Heroes Story Discussion

[r_n]

So it came up in the ask thread about how no one really talks about the story and so on. The story isn't intense or that detailed just by necessity of a game that will need to last years, but it is there and some people care about it surely?

Like it, hate it, indifferent, what it could do better, whatever it could all go here.

I think it's fine. The new characters are all decent enough, I dig how Anna is the commander of them and keeps them in line, the others have their moments. Shareena has fun dialog in general. Story wise yeah it's pretty bare bones but it's all an overarching excuse to fight everyone from the games so I think it does it's job pretty well. 

The last set of maps revealed ??? is supposedly Bruno. Personally I still think he's "zach" and is just possessed by Bruno, the mysterious demon that possess people of a "certain blood line". At the very least the Bruno in 10-3 is possessed considering the total personality change and even Alfonse was like "wait but--" before heading into battle. If there's a twist here I think it will wind up being Zach has always been emblan royalty but hangs out with the askr to the point that most didn't really know of him.

[Michelaar]

I disagree on the fact that Bruno is the same person as Zacharias. It just makes no sense for me how he is able to turn back and forth. I suppose it is possible, but I hope he isn't. More oc characters would be great.

 

Plus, Bruno is a magic user and Zacharias is a lancer.

[r_n]

7 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I disagree on the fact that Bruno is the same person as Zacharias. It just makes no sense for me how he is able to turn back and forth. I suppose it is possible, but I hope he isn't. More oc characters would be great.

 

Plus, Bruno is a magic user and Zacharias is a lancer.

I'd be fine with being wrong and Zach being distinct (I really like all the new designs), but the magic/lance thing doesn't convince me. Time has passed and there could be all sorts of reasons to give up the lance. I also got the feeling that the Fensalir Sharena uses was from Zach, so maybe he literally gave up the lance?

As an aside, I kind of expect there to be a red tome villain introduced at some point. They should probably introduce a few more villains in general; not a lot, but someone to break up the veronica/bruno show?

[Ronman5]

28 minutes ago, r_n said:

I'd be fine with being wrong and Zach being distinct (I really like all the new designs), but the magic/lance thing doesn't convince me. Time has passed and there could be all sorts of reasons to give up the lance. I also got the feeling that the Fensalir Sharena uses was from Zach, so maybe he literally gave up the lance?

As an aside, I kind of expect there to be a red tome villain introduced at some point. They should probably introduce a few more villains in general; not a lot, but someone to break up the veronica/bruno show?

That's probally going to be the "Demon" who controls Bruno...

 

But yeah his personality does a 180 and my guess is after one of the paralogs or Xenologs where his character acts much darker...

 

My question is Alfonse, and crew summoned Zach.. so is Zach a hero that is currently known? (like a mistranslation of Zeke?) or perhaps a brand new character from the two other games with no info? (Warriors and Switch)

[r_n]

6 minutes ago, Ronman5 said:

That's probally going to be the "Demon" who controls Bruno...

 

But yeah his personality does a 180 and my guess is after one of the paralogs or Xenologs where his character acts much darker...

 

My question is Alfonse, and crew summoned Zach.. so is Zach a hero that is currently known? (like a mistranslation of Zeke?) or perhaps a brand new character from the two other games with no info? (Warriors and Switch)

I forgot about that detail, so I went looking through the wiki

Sharena: Oh, you. Don't be prickly. You think that only because you were once very close to a Hero. And THAT one left to go home.

Some time ago, we lost a member of the Order of Heroes whose name was Zacharias. Zacharias was a bold fighter and great comrade. Then one day, he vanished during a battle. We've searched for him, but to no avail

Anna: Perhaps you're thinking about what troubles me, too. Our missing comrade, Zacharias. The further we get, the more it bothers me how Zacharias is nowhere to be found. I hate losing anyone, but it hits Alfonse and Sharena harder. They were all friends since childhood.

It sounds more like Zach is totally separate from the hero they summoned and alfonse got close to (who is probably just a random game character, i bet we'll meet them eventually). Sharena certainly talks about the hero went back home a lot more differently than Zacharias, who was lost in a skirmish in Awakening.

 

also may as well throw out this line for the pile

???: I am not with Embla. Nor am I with you. Still, I'll say it one last time. Turn back-NOW.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I don't care for Anna. It seems 80% of her dialogue involves "we've got trouble" or "we'll talk about it later, we've gotta head back". The ending to 10-5 even gets ridiculous when everybody has already passed through the gate, and then she hurries everybody to once again head for the gate just so she can cut off another stimulating conversation.

The best bit of story probably stems from the FE7 paralogue if I'm remembering right. A glimpse into Veronica and Bruno's relationship and what's wrong with her. It even makes good use of Elibean lore when Bruno studies tomes written by Brammimond. Good name drop.

[Sire]

For the previous topic and its insights, see here.

As for the Masked Man, my initial theory was that he was always Zacharias. This is most apparent in the main story, chapters 1-9. The only thing that threw off the theory was that the datamined name for the Masked Man was Bruno (which we now know is his "true identity"). Then I started doing some more digging and ended up with this analysis. Long story short, I still believe Bruno and Zacharias are exactly the same person.

Come on, Bruno makes an apparent 180 and starts attacking Askr in 10-3, but then suddenly Zacharias shows up to save the day at 10-5. A part of me really wants to say Bruno is "acting the part" (with some of the curse's influence) instead of actually believing in what he says and does during 10-3.

* * * * *

I have to agree the best story bit in Heroes is the Blazing Shadows Paralogue (the FE7 Paralogue) because it focus on character interaction and actually progresses the story instead of the usual "Oh no, they did 'x!' We have to stop them now! // Good job team! We the best!" // Honestly, the Paralogues had some of the better writing moments than the main story, although it too had its moments (there was too much fluff, but Heroes is more about the gameplay and collecting characters than the story.)

As for characters, I also have to agree with Gustavos saying that Heroes Anna sucks. Sharena is a fluffy ball of optimism while Alfonse has some backstory with Zacharias. The Masked Man is currently the most interesting character, and Veronica might be the second due to the Blazing Shadows paralogue showing a different side to her.

[r_n]

Oh shoot, I didn't realize there was another topic about this. I saw it show up in the ask thread and assumed there just wasn't one going. My bad

I do agree Masked Man & Veronica are the most interesting since they're the ones the plot centers around. The askr trio are reactionary and cleaning up messes, so we don't get a lot of stuff focused on them outside their usual traits (anna's commanding, sharena's optimism, alfonse being a grump due to the whole zach thing). The only time I can think of where they took action first was going back to Awakening to search for Zach. Which, again, fine for what this game is actually about and half hte story maps veronica isnt even there to begin with.

Basically every paralogue except the spring festival is about that Veronica is extremely lonely. Bruno is barely around, the kingdom is in disarray, pretty sure the kingdom doesnt care for her that much, all these other worlds are full of strong family bonds and meanwhile she's delighted to share even a single cup of tea

[NekoKnight]

I know we can't expect that much from a gaccha game for story but I don't care for how they handled Veronica. She's an evil, gloating brat for most of the story and then they reveal "lol jk, she's actually just possessed and ronery". Color me surprised if there isn't a evil dragon behind it all.

I think the story would be better if other characters were allowed to do anything. Every non-Heroes character basically shows up to say they are bound to a contract by Veronica and by the end of their world, they're free and we never see them again. Outside of Xander (lol), there aren't any characters who are willingly working with her or have any agency of their own. 

A gaccha game should have more of a "the adventure continues" approach to indefinitely drawing out the story. Heros' approach so far has been "literally nothing happens" rinse and repeat.

[Ronman5]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 8:20 PM, NekoKnight said:

I know we can't expect that much from a gaccha game for story but I don't care for how they handled Veronica. She's an evil, gloating brat for most of the story and then they reveal "lol jk, she's actually just possessed and ronery". Color me surprised if there isn't a evil dragon behind it all.

I think the story would be better if other characters were allowed to do anything. Every non-Heroes character basically shows up to say they are bound to a contract by Veronica and by the end of their world, they're free and we never see them again. Outside of Xander (lol), there aren't any characters who are willingly working with her or have any agency of their own. 

A gaccha game should have more of a "the adventure continues" approach to indefinitely drawing out the story. Heros' approach so far has been "literally nothing happens" rinse and repeat.

Its Fire emblem... 90% of the Final Bosses are Dragons, Deities, or god like Demons (literally the only non applicable ones are FE 4 (although not technically, Julius is controlled by the evil dragon Loptyr by blood) FE 5, and Fe 9 (albeit Ashnard was controlled again though a deity, and in hard mode is granted powers..)

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Ronman5 said:

Its Fire emblem... 90% of the Final Bosses are Dragons, Deities, or god like Demons (literally the only non applicable ones are FE 4 (although not technically, Julius is controlled by the evil dragon Loptyr by blood) FE 5, and Fe 9 (albeit Ashnard was controlled again though a deity, and in hard mode is granted powers..)

I know, but it's not like they can't break away from series conventions from time to time. "An evil dragon is behind it" is about as generic a plot as I can imagine.

[bethany81707]

New story chapter, new questions: did Bruno kill Zacharias after the weird plot point from Chapter 10? What was the point of the chapter we just witnessed outside of the Doylist "Let's you and Celica fight"?

[NekoKnight]

13 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

New story chapter, new questions: did Bruno kill Zacharias after the weird plot point from Chapter 10? What was the point of the chapter we just witnessed outside of the Doylist "Let's you and Celica fight"?

I thought they were trying to mislead you and the truth is that Bruno is Zacharias and he's just lying about killing him. How pointless would it be if Zacharias was dead the whole time?

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

I thought they were trying to mislead you and the truth is that Bruno is Zacharias and he's just lying about killing him. How pointless would it be if Zacharias was dead the whole time?

...So wait, if Zacharias was dead all along... did we go to the Underworld?

Did we go to the Underworld in a mobile instalment? Is that what the Permadeath mode will be about?

...Or it can turn out that Bruno and Zacharias are the same person. Either way is good.

[Vaximillian]

15 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

did Bruno kill Zacharias after the weird plot point from Chapter 10?

My speculation is that Bruno killed Zach just like Arthas killed Ner'zhul. I sort of dig the possession idea from the beginning of the thread.

Bruno's persona overtook Zach's and got rid of it. Or not.

[Cute Chao]

Yup, I pretty much have no doubt Bruno and Zach are one and the same. Like Vax says, I'm betting he's either struggling with several personas and Zacs has been buried deep down, or he's just refusing to admit he knows them for... reasons. Since he asked them to kill him, he is trying to enrage them enough to do so, by the looks of it.

I hope both he and Veronica get saved -.- I want them as units - especially him :D

[The_antithesis]

Well, I don't care much for the storyline, as gameplay is what I'm here for. Thus, I'm indifferent on whether Bruno is Zacharias or not etc.

Now, if you want a good story in Heroes, check out the voting gauntlet. Julia Vs Tharja is insane because Tharja is in the lead but Julia has a butt-ton of unused flags for the next X3.

[Sire]

As far as I am concerned, Bruno is so set on saying "Zacharias is dead or gone!" that it simply strengthens my belief that they are the same individual (Bruno = Zacharias = Masked Man)

Remember, not everything a character says is the outright truth. I think Bruno (Zacharias) is just trying to mislead the party in the event he does eventually succumb to the curse and is "truly gone." As long as Bruno keeps some of his sanity, "Zacharias" will be around to save the day. When Bruno's sanity expires, so does "Zacharias."

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sire

[Nightmayre]

Well personally for me it'd be a great shock if Bruno wasn't Zacharias (and would also be a terrible "reverse-plot twist" unless it's written really well)

But what bothers me more is how linear the story is. We've literally established the core of the plot from day 1, and until now, despite the numerous chapters, we've made a grand total of 0 progress towards that goal, and no other plot element has been introduced, besides a tiny bit of insight on the two(!) antagonists we've met. Yeah, like, gacha game and all, but come on...

Edited May 15, 2017 by Nightmayre

[BANRYU]

2 hours ago, Nightmayre said:

Well personally for me it'd be a great shock if Bruno wasn't Zacharias (and would also be a terrible "reverse-plot twist" unless it's written really well)

But what bothers me more is how linear the story is. We've literally established the core of the plot from day 1, and until now, despite the numerous chapters, we've made a grand total of 0 progress towards that goal, and no other plot element has been introduced, besides a tiny bit of insight on the two(!) antagonists we've met. Yeah, like, gacha game and all, but come on...

I mean.... that'd be the truth of it though, wouldn't it? I had pretty low expectations of the story personally (if it even had one) so I don't really care that much lol. 

Personally I've been convinced that Bruno is in fact Zacharias pretty much since day one, all the more so after finishing the Rite of Shadows chapters lol. 'uhuhuhuhu you can't talk to Zacharias because I killed him just now lolol' seems AWFULLY convenient, don't you guys think? (and uhh, the fact that Brunette shows up right when they're trying to contact Zacky-boy?) Also, there's the matter of his wording: 'I killed him before coming here.' That seems deliberately vague, as he doesn't specify where 'here' is; obviously it's assumed the location of the battle, but maybe he's talking about a metaphorical 'killing' of the Zach identity or some bullshit, who knows. All I know is that all of Bruno's dialogue in the initial story about Z-man is a pretty big Chekov's Gun waiting to be fired and it'd be pretty pointless if they drew so much attention to it without shooting it off lol. It's obvious that those two have some kind of connection regardless, even if you don't want to buy the theory that they're the same person.

Incidentally, there's also all the nonsense about Creme Brulee being all 'not himself' and the one paralogue where he asks EvilLoligirl (whose real name I forget offhand) if she's been feeling weird, which seems like he's testing her for the same problems. I'm sensing a case of Usurped by Ganon/Fomortiis syndrome where there's some kind of hidden demon badguy antagonist pulling the strings behind the scenes somewhere that we'll see eventually. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by BANRYU

[Lushen]

I think Zacharias is Bruno.  I think his 'soul' is lost in the other world you got stuck in for a second while in the main realm his body is being controlled by a demon.  

Either way, Zacharias is not dead.  We never saw his face, no way they would introduce a character and kill him off before we even saw him.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Lushen

[Luxian]

Well the probability that Zacharias and Bruno are the same is undeniable. The fact that Masked Man said he did not side with Askr or Embla, and the fact his face is conveniently kept a secret are ways too obvious... Not to mention if Zacharias is Bruno, then Zacharias DID answer the call during the rite,...

I feel like his Bruno persona is consuming him and which is why he "killed" Zacharias... And the more I think about this, the more I find him more similarities with Lyon. If Zacharias is Bruno, then he is friend with the two sibling lords, and ended up being possessed by something else, and he is said too be super kind IIRC.

I might be completely wrong but my theory is that, rather than Bruno being Zacharias, it is more like Zacharias is Prince Bruno who knew about the curse on Emblian royals and fled to Askr to escape it and befriended Alfonse and Sharena there under the name of Zacharias to stay anonymous (IIRC the war between Embla and Askr so he'd better stay anonymous). However, he noticed Veronica fell victim to the curse, and he couldn't bear watching her like this and suddenly went back to Embla to accept the curse instead of his sister. And, if that is true, the curse on Veronica could alleviate a little, and maybe she'll be able to talk normally to Sharena and Alfonse, and maybe ask them to help Bruno as Bruno and Veronica's role have switched.... And that concludes my farfetched theory.

Another possibility could be that there is some sort of Pandora Box that shouldn't be seen/touched/read or anything and Veronica showed it to Zach, which caused to brainwash him into Prince Bruno who is forged from Veronica's will of not being alone anymore.

But, there is one thing that bothers me, whether these theories hold water or not... At the end of the World of Radiance, we barely escaped because the door closed. At first, I was under the assumption that Veronica closed the door because she was mad and wanted to seald the Askrian forever there. Now, I start to believe it was Bruno who closed the door, probably at Veronica's request or on his own volition, but I can't figure his motive in the latter. Besides, why would he seal the royals since he wants them dead? Anynay, now here is the riddle: Emblian royals close doors and Askrian royals open doors. Apparently, gates can't be opened from inside the world, or the royals wouldn't have rushed out of the World of Radiance. Then if Zacharias is Bruno, how come he could have escaped the World of Radiance? Unless he somehow learned the technique of Askrians of opening gates, he couldn't have opened it from inside... And there has been no mention of Askrians opening the gate, and it would be unwise of them to open it again because it was there goal to close the doors since Embla didn't want to clase them anymore, and keeping it open is like asking Veronica to put the "strongest hero of all times" into contract again. I found Chapter 10 to be pretty confusing regarding this actually.

[Sire]

Gonna bump this topic back to the front page (last post here was May 15, featuring the World of Radiance) instead of making a new one every new story release. This way we can keep track of previous theories and discussions in the same topic instead of having to link to it every single time. Of course, if a mod disagrees, then a new topic can be made and this one locked.

So, this time around we have a new Xenologue, The Brink of Chaos! This is another one that is a highlight of storytelling compared to other maps (Blazing Shadows and Detached Princess were also good!). What occurs is briefly outlined below.

1. We finally get Veronica to acknowledge that Bruno (the Masked Man) is her brother. We already know of this, but now the audience knows Veronica acknowledges it.
2. However, it seems we have an imposter, Loki, posing as Bruno as Loki talks about the Tempest (since the real Bruno is away, likely searching for a cure as usual). Some speculate Loki is Loptyr, but as I am unfamiliar with Loptyr's source game, I can not comment on this.
3. We get in-universe justification on why the Tempest Trials are a thing.
4. Masked Marth shows up, says some lines, and runs off to save the day.
5. The Tempest itself is a maelstrom of chaos that essentially tears apart the barriers between worlds, lumping them all together. Veronica hopes to use the Tempest as a "mass recruiting ground" so she can finally crush the Kingdom of Askr.

As for me, the biggest reveal is now we have Loki running around, and everything that anyone does needs to be looked at carefully. The reason for this is "Is that Loki doing that, or the character itself?" Then we also have Bruno being his mysterious self, so I wonder what he is up to doing the events of Tempest.
- - - - -
But wait, that's not all! We get some extra story by doing the Tempest proper. This time, M!Robin shows up! Here's another outline for ye.

1. M!Robin appears in the Tempest, which is the source of chaos that has engulfed his world. Masked Marth appears alongside him, foretelling the usual "if we don't stop this, all will be destroyed" speech.
2. The Tempest is explained by Mask!Marth. "The Tempest distorts time and space. Worlds become entangled... and they begin to mix."
B. F!Robin shows up! What is this?!
3. Mask!Marth states there are others fighting against the Tempest (likely referring to the Order of Heroes - the player), and that they are the ray of hope.
B. We now have Lucina proper. No, I don't mean Mask!Lucina. I mean Lucina!Lucina. She just says her usual lines and does not seem shocked at Mask!Marth at all.

Now, this is just the start of Tempest and I have yet to play through it, so I'll edit in the extra story bits as needed. However, with this small intro, it seems to be more just fanservice stuff than anything significant.

What is significant, however, is the title of the Tempest Trials - Dark Clouds Over Awakening. So, I presume Tempest Trials will be a reoccurring thing (perhaps alternating with the Voting Gauntlet if both are not shared), with a different world being affected by the Tempest. The main focus will be represented by the dialogue and bonus heroes.

* * * * *

If anyone else has any comments of insights, feel free to share!

[Vaximillian]

Anna was evil all along. I can be fine with that.

[Arthur97]

42 minutes ago, Sire said:

Gonna bump this topic back to the front page (last post here was May 15, featuring the World of Radiance) instead of making a new one every new story release. This way we can keep track of previous theories and discussions in the same topic instead of having to link to it every single time. Of course, if a mod disagrees, then a new topic can be made and this one locked.

So, this time around we have a new Xenologue, The Brink of Chaos! This is another one that is a highlight of storytelling compared to other maps (Blazing Shadows and Detached Princess were also good!). What occurs is briefly outlined below.

1. We finally get Veronica to acknowledge that Bruno (the Masked Man) is her brother. We already know of this, but now the audience knows Veronica acknowledges it.
2. However, it seems we have an imposter, Loki, posing as Bruno as Loki talks about the Tempest (since the real Bruno is away, likely searching for a cure as usual). Some speculate Loki is Loptyr, but as I am unfamiliar with Loptyr's source game, I can not comment on this.
3. We get in-universe justification on why the Tempest Trials are a thing.
4. Masked Marth shows up, says some lines, and runs off to save the day.
5. The Tempest itself is a maelstrom of chaos that essentially tears apart the barriers between worlds, lumping them all together. Veronica hopes to use the Tempest as a "mass recruiting ground" so she can finally crush the Kingdom of Askr.

As for me, the biggest reveal is now we have Loki running around, and everything that anyone does needs to be looked at carefully. The reason for this is "Is that Loki doing that, or the character itself?" Then we also have Bruno being his mysterious self, so I wonder what he is up to doing the events of Tempest.
- - - - -
But wait, that's not all! We get some extra story by doing the Tempest proper. This time, M!Robin shows up! Here's another outline for ye.

1. M!Robin appears in the Tempest, which is the source of chaos that has engulfed his world. Masked Marth appears alongside him, foretelling the usual "if we don't stop this, all will be destroyed" speech.
2. The Tempest is explained by Mask!Marth. "The Tempest distorts time and space. Worlds become entangled... and they begin to mix."
B. F!Robin shows up! What is this?!
3. Mask!Marth states there are others fighting against the Tempest (likely referring to the Order of Heroes - the player), and that they are the ray of hope.
B. We now have Lucina proper. No, I don't mean Mask!Lucina. I mean Lucina!Lucina. She just says her usual lines and does not seem shocked at Mask!Marth at all.

Now, this is just the start of Tempest and I have yet to play through it, so I'll edit in the extra story bits as needed. However, with this small intro, it seems to be more just fanservice stuff than anything significant.

What is significant, however, is the title of the Tempest Trials - Dark Clouds Over Awakening. So, I presume Tempest Trials will be a reoccurring thing (perhaps alternating with the Voting Gauntlet if both are not shared), with a different world being affected by the Tempest. The main focus will be represented by the dialogue and bonus heroes.

* * * * *

If anyone else has any comments of insights, feel free to share!

I like the Norse reference with Loki. I'm waiting for Bruno to come in and save the day somehow.

As for 2B, I think they were all already there and not just showing up randomly. Maybe I just misread that. In any case, I think it's kind of interesting that they put both Robins in the same room for once. 

I also wonder how "Marth" knew so much about this tempest? She seems confused to be there when you talk to her in the home page. In any case, I wonder if she will keep appearing in future tempests as a recurring character for the mode.