*POSSIBLE SPOILERS* Third Tier classes and Overclass

[Lord Tullus]

I don't like it.  It's rediculous.  I'm not touchuing it, because third tier classes are already cool and extravagant enough. 4th tier is so overkill, this could make it the easiest FE yet.  Echoes is looking to try my patience more than it already has.  Extra class (and grinding to an extent) DLC for FE was dumb in my opinion to begin with, as FE relies on class balance to create a wholesome and challenging experience, but... 4th tier classes.  Challenge?  In a Fire emblem game? Now with 4th tier classes and ridiculous cash grab DLC that needs to fill in the gaps that the lazy devs couldn't do with their non-existent talents, Challenge and rewarding gameplay is a thing of the past!

 GO DLC, RIGHT GUYS?

Edited May 4, 2017 by Lord Tullus

[Alexmender]

33 minutes ago, Lord Tullus said:

I don't like it.  It's rediculous.  I'm not touchuing it, because third tier classes are already cool and extravagant enough. 4th tier is so overkill, this could make it the easiest FE yet.  Echoes is looking to try my patience more than it already has.  Extra class (and grinding to an extent) DLC for FE was dumb in my opinion to begin with, as FE relies on class balance to create a wholesome and challenging experience, but... 4th tier classes.  Challenge?  In a Fire emblem game?  WHAT CHALLENGE!?  Now with 4th tier classes and ridiculous cash grab DLC that needs to fill in the gaps that the lazy devs couldn't do with their non-existent talents, Challenge and rewarding gameplay is a thing of the past!

 GO DLC, RIGHT GUYS?

That's not how the overclasses work at all, first they seem to only be aesthetic because you need to be MAX LEVEL in the maximum class a unit can get, which by that point they would be overpowered anyway. They don't change anything, they don't make the game easier because if you want to access them you HAVE to grind, and by that point there's nothing that would stand in your way.

Second point, while grinding DLC is essentially a cheat code to remove challenge, it is for people who have difficulty trying to beat the game, if you don't need them there's no need to buy them so they don't affect you at ALL.

Third point, this game is a remake of GAIDEN, this is the farthest you can get from classic Fire Emblem and it really shows. While it can get a bit difficult at times, Gaiden is not what I would call challenging whatsoever, and rewarding gameplay is entirely subjective because people play FE for different reasons, some like the strategy aspect, others the character interactions, etc, etc. 

While I don't approve the practices of IS regarding DLC I must say I like the look of most of these classes, and I'll buy a few of them even if they are unnecessary and totally useless from a gameplay perspective.

[Lord Tullus]

2 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

That's not how the overclasses work at all, first they seem to only be aesthetic because you need to be MAX LEVEL in the maximum class a unit can get, which by that point they would be overpowered anyway. They don't change anything, they don't make the game easier because if you want to access them you HAVE to grind, and by that point there's nothing that would stand in your way.

Second point, while grinding DLC is essentially a cheat code to remove challenge, it is for people who have difficulty trying to beat the game, if you don't need them there's no need to buy them so they don't affect you at ALL.

Third point, this game is a remake of GAIDEN, this is the farthest you can get from classic Fire Emblem and it really shows. While it can get a bit difficult at times, Gaiden is not what I would call challenging whatsoever, and rewarding gameplay is entirely subjective because people play FE for different reasons, some like the strategy aspect, others the character interactions, etc, etc. 

While I don't approve the practices of IS regarding DLC I must say I like the look of most of these classes, and I'll buy a few of them even if they are unnecessary and totally useless from a gameplay perspective.

I understand.  More than I did, at least.  When I first heard about this concept I had no clue what it was or what it was about, so you helped clear that up for me. Thanks.  But my point still stands, though.  It's pointless to have them, much less pay money for something that doesn't do anything for you other than "overpowered, the game".

No gameplay enhancement other than looking cool. So, you need to be max level, by this I mean promoting at the max level in all the prior tiers.  Right?  I just don't get why they would waste their rescources and time of making this game into something that... does nothing for the player other than looking cool.

[Alexmender]

1 minute ago, Lord Tullus said:

I understand.  More than I did, at least.  When I first heard about this concept I had no clue what it was or what it was about, so you helped clear that up for me. Thanks.  But my point still stands, though.  It's pointless to have them, much less pay money for something that doesn't do anything for you other than "overpowered, the game".

No gameplay enhancement other than looking cool. So, you need to be max level, by this I mean promoting at the max level in all the prior tiers.  Right?  I just don't get why they would waste their rescources and time of making this game into something that... does nothing for the player other than looking cool.

Exactly, in order to use the overclasses you would need to max the prior tier, for example if you wished to make Saber a Yasha, first he would need to be a Lv.20 Dread fighter in order to be able to promote.

Yeah, I completely agree with that point. These new classes are really pointless, and while I like having things like that just for showing off it's really off putting how IS decided to charge us for things like that. It seems they took notes from Namco does their DLC with the Tales of series, selling costumes for $4.99 or something, which is something I find ridiculous. I'll buy the ones for the classes who only have 2 tiers in order to even the playing ground, but I won't deny this is a really awful practice whose only purpose is to suck dry the money from people willing to accept this.

 

[Shogus00]

7 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

I enjoy making units as stupidly strong as possible so this is cool 

My man!

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Again still pointless with no challenge after chapter 6 when its not that challenging in the first place and nothing else no PVP, no more bonus maps, no nothing but restarting for a new playthrough its just purely aesthetic. I hope IF this comes back in the next game which is extensive and RD long it would have actual value in use.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

no PVP,

After Fates, i don't want to see PvP in Fire Emblem ever again. Too many hackers.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

After Fates, i don't want to see PvP in Fire Emblem ever again. Too many hackers.

I honestly wouldn't be surprise if this got cut for the next game and forward since it shows in Fates FE doesn't work with this formatting at all...

[wigglepuppy]

6 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Exactly, in order to use the overclasses you would need to max the prior tier, for example if you wished to make Saber a Yasha, first he would need to be a Lv.20 Dread fighter in order to be able to promote.

Yeah, I completely agree with that point. These new classes are really pointless, and while I like having things like that just for showing off it's really off putting how IS decided to charge us for things like that. It seems they took notes from Namco does their DLC with the Tales of series, selling costumes for $4.99 or something, which is something I find ridiculous. I'll buy the ones for the classes who only have 2 tiers in order to even the playing ground, but I won't deny this is a really awful practice whose only purpose is to suck dry the money from people willing to accept this.

 

I agree with you completely, but like I said before, I'm was trying to get people's opinions on the classes themselves, not the pricing. In other words, what would you feel if the next new FE game had 3rd tier classes (affecting aesthetics or gameplay take your pick) assuming it was in the game without the need for buying dlc? 

[Alexmender]

45 minutes ago, wigglepuppy said:

I agree with you completely, but like I said before, I'm was trying to get people's opinions on the classes themselves, not the pricing. In other words, what would you feel if the next new FE game had 3rd tier classes (affecting aesthetics or gameplay take your pick) assuming it was in the game without the need for buying dlc? 

Of course, sorry for derailing the topic, I guess it's due to how heated things are right now.

For the question itself, well 3rd tier classes are always awesome but for them to work from a gameplay perspective it would have to be a really long game, something like RD or Genealogy 

Spoiler

but without a second gen splitting the story in two halves.

. As long as they make sense I'll welcome their inclusion in whatever game they appear.

[SavageVolug]

9 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Of course, sorry for derailing the topic, I guess it's due to how heated things are right now.

For the question itself, well 3rd tier classes are always awesome but for them to work from a gameplay perspective it would have to be a really long game, something like RD or Genealogy 

  Reveal hidden contents

but without a second gen splitting the story in two halves.

. As long as they make sense I'll welcome their inclusion in whatever game they appear.

Well said Alexmender. I love the 3rd tier classes that Radiant Dawn used (#inspiredbyGaiden), and want this concept to be used more. But as you said, for it to work the game would have to be big like FE4 or FE10, no way would 3rd tiers work in Awakening or Fates. The game is too short and most of the enemies are not really that much of a challenge. I think the only real challenge for me was recruiting Averssa. If FE switch does not mage a HUGE fire emblem world and game and ignores 3rd tier units or only includes them through DLC it will be a huge wasted opportunity. With the Switch's power Nintendo and IS could make not just a world with a singular continent we could have continents, each one with their own kingdoms and empire(s). And if 3rd tiers aren't used, if we don't get epic map battles it will be a huge waste of the Switch's potential. I want to fight laguz bandits again, I want to control laguz mercenaries (occupation not class), I want my gold knight to fight a 3rd tier myrmidon boss or maybe even better a 3rd tier wyvern unit boss that could be epic.

It is possible though that, Nintendo might be testing the waters with Echoes in regards to 3rd tier units. Now I still think they're trying to boost the money made by any sales of Echoes but it is possible that if Nintendo sees people really liking the overclasses they might include 3rd tier units as a core game mechanic more. At the same time it is also possible we will only get 3rd tiers through DLC which means no fighting Reavers or Dread Fighters which bugs me.

[wigglepuppy]

8 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

Well said Alexmender. I love the 3rd tier classes that Radiant Dawn used (#inspiredbyGaiden), and want this concept to be used more. But as you said, for it to work the game would have to be big like FE4 or FE10, no way would 3rd tiers work in Awakening or Fates. The game is too short and most of the enemies are not really that much of a challenge. I think the only real challenge for me was recruiting Averssa. If FE switch does not mage a HUGE fire emblem world and game and ignores 3rd tier units or only includes them through DLC it will be a huge wasted opportunity. With the Switch's power Nintendo and IS could make not just a world with a singular continent we could have continents, each one with their own kingdoms and empire(s). And if 3rd tiers aren't used, if we don't get epic map battles it will be a huge waste of the Switch's potential. I want to fight laguz bandits again, I want to control laguz mercenaries (occupation not class), I want my gold knight to fight a 3rd tier myrmidon boss or maybe even better a 3rd tier wyvern unit boss that could be epic.

It is possible though that, Nintendo might be testing the waters with Echoes in regards to 3rd tier units. Now I still think they're trying to boost the money made by any sales of Echoes but it is possible that if Nintendo sees people really liking the overclasses they might include 3rd tier units as a core game mechanic more. At the same time it is also possible we will only get 3rd tiers through DLC which means no fighting Reavers or Dread Fighters which bugs me.

It's funny, I've been replaying the Tellius games and I know exactly how you feel about laguz (They're friggin awesome). I also completely agree with you in that a longer fire emblem game would be welcome and would make 3rd tier classes more sensible. That being said, Gaiden isn't a terribly long FE game and 3rd tiers are in them. Even if they are overpowered in that game (looking at you ZEKE!) I'd say that's just the point right? Just my opinion, but what do you think?

[SavageVolug]

36 minutes ago, wigglepuppy said:

It's funny, I've been replaying the Tellius games and I know exactly how you feel about laguz (They're friggin awesome). I also completely agree with you in that a longer fire emblem game would be welcome and would make 3rd tier classes more sensible. That being said, Gaiden isn't a terribly long FE game and 3rd tiers are in them. Even if they are overpowered in that game (looking at you ZEKE!) I'd say that's just the point right? Just my opinion, but what do you think?

Yeah, I agree some people criticize the skills in the Tellius games for being overpowered but you are SUPPOSSED to feel overpowered and after all the work it took to get your units to 3rd tier you should be overpowered. Or at least some resemblance of being overpowered although I would have liked more 3rd tier bosses to fight in Radiant Dawn.