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Interdimensional Observer

How Would You Tweak Awakening?

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4 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Sorry 'bout that, Inty, we'll be more careful in the future. The time limit for necroposting is…three weeks, right?

one month and off the front page of topics, but as far as warns go it's pretty much the dumbest

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Most of mine have already been covered:

-No ambush spawns. Simple. I'm really happy that the latest two FEs have moved away from these again.

-Tweak pair up in some way. In Awakening it's too rewarding to use, too costly to stop using (essentially costs the actions of both units)... the game favours it like mad and it results in a game which feels easier than it should, not to mention less fun to me because I enjoy my FE to have 10-15 units, and Pairup makes it so I have half that many in practice (and also have constant RNG dual strike/guard affecting battles).

-Focus on fewer supports of higher quality, do not force all opposite-sex supports to end romantically, do not let certain characters get almost entirely shut out of supports. Chrom and Sumia with their ~5 marriagable supports makes an excellent template even if you want to keep the kid mechanic in.

-Generally improve the Valm arc; as has already been covered, Yen'fay is a total disaster in particular. He is afraid that his sister will die so he fights the army his sister is part of? Nonsensical.

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13 hours ago, Topaz Light said:

Give Grima and Validar existent motivations and non-cardboard personalities.

The thing with that is, sometimes people are just bad. Sometimes they do bad things and they never monologue about why they do them. Do we really need to know why they are doing that to want to stop them? It may not be the best from a story perspective, but it still works in line with how the real world functions.

Spoiler

Plus, I headcanon that Grima's motivation is that it thinks it is perfect as that was why it was created. If it is perfect, then why leave the inferior beings alive? Validar is just a crazy cultist who has been raised to believe that Grima should destroy everything. Character building not necessary. 

 

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A minor thing but I would like there to be legit secret characters. For instance, the "Village Maiden" Chrom marries if the requirements to marry the others weren't fulfilled should've been a fully realized character with a unique portrait, and can only become playable if she's Chrom's wife. Not sure what class she would be, but I like the idea of secret characters in this series.

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10 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

A minor thing but I would like there to be legit secret characters. For instance, the "Village Maiden" Chrom marries if the requirements to marry the others weren't fulfilled should've been a fully realized character with a unique portrait, and can only become playable if she's Chrom's wife. Not sure what class she would be, but I like the idea of secret characters in this series.

I think I have the perfect name for her: Letena.

The problem with secret characters is that we live in the age of the Internet- they ain't stayin' a secret for long with many. I think Stefan was balanced around being so difficult to discover on your own (though he's also balanced from a gameplay perspective beyond that).

11 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

The thing with that is, sometimes people are just bad. Sometimes they do bad things and they never monologue about why they do them. Do we really need to know why they are doing that to want to stop them? It may not be the best from a story perspective, but it still works in line with how the real world functions.

I understand what you're saying, but Valibarf still has grounds for criticism. Even if he's bad for badness's sake, he is also utterly incompetent, and the combination of atrocious design, lack of good motivation, and ineptitude renders him cartoonishly awful. Manfroy gets a pass because for a while he conquered the world, just like a certain somebody else much loved... :kefka: . And :Valter: gets a pass because if we leave out that cursed lance backstory (which many will miss out on), he is evil for evil's sake, but very bloodthirsty, psychotic, and an actual threat in how he does it all. So if you're going to be evil for the heck of it and higher than a generic chapter boss, have some other quality to back it up.

As for Grima, well they've gotten a fair touchup recently, so that's good for them. The complaining about Mr. "My Brand Looks Like a Prison Tramp Stamp" will die down and only apply to Gimle (the Japanese name isn't half bad) as they appear in Awakening by itself I think.

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The original timeline ought to be the one the game's about, I'd honestly like them to completely ditch the time travel plot. All it serves to do is remove tension and stakes from the narrative, preventing it from having any emotional weight after the first third of the game. Awakening's plot is by no means great, but I'd like to see it executed with some sincerity and pathos. I also think that your cool myUnit becoming the last boss would be genuinely clever.

Speaking of Robin, they occupy a space between empty vessel and full character. They have the foundations of a character worth exploring, we get hints of their all-consuming sense of duty and fear of intimacy, and I'd like to see this fleshed out better.

This is probably common, but I'd like the number of supports to be limited. Understanding who these characters have the potential to get along with humanizes them.

Puritanically refusing to let supports get romantic before the S also creates terrible pacing that I'd like to see discarded. Obviously, gay S-Supports should be a thing.

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7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I think I have the perfect name for her: Letena.

The problem with secret characters is that we live in the age of the Internet- they ain't stayin' a secret for long with many. I think Stefan was balanced around being so difficult to discover on your own (though he's also balanced from a gameplay perspective beyond that).

What does Letena mean? All I can find was "claw" or "paw"

I know they won't stay a "secret" for long, but I like the idea of certain characters that only join if certain conditions are met, like Stefan.

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Just now, Dandy Druid said:

What does Letena mean?

Reference to the Fire Emblem clone TearRing Saga made by Shouzou Kaga, the father of the Fire Emblem series, for the PS1 (it never left Japan, but you can emulate it and it has a complete English translation).

Letena is the name of a Cleric girl in the game, she is the lover of the game's Cain archetype and the only unit who can use the Silence staff (which disables all enemy magic for 1 turn). To recruit her requires several little things be done over the course of the game, and even if you recruit her, if you chose not to pick her brother Ezekiel as one of your 2 Marlon units (you only get to recruit 2 out of 5 of them on any playthrough), she will leave your team far before the game is even over unless you kill her lover. In other words, Letena is somebody few would ever stumble upon accidentally, and thus a perfect secret character.

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33 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reference to the Fire Emblem clone TearRing Saga made by Shouzou Kaga, the father of the Fire Emblem series, for the PS1 (it never left Japan, but you can emulate it and it has a complete English translation).

Letena is the name of a Cleric girl in the game, she is the lover of the game's Cain archetype and the only unit who can use the Silence staff (which disables all enemy magic for 1 turn). To recruit her requires several little things be done over the course of the game, and even if you recruit her, if you chose not to pick her brother Ezekiel as one of your 2 Marlon units (you only get to recruit 2 out of 5 of them on any playthrough), she will leave your team far before the game is even over unless you kill her lover. In other words, Letena is somebody few would ever stumble upon accidentally, and thus a perfect secret character.

Omg those conditions. SHE'S PERFECT. The fact that she can potentially leave too is funny as well.

I think a random playable Chrom's wife would be a secret for a while, because most people tend to pair him up with Sumia, Robin, or Olivia, but by now I guess people would know about her and she'd be thrown into the Chrom Concubine Wars or whatever that happens on Reddit with this topic.

Now I'm realizing that I should watch a playthrough of Tear Ring Saga or something.

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If I could change awakening, I'd:

-Give units supports who clearly should have had them, especially the robinsexuals.

-Remove the valm arc. It was the weakest one and didn't really add much to the overall story.

-Either add or expand story that has to do with the relationship between ylisse and plegia. Chrom's father did some terrible things, if I recall. The first arc was more interesting to me than the others. I don't know how you would intertwine it with the grima storyline though. Maybe they're better off as two separate storylines.

-Give snipers close counter as a high level skill. Seriously. It'd also be a buff to bow knights.

-Give Griffon Riders galeforce as well. Because it barely has purpose as it is. It also allows some first gen males to get it. And instead of them being balanced, perhaps tweak their stats so that they're more offense oriented than defense.

-Give tricksters a higher magic cap

-Give war clerics a slightly higher strength and magic cap

-Give Say'ri and Flavia kids besides morgan. Maybe limit their choices in spouses so that they make sense.

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Oh man. I totally forgot about Supports. I'd give Say'ri, Flavia, Basilio, Tiki, Anna, and the SpotPass 6 at least 5 Support partners and a child character for all the female Units and probably some of the male Units - as I've mentioned in other threads and maybe on this one too, it drives me nuts that there are literally only two Gen2 Units with Sibling Conversations.

Say'ri would keep her Supports with Tiki and Robin, and be able to Support with Yen'fay and Lon'qu from Gen 1 and Owain from Gen 2. Obviously, I've left her still very limited in terms of S-Supports, with only Lon'qu and Male Robin as possible S-Supports(unless you guys really really wanted to put her with Owain, I guess…?), but I would probably find at least one other Male character as an option, I just don't have any off hand right now(this applies to everyone on here btw). She would, of course, get a child character, who would likely be a Siegbert type of character, anxious about being prepared(or helping his/her future self prepare) to one day take command of Chon'sin. As for child's name, I got nothing, but there's probably an apostrophe in there somewhere.

Flavia would keep her Supports with Robin and Basilio, but would gain a possible S-rank on her Supports with Basilio(let's be honest, it's kind of weird that theirs is the only non-sibling Male/Female Support pairing that can't go past A), and would gain Supports with Sully, Lon'qu, and Vaike from Gen 1, and Kjelle from Gen 2. Still left limited for S-Supports, but she now has the one we all thought she would(Basilio) plus the only two Gen 1 males that I think make sense for her, Lon'qu, who I'm assuming would be more used to her than most other women, and Vaike, who…I don't really know why, it just seems right to me. Either way, this brings her to 4 S-Support possibilities, a bigger amount than Say'ri's proposed 2. She would of course also get a child character, probably a brawler type of person who wants to be the best in the world to make his/her mom proud. No clue on child's name.

Basilio would keep his Supports with Robin and Flavia, gain the abovementioned S-rank with Flavia, and gain Supports with Lon'qu, Gregor, Olivia, Sully and Maribelle(because just imagine that pairing) from Gen 1 and Yarne from Gen 2(because I want to see this), giving him 5 S-Support options total and the Support with Lon'qu we were all wondering why we didn't get plus Gregor because I at least was wondering how Gregor knew Basilio as well as he did during his Support with Lon'qu. I would probably give him a child character who was ironically very much a quiet/shy pacifist just because. Again, nothing on names.

Tiki would probably be the least tweaked character here, keeping her five Supports with Robin, Anna, Say'ri, Lucina, and Nah, and only adding Nowi and Panne. I can't really think of a good fit for her as an alternate S-Support, however, so I'm not sure what to do there. She would for sure get a child character, probably a bubbly little Manakete with a similar personality to Nowi as this is pretty much the opposite of Tiki's own personality, who I would name Raintu.

Anna would keep her Supports with Robin and Tiki, and would likely add Gaius and Olivia from Gen 1 and Cynthia from Gen 2. Only 2 S-Supports, but the non-Robin one makes the most sense out of the entire cast to me, with Anna convincing Gaius to 'obtain' cash for her in exchange for sweets. She would of course have a daughter who is either completely uninterested in money or even more of a schemer than Anna herself. This daughter would, of course, be named Jessica.

Emmeryn would keep her Robin Support and gain Supports with Chrom, Lissa, Gangrel, Frederick, and Libra from Gen 1 and Owain and Lucina from Gen 2. I mean…come on. She doesn't have Supports with her family? What the heck, IS? Chrom and Lissa were obviously going to be Supports, and yet…nothing. Owain and Lucina get included because nephew and niece, and Emmeryn would also be given a Support from whoever Chrom's other child ended up being. Frederick and Libra are mostly there because who else were you planning on having marry Emmeryn? I can't think of anyone else who'd really fit her. Gangrel…well, this should be obvious - he of course has decided he feels bad about the whole execution thing and tries to make it up to her. I have mixed feelings about whether this should be allowed to reach S-rank, though. She would get a child character who is most likely very protective of his/her mother, whose name I once again got nothing for.

Gangrel would of course keep the Robin Support and then add on Supports with Emmeryn, Aversa, Chrom, and Lissa from Gen 1 and Lucina from Gen 2. Emmeryn's was covered before, Chrom's and Lissa's would most likely involve Gangrel trying to figure out how to better rule or some such, Lucina's would probably have to do with Gangrel trying to figure out what happened to his future self in her timeline and proceeding from there, and Aversa…well, I can't think of anyone else who I would S-Support him with - as I mentioned before, I have mixed feelings about Emmeryn-Gangrel being allowed to hit S-rank, and Lissa-Gangrel is if anything even more debatable. I probably wouldn't give him a child character, though.

Aversa would keep Robin's Support and add Gangrel, Tharja and Henry from Gen 1 and Noire, Cynthia and possibly Gerome from Gen 2. I mentioned Gangrel's already, Tharja's and Henry's would most likely be centered around dark arts, Noire's would definitely be centered around dark arts, and Cynthia's…well, let's go with she needs a villain for all her hero-ing. Admittedly, only 2 new S-rank options, but eh, could be worse. Her child character would most likely either follow in her footsteps as a flirty, seductive type of person or else be completely uninterested in humans in general.

Walhart would keep Robin and tack on Chrom, Tharja, Miriel, Lon'qu, and Cherche from Gen 1 and, uh…I honestly have nobody I can think of adding from Gen 2. Chrom's Support would go further into the differences between the 'Path of Kings' and the 'Path of Conquerors' mentioned in his recruitment Paralogue, Lon'qu's would have to do with becoming stronger, Tharja and Miriel's would each focus on the fact that to all intents and purposes Walhart is dead yet still hits people like a tank(and can somehow still father children to boot) - I mean, come on, that's an enigma and Miriel gets a hard-on for those so why DIDN'T they do that, and as for Tharja the dark magic implications…meh heh heh. Cherche is mostly there because I would love to see that considering her interesting tastes and his interesting ideals. I'm on the fence about giving him a child character - Conquest is a great Skill that honestly shouldn't be passed on to anyone because it just helps more to break this already broken game, but I do want more children for male Units plus the possibilities Walhart's theoretical child brings up are just too good to ignore.

Yen'fay would gain the Say'ri Support I mentioned earlier, and also gain Supports with Libra, Lon'qu, Olivia, and Panne from Gen 1 and Owain from Gen 2. Not much to say here as I don't particularly like Yen'fay all that much - Libra's would involve Yen'fay feeling as though he needs spiritual help to overcome his guilt involving Say'ri, Olivia's would involve Olivia trying to cheer Yen'fay up, Lon'qu because I feel like there should be Supports between Lon'qu and Yen'fay and Say'ri because it feels like there's some kind of backstory there, Panne because I have no idea, it just feels like what the heck.

Finally, Priam. Priam would gain Supports with Sully, Chrom, Vaike, Donnel, Lon'qu, Cordelia, and Gregor from Gen 1 and Owain, Brady, Kjelle, and Noire from Gen 2. Bet you can't guess which of the characters I want more Supports for is my favorite. Anyways, all his Supports would of course involve either Priam wishing to learn more fighting styles from the Support partner or wishing to bequeath his knowledge upon said Support partner.

I'd add more, but I've gotta go, so…yeah.

Edited by SoulWeaver
Evidently I cannot count to save my life

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What I would do differently is 

  • Lower the level cap growth rates to fates standards.
  • Chrom has a story promotion at chapter 10
  • Make some non important characters contribute to the story/  have a moment in the spotlight. Virion can have a part in Valm. Tharja can play a part in explaining Grima originn or why people follow him. etc.
  • In chapter 21. The ways to make Lucina to back down is for Robin to have a A or S rank with her or Chrom
  • In the  endgame, the only people that can defeat Grima are Chrom, Robin, or Lucina in ten turns before everyone is thrown off. Which character gives the final blow will change the ending. Similar to  defeating Ashera or Duma.
  • Make the pair-up system  closer to Fates.
  • No same turn reinforcements. 
  • Add a magic triangle to  balance magic.

That's all of the ideas I have how. Some of the  other ideas mentioned in the thread works to. What Awakening really needs is some polishing. 

Edited by Jingle Jangle

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To make it decent at least? Well

- I would pull a Steins;Gate move on the topic of time travel and paradoxes. So that after Lucina, and the children save the future none of the parents remembered they did it, and that they cease to exist after saving the world. Where the only person who remembers is the Avatar (queue emotional soundtrack).

- Robin should be a separate entity than Grima, of present or future.

- From what it seems Grima has knowledge on his counterpart from the timeline where Lucina failed, that would mean he somehow stupidly messed up even with that kind of knowledge. They should change things so that Grima managed to follow back Lucina through time to also help his past self, but in the secret. When Robin and Chrom succeed in defeating Grima of their timeline, the Grima of old comes to rule from the past with his full power, trying to leech on to the world, but of course not even he is powerful enough to do such a thing. Robin, and Chrom will fall hard form the first attack from such an insanely powerful entity, but they take advantage of Grima's weakened state to end them hi permanently and erase any existence or influence he could leave behind.

- Of course some things need obvious changing as well such as item-usage limits on swords, lances, axes, bows, and tomes.

- More creative maps with more challenging features. Better PvP system like Fates, and less broken skills (Galeforce--)...etc.

 

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13 hours ago, Logos said:

- I would pull a Steins;Gate move on the topic of time travel and paradoxes. So that after Lucina, and the children save the future none of the parents remembered they did it, and that they cease to exist after saving the world. Where the only person who remembers is the Avatar (queue emotional soundtrack).

I can't agree with that! That would completely destroy the entire point of marrying Mini-Bae!

…Not to mention ruin a major idea for a story I've been working on...

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On 8/19/2017 at 0:46 AM, Logos said:

To make it decent at least? Well

- I would pull a Steins;Gate move on the topic of time travel and paradoxes. So that after Lucina, and the children save the future none of the parents remembered they did it, and that they cease to exist after saving the world. Where the only person who remembers is the Avatar (queue emotional soundtrack).

- Robin should be a separate entity than Grima, of present or future.

- From what it seems Grima has knowledge on his counterpart from the timeline where Lucina failed, that would mean he somehow stupidly messed up even with that kind of knowledge. They should change things so that Grima managed to follow back Lucina through time to also help his past self, but in the secret. When Robin and Chrom succeed in defeating Grima of their timeline, the Grima of old comes to rule from the past with his full power, trying to leech on to the world, but of course not even he is powerful enough to do such a thing. Robin, and Chrom will fall hard form the first attack from such an insanely powerful entity, but they take advantage of Grima's weakened state to end them hi permanently and erase any existence or influence he could leave behind.

- Of course some things need obvious changing as well such as item-usage limits on swords, lances, axes, bows, and tomes.

- More creative maps with more challenging features. Better PvP system like Fates, and less broken skills (Galeforce--)...etc.

 

Well, Tiki says they aren't, and other than being able to tap into the same power pool and both dying if Grima does, they don't seem to be the same, just connected. Grima says they are, but I don't think Grima is the most reliable source on this matter. In fact, Tiki says that Robin has power like hers suggesting that Robin is more of a herald of Grima rather than Grima.

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16 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, Tiki says they aren't, and other than being able to tap into the same power pool and both dying if Grima does, they don't seem to be the same, just connected. Grima says they are, but I don't think Grima is the most reliable source on this matter. In fact, Tiki says that Robin has power like hers suggesting that Robin is more of a herald of Grima rather than Grima.

I thought he was Grima but not yet unleashed, but now that I think about it it does make more sense if he was a vessel for the entity Grima, but then it doesn't make sense the way Lucina referred to him as if he was Grima himself.

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The story is a hot mess, so trying to tweak it would be really hard.  "Overhaul" might be a better word.  Time-traveling kids is a nifty idea, though.  If they wanted to introduce said kids earlier (before their moms got married), maybe show them as silhouettes, with question marks for their name.  There's nothing that says that their moms had to get hitched to someone in the army!

I really liked the idea of "unlimited mostly everything, including convoy space".  Perhaps make it so that Streetpass units can only sell store-bought, non-forged weapons in the future?

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6 hours ago, Logos said:

I thought he was Grima but not yet unleashed, but now that I think about it it does make more sense if he was a vessel for the entity Grima, but then it doesn't make sense the way Lucina referred to him as if he was Grima himself.

Well, I doubt she knows the intricacies of how all this works that well. Not to mention with all the emotions running rampant would likely make her jump the gun. Though I honestly don't remember her referring to Robin like that. The only time the two ever seemed to mention it was chapter 21 and that was more about Robin being Chrom's killer as the Grima thing was yet unknown.

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

The story is a hot mess, so trying to tweak it would be really hard.  "Overhaul" might be a better word.  Time-traveling kids is a nifty idea, though.  If they wanted to introduce said kids earlier (before their moms got married), maybe show them as silhouettes, with question marks for their name.  There's nothing that says that their moms had to get hitched to someone in the army!

I really liked the idea of "unlimited mostly everything, including convoy space".  Perhaps make it so that Streetpass units can only sell store-bought, non-forged weapons in the future?

I honestly don't think it was that bad. Seems pretty par for the course actually. It had plot holes and lore issues, but 2000+ years is a long time and a lot can happen (like who knows what Grima did to the Fire Emblem before the first Exalt sealed him perhaps the reason it could awaken Grima was that it was used to help seal him in the first place). The plots holes are more of an issue, but nothing's perfect and I still like it at least.

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21 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I honestly don't think it was that bad. Seems pretty par for the course actually. It had plot holes and lore issues, but 2000+ years is a long time and a lot can happen (like who knows what Grima did to the Fire Emblem before the first Exalt sealed him perhaps the reason it could awaken Grima was that it was used to help seal him in the first place). The plots holes are more of an issue, but nothing's perfect and I still like it at least.

I felt that there was too much going on in the story at once.  Had this been three separate games, I think it would've flowed a lot better.  That way, a lot of missing things could be filled in (how the Grimleal took over Plegia, what Chrom's dad was like, etc.).

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

I felt that there was too much going on in the story at once.  Had this been three separate games, I think it would've flowed a lot better.  That way, a lot of missing things could be filled in (how the Grimleal took over Plegia, what Chrom's dad was like, etc.).

Eh, maybe, but at the end of the day, this game made me feel; it got an emotional response. Not really sad as I don't tend to feel sad for fictional characters, but there are points that get/got me pumped. In the main story there are mainly two: the end of chapter 10 and the endgame (I also like in Rogues and Redeemers 3 when Chrom says it's time to make some new legends; it's as if they are fighting their way to stand amongst the pantheon of the past characters). I don't think any other Fire Emblem has ever done that. That's not the only reason to like it, but it seems like a decent reason to me.

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2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Eh, maybe, but at the end of the day, this game made me feel; it got an emotional response. Not really sad as I don't tend to feel sad for fictional characters, but there are points that get/got me pumped. In the main story there are mainly two: the end of chapter 10 and the endgame (I also like in Rogues and Redeemers 3 when Chrom says it's time to make some new legends; it's as if they are fighting their way to stand amongst the pantheon of the past characters). I don't think any other Fire Emblem has ever done that. That's not the only reason to like it, but it seems like a decent reason to me.

I agree, and also I must say the dialogue in Awakening from time to time (especially form Chrom and Robin) felt so appropriate and neat. Whereas in Fates dialogue is completely boring, and feels unnecessarily extended or sometimes just awkward.

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4 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Eh, maybe, but at the end of the day, this game made me feel; it got an emotional response. Not really sad as I don't tend to feel sad for fictional characters, but there are points that get/got me pumped. In the main story there are mainly two: the end of chapter 10 and the endgame (I also like in Rogues and Redeemers 3 when Chrom says it's time to make some new legends; it's as if they are fighting their way to stand amongst the pantheon of the past characters). I don't think any other Fire Emblem has ever done that. That's not the only reason to like it, but it seems like a decent reason to me.

The Plegia arc was cool IMO, and I would've loved to see a lot more between Chapter 10 and 11.  The Valm arc left me scratching my head, and the final arc was "is it over yet?".  Then again, I'm kind of weird when it comes to stories. . .

2 hours ago, Logos said:

I agree, and also I must say the dialogue in Awakening from time to time (especially form Chrom and Robin) felt so appropriate and neat. Whereas in Fates dialogue is completely boring, and feels unnecessarily extended or sometimes just awkward.

If we're going with straight words, I have a deep respect for Shadow Dragon (see: half of what comes out of Marth's mouth).  In terms of making those words mean something, that's the Tellius saga - as much as I rag on it, there were some genuinely great things that happened in the story.  Awakening didn't have that kind of impact on me.

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17 hours ago, eclipse said:

The Plegia arc was cool IMO, and I would've loved to see a lot more between Chapter 10 and 11.  The Valm arc left me scratching my head, and the final arc was "is it over yet?".  Then again, I'm kind of weird when it comes to stories. . .

If we're going with straight words, I have a deep respect for Shadow Dragon (see: half of what comes out of Marth's mouth).  In terms of making those words mean something, that's the Tellius saga - as much as I rag on it, there were some genuinely great things that happened in the story.  Awakening didn't have that kind of impact on me.

Well, you did just admit you were weird. Honestly, as much as people harp on Chrom, I think he plays the charismatic leader well (much better than Corrin who has no charisma). It actually makes the split of leadership make sense somewhat. When he talks, whether corny or not, it's usually good in some way whether it's entertaining or charismatic. And I actually like act three. The endgame was one of the best in my opinion if not the best in the series (of the ones I've played at least) and I'll admit that the music had a lot to do with it. I love that build up of Id (return) into Id (purpose). I also loved the Basilio reveal. Meanwhile, the older games just seem kind of...boring in comparison. Maybe it's because I don't empathize very well with fictional characters and that they usually seem to try for more sad moments (at least that's what comes to mind: Matthew and love interest, Lyon's "tragic" plot, what's his face loving his reanimated wife's corpse) instead of exciting moments, but they just never really did it for me. I had to pretty much force myself through Shadow Dragon. Perhaps it just boils down to what you prefer in a plot.

Edit: The last main chapter of Echoes did make me feel excited, but the overly tedious map quickly soiled that.

Edited by Arthur97

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