Thabes Labyrinth - Stupidly Broken?

[Anomalocaris]

I was only playing on Normal, but I did beat Thabes on my first foray.

It was difficult, though, especially because on Floor 9 I wound up battling three enemy groups at the same time, all of which included Fire Dragons and two of which included Bow Knights...

That being said, the only reason I managed to win was because my Saber had gone from Dread Fighter to Villager and was capped in almost all his stats. Had some really bad summons from The Creation, though, including a Dagon getting spawned right next to a bunch of my more fragile units.

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

hi i beat thabes on hard/classic with no intentional grinding, no forges, no pitchfork, no dread loop, and minimal running away from encounters within the lab

final party was alm, celica, saber, dread kliff, delthea, luthier, saint faye, silque, genny, tatiana

i also got through the entire thing like five things, the BF10 boss is the worst part by far with these rules

saints are godly, most of the super-nasty stuff later is weak to seraphim. against the stuff that isn't, warp+speed ring delthea+rescue lets you get some solid damage off on turn 1 while things approach. casters in general and mage ring trading are your friends; with the exception of entombed and dread fighters most things have huge defense and mediocre resistance. silver is the best sword unforged; roundhouse is required to do decent damage to white dragons and deimos. benchmark for speed on dread fighters is 34 after encumbrance; the fastest things i saw were deathgoyles who clock in at 33. they hit like wet noodles relative to the rest of the lower floors though so you can bait them with alm or by carrying a shield.

if you just want to clear it without caring about conducts, field bow knights and make parthia, from what i hear shooting the endboss with it won't aggro him which makes the thing incredibly easy. without high-end bows you pretty much have to spam Rescue while retreating from it and efficiently killing the reinforcements while it eventually chases you to the back of the map.

[Jotari]

On 5/23/2017 at 2:03 PM, Leonarth said:

Anyone who's beaten the game and has gotten to Act 6 probably knows about the Thabes Labyrinth. Just a question, has anyone who plays on Hard/Classic gotten to the end? I'm on the 8th floor (I think there's 10 total), but the enemy stats are so ridiculous that no one on my team can withstand more than a round or two of combat, and I just got screwed hard with 3 groups at once. There are 4 fire dragons and a shit ton of other enemy types. I know this is supposed to be the penultimate dungeon, with the whole point of it being stupidly hard, but this isn't even fair or funny at this point. We're talking enemies with stats being around 25-35 on average, meaning that anyone who wasn't subject to the Dread Fighter grinding cycle or someone who got stupidly lucky with their level-ups have 0 chance of surviving. I'm starting to think the best thing to do at this point is just run past everything in a perfect run and pray to whatever deity you believe in that you don't get stuck in combat.

Wait penultimate? Is there another post game dungeon I don't know about?

[Finian]

On 5/23/2017 at 1:03 AM, Leonarth said:

Anyone who's beaten the game and has gotten to Act 6 probably knows about the Thabes Labyrinth. Just a question, has anyone who plays on Hard/Classic gotten to the end? I'm on the 8th floor (I think there's 10 total), but the enemy stats are so ridiculous that no one on my team can withstand more than a round or two of combat, and I just got screwed hard with 3 groups at once. There are 4 fire dragons and a shit ton of other enemy types. I know this is supposed to be the penultimate dungeon, with the whole point of it being stupidly hard, but this isn't even fair or funny at this point. We're talking enemies with stats being around 25-35 on average, meaning that anyone who wasn't subject to the Dread Fighter grinding cycle or someone who got stupidly lucky with their level-ups have 0 chance of surviving. I'm starting to think the best thing to do at this point is just run past everything in a perfect run and pray to whatever deity you believe in that you don't get stuck in combat.

I'm sorry, but it's just a pet peeve of mine when people misuse "penultimate." The word means "second-to-last."

"Ultimate" means final. Thabes labyrinth is the *ultimate* dungeon.

[Kahvi]

I honestly feel like Thabes isn't all that difficult, just tedious. I got to level 5 (hard/classic) and then Alm got killed by devil axe. I'll probably just try rushing to the end next and try getting all the other stuff later. That, or go grind.

[Avi448]

 Beated it with no grinding, no pitchfork, or DF loop. HM Classic

 

 Just get one or two BK (Leon and Python) and give them forged Killer Bows, then learn Hunter's Volley. GG the entire thing and thank me later

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Got around to finishing tackling this on Sunday using a team that generally promoted early (unless I felt too lazy to risk spawning more random crap while I ran back to a shrine), didn't willfully grind and never used the Turnwheel. I took a very MMO approach in that I'd purposefully aggro an enemy, kite them back to the very edge of their range and engage them. This let me generally pick off groups one at a time without issue (sometimes a second inexplicably joined the battle from across the room, though). This worked great while I could have Alm and Saber distract/weaken certain units while my artillery battery of 2x Mage Ring Priestesses (Celica and Delthea; Mae had comparable Atk, but about 8 less Spd, unfortunately) and 2x Killer Bow Bow Knights (Leon and Python). Once I reached the 8th floor and my first pull had 28-Skl Snipers that couldn't be outranged and even had listed crit on Delthea's super Luk, I realized I couldn't keep doing this.

Thanks to the repetitive nature of the maps, stealthing these later floors wasn't too daunting, aside from that one room with the breakable wall with what's presumably fountains behind it (I ignored it because breaking in would make way too much noise) and, for me, a spawn of 2x Dread Fighters and a Deimos. Their detection range seems to actually be rather small, though, so I was able to just YOLO away right behind their backs after a bit of time observing their patterns.

Since I had neither a Parthia or a Longbow, nor Rescue, Grima was actually really scary and the only time I actually strategized around having the Turnwheel. A lot of my units were at risk of dying either from getting doubled, crit or just not quite having enough HP if they used their Arts. Still, to win, I had to take some risk. Pulled Grima forward six tiles, which was important because it put him near that cluster of four Pillar tiles. This would allow my ranged to go at him and have a much greater chance of survival (except Celica, who had no listed crit on her and just enough HP to tank a hit and double with Excalibur without dying or losing her second strike). RNG of note is Leon needing to dodge one of two 51%s, which he did, and this was after critting one of two 59% crit chances. Celica landed a single Excalibur crit (2x 52% chances). Alm then met Grima's derp by flubbing critting on two 50% chances (if either happened, Grima would've died exactly). This left me considering the Turnwheel, but I had Delthea (would get one hit in, then need a 41% dodge, then a second hit) and Python left (could Hunter's Volley, then get doubled and need to dodge two 39%s because either would one-shot him), so I figured, "What the hell, if I'm gonna Turnwheel, let's at least see what they roll" (I had no idea anyone other than Alm could land the finisher because God status). Delthea lands a 30-damage crit on a 20% chance on the first strike for the finish. GG, Grima.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[joshcja]

4 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

What are the numbers for enemy stats in Thabes? I read, but couldn't confirm that there are 30 speed Dread Fighters, which seems punishing for people who didn't 20/20 and/or purchase Inner Sanctum (Star Jancith).

Speed only matters on mages in lab and Delthea exists so none of this is worth worrying about.

Lab no Dlc/nogrind is still pretty simple with good party composition.

Edited July 5, 2017 by joshcja

[Avi448]

 Seriously, Hunter's Volley makes Grima waaayyy too easy. You can do up to 100dmg in one single combat reliably because 57%crit is pretty good itself. And if you've got another Bow Knight then GG. And even, EVEN if he's still alive. You just warp Alm, trade for a Killer Bow and finish him off. I defeated him on turn2 with No Grinding HM Classic

Edited July 5, 2017 by Avi448
typo

[Res]

After reading this thread I was a little scared of attempting Thabes, but I beat it today on Hard/Classic.

I had done some grinding but you definitely don't require the overclasses to beat the dungeon - and I'm far from being a great player. 

First attempt I got all the way to level 9, had three groups of enemies attack at once and lost Celica to a devil ax - my fault for being so careless. Next attempt was much easier since I took care not to be blindsided by enemies, but I didn't avoid them, either. I do know I missed the chest with the boots the second time round, though.

Alm and Celica were maxed level 20 before I started, so I tried not to use them. I only used Celica for healing and Alm helped fend off some enemies in the last battle only. 

Final team was Genny (lvl 10 Saint), Mathilda (lvl 14 Gold Knight), Lukas (lvl 5 Baron), Python (lvl 12 Bow Knight), Clair (lvl 18 Falcon Knight), Grey (lvl 14 Dread Fighter), Delthea (lvl 12 Priestess) and Kliff (lvl 18 Bow Knight). Delthea and Genny had maybe one kill each, they were mostly relegated to healer status.

[Dogla]

OMFG I JUST COMPLETED IT AND AM SO RIDICULOUSLY RELIEVED!!!

I attempted this dungeon (Hard/Classic) immediately after the story without additional grinding/overclasses (my 3ds memory is just about used up due to switching storage focus/SD-cards, so no more DLC than the Cipher pack for me) and was so appalled by the difficulty spike; I have to say that I felt it was unfair and stupidly broken, however we are talking about postgame content wherein developers want you to commit as much additional playtime to the game as possible even if most of it is grinding, so it's understandable. I tend to want to flesh out games to their full extent generally, so this dungeon gave me a HELLUVA hard time, but it's to be expected that an RPG has you grind some more to achieve that whereas for example hack-and-slashers just need you to git gud (preferable imho, but as I said if works with the genre).

I didn't have anywhere near as much trouble completing Lagdou Ruins if you even dare compare that or Apotheosis though. Up until floor 7 was perfectly manageable but then... omgwtfbbq. I had to navigate hella carefully from there on and if I got caught in an ambush just turtle until retreat. Never even came across the dragon room on B9F, thank Naga.

And then the final battle: gods just wow. Even the mooks were stupidly OP, I mean 95HP on generic Barons wth! Anyway, with a lot of careful positioning, Combat Arts and Turnwheel abuse, slowly but surely I made my way up to Grima... and then I attacked with Celica and got crit fffuuuuuu-! Attempt two: turtled and abused my way up and had Python (only Bow Knight I brought) sitting in his range, Physicing him up while he Ward Arrow'd the Death!Arcanist that spawned on the left, keeping it from killing whoever. Few lucky crits from him and unlucky crits from Grima later and I just zerked the fkr, resulting in 3 deaths, but hey I haven't used any resurrection springs yet anyways, pfew.

In conclusion: yes, I think it's stupidly broken, but it's something to be expecting fearful for when you get to any RPG's postgame glares ominously at Battle Tree.

So: never again Thabes, pfew! Now to finally view that Memory Prism, then get back to Fates and wrap that sucker up. :)

[Res]

Yes the dragon room on level 9 was... interesting.

[Jotari]

I didn't really find Thabes that difficult to be honest (granted I had Alm and Celica in overclasses and I think one dreadfighter. Maybe Tobin). It's more tedious that it takes seven floors before you get to the actual challenging bit.  Personally I found spamming Longbows immobilise skill to be the most effective tool at my disposal (even more so than Killer Bows since my Bow Knights were rather weak). It effectively takes one enemy out of combat for the following round so they can come at you in a more reasonable rate (Freeze would also have been effective but you need to reclass or have DLC to get that). Tiger stance is also hella useful for taking out basically enemy enemy in two hits.