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Thabes Labyrinth - Stupidly Broken?

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Just now, Armagon said:

I figured it was required. And also, does that mean i can't beat it, leave the dungeon to save, and come back, because it'll respawn? They thought of everything if that's true.

Yeah, you can't cheese that particular encounter. It's a bit rough, but once you remember the pattern it becomes routine.

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Actually just beat Thabes on Hard/Classic prior to writing this post.

My first foray in the other day took me to floor 5, where I beat the dragon boss and wussed out after getting the shield. I didn't go farther until later- I wanted to try out the Dread Fighter -> villager grind thing. (Works amazing, by the way, the first floor is perfect for this.) So then I had two good dread fighters (Saber and Gray maxed out Attack, Skill, and Speed, Saber maxed out Defense as well at a whopping 42. holy crap.) and also a one that could hold his own against a few enemies in a row instead of groups at a time. I tell you: even with those good stats, I couldn't have beaten the dungeon without spamming the hell out of Hunter's Volley and ESPECIALLY Tigerstance (Zweihänder OP). One tigerstance from those guys could one shot any dragon. Not any enemy, some of the baddies have absurd caches of HP, but every dragon. 

Had some trouble with the dragon fight for the springs on floor 9 regardless, but made it through. Considered evacuating afterwards, but pressed on.

Unfortunately, the last boss could have been harder. I had half of my 12 rewinds left after using half on the dragons, and I had Gray and Saber clear a path and Kamui (my decent dread fighter) cover everyone's rear on the other side. 

Very important info about the boss that i would have liked to know under the spoiler, and the method I used to beat him in the second spoiler.

Spoiler

Despite having the "God" creature type, The Creation is NOT  only killable by weapons with the Deicide ability, i.e, Alm's Falchion. He is killable by any weapon, including Zweihänders.

Spoiler

Even though all damage is halved against him, a critical hit on a Tigerstance can still hit the 120 damage upper limit. Two can end him with damage to spare, but two crits in a row isn't the most likely thing to happen.

 

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2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I figured it was required. And also, does that mean i can't beat it, leave the dungeon to save, and come back, because it'll respawn? They thought of everything if that's true.

You most certainly can leave, save, and come back without it respawning once it is defeated. I've borne witness to this fact myself.

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On 5/23/2017 at 1:46 AM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

 

The whole thing might just be to sell the Overclasses, honestly.

 

How has everyone not put two and two together? I've been saying this on other sites that this is the case and that Thabes Labyrinth is the worst dungeon in the game and was just put in to justify the overclasses.

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People don't not get it. Peeps having a problem with how stupid the dungeon is doesn't mean they don't know why overclass exists, even ignoring how completely meaningless and irrelevant it is. Which is why I wager no one even considers it, but that's another thing.

In the time it would take to train your characters, get overclass, class change, train them up again, then take on the dungeon, you could...

Train them, take on the dungeon.
Much less effort, time, and money spent. You're not disallowed to have a problem with something just because there's some """"""""""justification"""""""""" behind it.

Edited by Soledai

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I finally finished the dungeon on... I want to say maybe my 4th try? Then, I forgot to pick up the Memory Prism and went back to get it. While I was under Grima, I thought it'd be funny to take a picture of Alm under Grima (because I hadn't started the fight) and moved around to try to get a good picture, accidentally starting the fight. Rip me.

Although the second time I did it was remarkably easier. I had my lvl. 20 Bow Knight Leon snipe Grima from safety with Parthia's Trance Shot while my other units dealt with the reinforcements. He didn't do a lot of damage per se, but did get lucky with a few crits.

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2 minutes ago, Dolce said:

Although the second time I did it was remarkably easier. I had my lvl. 20 Bow Knight Leon snipe Grima from safety with Parthia's Trance Shot while my other units dealt with the reinforcements. He didn't do a lot of damage per se, but did get lucky with a few crits.

YES. Unless you're cheesing with max stats (which makes Killer Bow better), Parthia is about one of the best investments you can make for the Grima fight imo, since all the Archers you usually have perform very poorly defensively. The safe damage adds up really fast.

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I wouldn't say you absolutely need capped stats, but I do agree that having long range units with good equipment for the dungeon makes it a lot less of a grind. Their ability to snipe from afar means they can get around the ridiculously bulky and hard hitting units that the game throws at you by either weakening or outright killing them before they even touch you. It's one of the reasons I'd say my mages and Bow Knights were my best units in that dungeon whereas I couldn't rely on those like Alm to keep taking hits out of fear they'd get killed by the onslaught.

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6 minutes ago, Medeus said:

I wouldn't say you absolutely need capped stats, but I do agree that having long range units with good equipment for the dungeon makes it a lot less of a grind. Their ability to snipe from afar means they can get around the ridiculously bulky and hard hitting units that the game throws at you by either weakening or outright killing them before they even touch you. It's one of the reasons I'd say my mages and Bow Knights were my best units in that dungeon whereas I couldn't rely on those like Alm to keep taking hits out of fear they'd get killed by the onslaught.

My Alm could actually tank most everything not magic once he reached level 20 Hero. He had like, 28 Def and good Spd.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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I made it to the 10th basement using only one turnwheel on Classic/Hard. 4 units had to be sacrificed to the last boss, but we did it. Went back to resurrection shrines afterwards to revive Sage Kliff, Tatiana, Delthea and Conrad. Don't think I could've done it without sacrifices. Maybe if I had gone merc with the villagers it would've been easier, but its done now.

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The most annoying gimmick of this dungeon for me so far is that you can neither save during the dungeon nor go back to the entrance to save.
If Alm or Celica die, you're really screwed on Casual Mode.
(yes I'm playing on Casual to get to the "true" final boss somehow)

Also I find the design of this dungeon really boring. I thought about a real labyrinth according to the name of this dungeon, but it isn't unfortunately. A straightforward designed dungeons without any puzzles.

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I made it all the way too the boss in one go, warped Atlas at it to see how much damage I'd do, tried to turnwheel back and had the game crash. Needless to say, I was very unhappy. I'm grinding up a few units now to make dragon fighting less painful this time around.

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I just tried going through the labyrinth yesterday. I panicked in B9 and retreated (I could press on, but I've got a few great level ups on the way and I wanted to save them). Those Entombed aren't fun to fight. They can double anyone in my team except my fastest member (Kilff at 39 SPD), and I only have three members (Alm, Faye and Kilff) that can withstand them... provided they don't crit any of the fights. And the Turnwheel can't save you if Alm is the one that's killed.

I have yet to see the Tuenwheel crashing the game, and I kind of doubt they're going to fix it. This game gave me the feeling that they wanted to push it as early as possible because they wanted to work on the Switch version ASAP.

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My Alm could actually tank most everything not magic once he reached level 20 Hero. He had like, 28 Def and good Spd.

My Alm with 30 (+13) DEF says otherwise. Those Entombed love to crit.

On 5/27/2017 at 9:09 AM, Stopwatch said:

You most certainly can leave, save, and come back without it respawning once it is defeated. I've borne witness to this fact myself.

Huh? My experience says otherwise. If you retreat (using the menu) and return, the enemies you previously defeated will be there again.

That said, to a grinded team, the B5 mid-boss is nothing.

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1 hour ago, nocturnal YL said:

My Alm with 30 (+13) DEF says otherwise. Those Entombed love to crit.

I just ORKO Entombed with the Falchion. Don't wanna deal with their ungodly stats. Everything else is fine for Alm though.

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Getting caught in battle in those floors was a royal pain, especially since it was always 2 or 3 groups at least.

Thankfully, I had Gray as a Yasha and he provided a decent wall to keep enemies away until I could retreat out of the battles and continue on.

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8 hours ago, nocturnal YL said:

Huh? My experience says otherwise. If you retreat (using the menu) and return, the enemies you previously defeated will be there again.

My mistake- I was thinking evacuation after winning. 

EDIT: specifically for the floor boss red dragon on B5. Not sure about the dragons on B9.

Edited by Stopwatch

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A buff Saint!Faye can just stand 3 tiles from Alm and Silque and walk forward to clear 90% of lab. For everything else there's bows and entrap.

No grinding required. Balanced unit is balanced.

Edited by joshcja

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Beaten the dungeon.
I have to say that the final map was easier than some generic encounters simply because the final map is just a defeat boss mission.
The boss was really bad on normal mode (couldn't even hit summoned allies). It was easy to oneturn him.
Just had to use invoke in the second turn to drag him out. Three fliers (Palla, Catria, Clair) with forged Gradvius-trading and Alm with forged Falchion were enough to oneturn him.

PS: I didn't grind much.

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I've beaten it on hard/calssic. 

Some simple tips:

  • Killer Bow and Zweihander are cheap and overpowered. Get at least one of each on your team and abuse their abilities
  • Take at least 3 clerics. Warp/Rescue combos are super-useful. Invoke/Silence can disable some enemies for a while
  • A non-obvious thing: entombed are simple terrors. They can be expelled, despite their ridiculous stats. If you have a unit with "Expell" and Faye with "Anew" they pose no problem.
  • Mage ring users (Mae and Delthea in my case) are very useful and efficient

The first time i went up to B8 floor. Then I got scared of my depleted turnwheel and returned. Next time I came with Killer bow instead of Parthia on heavily statboosted Tobin and with Zweihander wielding Gray. The rest of the party were: Alm, Celica, Faye, Tatiana, Genny, Mae, Delthea. I also took Conrad for his pretty good overall stat spread, but he didn't do much. 

Edited by Avestus

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Just place 4 bow knights (killer bow equiped) near the portals and leave the "Mighty Morphin Dread Figthers" (with brave sword) do the job to the dragon while your Alm/Celica chill in the back.

 

Beat it on Hard/Casual.

Edited by TouchMyAstra

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Its not that hard if you know what you're doing. Just create illusions and the enemies will attack those. Keep repeating that and this dungeon isn't really that difficult. The AI is stupid and attacks the weakest target so as long as your units are stronger than the illusions you are summoning, then it shouldn't be a problem 

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All of my units wre level 20 (and no overclasses) I still had massive trouble with it, how crazy is that ? I'll never look at the villagers the same way. :p
And I'm not even talking about the last boat map beforehand that 'kindly' say to you that you are not prepared. Illidan-style.

Thabes is like swamp or desert (huh imagine that), it doen't like you, the things in there doesn't like you, and you'll stay in there quite a bit. Oh, and you might find a treasure if you are bullshit-level of lucky. :p

 

On 26/05/2017 at 3:53 AM, NoNameAtAll said:

Do...people not remember there's a retreat option? Mind you there is one particular Fire Dragon on one of the lower floors (I'm not talking about the floor 5 one) that you can't retreat from but...yeah.

I didn't even know this option existed until recently. :p

Edited by B.Leu

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I just beat the Thabes Labyrinth. Tigerstance and Trance Shot are vital, especially if the users have gone through a loop.

Pro-tip: during the fight against Grima, have some of your units stand on the warp points. This blocks reinforcements. I particularity had Gray block one of the warp points on the top-left of the map, so that he could Tigerstance the Cantor whenever it spawned. As for Kliff, he slowly chipped away at Grima with Trance Shot, dealing 20 damage each time+the occasional crit. I had Alm finish off Grima with a Scendscale. I thought it was fitting enough.

My team consisted of

  • Alm with fully forged Falchion
  • Celica with fully forged Beloved Zofia
  • Saint!Faye with Mage Ring (Faye went through the Villager Loop)
  • Dread Fghter!Gray with fully forged Zweihänder (Gray went through the Villager Loop)
  • Delthea with fully forged Ladyblade (Delthea went through the Villager Loop and it was worth it too, as she maxed out her attack, which was further increased by 10 thanks to the Ladyblade)
  • Bow Knight!Kliff with partially forged Killer Bow, which was swaped for a fully forged Parthia when it was time to fight Grima (Kilff went through the Villager Loop)
  • Saber with fully forged Brave Sword (Saber went through the Villager loop)
  • Mathilda with Gradivus
  • Emma with almost fully forged Trainee Lance (she makes a good Terror slayer)
  • Genny with Blessed Shield (she was the weakest of the group, mainly being there to provide extra long-range healing with Physic and to exploit the AI with Invoke)

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It's so strange that the boss takes effective damage from bows of all things. Sure, you can just wear him down with Trance Shot but give a strong bow to a powerful archer like Alm and they will completely destroy him. It's all kinds of silly that Alm deals more damage against this guy with an Iron Bow then he does with the Falchion.

Edited by BrightBow

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