NoA Announces Echoes DLC

[r_n]

Quote

 

Awakening had day 1 DLC, alright. But neither it nor Fates had 

five series of DLC, four on the ready as they launched.

Also, for example, the first DLC (a single map) for Awakening was released in 19th April. Apotheosis was only released in 22nd November. And Awakening only had 2 series of DLC. That's almost a year.

Echoes was released in 20th April and 1 month later they already had available the 4th pack of DLC with the 5th TBA. And who knows if there will be more... In NA it will all be available 10 days after release.

This difference seems clear that in Awakening the main game received total attention and the bulk of the DLC only came after the game's major success and the success of the DLC was because of the success of the game. In Echoes it seems they already took it for granted and looks like they are testing the waters to see how much they can cash in.

 

Awakening's first series of DLC was spread out for one map a week over the course of 3 months. That set of 15 was almost definitely all made at once and then piece mealed out over those 3 months. After all, those maps were made on the principle of "recreate one classic map, then reuse it 2 more times" and grind dlc. 

Series 2 was commissioned later, probably after early results of the DLC were positive.

Echoes is calling its different chunks different "series" but that's just a grouping of related DLC rather than the previously used chunks of DLC. Series 1 is all of...3 maps. Series 2 is...also 3 maps. Series 3 isn't even maps, its a chunk of (completely overpriced) classes. Series 4 is 4 story maps. Series 5 is two maps. This honestly isn't too disssimilar to how Fates grouped its series. Series 1 was a mishmash of weird stuff. Series 2 was class-focused (Witch, Vanguard, Ballista, Anna). Series 3 was story & character focused.

If Awakening's DLC (this is a big what if scenario so just bear with me) was released like fates/echoes was, I imagine Grinding would have been a series, future past would be a series, the series 1 triplicate dlcs would be a series and the challenge dlc would be considered a series. And probably released in chunks rather than piecemeal.

And yeah NoA is bringing it all out at once. Because they just need to translate it and they probably want to meet parity with japanese release dates moving forward. I wouldn't be surprised if FE Switch is a worldwide release, for the record.

Anyway my point is, using the quick release of DLC as some evidence that Echoes didn't have all the dev time it needed is just..weird thing to focus on. Even if the DLC was actively developed alongside the main title, the time & effort was almost definitely budgeted with all of that in mind. Meanwhile, the pricing of the DLC, the lack of variety, map design (though hoenstly I dont mind what little I saw), the entirely useless class dlc are all right there and more then enough to go on rather than saying day 1 dlc is inherently bad.

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Specially considering a lot of things look like a step down from what was done in previous installments. I mean, no Pair Up (I don't mind it gone, but what new thing replaced it? The Turnwheel?), no Axe classes or weapons (would it really be bothersome to include them and create skills for them, specially considering there's no Weapon Triangle, anyway?), no Weapon Triangle (would it really hurt to tweak things for this? I mean they tweaked the Avoid of Forests and other tiles a lot), the maps appear to have just been copy-pasted, less options for Reclassing, less classes (No Wyverns, no Assassins, Cavaliers can only go Paladin, Knights only General, etc), even less weapons (Archer-Sniper-Bow Knight only uses Bows, Paladins-Gold Knights only uses Lances, etc). And I'm not sure how to feel about the 1 item inventory or the fact that grinding is encouraged in a traditional limited resources (EXP, Gold, etc) style game.

And the guy says he purposefully kept the flawed aspects... I don't know what to think of it... I mean, if those flaws were so glaring, why keep it?

 

They wanted to keep the "uniqueness" of Gaiden, for better (*sigh*) or worse. Even in a scenario with absolutely 0 DLC I highly doubt they would have changed it.

Edited May 3, 2017 by r_n
i hate the editor so much

[ChibiToastExplosion]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Echoes only feels like a downgrade because it's a remake of the series' black sheep.

That and a lot of the complaints are subjective likes vs dislikes... a lot of the things he complained about I see as boons because I find beauty and enjoyment in the simplicity of it all.

I just don't spend my time complaining about Gaiden like it objectively needed improvements like a lot of others do. Some of the things they "failed to update" are things some of us really loved about Gaiden.

As for the DLC, I'll probably nab the 3rd Tier for Alm/Celia and the story ones. I'm not a huge fan of the cipher characters in the context of cipher itself, and I doubt I'll dl them here.

[Lanko]

18 minutes ago, Armagon said:

1. Echoes doesn't need pair-up. Besides, Support bonuses still exist.

2. Weapon Triangle would break the game. The maps and classes are designed without the weapon triangle in mind. It's a one-time thing, really. Gaiden/Echoes is just that different.

3. Less Classes isn't really an issue considering this game has a small cast.

4. Classes only being able to use one weapon type ties into point 2.

5. One item/weapon inventory also ties into point 2.

6. Gaiden introduced the world map. Of course Echoes is gonna have it.

 

As for the copy-pasted maps, only Ch.3 does that iirc. I mean, the maps in the game are bland regardless. But so were Awakening's so ehh.

Echoes only feels like a downgrade because it's a remake of the series' black sheep.

1. I know, but it feels a little awkward that nothing really replaced it.

2. What if later they remake FE7, FE4 or FE8? They can't put Pair Up, Forging or Class or Weapon Skills because they would break those games too? Couldn't things be tweaked? A remake isn't just to update graphics, music and artwork.

3. It's not that small as people are making it out to be. I counted 34 characters from Serenes page. 37 if the other 3 characters on the Other section are playable. FE9 has 46 (including the 3 Royals and Ena-Nasir), FE7 has a total of 44 but a few are recruited in the place of another (like Harken-Horace), are route exclusive (Karla-Farina) or appear near to the very end (Renault-Athos) and one is practically the other in gameplay (Nils-Ninian). FE8 has 34 (not including the Tower character rewards).

And this smaller cast has 5 Villagers, 4 Pegasus Knights, 6 Mages, 4 Myrmidons, 4 Cavaliers (from the respective class line), etc. The Villagers will even turn into more of those classes that already have multiples. It's strange we have this followed by a DLC with 10 new classes, even if they are just for endgame.

4. Same.

5. Only carrying one weapon ties into point 2 as well. A remake can be tweaked and updated. They did add things. Doesn't Forests, for example, give 40 Avoid instead of 20 now?

6. I didn't say anything about the world map. I actually like it. On Awakening I didn't need to grind any encounter, but on Echoes it seems you're encouraged or you probably can't finish Chap.6? I'll see how this plays out.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I'm seeing from artwork, convos, screenshots and specially the presentation. I'm just really hoping the gameplay doesn't fall into the wasted potential area like Fates did with the story.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

First: I find it interesting that they are releasing it all so soon after launch, instead of spreading it out a bit like Awakening and Fates did. I wonder which strategy will be more successful in getting people to purchase DLC.

Second: Not much of the DLC actually looks interesting.

The story DLC, based on the topic it's about, doesn't seem to interesting to me.

An extra tier of classes seems cool... but sort of pointless. I like to make the game challenging for myself when I play it, so I won't use it during the main story as it will likely make the story easier. But it seems like there won't be much post-game outside the DLC... so it probably won't get much use.

And the rest appears to be mostly bonus item and experience DLC which I can't see I care for.

Doesn't look like anything neat like The Future Past or Heirs of Fate here.

Third: The DLC seems quite overpriced and appears to offer a very poor value (content to price ratio). The DLC pass costs more than a brand new game does but appears to offer substantially less content than I would expect of a brand new game.

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Lanko said:

1. I know, but it feels a little awkward that nothing really replaced it.

2. What if later they remake FE7, FE4 or FE8? They can't put Pair Up, Forging or Class or Weapon Skills because they would break those games too? Couldn't things be tweaked? A remake isn't just to update graphics, music and artwork.

3. It's not that small as people are making it out to be. I counted 34 characters from Serenes page. 37 if the other 3 characters on the Other section are playable. FE9 has 46 (including the 3 Royals and Ena-Nasir), FE7 has a total of 44 but a few are recruited in the place of another (like Harken-Horace), are route exclusive (Karla-Farina) or appear near to the very end (Renault-Athos) and one is practically the other in gameplay (Nils-Ninian). FE8 has 34 (not including the Tower character rewards).

And this smaller cast has 5 Villagers, 4 Pegasus Knights, 6 Mages, 4 Myrmidons, 4 Cavaliers (from the respective class line), etc. The Villagers will even turn into more of those classes that already have multiples. It's strange we have this followed by a DLC with 10 new classes, even if they are just for endgame.

4. Same.

5. Only carrying one weapon ties into point 2 as well. A remake can be tweaked and updated. They did add things. Doesn't Forests, for example, give 40 Avoid instead of 20 now?

6. I didn't say anything about the world map. I actually like it. On Awakening I didn't need to grind any encounter, but on Echoes it seems you're encouraged or you probably can't finish Chap.6? I'll see how this plays out.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I'm seeing from artwork, convos, screenshots and specially the presentation. I'm just really hoping the gameplay doesn't fall into the wasted potential area like Fates did with the story.

1. Personal taste i guess

2. Echoes does have forging though. So i can definitly see future remakes having forging as well. Heck, future remakes will likely have Skills as well. 

3. That cast of 37 is split between Alm and Celica's routes. That's what I mean by "small cast".

4. The thing about one equippable weaponry is, its just for the special weapons. Such as the Lightning Sword. By default, every unit has a generic weapon " equipped".

5. Ch.6 is just post-game, really. Plus, from what i hear, you only ever really need to grind on a few parts. So it's not that big of a deal imo.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

6 minutes ago, Lanko said:

5. Only carrying one weapon ties into point 2 as well. A remake can be tweaked and updated. They did add things. Doesn't Forests, for example, give 40 Avoid instead of 20 now?

You keep bringing this up. Forests had 40 avoid in vanilla Gaiden too.

[Lanko]

10 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

You keep bringing this up. Forests had 40 avoid in vanilla Gaiden too.

My mistake then. I read somewhere here that it was less and that they increased it to make terrain more important because of the lack of weapon triangle.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Lanko

[Tryhard]

24 minutes ago, Lanko said:

2. What if later they remake FE7, FE4 or FE8? They can't put Pair Up, Forging or Class or Weapon Skills because they would break those games too? Couldn't things be tweaked? A remake isn't just to update graphics, music and artwork.

Well, they did put forging in SoV, but not how it was in the other games. But that's a far less influence on gameplay than pair up. Pair up has been a thing they pushed very hard in Awakening and Fates and it's very polarising, so I would imagine they would keep it out of remakes where possible.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, Lanko said:

My mistake then. I read somewhere here that it was less and that they increased it to make terrain more important because of the lack of weapon triangle.

Well, that's half true - that was the design philosophy of the original game, which carried its way in to Echoes by virtue of being a faithful remake. So yes - terrain is the way it is to balance a game that originally didn't have a WT. At the time, terrain mattered little in FE1 so they tried to make it way more important. It's also why magic bypasses terrain completely, in exchange for set hit rates.

People tend to look at Echoes in the terms of a game that was made in 2017, when in reality it's the context of a game with pilosophies from 1992. You can love or hate that (I love it), but that's the case - it's not a step backwards so much as it is a step sideways. Those hoping to play Echoes like they play any other FE will obviously be upset, so hopefully people can approach it with a fresh mindset.

[Lanko]

52 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

People tend to look at Echoes in the terms of a game that was made in 2017, when in reality it's the context of a game with pilosophies from 1992. You can love or hate that (I love it), but that's the case - it's not a step backwards so much as it is a step sideways. Those hoping to play Echoes like they play any other FE will obviously be upset, so hopefully people can approach it with a fresh mindset.

I know, and it's a fair point. Just found some decisions a little questionable. Let's also remember the franchise almost ended and the previous 2 games added a lot of stuff to cater more audience while not being utterly radical to the established fans. It's that thing "more of the same but different" and they might have gone way too different by keeping things that could've been updated/added. Customization specially seems so greatly reduced.

• Branched promotions? Gone. But they worked to have a 10 new classes DLC available 1 month after release. 
• Reclassing? Only the 5 Villagers and whoever gets the special item (more will probably be from DLC). With reduced number of classes and weapons, even less options and customization. Same as above.
• Lots of classes? Gone. Greatly reduced, with an entire type of weapon (Axes) even shafted. No Wyverns, classical Fighter, Thieves, etc. Same as above.
• Support convos? From really a lot to mostly having 1-2, and apparently being pretty basic. Sure, presentation and base convos are great, but if you replay the previous two games with supports that you still haven't opened, you would always find something new. Again, there's a prologue DLC or something on release or near it as well. I wonder if they couldn't have worked on some more or better supports and then worked on the DLC...
• Pair Up? Gone. I don't mind it gone, 12 other FE's didn't have it, but they already had some numbers and stats from previous game, and if they really wanted it, they could've put it by making tweaks. Or created something else (maybe it was th Dungeons?)
• Inventory. Limited to only one item. Unsure of this. Hopefully we have a great variety of items and hopefully the non-weapon items will be really good to compensate for a 0 Mt weapon...

Guess I'll see how all this will play out in two weeks, but I don't know, I keep wondering why they didn't update/add a few things if they could have five series of DLC ready 1 month after the game's release... 

Even If it ends up not being not the case for alarmism, it's difficult to not think what this might mean for future installments. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Lanko

[r_n]

They decided from the onset to maintain most of Gaiden's nonsense and not overhaul/add everything from 13/14. As questionable as that is, it is entirely unrelated to when the DLC started development. The DLC would probably have come out at the relative same time, with the same content, regardless of if they added in that stuff to the main game.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

30 minutes ago, Lanko said:

Even If it ends up not being not the case for alarmism, it's difficult to not think what this might mean for future installments. 

Everything you listed is something I'm glad they didn't add or change about Gaiden.

I wish everyone would stop forgetting about you know, the actual next game in the franchise, which will expand on the popular FE mechanics without a doubt - stop trying to change this game in to what you think the next FE should be.

This game was not meant to be the next entry in the franchise. It's a stopgap for the wait for FE switch, and a bone for Gaiden fans.

Everyone who loves the new era of FE has a lot to look forward to. For those of us with a heart for that classic famicom feel, this is our last hurrah.

[Lanko]

@r_n

Not entirely, because if they planned to have five packs of DLC one month after the game's release, it means they also had to finish quicker/had less time to properly tweak/adapt things on the main game. Sure, none of us can be sure of that, but... it's suspect.

They ditched axes, axe classes, the overall number of classes, no branched promotions... but they worked on a 10 class DLC to be available almost right away? It's hard to swallow they couldn't have added some of these things, specially with WT gone anyway...

 @ChibiToastExplosion True, and a totally fair point. I may change my mind when I get the game. 

[Nihilzar]

This isn't DLC, it's a fucking joke.

Why is this shitty DLC so expensive?

 

[r_n]

10 minutes ago, Lanko said:

@r_n

Not entirely, because if they planned to have five packs of DLC one month after the game's release, it means they also had to finish quicker/had less time to properly tweak/adapt things on the main game. Sure, none of us can be sure of that, but... it's suspect.

They ditched axes, axe classes, the overall number of classes, no branched promotions... but they worked on a 10 class DLC to be available almost right away? It's hard to swallow they couldn't have added some of these things, specially with WT gone anyway...

 @ChibiToastExplosion True, and a totally fair point. I may change my mind when I get the game. 

No, it means they had it all planned from the start and budgeted the time to release accordingly. If the DLC wasn't there (& again assuming that they absolutely 100% were working on it in tandem with the same game with the same team and the same budget), that budget wouldn't magically have gone into pair up or w/e. 

If they wanted axes to be a proper class rather than only on brigands, they would have done that from the start. It would have been in all their release plans moving forward. Meanwhile I highly doubt the ten new classes are anything as major as implementing & balancing new or repurposed classes into the game. They're probably just fancier versions of existing classes, with increased stat caps (and even that's unsure, actually...) and a skill.

It's like,I don't know, blaming the inclusion of Faye on not having playable axes. That's a brand new character they had to design, balance, code, model, write, record voice work, etc. If Faye wasn't in the game they probably still would not have playable axes because they decided against that from the onset and not "ok we can either completely redo the usage of weapons in the game OR a new character" and then move the money pile between one or the other.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

3 hours ago, Lanko said:

I know, and it's a fair point. Just found some decisions a little questionable. Let's also remember the franchise almost ended and the previous 2 games added a lot of stuff to cater more audience while not being utterly radical to the established fans. It's that thing "more of the same but different" and they might have gone way too different by keeping things that could've been updated/added. Customization specially seems so greatly reduced.

• Branched promotions? Gone. But they worked to have a 10 new classes DLC available 1 month after release. 
• Reclassing? Only the 5 Villagers and whoever gets the special item (more will probably be from DLC). With reduced number of classes and weapons, even less options and customization. Same as above.
• Lots of classes? Gone. Greatly reduced, with an entire type of weapon (Axes) even shafted. No Wyverns, classical Fighter, Thieves, etc. Same as above.
• Support convos? From really a lot to mostly having 1-2, and apparently being pretty basic. Sure, presentation and base convos are great, but if you replay the previous two games with supports that you still haven't opened, you would always find something new. Again, there's a prologue DLC or something on release or near it as well. I wonder if they couldn't have worked on some more or better supports and then worked on the DLC...
• Pair Up? Gone. I don't mind it gone, 12 other FE's didn't have it, but they already had some numbers and stats from previous game, and if they really wanted it, they could've put it by making tweaks. Or created something else (maybe it was th Dungeons?)
• Inventory. Limited to only one item. Unsure of this. Hopefully we have a great variety of items and hopefully the non-weapon items will be really good to compensate for a 0 Mt weapon...

Guess I'll see how all this will play out in two weeks, but I don't know, I keep wondering why they didn't update/add a few things if they could have five series of DLC ready 1 month after the game's release... 

Even If it ends up not being not the case for alarmism, it's difficult to not think what this might mean for future installments. 

All of the things you mentioned, except for supports, were in the original Gaiden. They are not things that are "gone", they are things that weren't in the original Gaiden to begin with.

It's a remake that stays fairly faithful to the original gameplay wise, and instead focuses on adding to the story, visuals, and presentation. They didn't "update" those things because they deliberately chose to keep the gameplay close to the original Gaiden, which was never released in North America. They wanted to bring across the original Gaiden gameplay experience, for better or for worse. It's as simple as that.

And as for supports, well, Gaiden didn't have any supports to begin with so it's something that's added. That there are so few is a disappointment, but at least they are fully voiced. Much better than Shadow Dragon which had almost no story and no supports at all (and hideous, bland visuals).

There is nothing to be alarmed about except for the DLC practices; this is a remake, and I fully expect future completely new Fire Emblems to be much more in the vein of Awakening and Fates.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[Harvey]

I don't get the bashing the season pass is getting really. I mean the pass is only worth it if YOU find that its worth investing to begin with. And you can choose whichever pack you want to purchase. The packs are summed up as 45$ TOTALLY. And unlike other publishers who force DLC out of you, Nintendo for as far as I know hasn't done so and really..it doesn't feel like you need them to fully enjoy the game.

Atleast here, you get the full story unlike in Fates where despite the story splitting not really a flaw was priced as different games.

Here, you get the full game and this is all the more like Awakening if you ask me. 

 

[Roflolxp54]

The season pass is already cheaper than all of Awakening's DLC purchased in packs. And a lot of Awakening's DLC (namely the Einherjar arc) is copypasta with several maps being used 3 times just to create a pack for it with an Einherjar of a legacy character attached to each map.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[Moblin Major General]

Why does everything about this game have to be so divisive? All I've seen lately is fear-mongering and Nintendo bashing. People say this isn't quality DLC. Poor quality DLC is $5 for a skin that does absolutely nothing. It may seem like no effort was given for the DLC, but no effort is things like Horse Armor in Oblivion. Is this acceptable? Probably not, but most of what the industry is doing isn't acceptable. Nintendo fans are the only ones who are complaining about these practices, and if it sells poorly it sells poorly, and Nintendo and IS will go back to what worked before. Bethesda, EA, Activision, and Ubisoft all had similar criticisms, but only Bethesda changed their approach because of the reason I already put: It didn't sell well. Those other 3 will always have the detractors, but sadly, their communities are run by 10 year olds and their parents with deep pockets, meaning they will never have to change their approach.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

2 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

The season pass is already cheaper than all of Awakening's DLC purchased in packs. And a lot of Awakening's DLC (namely the Einherjar arc) is copypasta with several maps being used 3 times just to create a pack for it with an Einherjar of a legacy character attached to each map.

Difference is that it has different character layout and much higher difficulty as you progress(with no limit break) it has more quality of replayability than Echoes for which after everything is done you have to do another playthrough.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Shogus00]

Really liking the overclasses! They seem cool! I also like the series four prequel stuff. And does series five mean we'll get cipher localized? Please. While I agree it is a lot of money I don't feel any of it is necessary so if I don't buy I don't think I will be missing out. 

[Amanroth]

Geez... I never imagined the fraud DLC problem would get so bad that they end up asking people to pay more than the game itself for barely even a fraction of the content. What really bugs me the most is the fact that this ruins any chance of us getting what I call "REAL DLC". This is clearly another now-common case where there was extra content being worked on alongside the game and planned to be withheld in order to essentially just jack up the price of the game for many people. Simply delaying the game a month or so would make it easy for all this stuff to just be included directly in the game, but then they wouldn't get all those extra bucks from the people that cant resist this scheming method. I consider this the fraud DLC model, and always implore people not to fall for and support it because not only will that only make it worse (Imagine FE Switch coming out and having a day 1 DLC season pass for "just" eighty bucks! ugh...), it will also ruin chances of "real DLC". Want to know why Smash Bros didn't have a season pass (and thus can be rather pricey if you want ALL the content)? It's because it is one of the few examples of DLC done right. The game was finished and they didn't know for sure what they would end up adding afterwards. They even had a big ballot for people to vote for whatever new character they most wanted (which resulted in a character that many were sure would never make it into Smash). DLC made after the game is done and that involves at least some degree of feedback from people towards the game itself is what I'd consider real DLC. I was hoping it would be possible for FE games to get such a thing, but now I am doubtful they ever will. For example, imagine if Fates could've gotten real DLC; it could have addressed common things people wanted. Like the way many folks thought there should've been at least one more female exclusive class with there being only 2 female vs 4 male classes (real DLC could've done something like add map that brings back the bride class). Many folks thought Shadow Gift and dark tomes in general were useless since Nosferatu was the only one and was nerfed to Hell and back (real DLC could've increased the variety a bit). And plenty of folks were hoping for a 5 star difficulty map that would essentially be Fates's equivalent to Awakening's Apotheosis, but that ain't gonna happen on the fraud DLC model because it wasn't in the plans from the get go!

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Amanroth said:

Geez... I never imagined the fraud DLC problem would get so bad that they end up asking people to pay more than the game itself for barely even a fraction of the content. What really bugs me the most is the fact that this ruins any chance of us getting what I call "REAL DLC". This is clearly another now-common case where there was extra content being worked on alongside the game and planned to be withheld in order to essentially just jack up the price of the game for many people. Simply delaying the game a month or so would make it easy for all this stuff to just be included directly in the game, but then they wouldn't get all those extra bucks from the people that cant resist this scheming method. I consider this the fraud DLC model, and always implore people not to fall for and support it because not only will that only make it worse (Imagine FE Switch coming out and having a day 1 DLC season pass for "just" eighty bucks! ugh...), it will also ruin chances of "real DLC". Want to know why Smash Bros didn't have a season pass (and thus can be rather pricey if you want ALL the content)? It's because it is one of the few examples of DLC done right. The game was finished and they didn't know for sure what they would end up adding afterwards. They even had a big ballot for people to vote for whatever new character they most wanted (which resulted in a character that many were sure would never make it into Smash). DLC made after the game is done and that involves at least some degree of feedback from people towards the game itself is what I'd consider real DLC. I was hoping it would be possible for FE games to get such a thing, but now I am doubtful they ever will. For example, imagine if Fates could've gotten real DLC; it could have addressed common things people wanted. Like the way many folks thought there should've been at least one more female exclusive class with there being only 2 female vs 4 male classes (real DLC could've done something like add map that brings back the bride class). Many folks thought Shadow Gift and dark tomes in general were useless since Nosferatu was the only one and was nerfed to Hell and back (real DLC could've increased the variety a bit). And plenty of folks were hoping for a 5 star difficulty map that would essentially be Fates's equivalent to Awakening's Apotheosis, but that ain't gonna happen on the fraud DLC model because it wasn't in the plans from the get go!

See, the funny thing is, you don't need any of the DLC to play the game. It's not like EA, where parts of the game are purposely cut and made as DLC (which can be accessed just by hacking, as it's technically in the game.) SoV's DLC really is just extra content. Mostly unnecessary extra content but still extra content.

I will agree that a $45 Season Pass is bullshit but at least it's stuff that isn't required to fully enjoy the base game.

Also, all the Season Pass does is just download the DLC as it's released. And it's available on Day 1, but it's not a Day 1 only thing, unlike certain EA practices.

Again, not defending this but it is being blown out of proportion. A similar outcry happened with Breath of the Wild's Season Pass, even though in that case, the $20 is very much worth it.

[Amanroth]

See, the funny thing is, you don't need any of the DLC to play the game.

Hence why I distinctly said I implore people to not buy it. DLC should be extra content developed after the game is out based on consumer feedback to enhance their experience. That's "real" DLC done the right way. If people buy into this sham model of DLC, it ruins the chances of ever hoping for games with real DLC. In this sham model things happen like "pay to get extra class upgrades that nobody will likely need since the characters being maxed out will likely already be strong enough to make the game easy"; no need to pay even more to change it from easy mode to cakewalk mode. Real DLC would be something like several people wishing X would happen, and so eventually a DLC comes out that gives people such. Like, maybe if it become a common nitpick that Alm's side ultimately gets more units than Celica's (don't see why anybody would gripe over that, but you never know), they could make a DLC that gives her side an extra unit. Like I said, my problem with sham DLC isn't the fact that it is nothing more than a scammy cash grab, it's the fact that it destroys the chances of REAL DLC ever happening.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Amanroth said:

DLC should be extra content developed after the game is out based on consumer feedback to enhance their experience.

Here's the thing, the game has been out.....in Japan. So technically, NA/EU is the only place where the Day 1 DLC is a thing, and even then, it's just a Season Pass that downloads the maps as they release.

1 hour ago, Amanroth said:

Real DLC would be something like several people wishing X would happen, and so eventually a DLC comes out that gives people such.

This doesn't always happen though. Even with "real DLC".

1 hour ago, Amanroth said:

Like, maybe if it become a common nitpick that Alm's side ultimately gets more units than Celica's (don't see why anybody would gripe over that, but you never know), they could make a DLC that gives her side an extra unit.

Actually, the 5th Series of Echoes DLC is implied to have the four FE Cipher mascots and from the looks of it, you'll be able to recruit them. So yeah, extra units confirmed.