Ideas for for theoritical Fire emblem 6 Echoes

[SoulWeaver]

Meh, I'll jump in despite never playing the game with some thoughts because why not.

For Unbreakable Divine Weaponry, that sounds like a good plan, with one issue - there's like eight of them plus the SoS, right? Because of this, it would quickly become easy to never lose a Weapon Use again on any weapon type covered by those weapons because you just only use whoever's using a Divine Weapon and nobody else. Make them character-specific to fix this? Then you end up with only the lucky Units picked out for them being really worth training because Divine Weaponry. If they made the Divine Weapons unbreakable, I think they'd have to make everything else unbreakable as well.

Late promotions are most agreeably lame as heck - I'm bugged that it took Alm as long as it did to finally become something better than a Fighter in Echoes, whereas with Robin/Chrom/Corrin it was just as soon as you could find a Master Seal and get to the right level. If the promotion needs to be locked to a story event, then I think it should be fairly early on, preferably about the same time as you can start promoting other Units give or take a Chapter or two. I get the idea that the Lord is supposed to be a somewhat shaky character stat-wise early on and then become a powerhouse late-game, but that doesn't make it less annoying, plus that doesn't explain Marth, who's kind of glass early into Shadow Dragon which makes it hard to properly train him to be not glass later.

More Blazing Sword characters sounds nice, but as mentioned before, how do we get around the now-canon pairings? Just the fact that Roy's mother was never seen in-game already has all kinds of people claiming Eliwood+Ninian is the canon pairing because Ninian must have died before the game, and I think that they might just make things worse by trying to include more of Eliwood/Hector's motley crew. I think I want to see an older Lyn just so we know what the heck happened to her, plus assuming he/she's not already in BB give us the tactician because Avatars rock, and stop there, but I haven't played very much of Blazing Sword so I don't really have any characters I'm attached to.

Definitely give us full VA - now that they've shown they're willing to do it for Re:Gaiden, they'll just make people mad if they don't keep doing it. I don't really care, I'd just be happy to get Roy in English, but I know there are lots of people who would, plus it makes the story seem much fuller than otherwise(I got tired of Chrom saying "yes" "huh?" or "alright" every three or four text scrolls).

Finally, though I'm probably in the minority here, if it's not already in the game I want Shanna, Juno, and Thite to have Triangle Attack because it seems kind of ridiculous that only one set of pegasus knights in all FE would have ever come up with such a technique.

[Great Dane]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:13 PM, SoulWeaver said:

Finally, though I'm probably in the minority here, if it's not already in the game I want Shanna, Juno, and Thite to have Triangle Attack because it seems kind of ridiculous that only one set of pegasus knights in all FE would have ever come up with such a technique.

The Triangle Attack was present in all three GBA games. (Heck, it's pretty much the only reason to use Juno)

Anyways, I think I'd like something of a return of the base system from PoR and RD, where you have time to sort out your assets and get hints on the upcoming maps. Ex: Talking to Elffin to learn of the legendary weapon conditions in Chapter 12. I'd also like to see something such as supports reflecting in dialogue, like if you were to talk to Fir or Noah if their supports were maxed to show that the conversation had impact. I think this could do a lot for characterization in such a linear game.

Gameplay-wise... I guess the only thing I can think of is upping weapon accuracy and fixing the fact that Troubadours and Nomads are immune to Horseslayers. Maybe also cut down support grinding. Other than that I can't really think of much.

[King Marth 64]

I got some ideas down for The Binding Blade remake.

1. Add the rest of The Blazing Blade characters that weren't confirmed to be dead maybe like Rebecca, Nino, Jaffar, Nils, etc. similar to like how New Mystery of the Emblem add rest of the Shadow Dragon characters back. We knew that some of the characters such as Karla, Ninian, Athos, Canas, and a few others will might not return
2. Add new characters similar to like Shadow Dragon, New Mystery of the Emblem, and Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
3. Fix Bartre's level to 5 or above 5 instead of 1 since the plot hole that have Bartre recruited Karla from the arena to have him Level 5 in The Blazing Blade
4. Have the rest of the voice cast that have voiced some of the characters from The Binding Blade and The Blazing Blade in Heroes reprises to the remake such as Ray Chase for Roy, etc. like they did with Est and Catria from Heroes and Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
5. Add Prologue Chapter and Endgame Chapters like in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
6. Add Easy Mode
7. Add the Cipher characters as DLC characters like in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
8. Add DLC
9. Give an unlockable content with scanning from the Roy amiibo like in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
10. I don't know about for the other Super Smash Bros. series and other Fire Emblem line amiibos yet?
11. Add More Helpful Info similar to like The Blazing Blaze through Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
12. Add a Mila's Turnwheel styled Turnwheel to rewind time
13. Make the Support Limit to Unlimited like in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
14. Give Larum and Elffin a weapon to use as Self-Defense
15. Have added plots and new lines that was mentioned from The Blazing Blade similar to like how Echoes: Shadows of Valentia have added some stuff was in (original/New) Mystery of the Emblem
16. Add a secondary protagonist (I'm not talking about as in an another Avatar) instead of keeping Roy the only protagonist in the game
17. Add Female Mercenary since Echidna is the only female Hero added in The Binding Blade
18. Make Thieves promote to Assassins like in The Blazing Blade
19. Add new classes and existing classes that didn't appear in The Binding Blade
20. Reclassing and might be possible to add Trainee Classes

Edited June 17, 2017 by King Marth 64

[Lady Sansa]

Make Lilina an actual lord with plot relevance after chapter 8. And give her a fancy personal tome.

Maybe add some extra promotion items as drops, especially guiding rings.

Pretty much every unit will need some adjustment to their base stats.

Give archers extra bow range.

Either remove Merlinus from the game, or make him more similar to his FE7 version and have him gain a level per chapter.

[Vaximillian]

On 26.05.2017 at 2:13 AM, SoulWeaver said:

Finally, though I'm probably in the minority here, if it's not already in the game I want Shanna, Juno, and Thite to have Triangle Attack because it seems kind of ridiculous that only one set of pegasus knights in all FE would have ever come up with such a technique.

The three pegasus sisters did have a triangle attack. Even the three knights had a triangle attack in FE6.

[Dandy Druid]

Whoo caught this before it became too old to comment on.

I see some people wishing for Lalum/Elphin to be able to wield a weapon. As much as I love the idea of a combat dancer, their growths aren't suited for combat, so those will have to be tweaked. Tbh, I'd prefer if they got some sort of rally, Charisma, or be able to dance for more than one unit after they gained a certain level. (maybe 2 at level 5, 3 at level 10, and 4 at level 15?). I would find this more useful, but I wouldn't be opposed to see Lalum/Elphin carry a weapon around, especially since their upbringing could justify how they know the basics at the very least (Lalum would get a sword, Elphin would get magic).

Also would be interesting if we had an actual endgame cutscene as well, that is liable to change if you bothered to pair Roy up with anyone. I'm not crazy about the idea of supports being locked by grade (like you can only have 1 A support), but I wouldn't mind certain characters being locked if a love rival had already initiated a support with the person of interest. For example, Roy will be able to support Allan, Lance, Marcus, Wolt, and 1 of his potential wives. Say you chose Lalum- the rivals would be locked out even if there's available spots. Or it would be C,B, and S, but the first girl to reach S would marry Roy and the others get just an A support instead. But I'm pretty sure this idea is flawed (probably because all the support bonuses would make the game a lot easier, but it is FE6, which is probably the hardest out of the GBA games.)

[Jotari]

On May 6, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Something Witty said:

Now I'm going to say right now, that I have never finished Fe 6. However, I do like some of the ideas the game had, and would love to see it remade so the west can play it without emulators. Now, I will say right now that I am a weird person, and the things I value in fire emblem games are different than most people's values. I also some times find smaller details in games agitating, so if you see and idea that seems out of place to you, it is probably because it was meant to fix a small detail that most of you were probably fine with. I would just like to share my ideas for a possible remake of Fe 6 with you all, and would love to see your opinions as well. So here we go...

- A camp after battles, so you won't  just be directed to the battle field after a battle is over. You can talk to characters sort of like in fates (If the next chapter can lead you into getting a new legendary weapon, they can give you clues/rumors that can give you the requirement into getting the weapon), they can give you clues about the requirements, and get items for it. You can also go to town, where you can buy weapons or repair them (another feature I think they should add), recruit a new teamate, or train in the arena.

- An item similiar to Mila's turnwheel, but with different purposes. The person who uses it will be in camp after battles, and with his item, he can tell you if a legendary weapon can be obtained in the next chapter. He will also tell you that you should also protect Fae. This person and the item are basically guides to help you get the best ending.

- Balancing characters and RNG

- make the sword of seals and the legendary weapons unbreakable, but nerf them as well.

- Make the exaccus a special weapon instead of a sword, for instance, it can become either a sword, axe, or spear, depending on the situation.

- Make the final boss resistant to the legendary weapons (don't know how they would integrate this into the story, but the bosses weakness made her much easier). Also make give the final boss max health.

What do you think of these ideas? Do you agree with them, or disagree with them, let me know.

Making the legendary weapons unbreakable but also having a repair feature seems like conflicting features. If you're going to be able to repair things then it makes sense to have them as OP and a resource to use.

 

On my own personal opinion I'm fine with Idoun being a pushover final boss. It works with her plot. She's sympathetic, not actively aggressive (you're chasing her down) and wasn't even built for combat (unlike most other final bosses the threat she poses isn't because she's powerful, it's because she can breed war dragons). But the game still needs a satisfying conclusion so I'd really like Yahn threat level to be increased. Really play up the true Fire Dragon status he has with a sprite different from the War Dragons. The divine weapons can still be effective against him but just give hime much high stats to compensate and maybe some area of effect attacks.

[Book Bro]

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Making the legendary weapons unbreakable but also having a repair feature seems like conflicting features. If you're going to be able to repair things then it makes sense to have them as OP and a resource to use.

 

On my own personal opinion I'm fine with Idoun being a pushover final boss. It works with her plot. She's sympathetic, not actively aggressive (you're chasing her down) and wasn't even built for combat (unlike most other final bosses the threat she poses isn't because she's powerful, it's because she can breed war dragons). But the game still needs a satisfying conclusion so I'd really like Yahn threat level to be increased. Really play up the true Fire Dragon status he has with a sprite different from the War Dragons. The divine weapons can still be effective against him but just give hime much high stats to compensate and maybe some area of effect attacks.

I agree that Yahn should be the stronger of the two final bosses but I still think Idoun should at least be made so it's not possible or as easy to one-turn her. Redesign the map so getting to her is the challenge at least.

Speaking of Yahn, he should be more present in the story. Have him show up a few times before endgame, but in a way that he's kept somewhat mysterious until the end.

As far as other things I'd like: expand the supports and add more paired endings; develop the contrast between Roy and Zephiel more; add a walkable barracks; expand Lilina's and Guinevere's roles in the story; make Guinevere playable even if she's built as a more supportive mage to reflect her peaceful nature; incorporate Lalum and Elphin into the story regardless of who you recruit; have more cameos/references from FE7; let the player choose between branching paths or expand the story so you visit all of them in one playthrough.

And of course, voice acting and cutscenes, balancing Roy's promotion time/hit rates, etc. If the difficulty is kept around the same then they should also consider adding in-battle saves or a Turnwheel type mechanic.

One thing they NEED to make sure they get as close as possible to the original though, is Zephiel's battle animations. 

[Harvey]

On 7/10/2017 at 7:56 AM, Book Bro said:

One thing they NEED to make sure they get as close as possible to the original though, is Zephiel's battle animations. 

Not just that though. Pretty much all battle animations need to be faithful. But I do wonder how it can be possible to do so in 3-D..as there's so much to consider when making 3-D animations.

 

[Dandy Druid]

On 7/9/2017 at 7:26 PM, Book Bro said:

I agree that Yahn should be the stronger of the two final bosses but I still think Idoun should at least be made so it's not possible or as easy to one-turn her. Redesign the map so getting to her is the challenge at least.

Speaking of Yahn, he should be more present in the story. Have him show up a few times before endgame, but in a way that he's kept somewhat mysterious until the end.

As far as other things I'd like: expand the supports and add more paired endings; develop the contrast between Roy and Zephiel more; add a walkable barracks; expand Lilina's and Guinevere's roles in the story; make Guinevere playable even if she's built as a more supportive mage to reflect her peaceful nature; incorporate Lalum and Elphin into the story regardless of who you recruit; have more cameos/references from FE7; let the player choose between branching paths or expand the story so you visit all of them in one playthrough.

And of course, voice acting and cutscenes, balancing Roy's promotion time/hit rates, etc. If the difficulty is kept around the same then they should also consider adding in-battle saves or a Turnwheel type mechanic.

One thing they NEED to make sure they get as close as possible to the original though, is Zephiel's battle animations. 

I like these ideas, especially the ones about the story. Yahn really had the potential to be a really good antagonistic force, but his involvement in the story felt rushed. IIRC Guinevere had plenty of screentime, but a lot it ended with her being interrupted, so her interactions were more frustrating/annoying rather than well developed imo. Elphin was in Lalum's story and sort of took over what could have been her role plot-wise. But I find it sad that both of their agencies end after the Eturian arc. Lalum should say something if she knows that her father Douglas is in on the battlefield (and convince him to not attack your units!). Lalum is a character with a lot of untapped potential. Her character definitely has a unique perspective of life and unique experiences; her approach or opinion may be interesting or entertaining.

I don't mind the Lalum/Elphin branch split, but I'll always remained confused as to why there was a Sacae/Ilia split that was based on EXP scale.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I like these ideas, especially the ones about the story. Yahn really had the potential to be a really good antagonistic force, but his involvement in the story felt rushed. IIRC Guinevere had plenty of screentime, but a lot it ended with her being interrupted, so her interactions were more frustrating/annoying rather than well developed imo. Elphin was in Lalum's story and sort of took over what could have been her role plot-wise. But I find it sad that both of their agencies end after the Eturian arc. Lalum should say something if she knows that her father Douglas is in on the battlefield (and convince him to not attack your units!). Lalum is a character with a lot of untapped potential. Her character definitely has a unique perspective of life and unique experiences; her approach or opinion may be interesting or entertaining.

I don't mind the Lalum/Elphin branch split, but I'll always remained confused as to why there was a Sacae/Ilia split that was based on EXP scale.

As far as exp split routes go, the Ilia Sacae one actually makes some degree of sense. Think about which units are more prominent in the army. If the people in Ilia are doing most of the fighting than Roy can get info about their country while the Sacaeans go mostly ignored and vice versa.

[Interdimensional Observer]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

As far as exp split routes go, the Ilia Sacae one actually makes some degree of sense. Think about which units are more prominent in the army. If the people in Ilia are doing most of the fighting than Roy can get info about their country while the Sacaeans go mostly ignored and vice versa.

This has always bothered me. I haven't actually played Binding Blade mind you, but how do you even get from Ilia to Bern without passing through Sacae? How does Roy not end up fighting the loyal to Bern Djute Tribe en route to Bern? Do they defect/turn neutral after seeing Ilia liberated? If so, the plot makes no mention of it, but that seems like the easiest solution. I'd imagine Ilia's mercenaries likewise withdraw if Sacae is liberated by Roy instead.

 

If we want to make Idunn a more challenging final boss- why not consider taking a page of RD's playbook and add protective auras and some AoE on top of infinite reinforcements or something? Consider it a last measure of defense Jahn put in place- she would flood the world with war dragons even if he died. Plus Idunn using magical non-direct forms of offense/defense wouldn't be out of line with Idunn's general job in the plot- spawning fighters and not fighting herself.

[Rapier]

The only gameplay changes I'd like are quality of life changes and balancing changes so that most units and weapons are usable.

As for the rest, better Supports (with a S support for paired endings), graphics, remastered soundtrack and the like.

For specific changes, have Roy promote sooner, choose which route he wants to take via a multiple choices box instead of a silly levels sum, add some gaiden maps with special win conditions (Defend, Escape), make map designs less frustrating (I'm looking at you, desert map), and I guess that's it.

[henrymidfields]

For Gameplay:
 

Spoiler

 

1. Better system for RNG-Proofing: The RNG system needs to be revamped to lessen the risk of being RNG-screwed and the game made unplayable. I probably would make Normal mode similar to how one of the Tellius games had Fixed Mode, which added the "average points" onto a character's stats for each level up. Alternately, I would skew the game to possibly allow another dice roll for any unraised stats in the first roll upon levelling up. (Maybe not all the time, but for example, when a stat remained the same for any previous two level ups in hard, and four in lunatic. For normal, the "roll again" can apply on every level.)

2. Better difficulty setting: In addition to, or instead of enemy stat inflation, I'd make:

• stricter time limits for gaiden conditions.
• enemies carrying better weapons - what they may have Steel weapons in Normal Mode, they would have Silver, Killer, Brave and/or effective weapons in Hard or Lunatic. That way, you'd actually have to rely on everyone, instead of just Milady (Wyrmslayers/Killers), Percival (Horseslayers/Killers), Rutger (Swordslayers), and/or any other game-breaking units.

3. Better balancing and strategic diversity of units and gameplay: As noted below

• Roy: Leadership stars and rally skills should be a thing for Roy (and for certain other characters), as his role in the story is clearly of a strategist. His strength comes from his leadership and his military tactics instead of being a dumb muscle, so why not reflect that into the game? Also, his promotion definitely needs a fix, but I say either make his levels 30/10, or completely independent to his promotion.
• All cavaliers, wyvern knights, and swordmasters in general (and Milady/Percival/Rutger in particular): Enemies with the relevant effective weapons (especially Wyrmslayers - as the enemies carry none in the original game) should be more frequent. (I say 1 out of 10-15 enemies after Chapter 9 in Normal, 7-10 after Chapter 5 in Hard, and 3-5 in all Lunatic chapters. The more you advance, the higher the frequency.) This functions as an actual deterrent against overly relying on said overpowered/above-average classes/units. Such weapons can also have hit rate bonuses against said classes too. Bring the hidden weapons from Fates as an another weapon-triangle-neutral weapon, with debuffing as another possible strategy.
• Make player phase oriented units viable: Lilina and Wolt could definitely do with a Concentration Skill which raises their hit rates, dodge, or attack power on player phase. Lilina (and mages in general) could also have skills giving splash damage to surrounding enemies.
• Attack Speed penalties should be easier to get around: I personally advocate for the following formula: Capacity = Constitution + Strength/n + any buff effects (Skills, medicine, or Weapon skill level). That way, characters like Thany and Sue would have more opportunities of using better weapons with less (or even no) Attack Speed penalty. Weapon skills levels can also play a factor in reducing or eliminating attack speed penalty for those requiring lower skill levels, while medicine buffs would be the steroids for wielding capacity.
• Give promotions and hidden weapons to thieves: Basically what FE8 did for promotions. Thieves and Assasins could also be the specialists for hidden weapons. Astor can be the pre-promote.
• Better balancing for Armor Knights: Bump up both base and growth defense for all armor knights. Perhaps even give bonus experience when an armor unit receives no damage, even if the unit in question did not successfully damage the opponent. The Wary Fighter Skill should also be a thing. Perhaps also raise the base hit rates for Lances and Axes. Wendy can also do with a much higher speed/resistance growth in exchange for a slightly lower defense/attack (though still significantly higher than the original game).

4. More opportunities for shopping: Finishing certain chapters should allow you to do your shopping and supply stocktake. By storyline accounts, I would expect Roy's army to stay in, say Ostia after Chapter 8, or Aquleia after Chapter 16, for more than a couple of hours before being on the move again, so why is that not reflected in the original game? Bonus experience points at these key points (as a form of training inside the temporarily garrisoned barracks) should also be a thing.

 

I'll have to think of the storyline later.

Edited August 11, 2017 by henrymidfields

[Just call me AL]

All I can think of at this point is giving Roy and Lilina a sort of special conversation that happens in the 2nd chapter of the Ilia/Sacae route split; Chapter 18. With the context in said conversation having notable differences based on where the conversation takes place. Like for instance, maybe have Lilina reminisce about her life, and comment on the plains during the Sacae version of Chapter 18.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Just call me AL

[Harvey]

On 09/08/2017 at 8:56 PM, henrymidfields said:

The RNG system needs to be revamped to lessen the risk of being RNG-screwed and the game made unplayable. I probably would make Normal mode similar to how one of the Tellius games added the "average points" onto a character's stats for each level up. Alternately, I would skew the game to possibly allow another dice roll for any unraised stats in the first roll upon levelling up. (Maybe not all the time, but for example, when a stat remained the same for any previous two level ups in hard, and four in lunatic. For normal, the "roll again" can apply on every level.)

I don't get how a lot of people are able to bash at the RNG here unlike me back then....

But even so, RNG isn't the problem. Its rather the unreliable hit rates that are the main problem.

On 09/08/2017 at 8:56 PM, henrymidfields said:

Finishing certain chapters should allow you to do your shopping and supply stocktake. By storyline accounts, I would expect Roy's army to stay in, say Ostia after Chapter 8, or Aquleia after Chapter 16, for more than a couple of hours before being on the move again, so why is that not reflected in the original game? Bonus experience points at these key points (as a form of training inside the temporarily garrisoned barracks) should also be a thing.

Personally, I don't think shops were that limited. Sure, they are a bit costly but you're better off just buying iron swords and lances since again, the game has hit rate issues.

 

[ping]

On 9.8.2017 at 5:26 PM, henrymidfields said:

1. Better system for RNG-Proofing: The RNG system needs to be revamped to lessen the risk of being RNG-screwed and the game made unplayable. I probably would make Normal mode similar to how one of the Tellius games added the "average points" onto a character's stats for each level up. Alternately, I would skew the game to possibly allow another dice roll for any unraised stats in the first roll upon levelling up. (Maybe not all the time, but for example, when a stat remained the same for any previous two level ups in hard, and four in lunatic. For normal, the "roll again" can apply on every level.)

The additional roll seems like a more impactful variant of Shadow Dragon's dynamic level-ups (that afaik haven't appeared in any other game, not even FE12), although without negative feedback for a blessed character. I'm honestly not convinced - I see it as a needless complication of a nice and easy mechanism. It's basically an indirect growth rate increase, and you'd get comparable results by just, well, directly increase them. ;)
It would be interesting to see if your mechanism would make the probability curve more narrow (in which case I would have to eat my words), but I suspect it would really just move the average a bit higher.

In addition, I don't see RNG screwage making the game unplayable or unwinable. There isn't any growth unit that's 100% required and irreplaceable, and it's extremely unlikely that all of your growth units are horribly unlucky. And even then the game throws enough units at you that don't even need growths to function - especially, but not limited to Perceval, Milady or Niime.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Personally, I don't think shops were that limited. Sure, they are a bit costly but you're better off just buying iron swords and lances since again, the game has hit rate issues.

Isn't the shop in the battle preparation menu 50% more expensive or something like that? Anyway, on hard mode, it disappears completely so that you can only buy and sell during the fight and that is really dumb. It's a huge improvement in the newer games (i.e. FE8 and following) that you can shop freely and without penalty before you start a fight.

[Magical Glace]

2 hours ago, ping said:

The additional roll seems like a more impactful variant of Shadow Dragon's dynamic level-ups (that afaik haven't appeared in any other game, not even FE12), although without negative feedback for a blessed character. I'm honestly not convinced - I see it as a needless complication of a nice and easy mechanism. It's basically an indirect growth rate increase, and you'd get comparable results by just, well, directly increase them. ;)
It would be interesting to see if your mechanism would make the probability curve more narrow (in which case I would have to eat my words), but I suspect it would really just move the average a bit higher.

It actually sounds a bit more like the Blossom skill in the Tellius games, just without the EXP penalty and on everybody.

Tbh, I don't really see it as necessary.  It seems a lot less complicated to just directly increase the growthrates if you dislike them as they are.  What he suggested basically just makes a 40% growth a 64% (0.4 + (0.6 x 0.4) = 0.64), with other growths following a similar calculation.  Personally I think a few characters *cough cough WOLT I swear I'm not just being biased hack* could stand for a minor bump in growths and a good bump in bases, but I'd rather just boost them manually and not complicate the system.

[Armagon]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Its rather the unreliable hit rates that are the main problem.

You could argue that for any game tho.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Sure, they are a bit costly but you're better off just buying iron swords and lances since again, the game has hit rate issues.

Iron weapons are shit after a certain point in the game. But they are among the least expensive. But still, you're better off buying Killer Weapons and Steel Weapons.

3 hours ago, ping said:

Isn't the shop in the battle preparation menu 50% more expensive or something like that?

I don't know about prices but the battle preparation menu shops were extremely limited in what they sold. The only sold the basic stuff, so Slim/Iron Weapons, Fire, Heal, and a healing item. Basically, aside from Heal and the healing items, the stuff the menu shops sold were basically worthless.

[henrymidfields]

8 hours ago, ping said:

It would be interesting to see if your mechanism would make the probability curve more narrow (in which case I would have to eat my words), but I suspect it would really just move the average a bit higher.

In addition, I don't see RNG screwage making the game unplayable or unwinable. There isn't any growth unit that's 100% required and irreplaceable, and it's extremely unlikely that all of your growth units are horribly unlucky. And even then the game throws enough units at you that don't even need growths to function - especially, but not limited to Perceval, Milady or Niime.

Isn't the shop in the battle preparation menu 50% more expensive or something like that? Anyway, on hard mode, it disappears completely so that you can only buy and sell during the fight and that is really dumb. It's a huge improvement in the newer games (i.e. FE8 and following) that you can shop freely and without penalty before you start a fight.

Well, I've heard some horror stories in regards to stats from other members who previously played FE6, and I've also heard that this is an ongoing issue in the franchise as a whole. Do you have an opinion in regards to Fixed Mode used in one of the Tellius games?

[Harvey]

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

You could argue that for any game tho.

Uh no. The axes here are horrible and compared to the other games, its very...very noticeable here. Atleast in other games, its not really a problem because its more or less about the unit rather than the weapon hit rates themselves.

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

Iron weapons are shit after a certain point in the game. But they are among the least expensive. But still, you're better off buying Killer Weapons and Steel Weapons

In terms of accuracy though, steel weapons are horrible. Milady starts off with a steel lance and she already suffers hitting something at that point that you might as well give her an iron lance instead.

11 hours ago, ping said:

In addition, I don't see RNG screwage making the game unplayable or unwinable. There isn't any growth unit that's 100% required and irreplaceable, and it's extremely unlikely that all of your growth units are horribly unlucky. And even then the game throws enough units at you that don't even need growths to function - especially, but not limited to Perceval, Milady or Niime.

The game still gives you a ton of horrible units though and has some serious balancing issues. There is practically no reason to use units like Ogier, Geese, Gonzales, Treck, Noah, Lot, Wade, all the armor units you get, Sophia, Fae and I can go on. Reason for this is either because of terrible timing, extremely low bases for units that show up middle or late.

 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Quote

The game still gives you a ton of horrible units though and has some serious balancing issues. There is practically no reason to use units like Ogier, Geese, Gonzales, Treck, Noah, Lot, Wade, all the armor units you get, Sophia, Fae and I can go on. Reason for this is either because of terrible timing, extremely low bases for units that show up middle or late.

These are really no useless units.

• Lot has decent bases and growths and combat usefulness till endgame. Your typcial #1 choice for Armads.
• Same goes for Noah and mounted units FTW in FE6. 
• Treck is the worst cav. but still not useless.
• Fae has sick boosts and is easily to train. Each kill gives her like one level.

Even Ogier is ok since it's sword emblem but unfortunately he is in the wrong class. If he was a myrm, he'd be a lot better. 

I'm almost wondering why you haven't mentioned Lilina and especially Hugh. Why the fuck burning lots of money for a mediocre mage!?


I'm sure I metioned it already, but I will say it again.
There's a balance patch of FE6 in this forum which fixed the hitrates of axes, lances and bows and gave some units better bases and growths.
So there's absolute no reason for a remake of this game.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Reimu Hakurei

[ping]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

I don't know about prices but the battle preparation menu shops were extremely limited in what they sold. The only sold the basic stuff, so Slim/Iron Weapons, Fire, Heal, and a healing item. Basically, aside from Heal and the healing items, the stuff the menu shops sold were basically worthless.

I can actually see the design logic behind that - the player is supposed to buy the advanced weapons during the chapter themselves, and the battle prep shop is only meant to be an emergency aid if they forgot to stock up. The iron tier weapons are still enough to make a unit function, even if killer weapons are superior most of the time.
€dit: I think it worked quite well in FE8, where the player could almost always go shopping on the world map before starting a chapter. But I have to say that I still prefer the Tellius way of just completely moving the shops into the battle prep menu.

5 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Well, I've heard some horror stories in regards to stats from other members who previously played FE6, and I've also heard that this is an ongoing issue in the franchise as a whole. Do you have an opinion in regards to Fixed Mode used in one of the Tellius games?

@bolded: I never use it myself, but I think it's a decent option for players who dislike the random stats FE has. I probably would have loved it back when I started to play FE7 and 8, since I would plan what units I would use and what supports I would go for in advance, but right now, I prefer to choose my units as they grow - and if I have to leave a unit behind because it got Str- and/or Spd-screwed, so be it.
Still, I really understand the idea of reducing the randomness of character stats. And for that, fixed mode is probably the easiest solution. An other idea that I can think of right now is a variant of the pre-rolled level-ups Fates does on lunatic. But instead of pre-rolling the level-ups individually, randomize the stat that the unit will have at level 20/20 and make the level-ups so that the stat grows evenly. Like, if a unit would proc a stat X times until the level cap, make it X +/- 4, or X +/- 10%.
That way, units would still turn out differently in every playthrough, but you'd a) avoid the whole "don't proc the 60% growth 10 times in a row" shtick and b) give the player an indication how a unit would turn out, since the growth curve would be relatively linear. OTOH, this idea might fall under the "needlessly complicated" lable, as well. ;)

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

The game still gives you a ton of horrible units though and has some serious balancing issues. There is practically no reason to use units like Ogier, Geese, Gonzales, Treck, Noah, Lot, Wade, all the armor units you get, Sophia, Fae and I can go on. Reason for this is either because of terrible timing, extremely low bases for units that show up middle or late.

Your point being...?

I'm honestly not interested to repeat the discussion about the good, the bad and the ugly things that come with FE6's balancing approach. Yes, not all units are equally viable; no, the list of unusable characters is not as long as you keep suggesting (on normal mode it has precisely zero entries), etc. pp. blabla.

But the discussion was not about how good or bad characters are, it was about how much random level-ups can fuck up a playthrough. And while an individual unit might be unlucky enough that the player will be better off without it, the cast as a whole allows the player to beat the game even with extremely unlucky level-ups. It is literally proven that the game is winnable even if every single level-up is an empty one - just check dondon's playthrough on youtube.

Edited August 11, 2017 by ping

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Uh no. The axes here are horrible and compared to the other games

Axes were pretty terrible in Jugdral too. Unless it's like, the Pugi in Thracia 776.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Milady starts off with a steel lance and she already suffers hitting something at that point that you might as well give her an iron lance instead.

Or you could 

A: promote her. She joins at Lv.10 and you should have a spare Elysian Whip (at least i do).

B: buy her a Killer Lance, which i'm pretty sure they sell in the chapter she joins. There's an arena right next to it if you need to grind for gold.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

There is practically no reason to use units like....Fae

Fae is required for Ch.24 and Endgame. So yes, there is reason to use Fae.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

There is practically no reason to use units like.....Noah.....all the armor units you get.......Sophia

I don't man. I mean, i always use Noah for a bit, Douglas sticks around a bit longer, and Sophia is my main Shaman. I don't even do this as a challenge, this is just instinct for me. For my regular playthroughs, i always use these three units mentioned here.

40 minutes ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

I'm almost wondering why you haven't mentioned Lilina

Lilina is a pretty decent unit. Super easy Supports with Roy and great magic make her a pretty powerful mage. She is a bit of a glass cannon on the physical side, but so are most Mages. She does join at Lv.1 but it's early enough to where it really isn't a problem. In Ch.8, there's these set of stair where Archers will spawn for a few turns. Basically just trap the Archers and have Lilina murder them all. Easy level ups.

48 minutes ago, Reimu Hakurei said:

There's a balance patch of FE6 in this forum which fixed the hitrates of axes, lances and bows and gave some units better bases and growths.
So there's absolute no reason for a remake of this game.

This is a terrible argument. For starters, not everyone likes to use emulators, and that's the only way to play Binding Blade in English at the moment. Second, that balance patch is fan-made. There is a lot of reasons to remake Binding Blade, especially if future remakes get the Echoes treatment.

Saying that Binding Blade shouldn't be remade is like saying Genealogy shouldn't be remade because there already exists an English patch.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, ping said:

Your point being...?

I'm honestly not interested to repeat the discussion about the good, the bad and the ugly things that come with FE6's balancing approach. Yes, not all units are equally viable; no, the list of unusable characters is not as long as you keep suggesting (on normal mode it has precisely zero entries), etc. pp. blabla.

But the discussion was not about how good or bad characters are, it was about how much random level-ups can fuck up a playthrough. And while an individual unit might be unlucky enough that the player will be better off without it, the cast as a whole allows the player to beat the game even with extremely unlucky level-ups. It is literally proven that the game is winnable even if every single level-up is an empty one - just check dondon's playthrough on youtube.

my point was that good luck finding tons of people accepting your point of the RNG balance because by theory, that is partly to be blamed for the game's balance.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Axes were pretty terrible in Jugdral too. Unless it's like, the Pugi in Thracia 776.

Compared to FE6....not really. The axe users you get are so few that its not really an issue and only one of them is average and not even that bad. 

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Or you could 

A: promote her. She joins at Lv.10 and you should have a spare Elysian Whip (at least i do).

B: buy her a Killer Lance, which i'm pretty sure they sell in the chapter she joins. There's an arena right next to it if you need to grind for gold.

Grinding Milady to compensate for the hit rates for steel weapons doesn't work either since again, the steel weapons are bad. And killer lances..ok but they have low uses that its even more frustrating for that and grinding money on a ranked run is itself not recommended.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Harvey