Why I like Faye

[Armagon]

11 hours ago, KongDude said:

"Oh! Is THAT what you want? ...Because I'll do it. I'll fight for any cause you desire! Just promise you'll be watching, Alm! Promise to look at me!" -Faye C Support

She's fighting for Alm. She might not say that in her letters to her family, but she definitely says she fighting for that reason.

I know, i was just specifically referring to the letter. I'm pretty sure she does still care about Zofia and the rest of Valentia though.

11 hours ago, KongDude said:

"This world belongs to Alm. To all of us. There's plenty of room for hope in it... but there's no room in it for you!" -Faye Final Quote

You forgot to say she still mentions Alm. Yes she mentions everyone else, but Alm is clearly a highlight.

Yeah, and Tatiana mentions herself and Zeke in her final battle quote. Faye isn't the only character to highlight a particular character in her final battle quote.

I understand your other points though. Although real quick

11 hours ago, KongDude said:

but he doesn't shove it down our throats like Faye.

I wouldn't say Faye shoves it down our throats. Ilyana doesn't shove her food gimmick down our throats, so likewise, Faye doesn't shove her Alm obsession gimmick down our throats. Now, if Faye was story relevant like Gray and Tobin, then it'd be a different story.

8 hours ago, The_antithesis said:

I'd just like to point out that Faye's obsession over Alm is the only support in the series (note: there have been 12 FE games with supports so far) to hit someone with a nerf. (Faye gets avoid -15. My headcanon is that she's too busy looking at Alm to see the enemy coming.) Sure, it's still a net gain, but it's quite neat to see that the developers paid attention to this support, even in gameplay.

Talk about an 'unhealthy' obsession...

Oh hey, we have the same headcanon. Anyway, i wouldn't say it's an unhealthy obsession since, compared to Tharja, Faye genuinely loves Alm. And to bring up a point i made in the beginning

On 5/25/2017 at 11:26 PM, Armagon said:

Ok, so is Faye actually obsessed with Alm? Yes. But how far does this obsession go? Clearly not far enough to the point where she ignores the consequences. "I thought about going after him just to teach him a lesson, but I didn't. I'd probably get killed by some foul beast out there on my own, you know?" -Faye's recruitment conversation with Celica. So despite her obsession, she's still able to think logically.

 

[Frenzify]

The Faye hate reminds me of the alleged Maribelle hate, before I realised that it's just the vocal minority who hated her, without even bothering with her supports. Faye does start off as a character pretty much all about being obsessed with Alm, and I won't deny that she has the least characterisation out of the starting villagers. But her supports flesh out her character reasonably well, and when I see people say, "Oh, but Silque C support" I just shake my head. I can't remember if it's in the B or A support, but she redeems herself very well, and comes across as a nice character, rather than the bitch people like to paint her as, when they reference that C support. In her A support with Alm, she gets rejected and takes it EXTREMELY well, which makes all the comments and memes about her being absolutely obsessed with Alm to excessively creepy levels ridiculous.

What irritates me the most is how Tharja and Camilla are both much, much, much worse when it comes to the characterisation as obsessive yandere characters, and yet they're at the height of popularity in their games. They're both characters I like, mind you, but the point is that Faye is toned down, in that respect, and yet gets criticised for that aspect of her, anyway. I realise that you need to go digging in her few supports to see any real character, but she feels more real than the two characters she gets compared to from the previous games. Some people actually have obsessions over other people, and Faye is a much better and saner example than Tharja or Camilla.

I honestly see little wrong with her only reason for being in the army being because she wants to be beside Alm. That may be a shallow reason, and there may be little depth to her consequently, as everything she does is for Alm, but hey... some people are just like that. The following sentence is going to sound a little weird, but whatever; I feel like even though they kind of push the fact of her obsession in your face, the nature of her obsession isn't overly excessive.

I don't know. I just like Faye. I think she's pretty cute, and despite her obsession I think she's more levelheaded about it than other recent examples.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Frenzify

[property of nuvelle]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I know, i was just specifically referring to the letter. I'm pretty sure she does still care about Zofia and the rest of Valentia though.

Yeah, and Tatiana mentions herself and Zeke in her final battle quote. Faye isn't the only character to highlight a particular character in her final battle quote.

I understand your other points though. Although real quick

I wouldn't say Faye shoves it down our throats. Ilyana doesn't shove her food gimmick down our throats, so likewise, Faye doesn't shove her Alm obsession gimmick down our throats. Now, if Faye was story relevant like Gray and Tobin, then it'd be a different story.

Oh hey, we have the same headcanon. Anyway, i wouldn't say it's an unhealthy obsession since, compared to Tharja, Faye genuinely loves Alm. And to bring up a point i made in the beginning

 

"Shoving down our throats" was an exaggeration, yeah.

Like I've said before, it's not a problem because Tatiana's character isn't just Zeke and she's actually his lover. We don't mind that she says that because she can be Tatiana without Zeke.

Can you justify Faye's character without dragging others down to her level? You aren't helping her character by bringing someone else's down.

Yes her unhealthy love may not be as bad as Tharja, but Tharja's is a very high bar to beat. It's still pretty unhealthy.

Edited May 28, 2017 by KongDude

[shadowofchaos]

Simplify it to this for me:

1. Her entire shtick is pretty bad. And she could have been a better character. With Alm and Celica being established even on the opening movie, what else is there but "failure" for her?

2. The hate for her and comparisons to Tharja or Yanderes in general is ridiculous.

[maybe]

i think faye's c and b supports with alm are kinda funny so I like her a little but on the whole I think she's pretty bad

the problem is less that her character revolves around alm and more that she has literally nothing beyond that

her support with alm is okay. the first two are pretty funny, and the third one is pretty alright.

her support with silque is pretty bad though. the first two don't really add anything and just make her seem like a jerk, and the a support is just an apology and nothing else. the most you can gather from that support is that... silque likes talking to people? it doesn't add anything to either of their characters beyond that

so aside from that, all you can ever really see about faye is that she likes alm. she doesn't really have any personality traits beyond that, unlike the other villagers, who I can think of at least a few notable things about. even kliff, who only has one, very small support, has a more defined character than faye.

there's nothing too awful about faye, but there's not much to like about her either

2 hours ago, Frenzify said:

What irritates me the most is how Tharja and Camilla are both much, much, much worse when it comes to the characterisation as obsessive yandere characters, and yet they're at the height of popularity in their games. They're both characters I like, mind you, but the point is that Faye is toned down, in that respect, and yet gets criticised for that aspect of her, anyway. I realise that you need to go digging in her few supports to see any real character, but she feels more real than the two characters she gets compared to from the previous games. Some people actually have obsessions over other people, and Faye is a much better and saner example than Tharja or Camilla.

while I'm not going to deny that the main reason for their popularity is most likely their bodies, camilla and tharja have a lot more characterization beyond being obsessed with the main character

a lot of tharja's supports are about her curses and hexes and don't mention the avatar at all, like with lon'qu and virion. they're not always great, but a decent amount of them are focused on things beyond the avatar

camilla's obsession with corrin is pretty weird and a lot of her supports aren't very good, but again, they go beyond just being about the avatar. unlike tharja or faye, camilla has a fully defined backstory and as such, her supports have a lot more to focus on. she has relationships to characters other than corrin, such as her retainers and siblings.

i'm not really a fan of either character but I feel like there's a lot more to them than faye

faye doesn't really have anything aside from liking alm. her base conversations don't really say much about herself, her supports don't really add anything to her character, and her dialogue in the prologue and the beginning of the story doesn't tell you much about her either. the only thing I can really say about her after reading all her dialogue is "she likes alm"

[Armagon]

41 minutes ago, KongDude said:

Can you justify Faye's character without dragging others down to her level? You aren't helping her character by bringing someone else's down.

I'm not dragging anyone down to her level though.

32 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Simplify it to this for me:

1. Her entire shtick is pretty bad. And she could have been a better character. With Alm and Celica being established even on the opening movie, what else is there but "failure" for her?

2. The hate for her and comparisons to Tharja or Yanderes in general is ridiculous.

1. While i wouldn't say she's bad, i 100% do agree that there should've been more to her. I know it's non-canon but in Heroes, she talks about how she likes to make flower bracelets or something like that. That part of her character should've been in Echoes. I wouldn't say there's "failure" for her either btw. She knew that Alm would friendzone from the start. Unrequited love happens....a lot.

Not gonna lie, if there's one thing that bugs me about Faye, it's not Faye herself, but rather, the fact that she was added just so that Alm's route could have more girls. The developers admitted to this. There was another reason too but i don't remember it off the top of my head. I'll have to find that interview again.

2. I also 100% agree she gets too much hate and shouldn't be compared to Tharja. The only reason i did that comparison in the OP was becuase i was making of point of why they shouldn't be compared.

[shadowofchaos]

I didn't mean to say its objectively bad. I mean it is quite understandable why people don't like her simply because of how exaggerated all of her traits are for the sake of showing how much she wants Alm to be hers. For me, its pretty bad.

 

[property of nuvelle]

46 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

I didn't mean to say its objectively bad. I mean it is quite understandable why people don't like her simply because of how exaggerated all of her traits are for the sake of showing how much she wants Alm to be hers. For me, its pretty bad.

 

Thank you. Some people who like Faye assume it's because she's "yandere" and we don't like that. It's really just because she lacks her own personality and purpose that isn't just Alm.

49 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'm not dragging anyone down to her level though..

Everyone who likes Faye does. Instead of saying things like, "Faye is a good character because she has this and that going for her". It's always, "Tharja is much creepier," "Mathilda kills for Clive, too", "Clair was a bitch to Gray", "Tatiana is attached to Zeke, too". Every defense for Faye is that there is a more liked character who does worse or similar things.

Tharja is MEANT to be a creepy character. Of course Faye won't surpass her. Is she a creepier character? Yes, probably. Is she a worse character. No, because we can say she isn't just Robin dick rider. I'll admit I was guilty for defending Faye about this before, but localization did not help her at all.

Mathilda kills for Clive because Clive asks for it and she's a WAR MAIDEN. Clive likes for who she is, which is what he's getting.

Clair acts the way she does because she was moody at the time and has actually points against Gray. She finds Gray's words to be nothing but empty flirts, and then finds out Alm seeks another woman.

Tatiana is ZEKE'S LOVER. She's allowed to get as close as she wants. Her final quote says her and Zeke, but her character does not revolve around her and Zeke. We can easily define her as a character that is clumsy but tries her best.

None of these characters hit the low bar like Faye. They all have a character going for them that isn't revolved around another.

People simply do not like Faye because she has nothing else going for her. If people managed to make a point that isn't "x character is worse or the same" then I would understand. I have seen one that I thought was interesting, but was more interpretation than real implication or observation.

Edited May 28, 2017 by KongDude

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, KongDude said:

Everyone who likes Faye does. Instead of saying things like, "Faye is a good character because she has this and that going for her".

Except that's exactly what i did in the OP. I talked about what i liked about Faye and why.

[Loki Laufeyson]

15 hours ago, KongDude said:

"Oh! Is THAT what you want? ...Because I'll do it. I'll fight for any cause you desire! Just promise you'll be watching, Alm! Promise to look at me!" -Faye C Support

She's fighting for Alm. She might not say that in her letters to her family, but she definitely says she fighting for that reason.

"This world belongs to Alm. To all of us. There's plenty of room for hope in it... but there's no room in it for you!" -Faye Final Quote

You forgot to say she still mentions Alm. Yes she mentions everyone else, but Alm is clearly a highlight.

Like you said, Colm has much more to him. Many characters have much more to them then Faye. That is why people don't like her. She failed to bring a single character trait that is somewhat special to her, or any personality that isn't revolving around another character.

We aren't looking at Faye as a soldier, but as a character. Okay, Faye doesn't need to have a grand reason to fight and whatever, that's fine. But it's a problem for some of us because it's still related to Alm. Almost everything she says and does includes Alm. I'm sure many of wouldn't care that Faye's fighting just to stay close, if she had a personality that didn't have to include Alm. Leon says he began fighting in the army because there was a guy he liked. Do we have a problem with that? No. Because he isn't just "VALBARVALBARVALBAR". He has an attraction to Valbar and makes it noticable, but he doesn't shove it down our throats like Faye. He's a pretty boy who cares much for himself. He could easily be this without Valbar.

Cheers. All of this. Im also not going to bring other characters down for this, because its false equivalency. And i feel like all the comparisons arent quite right. People doing all the justifying of Faye by using comparisons to guys like Camilla and Tharja are missing the point. The character i feel more apt in comparison is Ilyana  

"But Loki, Ilyana isnt creepily obsessed with Ike or anyone!" Correct. But Ilyana is ridiculously one note in a sea of interesting characters. Shes hungry and waif-like and thats all there is. Shes got supports with other characters, and in those supports, its always focused on the one trait  shes hungry. For Ilyana, its hunger. For Faye, its Alm. The difference? I didnt see half as much mental gymnastics to justify Ilyana back in the day. People were a bit more honest in their fanboyishness for Ilyana. She made them laugh and they loved her design. 

1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

Simplify it to this for me:

1. Her entire shtick is pretty bad. And she could have been a better character. With Alm and Celica being established even on the opening movie, what else is there but "failure" for her?

2. The hate for her and comparisons to Tharja or Yanderes in general is ridiculous.

I dont think Faye is yandere. I just think shes insipid and unkind.

57 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

I didn't mean to say its objectively bad. I mean it is quite understandable why people don't like her simply because of how exaggerated all of her traits are for the sake of showing how much she wants Alm to be hers. For me, its pretty bad.

 

Cheers, this exactly. My opinion on Faye as indifference at first, to mild dislike upon seeing her supports with Silque. Then went to full on Hell Naw Territory after that passive agressive convo with Alm after his row with Celica. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Loki Laufeyson

[property of nuvelle]

9 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Except that's exactly what i did in the OP. I talked about what i liked about Faye and why.

Stating why you dislike/like something is different from proving that it's good. At least in my eyes. People like doing drugs, even when some know the effects it has. You state that you like Faye because of this and that, but when you actually try to justify her character, Camilla and Tharja is brought into the picture.

[Sunwoo]

10 minutes ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

The difference? I didnt see half as much mental gymnastics to justify Ilyana back in the day. People were a bit more honest in their fanboyishness for Ilyana. She made them laugh and they loved her design.

Here's the question though. Was there ever nearly as much hate for Ilyana around the game's release ... or heck, even before it's release? Because if not, that is also a difference. If Faye's fans are more defensive of Faye, then a good reason for it would be because people talk about how much they dislike Faye or how she is a bad character more often while I don't recall people really bashing Ilyana, just saying that there is no depth to her. Because Faye's obsession involves shipping, people are likely to get far nastier about her. Because it's fucking shipping.

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Here's the question though. Was there ever nearly as much hate for Ilyana around the game's release ... or heck, even before it's release? Because if not, that is also a difference. If Faye's fans are more defensive of Faye, then a good reason for it would be because people talk about how much they dislike Faye or how she is a bad character more often while I don't recall people really bashing Ilyana, just saying that there is no depth to her. Because Faye's obsession involves shipping, people are likely to get far nastier about her. Because it's fucking shipping.

I would say a more important difference is that Faye is a new addition to an otherwise faithful remake, one with a small cast, at that. As one of the new original members of Alm's crew, she was bound to draw a lot of attention to herself. When it was revealed that she doesn't have a personality outside of wanting to hook up with Alm - something we know to be pointless because of Celica, and a role Clair already filled - that potential turned to disappointment.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Nah people didnt bash Ilyana. I think the reason for that, was because FE didnt have loads of super-one-note characters in those days. At least, to the point where an entire game had such characters. Awakening and Fates did things to the perception of characters, making people really tired of tropes. You know very I nevr cared for Ilyana. But she was really harmless. Many will say the same for Faye, and thats true. Shes relatively harmless. But that doesnt mean people have to like her. I feel the vitriol though, has to do less with shipping and more to do with the fact she wasnt in the original Gaiden, and has the one-noteness to her. (Although im not going to discount your idea that people may hate her for shipping reasons. You likely saw that argument somewhere in great numbers. I havent seen it is all.)

[property of nuvelle]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

I would say a more important difference is that Faye is a new addition to an otherwise faithful remake, one with a small cast, at that. As one of the new original members of Alm's crew, she was bound to draw a lot of attention to herself. When it was revealed that she doesn't have a personality outside of wanting to hook up with Alm - something we know to be pointless because of Celica, and a role Clair already filled - that potential turned to disappointment.

And I'm sure many of us wouldn't mind that crush if it wasn't her defining trait.

[Loki Laufeyson]

3 minutes ago, KongDude said:

And I'm sure many of us wouldn't mind that crush if it wasn't her defining trait.

Yee, hence why i got excited about that late game convo. I thought id see another aspect to her, but i ended up disappointed.

Edit: @Sunwoo, i wanna add I actually didnt follow too much pre-release stuff for SoV. (Irl was very unkind to me during such.) so I actually did not know there was Faye hate prior to release. My opinion came from my experiences playing the game. My initial opinion on Faye before release (cuz i did see her in Heroes) was positive due to her highly charming design.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Loki Laufeyson

[Sunwoo]

Of course nobody has to like Faye. All I'm saying is that people are more likely to become defensive if a character they happen to like is coming under constant heavy fire, even before the game was released anywhere. Most people will be less defensive of a character who receives much outright dislike and bashing, because there is no reason to defend them.

[Rapier]

I don't think there is a problem with Faye as a character. She is simply poorly written, as are all other characters, thus it is more of a problem within the storytelling. They could be much more interesting if their stories and personalities had more development and focus, but they're as one dimensional as they originally were in the old game and the extra dialogue wasn't enough to change that.

They're all ok.

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, KongDude said:

You state that you like Faye because of this and that, but when you actually try to justify her character, Camilla and Tharja is brought into the picture.

Um, i brought Camilla and Tharja into the picture at the end. And even then, i only brought them up because that's the most common comparison that's made. I even said how a comparison to Marisha was more fair.  And to use an example of me justifying her character without bringing in an unrelated character.

On 5/25/2017 at 11:26 PM, Armagon said:

The common thought is that Faye hates everybody but Alm. This is like, not true actually. In the prolouge and the beginning of Act 1, we clearly see that Faye and the rest of the Ram Villagers are good friends. Adding to that, Faye is also good friends with Celica. "Oh, Celica! You're back! Gosh, how long has it been? I've missed you so much!" -Celica's recruitment conversation with Celica. So the question is, why was Faye rude to Silque? Well, it's very possible that Faye just has a serious lack of social skills with girls. Think about it. Growing up, Faye's only friends were all guys. Sure, Celica was there but only for a short while (it was recently brought to my attention that Celica was in Ram for three years). And even though she was rude to Silque, Faye realized her mistake and apologized. On a more general note, Faye does give other members of the army compliments when they land a crit.

Is this not justification?

3 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Then went to full on Hell Naw Territory after that passive agressive convo with Alm after his row with Celica.

Gonna be honest, i didn't like Faye's passive aggressive comment either but at the same time, i too have said passive aggressive stuff, sometimes without realizing it. And someone mentioned earlier how Faye's voice makes it sound like if she's rude, she doesn't know it.

3 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

I think the reason for that, was because FE didnt have loads of super-one-note characters in those days. At least, to the point where an entire game had such characters. Awakening and Fates did things to the perception of characters, making people really tired of tropes.

Yeah, i can agree with this. One-note characters existed even in the pre-Awakening FE days. To list some examples

• Navarre: edgy but honorable enough to not hurt women or children, somehow falls into banditry though
• Gharnef: He was kinda just evil for the sake of being evil. 
• Actually, can we just say the entirety of Shadow Dragon?
• Marisha: OG Faye
• Lute: "According to the book of...."
• Marisa: Something about wanting to surpass her father......and that's it, i think.
• Ilyana: if she and Kirby were to compete against each other in a eating contest, it would never end.
• Mia*: "Fight me, also where the fuck is my rival?"

Of course, Awakening and Fates made the one-noteness more obvious, even if i do like a lot of Awakening and Fates characters.

*I have not played the Tellius games so i'm just going off of what i've read about Mia. Ilyana, on the other hand, is pretty obvious.

[Caster]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i can agree with this. One-note characters existed even in the pre-Awakening FE days. To list some examples

• Navarre: edgy but honorable enough to not hurt women or children, somehow falls into banditry though
• Gharnef: He was kinda just evil for the sake of being evil. 
• Actually, can we just say the entirety of Shadow Dragon?
• Marisha: OG Faye
• Lute: "According to the book of...."
• Marisa: Something about wanting to surpass her father......and that's it, i think.
• Ilyana: if she and Kirby were to compete against each other in a eating contest, it would never end.
• Mia*: "Fight me, also where the fuck is my rival?"

Of course, Awakening and Fates made the one-noteness more obvious, even if i do like a lot of Awakening and Fates characters.

*I have not played the Tellius games so i'm just going off of what i've read about Mia. Ilyana, on the other hand, is pretty obvious.

I would also put Kieran on that list.
Granted I don't remember PoR that well because it's been a while, but I remember him not being too defined at all.
But people find him entertaining despite that, and that's okay. I like characters like Faye and Ilyana despite their one-noteness because I enjoy them and they entertain me, and both have great designs.

I guess it's more just you do you, though.

[property of nuvelle]

33 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Um, i brought Camilla and Tharja into the picture at the end. And even then, i only brought them up because that's the most common comparison that's made. I even said how a comparison to Marisha was more fair.  And to use an example of me justifying her character without bringing in an unrelated character.

Is this not justification?

Gonna be honest, i didn't like Faye's passive aggressive comment either but at the same time, i too have said passive aggressive stuff, sometimes without realizing it. And someone mentioned earlier how Faye's voice makes it sound like if she's rude, she doesn't know it.

Yeah, i can agree with this. One-note characters existed even in the pre-Awakening FE days. To list some examples

• Navarre: edgy but honorable enough to not hurt women or children, somehow falls into banditry though
• Gharnef: He was kinda just evil for the sake of being evil. 
• Actually, can we just say the entirety of Shadow Dragon?
• Marisha: OG Faye
• Lute: "According to the book of...."
• Marisa: Something about wanting to surpass her father......and that's it, i think.
• Ilyana: if she and Kirby were to compete against each other in a eating contest, it would never end.
• Mia*: "Fight me, also where the fuck is my rival?"

Of course, Awakening and Fates made the one-noteness more obvious, even if i do like a lot of Awakening and Fates characters.

*I have not played the Tellius games so i'm just going off of what i've read about Mia. Ilyana, on the other hand, is pretty obvious.

Okay, well looks like I managed to overlook that part. My bad. But I still have gripes about it. Her lacking social skills is only your implication. You only stated that it was possible, but nothing is certain about it. She's simply rude to Silque because she isn't Alm. She's nice to Celica because they've met before. Honestly having 1 female support only hurts her.

Yes the listed characters can be considered one-noted, but some don't rely on another character for them to be considered one. I've only completed Awakening and Fates, but I know that many characters don't solely exist for another.

Setsuna has her terrible trap gimmick, who does that include?

Arthur is heroic yet super unlucky, does anyone come into the picture?

Silas is considered to be Corrin's best friend, but not everything about him is just about Corrin. He can be considered a courageous and chivalrous.

Oboro is known for her tailor past and hate for nohr. Takumi crush does not override her character.

If Faye was something like, I don't know, a giant scaredy cat, then no one would mind. You'd have the normal likers and dislikers, but at least her character wouldn't rely on Alm to exist.

[Loki Laufeyson]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Um, i brought Camilla and Tharja into the picture at the end. And even then, i only brought them up because that's the most common comparison that's made. I even said how a comparison to Marisha was more fair.  And to use an example of me justifying her character without bringing in an unrelated character.

Is this not justification?

Gonna be honest, i didn't like Faye's passive aggressive comment either but at the same time, i too have said passive aggressive stuff, sometimes without realizing it. And someone mentioned earlier how Faye's voice makes it sound like if she's rude, she doesn't know it.

Yeah, i can agree with this. One-note characters existed even in the pre-Awakening FE days. To list some examples

• Navarre: edgy but honorable enough to not hurt women or children, somehow falls into banditry though
• Gharnef: He was kinda just evil for the sake of being evil. 
• Actually, can we just say the entirety of Shadow Dragon?
• Marisha: OG Faye
• Lute: "According to the book of...."
• Marisa: Something about wanting to surpass her father......and that's it, i think.
• Ilyana: if she and Kirby were to compete against each other in a eating contest, it would never end.
• Mia*: "Fight me, also where the fuck is my rival?"

Of course, Awakening and Fates made the one-noteness more obvious, even if i do like a lot of Awakening and Fates characters.

*I have not played the Tellius games so i'm just going off of what i've read about Mia. Ilyana, on the other hand, is pretty obvious.

Oh granted, Faye's voice at that moment was deliberately dripping with vapid tone, but man, it really did color the entire character for me, in the worst way. I was going to just shrug off the supports with Silque cuz the A wasnt that assy, but then she pulled that. I think it really boils down to life experience with passive aggressive people. I no longer surround myself with people like that. Im certainly not gonna be fond of it in my entertainment if it amounts to nothing whatsoever in the narrative. 

Also, you dont really have to justify shit, my dude. You like character, and you dont have to explain yourself. I guess you feel you need to because people explain their reasons for not liking her, but honestly, get in the habit of that and you wind up going in needless circles. 

Thing about the one-note folks of yore, there was never more than maybe one or two a game. Not counting the early games in the series where characterization was limited. Marisa actually had more going for her than 3edgy5me. She was super socially awkward but wanted Gerik's attention. Or friends in general. Lute was very socially awkward and had a lust to see the world. (Her supports with Kyle touch more on her character about that.) And she had a mischievous side (Artur supports, where she does this to show affection). Shadow Dragon characters sadly didnt get a lot of characterization. They spoke once and that was usually it. Even New Mystery had limited development there. But there were some expansion. Mia and Ilyana are pretty one-note, but since they were just two, and harmless quirks, it didn't bother people. In fact, Mia was super popular in the fanbase for a long time. Then Awakening and Fates came out with not just a couple of tropey guys, but entire casts of them. I like plenty of characters from those games, but yeah. That left a funky taste in the fandom's mouth and here comes SoV with a brand new character. They expanded the Gaiden cast to flesh them out, and added a new girl. Sad, the canon immigrant ended up being written much like the tropey characters that soured many in the fandom. People are more than done with that kind of thing. I guess thats why people got mad when she was leaked during pre-release. I wasnt there, but i guess it happened.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Loki Laufeyson

[NekoKnight]

I think she would be more appreciated if she had some character development. Yes, she accepts that her attraction to Alm is one-sided but she doesn't move on from those feelings. She doesn't try to give her life a new meaning and her ending just makes her behavior worse.

[HP101]

fwiw, I think Faye is a reasonably well-written character in spite of her character revolving around Alm. To a degree, I would even say it's because of that that she works as well as she does, and I do find the hate for her rather overblown. I wholeheartedly believe she's nothing like the tropey characters that Fates and Awakening to a lesser degree were so full of. That being said, that's not to say I didn't enjoy a lot of those characters, moreso Awakening than Fates, but imo Faye has a certain nuance to her characterization that many of them don't have.

A character doesn't necessarily have to have "depth" or be "well-rounded" to be a good character. Even if they *do* have a single notable trait, as long as you make clever use of that trait, you can still have yourself a good character.

Spoiler

Having said all that though, I do think Faye's epilogue is a little too cruel to her, and one of those instances where I wish supports played some part in the endings. Some mention of her friendship with Silque would've been nice.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by HP101
implied spoiler

[The_antithesis]

One thing about Faye I really like is how she was almost designed to be a hate target, even in her role in the story.

Gaiden is a game about compromise between Mila (Celica) and Duma (Alm) and both sides must be willing to change. Whether it be Alm learning to think before he acts or Celica not being so cowardly, both have to become more like the other to progress the story.

Now, compare this to Faye, who represents stagnation and obsession. She doesn't want to leave her village, she doesn't like making friends with Silque, and she sticks with her first love interest for her whole life, even after she gets rejected. And look at all the hate she got! I think that it was very clever move on the part of Int Sys to portray a character opposite to the 'moral' of the game as so one-note and hatable. When life gives you lemons (in the form of a toxic fanbase) make lemonade, I guess.