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Should we have high expectations for the Story?


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I'm going to have at least some expectations. 

Storywise Fire emblem has hit a rather bad streak with Awakening and Fates but I don't see that as a deliberate or permanent trend in the franchise. I feel that the stories of Awakening and Fates were at least partly victims of circumstances. Awakening was the last game in the franchise so they tried to cram in as much as they could, Fates had to juggle three stories and while I don't have any proof I feel very strongly that something weird happened behind the scenes that damaged Fates story. The Hoshidans not being Corrin's family after all and the second gen seem like very, very late additions to the plot. 

With Fates I suspect that at some point the developers started to get cold feet and jumped right into the comfortable shadow of Awakening to alleviate those concerns. The whole skinship debacle also gives an implication that there was some sort of struggle in the development team between ''Team A and team B''.

Echoes may be a sign that IS is back on track when it comes to storytelling. Its not blowing my socks off but its decent and functional without the contrived absurdities of Fates. Saying this is merely because they had the story of Gaiden to work with would overlook the fact that Gaiden barely had a story. 

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16 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Echoes may be a sign that IS is back on track when it comes to storytelling. Its not blowing my socks off but its decent and functional without the contrived absurdities of Fates. Saying this is merely because they had the story of Gaiden to work with would overlook the fact that Gaiden barely had a

How far in are you?

Because it gets worse the further you go.

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Just now, The DanMan said:

How far in are you?

Because it gets worse the further you go.

Not completely done but the end of the game is pretty much in sight. But I know the gist of the complaints in the later half and even experienced part of it myself and for the moment I'm okay with it. Not impressed but not particularly troubled either.

If late game Celica truly is the worst the story has to offer then it remains a decisive step up from Gooron and Corrin.

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It may be my Advance Wars kick talking, but I'd like to see them go back to basics. Tell a story similar in scope to 1, 3/6, or 9 without worrying about being subversive in a dramatic way (like the branching paths) or trying to fit in things that don't flow. That way, they can get their feel back for things like inspiring-but-not-godly protagonists and sinister-but-not-moustache-twirling villains.

A well-told familiar story will sell me on the concept better than a poorly-told original one.

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I would like to distinguish between expect vs anticipate. After more than 10 games in the series I believe we should expect perhaps even demand more in depth plots especially with the upcoming Fire Emblem Switch game coming out it would be a waste of potential for what the Switch could handle. Now there is a LOT that is very good about Echoes, however the plot is not an original one the draft for the story was already there, all they had to do was add more depth and dimension to it. Something anyone can do, so I expect the next Fire Emblem game to have top notch writing whether it's story or dialogue. Do I trust or anticipate that this will happen? No. At least not until they (Nintendo and IS) comes up with an ORIGINAL game and an ORIGINAL storyline and one that delivers. But I do believe we should expect more than what Awakening or Fates gave us in terms of story and writing as a whole. However I'm not going to hold my breath either.

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2 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

It may be my Advance Wars kick talking, but I'd like to see them go back to basics. Tell a story similar in scope to 1, 3/6, or 9 without worrying about being subversive in a dramatic way (like the branching paths) or trying to fit in things that don't flow. That way, they can get their feel back for things like inspiring-but-not-godly protagonists and sinister-but-not-moustache-twirling villains.

A well-told familiar story will sell me on the concept better than a poorly-told original one.

I don't support this idea of wanting them to retread other games' stories - after all, one of the stories I consider the worst in the series did just that. 

That being said, whilst they may have overreached with Awakening and Fates' stories, I don't consider them that bad relative to Sacred Stones's story, which, as far as I'm concerned, was a disaster, or that of Sword of Seals, which was guilty of retreading another game's story.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't support this idea of wanting them to retread other games' stories - after all, one of the stories I consider the worst in the series did just that. 

That being said, whilst they may have overreached with Awakening and Fates' stories, I don't consider them that bad relative to Sacred Stones's story, which, as far as I'm concerned, was a disaster, or that of Sword of Seals, which was guilty of retreading another game's story.

I'm not saying they retread a story- I'm saying they tone down their scale to something along the lines of the mentioned games.

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I have permanently low expectations for FE stories; even the best of them (Radiant Dawn, for me) have some rather glaring issues. They can write decent enough characters and sometimes I get pleasantly surprised by those but yeah I'll never go in with high expectations.

Good thing this series has such amazing gameplay. I'd love it if I felt anywhere near similarly about the story, but so it goes.

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I honestly have low expectations for the FE switch as a whole, not just the story. In that way, I don't think It will be easy to disappoint me in any way(after all, I wasn't expecting much for SoV, but I'm enjoying it a lot both in gameplay and stpru)

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On 5/27/2017 at 9:49 AM, phineas81707 said:

It may be my Advance Wars kick talking, but I'd like to see them go back to basics. Tell a story similar in scope to 1, 3/6, or 9 without worrying about being subversive in a dramatic way (like the branching paths) or trying to fit in things that don't flow. That way, they can get their feel back for things like inspiring-but-not-godly protagonists and sinister-but-not-moustache-twirling villains.

A well-told familiar story will sell me on the concept better than a poorly-told original one.

 

Eh, if all they come up for FE Switch is a Marth retread I'm probably skipping a lot of the plot.  They've already played it pretty safe with a lot of the series so far, having them stick 'the formula' even more isn't going to help much IMO.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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On 26.5.2017 at 11:58 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Not completely done but the end of the game is pretty much in sight. But I know the gist of the complaints in the later half and even experienced part of it myself and for the moment I'm okay with it. Not impressed but not particularly troubled either.

If late game Celica truly is the worst the story has to offer then it remains a decisive step up from Gooron and Corrin.

I agree maybe the story only seemed so good because the one in Fates was so horrible but I really enjoyed it and it kept me invested until the very end. I also think while the main story is not really spectecular the characters are awesome (especially the early game ones like the Villagers, Mae, Boey, usw...) and I credit a lot of it to how well the writing and voice acting worked together. I really don't need a spectecular story (though I wouldn't mind one) if the characters are unique, multidimensional and have enough dialog (which clearly implies that less is more in that case). So overall I was pretty happy with Echoes story and writing and consider it a huge improvement over Fates.

 

On 27.5.2017 at 3:08 AM, I'm a Spheal said:

Never have expectations for stories; you'll be happier that way. Just do what you have to do to make the gameplay experience great; something Shadows of Valentia spectacularly fails at to be quite frank.

I would like to discuss that though that would be too off topic. While I agree that there is some annoying stuff about the gameplay (*cough* caster *cough*) I feel like you could be more specific about what you did not like. I strongly disagree with the gameplay experience being a spectecular failure.

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18 hours ago, MPhoenix said:

I agree maybe the story only seemed so good because the one in Fates was so horrible but I really enjoyed it and it kept me invested until the very end. I also think while the main story is not really spectecular the characters are awesome (especially the early game ones like the Villagers, Mae, Boey, usw...) and I credit a lot of it to how well the writing and voice acting worked together. I really don't need a spectecular story (though I wouldn't mind one) if the characters are unique, multidimensional and have enough dialog (which clearly implies that less is more in that case). So overall I was pretty happy with Echoes story and writing and consider it a huge improvement over Fates

I think a number of people are more okay with SoV's flaws just because it wasn't the nightmare that was Fates' story. I haven't played through the whole game yet but even early on you see similar problems that apeared in Fates.

 

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I'm hoping for the best, but my expectations are not too high. Awakening and Fates were pretty mismanaged in the story department (especially the latter), and Echoes, while an improvement, did have its own share of problems with a good number of them coming from the new additions and changes to the story. So as much as I want for them finally hit their stride and show great improvement with this game, their track record leaves me wary of such a hope.

Ideally, I think a good idea already suggested in the thread would be to keep the scale small and focused. FE tends to do better when its scope is limited to a smaller setting and cast as it allows for them avoid having things get too bloated and overcomplicated. It also allows for more characters to get more involved and developed since then the developers can better distribute their focus, rather then something like Fates where while you had some great characters, but you also had your Peris and Story!Xanders.

Edited by Medeus
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9 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I think a number of people are more okay with SoV's flaws just because it wasn't the nightmare that was Fates' story. I haven't played through the whole game yet but even early on you see similar problems that apeared in Fates.

 

I would be interested in which problems you see as similar to Fates. I personally think that SoV does have problems sure though none have come to mind which are similar to Fates

 

 

7 hours ago, Medeus said:

Ideally, I think a good idea already suggested in the thread would be to keep the scale small and focused. FE tends to do better when its scope is limited to a smaller setting and cast as it allows for them avoid having things get too bloated and overcomplicated. It also allows for more characters to get more involved and developed since then the developers can better distribute their focus, rather then something like Fates where while you had some great characters, but you also had your Peris and Story!Xanders.

100% Agree! Quality over quantity. One of my problems with Fates.

 

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38 minutes ago, MPhoenix said:

I would be interested in which problems you see as similar to Fates. I personally think that SoV does have problems sure though none have come to mind which are similar to Fates

After I read through the English script, I'm going to write a full review of the story on the SoV board with my comparisons to Fates.

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Awakening wasn't exactly a bad story, but it was just bland. Fates was a mess, but I feel like that has to do with them splitting the story into three separate games and dlc (which makes me wonder why people complain about the Echoes dlc price, when they had to pay extra just to get a complete game when it came to Fates), and their execution in doing so was poor. Echoes was a major improvement on the last two games, and while I love it, I feel like that's not exactly a tough achievement. And like others have said, it did build upon an already established story.

So, as long as they don't try to go crazy experimental with the story, or do a Fates and create "branching paths" and a bunch of extra needless features at the expense of good character and story depth, then I can see them at least producing a passable story, that won't have too many problems.

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6 hours ago, Frenzify said:

Awakening wasn't exactly a bad story, but it was just bland. Fates was a mess, but I feel like that has to do with them splitting the story into three separate games and dlc (which makes me wonder why people complain about the Echoes dlc price, when they had to pay extra just to get a complete game when it came to Fates), and their execution in doing so was poor. Echoes was a major improvement on the last two games, and while I love it, I feel like that's not exactly a tough achievement. And like others have said, it did build upon an already established story.

So, as long as they don't try to go crazy experimental with the story, or do a Fates and create "branching paths" and a bunch of extra needless features at the expense of good character and story depth, then I can see them at least producing a passable story, that won't have too many problems.

I'd say Awakening's story is actually bad. 

The first chunk, where it's focused on Chrom and defeating Plegia is a solid, though very standard FE fare. Nothing amazing, nothing completely awful, aside from Chrom's insane trust in Robin out of nowhere. And even that wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't for what happens later in the game. 

After that, though, the story pretty quickly falls apart. Continent across the pond that nobody ever worried about suddenly starts acting nuts, Ylisse is now forced to work together with Plegia's new, couldn't be more shady and suspicious ruler, the Walhart arc is incredibly rushed and falls flat, and the final quarter reveals that everything that has happened in the game is because of the Avatar, and basically that Chrom can go sit on a broomstick, because it turns out his story didn't really matter. Then you bring in the Paralogues where everyone who(Supposedly) died previously comes back, either because the writers didn't know how to do anything besides use the Outrealm/Dragon Gates as massive deus ex machinas, or because it turns out your army was super careless in determining whether or not major threats were actually dead after a battle. 

And then the whole game ends with "And the tears of all the Pokémon brought Ash back to life" nonsense, Robin defeats their other self with no repercussions because of the power of friendship.  

It's not as bad as Fates on the whole, but Awakening's story nosedives to terrible after Plegia.

Edited by Slumber
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9 hours ago, MPhoenix said:

100% Agree! Quality over quantity. One of my problems with Fates.

Where were you when I actually suggested it and everyone went "oh no not another Marth retread"?

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I actually like the overall story idea of Marth. You have a prince who is driven out of his homeland, later he assembles an army and eventually takes back his kingdom. I don't know what it is but I like this story idea a lot. Besides a story does not have to be complex to be a good story, none of the GBA titles have complex stories but I enjoy them quite a lot all the same. So in answer to your question phineas81707, I'm down for it.

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I'm going to say right now that there's no way that FE will have levels of stories that are deep such as One Piece or even Hunter X Hunter...it just can't happen since even those writers are too busy with their own thing.

What can happen though is that they can make use of Monolith Soft for trying out on the story side of things since I personally think that Xenoblade has pretty good writing all over it.

 

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My expectations are about average. I do have expectations for a pretty solid story but if stuff like Outrealms, deep realms or time travel are included, my expectations are immediately dipping, just because of how much these elements detract from the immersion of a fire emblem game. They were kind of OK in Awakening, though they still diminished the immersion the world had. However in fates, these elements just ruined any seriousness the plot had, especially since virtually every problem the world had in that game was pinned on these other worldly elements.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa
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Fire Emblem plots have never  really resonated with me too much. Heck, not even Fates bothers me a terrible amount anymore. The true charm of  the series for me is the character interactions. As long as they nail that and the gameplay down I'll be happy.

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