better. Tell me, in this case for chapter 6, did you really want the AI to have Conquest AI? Not with those stats from the sound of it.

Maybe all those summons were flipping the monsters the bird.

[Indifferent]

12 minutes ago, Thane said:

If by "smart play" you mean " consistently exploiting the AI", then sure. I would've much rather have had an opportunity to actually use strategy in a strategy game.

I did think of you when Sonya died though. Imagine my surprise when the boss actually attacked one of my units only once, and it was her. It was literally the first time an enemy in the sixth chapter an enemy attacked a unit that wasn't an illusion even though they were in range.

I think if your unit's HP is below a certain point they'll go for it, it happened to Genny a few times for me, specifically, that one archer in the front of Grieth's Fortress attacked her instead of the 3/4 summonings that were in his attack range. This AI is pretty wack.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Indifferent

[Thane]

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Does it make you feel, "dirty, less of a player?" That's crap elitists tell new players because they think their more "sophisticated" strategy is better. Tell me, in this case for chapter 6, did you really want the AI to have Conquest AI? Not with those stats from the sound of it.

No. It made it feel like less of a strategy game. I wanted a proper challenge, with proper maps and proper AI. 

If I cared what elitists said, Awakening wouldn't be my favorite Fire Emblem game.

1 minute ago, Indifferent said:

I think if your unit's HP is below a certain point they'll go for it,

Very unlikely, seeing as Genny was within range at lower HP than Sonya, and I've literally put her right next to enemies while summoning illusions and she gets ignored in favor of them. The same thing has happened to Celica, who had 10 HP and was poisoned. 

I don't know what could've possibly triggered Sonya getting attacked; it goes against the pattern I've tried most likely over a 100 times now.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, Thane said:

No. It made it feel like less of a strategy game. I wanted a proper challenge, with proper maps and proper AI. 

If I cared what elitists said, Awakening wouldn't be my favorite Fire Emblem game.

Well, that's good, because if I'm being brutally honest I've always loved the mechanics and the maps and intended strategy of Gaiden better than Awakening's - so this is a weird complaint to me. I don't judge, however.

Gaiden's strategy was all about proper spacing, knowing how many attacks everyone could take and always preparing for the worst case scenario using positioning and terrain. Would it have been possible to summon units and position them in a way that would have prevented an attack on all of your other units, you just didn't because you assumed they would just attack the summons? To quote a myrmidon I'm fond of, "Don't get careless".

Play the game on hard, from what I hear normal is just Gaiden-lite anyway, and hard is closer to the original experience. It's not a hard game, but which Fire Emblem games are truly difficult? Having played them all, they are all abusable in some way, Gaiden was definitely not an exception.

Also, you should play advance wars. That's IS' real strategy game.

[Tamanoir]

Chapter 6 seems to make a pretty strong point for Casual Mode.

Do you still have a usable revive shrine ? Or maybe you don't care since the game is cleared now...

Edited April 29, 2017 by Tamanoir

[Armagon]

25 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I love the 1p war against the machine, and it sure as hell cheats so you should too.

*Insert Mega Man pause glitch montage here*

 

13 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

but which Fire Emblem games are truly difficult?

Awakening on Lunatic+. But that's just fake difficulty, so i wouldn't really count it.

 

3 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

Chapter 6 seems to make a pretty strong point for Casual Mode.

Do you still have a usable revive screen, ? Or maybe you don't care since the game is cleared now...

Revive screen? What? All Casual Mode does is prevent your units from being permanently lost. I haven't played Causal Mode since my second Awakening run (my first was an Iron Man run and that didn't go well) so i could be missing something. Thane probably played on Classic though.

[Tamanoir]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

*Revive screen? What? All Casual Mode does is prevent your units from being permanently lost. I haven't played Causal Mode since my second Awakening run (my first was an Iron Man run and that didn't go well) so i could be missing something. Thane probably played on Classic though.

I meant Revive Shrine for Thane (since he uses Classic, and it's the only way to have a unit back for him.)

[Armagon]

Just now, Tamanoir said:

I meant Revive Shrine for Thane (since he uses Classic, and it's the only way to have a unit back for him.)

Oh that. I suppose he could use it, but since he already beat Ch.6, he has no reason to.

[Indifferent]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Oh that. I suppose he could use it, but since he already beat Ch.6, he has no reason to.

I mean....DLC? :|

 

 

RIP Sonya