Jump to content
Harvey

Should classic mode still be a thing for FE?

Recommended Posts

Reading this topic title after almost 24h still disturbs me.
Seriously FE wouldn't be FE without permadeath.


Why did Heroes have no permadeath?
(sry, I have no knowledge about its gameplay)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, L9999 said:

The thing you are looking for is "gitgud", there is no middle ground.

B - but, I already cleared those games (FE6-7-8) on all modes without deaths uWu..

13 hours ago, DragonLord said:

Let's be honest. If you are playing Blazing Blade on any of the Normal Modes and your characters are underleveled, it's probably because you didn't spread the EXP across your units, and that's on you. I started the series with FE6 (I'd argue a more difficult game than FE7) without consulting a guide on strategy, and I had the common sense to make sure none of my units I wanted to use were lagging behind.

That's understandable. And I'm generally not suggesting a revival feature be introduced to make the game easier. After all, I've also completed runs by using only a small fraction of the character pool anyway - you need to mess up hard to really reach a dead end (assuming you restart if a battle goes horribly wrong anyway). After all if you really started messing up badly, 3-5 revivals through the entire game wouldn't be enough to help you.

It's mostly for the purpose of, after going through a half-hour chapter, when one of your guys gets killed by a lucky crit on a counterblow by the boss, you can just progress knowing you can revive him later, rather than have to replay the whole chapter just to reroll that dice. I at least would be ok with knowing I could get away with this a couple of times. Otherwise permadeath is perfectly fine for me.

edit:

2 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Reading this topic title after almost 24h still disturbs me.
Seriously FE wouldn't be FE without permadeath.


Why did Heroes have no permadeath?
(sry, I have no knowledge about its gameplay)

Heroes has you gradually earn units by using premium currency. If it implemented real permadeath, then you could lose units you paid real money to obtain. That would be a terrible business policy.

Anyway Heroes just has small pitched 4 vs 3-5 battles in tiny maps. When your unit dies it loses out on any XP / SP it had earned in that map before dying (even levels), so I guess that's their equivalent.

Edited by Nightmayre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m confused about this question because the obvious answer for me is “yes”.  I consider “Classic” to be Fire Emblem’s default and I don’t see a point to removing it.  I’m not going to comment on Phoenix mode, but Causal and Classic should both stay.  I think it’s great that more players can access the series without fearing perma-death while older fans can still play the way they want.  What gets to me more is people trying to justify removing Casual mode.

3 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Reading this topic title after almost 24h still disturbs me.
Seriously FE wouldn't be FE without permadeath.

Why?  It's just a discussion topic.  I seriously doubt perma-death is actually going away in the main games.

Edited by Spoiler Alert
Forgot a word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Reading this topic title after almost 24h still disturbs me.
Seriously FE wouldn't be FE without permadeath.


Why did Heroes have no permadeath?
(sry, I have no knowledge about its gameplay)

Do you really want permadeath in a game that relies on random summons that you can pay real money for?

It's also probably illegal due to gambling laws somewhere to implement permadeath outside of self-contained events like the upcoming one.  Don't quote me on that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Reading this topic title after almost 24h still disturbs me.
Seriously FE wouldn't be FE without permadeath.


Why did Heroes have no permadeath?
(sry, I have no knowledge about its gameplay)

There is going to be a "perma death" mode added in. You lose a unit for those set of maps, etc.

But an actual perma death mode would suck in a game where you pay for random summons to get a unit. Literally 60 bucks gone while training my Julia or Ninian? No thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be honest with you, this question is a bit ridiculous, but I will answer it anyway.

I personally think that Fire Emblem 11 and 12 had a great compromise. Perma-death, but the game gives you a savepoint or 2 per map and I think it's good for minimizing frustration while still keeping the game challenging. I know Echoes has a "time reversal" mechanic, but i haven't played the game at the time of typing this to really know how fair or how much of a good compromise that is. Radiant Dawn had infinite battle saves on lower difficulties, which I feel like is a flaw design. Personally, I feel like my ideal compromise is to give the player 3 battle saves per map on Normal, 2 per map on Hard, and 1 per map on Lunatic.

The only game that shouldn't have traditional Perma-death is Heroes, and that game would be garbage and tank super hard if that were the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

There is going to be a "perma death" mode added in. You lose a unit for those set of maps, etc.

But an actual perma death mode would suck in a game where you pay for random summons to get a unit. Literally 60 bucks gone while training my Julia or Ninian? No thanks.

I think that Heroes perma death mode will have a big reward prize comes along with it, like 1 or 2 units may be killed forever but you'll get enough orbs to roll for 3-4 units more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

I think that Heroes perma death mode will have a big reward prize comes along with it, like 1 or 2 units may be killed forever but you'll get enough orbs to roll for 3-4 units more.

I believe permadeath in Heroes just kills them within that permadeath mode, and you can still use them outside of that mode whenever you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Godhand said:

I believe permadeath in Heroes just kills them within that permadeath mode, and you can still use them outside of that mode whenever you want.

Maybe it's a type of survival mode, you try your best to reach as far as you can with all your units die one after another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Maybe it's a type of survival mode, you try your best to reach as far as you can with all your units die one after another.

Killing a unit forever for 15-20 orbs ensures no one will ever touch that mode except with duplicate and low rarity units.

Killing a unit forever in heroes is bad because money is involved. You can't reset with something like that.

It being a survival mode makes much more sense.

I literally had to be reassured by my fiance that I didn't do stupid things by spending money on orbs. Killing a unit outside that mode permanently is a bad decision.

The way you're describing the perma death is that if you let a unit die in a regular fe game, not only are you forced to save, but that unit is dead for that play through and others until you buy another copy of the game.

Not even most ironman players would agree to that.

Edited by shadowofchaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

There is going to be a "perma death" mode added in. You lose a unit for those set of maps, etc.

But an actual perma death mode would suck in a game where you pay for random summons to get a unit. Literally 60 bucks gone while training my Julia or Ninian? No thanks.

Quote

Do you really want permadeath in a game that relies on random summons that you can pay real money for?

It's also probably illegal due to gambling laws somewhere to implement permadeath outside of self-contained events like the upcoming one.  Don't quote me on that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Quote

Heroes has you gradually earn units by using premium currency. If it implemented real permadeath, then you could lose units you paid real money to obtain. That would be a terrible business policy.

Anyway Heroes just has small pitched 4 vs 3-5 battles in tiny maps. When your unit dies it loses out on any XP / SP it had earned in that map before dying (even levels), so I guess that's their equivalent.

Woah... that makes ... sense... to disable permadeath under these mentioned circumstances.
Idk that real money is a thing here.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but all I've got for this topic is this. Casual Mode is an option, Classic mode, is also an option, you're allowed to choose right away. If you don't like one mode, then don't play it, simple. No need to force everyone to one mode just because of new features and modes that make the game easier, that's just Nintendo making it so everyone can enjoy the game instead of one audience. Same deal goes for the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe controversy. By the end of the day, the new features are merely options, not necessities. Nobody's forcing you to rewind a turn, nobody's forcing you to play on Casual or Classic, not even elitists.

5157670+_e7fe6ff962df3b529407eb2a53446c5b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/18/2017 at 5:31 AM, Harvey said:

But by doing that, this makes classic mode all the more irrelevant and more of just a challenge only suited to niche FE fans out there.

"Niche"? You forget, that's still a huge portion of the fanbase. And it isn't just the pre-3DS fans, either. A lot of people who only joined in during the Awakening boom still play on classic; the challenge is a major selling point for the series! Plenty of my friends just didn't have access to the series before that point, or didn't know about it, and enjoy the strategy aspect of the games just as much.

Here's my solution: Left 4 Dead-style closet revivals. Find a janitor's closet on a map, and you can pull any of your dead allies out of it. You know, like how they do in Canada!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tibarn's Distracting Lisp said:

"Niche"? You forget, that's still a huge portion of the fanbase. And it isn't just the pre-3DS fans, either. A lot of people who only joined in during the Awakening boom still play on classic; the challenge is a major selling point for the series! Plenty of my friends just didn't have access to the series before that point, or didn't know about it, and enjoy the strategy aspect of the games just as much.

Here's my solution: Left 4 Dead-style closet revivals. Find a janitor's closet on a map, and you can pull any of your dead allies out of it. You know, like how they do in Canada!

Shadows of Valentia actually does this. Obviously, a carry-over from Gaiden, but yeah. There are resurrection shrines. You can bring 9 units back from the dead in a playthrough, which really should be more than enough.

It makes me wonder, though. FE1 and 3 had the Aum staff, which could bring back 1 unit, FE2 has resurrection shrines, which could bring back 3 units at a time, and FE4 had the Valkyrie staff, which could possibly(Not really practical, though) resurrect everyone.

Makes me wonder why after 4 games in a row, IS hasn't put in any way to resurrect dead units in any other games outside of remakes. Seems like it'd be a no brainer for the babbs who want to play classic, but don't want to reset after deaths. It'd be helpful in bridging the gap between Classic and Casual.

Edited by Slumber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Makes me wonder why after 4 games in a row, IS hasn't put in any way to resurrect dead units in any other games outside of remakes.

Conquest and Revelation have the Bifrost staff, but it is a lot more restricted than the Aum staff. But still, not many games give you the option to resurrect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkDestr0yer61 said:

Conquest and Revelation have the Bifrost staff, but it is a lot more restricted than the Aum staff. But still, not many games give you the option to resurrect.

But it's an interesting mechanic to keep playing around with in future titles, though. It'll be a tough thing to re-implement with casual and (potentially) phoenix mode sticking around, but who knows, maybe some breakthrough miracle solution will come out of it. Perhaps a hard classic mode with a mode-exclusive resurrection mechanic limited to a rare item, or something? (I'm no programmer, sorry if that sounded dumb, LOL.)

Now, here's the worst possible idea I can come up with: get rid of casual and phoenix mode, and put in microtransactions so that you can pay to buy one unit back at a time. And they're pulled randomly from your pool of dead units, gachapon style. AND they come back with their original starting inventory and skill loadout. Does that sound sufficiently awful? I hope so (=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Shadows of Valentia actually does this. Obviously, a carry-over from Gaiden, but yeah. There are resurrection shrines. You can bring 9 units back from the dead in a playthrough, which really should be more than enough.

It makes me wonder, though. FE1 and 3 had the Aum staff, which could bring back 1 unit, FE2 has resurrection shrines, which could bring back 3 units at a time, and FE4 had the Valkyrie staff, which could possibly(Not really practical, though) resurrect everyone.

Makes me wonder why after 4 games in a row, IS hasn't put in any way to resurrect dead units in any other games outside of remakes. Seems like it'd be a no brainer for the babbs who want to play classic, but don't want to reset after deaths. It'd be helpful in bridging the gap between Classic and Casual.

Again, I think it's due to Kaga left the company, so they tried not to use his ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...