Can someone explain how the gameplay in Echoes differs from the traditional Fire Emblem games?

[Volttekka]

I've been playing since they released Sacred Stones, so the whole system is firmly ingrained in my mind.

But for whatever reason, there's just too many different variables in this game for me to fully wrap my head around.

My main questions are:

• Is the combat mostly the same?
• Is the weapon triangle still a thing?
• How do the "learned skills" on weapons function?

[Whitewolf8]

Combat's mostly the same, yeah, biggest differences I can think of currently are magic costing HP instead of needing tomes (Aside from Nosferatu, that drains HP as it should), 1-3/1-5 range archers, terrain bonuses being a very big factor and...

Nope, wasn't in the original game, and it isn't here.

...No idea on weapon skills, only what I recall from the original.

[Xeph]

Yea combat is pretty similar, much more importance towards terrain because of the immense bonuses that they give. 

Most weapons have skills linked to them that you unlock as a character uses the weapon. As far as I know the skills are linked to the weapon so you need to keep the weapon equipped in order to use the skills attached to it. 

[BlizzardWolf95]

Is the combat mostly the same? Yes, though you may find it easier to double attack (and in turn, get double attacked) often, as they changed the calculation for doubling back to how it was in Gaiden (+1 Speed is all you need over an enemy to double, and it applies to enemies as well).

Is the weapon triangle still a thing? No, and this makes the game both simpler and more complex, as it means there are no blatant advantages in unit match-ups, so strategy is arguably more important here.

If a unit learns a skill from a weapon, they have it permanently, but can only use the skill if the weapon they have equipped can access that specific skill. Switching the weapon over to someone else does not carry the weapon's exp, nor any skills with it. Same can be applied to magic spells, once you change a mage to a cleric, or vice versa, no magic carries over.

Edited May 12, 2017 by BlizzardWolf95

[Volttekka]

2 minutes ago, Xeph said:

Yea combat is pretty similar, much more importance towards terrain because of the immense bonuses that they give. 

Most weapons have skills linked to them that you unlock as a character uses the weapon. As far as I know the skills are linked to the weapon so you need to keep the weapon equipped in order to use the skills attached to it. 

Interesting

The skills linked to the weapon, do they have to be applied to combat? I'm mostly asking because if it forces them to be applied then any weapon with Mercy is useless for actual combat.

[Xeph]

Just now, Volttekka said:

Interesting

The skills linked to the weapon, do they have to be applied to combat? I'm mostly asking because if it forces them to be applied then any weapon with Mercy is useless for actual combat.

No, the weapons skills, or Arts is what the English release calls them, are a separate command when you are moving units around. It's not a percent activation rate like it is in the other games. 

[BlizzardWolf95]

1 minute ago, Volttekka said:

Interesting

The skills linked to the weapon, do they have to be applied to combat? I'm mostly asking because if it forces them to be applied then any weapon with Mercy is useless for actual combat.

It costs HP to use any skill, I don't believe there are any passive ones, but ones that could be considered passive still have to be manually activated (those cost 0 hp).

[Volttekka]

Ah, that's a relief, I wasn't sure how it worked since I've been basically keeping myself in a media blackout regarding Echoes
 

[Xeph]

1 minute ago, Volttekka said:

Ah, that's a relief, I wasn't sure how it worked since I've been basically keeping myself in a media blackout regarding Echoes
 

I see, I had a feeling that was the case when this website has all that data already listed XD

[Volttekka]

Just now, Xeph said:

I see, I had a feeling that was the case when this website has all that data already listed XD

Yeah, I see all the data, but without watching any gameplay I have no context for how any of it works

[Xeph]

Just now, Volttekka said:

Yeah, I see all the data, but without watching any gameplay I have no context for how any of it works

Yea that's true, also I'm assuming you didn't play the original as well right?

[Volttekka]

Just now, Xeph said:

Yea that's true, also I'm assuming you didn't play the original as well right?

Nope, haven't played any of the Japan-only ones

[Xeph]

Just now, Volttekka said:

Nope, haven't played any of the Japan-only ones

I enjoy them greatly, hopefully Echoes is very successful and they remake the Snes games, those are my favorite. 

[Armagon]

15 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

It costs HP to use any skill, I don't believe there are any passive ones, but ones that could be considered passive still have to be manually activated (those cost 0 hp).

There are actually passive skills: https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/miscellaneous/skills/

Some of the passive skills include stuff like Bowrange+1 and 2 for Archers/Snipers/Bow Knights, Banish Terrors for Falcon Knights, and some passive skills are obtained via weapons such as Null Critical, which you get from Mila's Ring.

[BlizzardWolf95]

9 minutes ago, Armagon said:

There are actually passive skills: https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/miscellaneous/skills/

Some of the passive skills include stuff like Bowrange+1 and 2 for Archers/Snipers/Bow Knights, Banish Terrors for Falcon Knights, and some passive skills are obtained via weapons such as Null Critical, which you get from Mila's Ring.

Ah right, I keep forgetting those are skills because of how most are just integrated into the classes.

[Ertrick36]

To add to what's been said, there are certain levels where all units except fliers are forced to move at a terrific rate of one space per turn.  Sounds fun, right?

There's a grocery list of things that are different, but most gameplay changes are more gimmicks than they are changes to the core mechanics of FE.  I don't think this will feel like a spin-off in the way that TMS or FE Warriors do, but it'll probably be like the difference between FE Fates and FE Blazing Blade (the game before Sacred Stones, in case you're unaware).

Edited May 13, 2017 by Ertrick36

[Armagon]

25 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

To add to what's been, there are certain levels where all units except fliers are forced to move at a terrific rate of one space per turn.  Sounds fun, right?

Echoes' desert maps are the best.

That's a joke. Fuck Echoes' desert maps. Desert maps were never good to begin with and they are at their worst in Echoes. Outside of, the desert maps that come close to being as shit as Echoes' desert maps are Ch.11 in Mystery of the Emblem (it's a desert map and a majority of the enemies are Flying Dragons), Ch.7 in Genealogy of the Holy War (deserts do not work well in Horse Emblem, and that's not counting the fact that the desert is filled with Fenrir-casting Druids, and Fenrir in FE4 is a long-range spell), and Ch.14 in Binding Blade (desert map+Fog of War).

Thracia probably has a bullshit desert map as well but i never played past Ch.3

Echoes is still a good game, it's just that the desert maps are easily the worst part of the game (and the series). 

[L9999]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Echoes' desert maps are the best.

That's a joke. Fuck Echoes' desert maps. Desert maps were never good to begin with and they are at their worst in Echoes. Outside of, the desert maps that come close to being as shit as Echoes' desert maps are Ch.11 in Mystery of the Emblem (it's a desert map and a majority of the enemies are Flying Dragons), Ch.7 in Genealogy of the Holy War (deserts do not work well in Horse Emblem, and that's not counting the fact that the desert is filled with Fenrir-casting Druids, and Fenrir in FE4 is a long-range spell), and Ch.14 in Binding Blade (desert map+Fog of War).

Thracia probably has a bullshit desert map as well but i never played past Ch.3

Echoes is still a good game, it's just that the desert maps are easily the worst part of the game (and the series). 

The desert map in Celica route with all the archers might be the worst map in the entire series. Everyone except Catria and Palla move only 1 space. Right at the gate you have mercenaries ready to kill your ass, nobody can double them and they take lot of hits. The archers hit from too far away and the only one way to fight them is with a spell that often misses and the only 2 units that can use it die in 2 hits from the archers, but the archers don't die because of how magic damage is scaled in Gaiden. On enemy phase they get free hits because the developers didn't thought of making Thunder equippable in enemy phase. And the boss. He has ridiculously high stats, he can hit from too far away, 1HKO the only units who can move across the map, and it is almost impossible to approach due to all the annoying archers and the desert. Even if you get to him undamaged he can hit at any range. What. Were. The Developers. Thinking?

Edited May 13, 2017 by L9999

[Armagon]

7 hours ago, L9999 said:

On enemy phase they get free hits because the developers didn't thought of making Thunder equippable in enemy phase.

This part is understandable due to the HP Magic Cost. Like, imagine if you had Ragnarok equipped. It takes like, what, 12 HP to use? So imagine losing 12 HP every time during the enemy phase, and eventually, running out of HP to use Ragnarok.

That being said, i agree with everything else you said, but at the same time, i didn't find that map to be that hard. More of just, tedious.

[L9999]

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

This part is understandable due to the HP Magic Cost. Like, imagine if you had Ragnarok equipped. It takes like, what, 12 HP to use? So imagine losing 12 HP every time during the enemy phase, and eventually, running out of HP to use Ragnarok.

That being said, i agree with everything else you said, but at the same time, i didn't find that map to be that hard. More of just, tedious.

Ragnarok is understandable, but Thunder is relatively cheap, why couldn't that be equipabble too? A map doesn't have to be hard to suck ass.

Edited May 13, 2017 by L9999