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SoV Unit Evaluation Day 24-25: ATLAS and Jesse

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Mathilda has passable bases as well as fantastic growths, and with some leveling will easily have the best combat out of Alm's cast. She even gives you a reason to field Clive due to their support bonuses. On top of that, ORKO'ing Hard Mode Rudolf is no mean feat, but Mathilda makes it look easy with barely any investment aside from a forged Ridersbane.

Delthea will only ever grow Atk and Spd, but with the Mage Ring her glass-ness can be easily overlooked since she can ORKO some of the bulkier fiends and generals pretty handily with Aura. Her low starting level makes promotion unlikely, but it's not as though she'll need it; Rewarp is nice for postgame at least. Her main issue is her late join time in addition to her low Mov compared to the sheer size of lategame maps, which limits her usability quite a bit.

Both units have existent Res stats which is a nice touch too.

26 minutes ago, ThatOneWeakArcher said:

I don't know how to add a quote while editing so I will just ask, why is Delthea worse than Mage!Kliff?

Stats alone do not a unit make. Mage!Kliff is one of your first choices for a mage while Delthea is not only optional but comes extremely late. Also, her Mov and terrible bulk hamper her usability, never mind the HP cost on her spells. She's not at all a bad unit, but Kliff has much better availability as well as a more versatile spell list. Both have good speed growths too.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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Mathilda

Trivializes everything remaining of Alm's route since her join time if you give her Pegasus cheese and shrine boosts. Using other combat units gimps her potential. 10/10

Delthea

Overrated exp thief. Her joining time and level are a joke. She only has costly spells and she has terrible HP, you have to heal her over and over again. Easily bottom 5 in the game. 

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Mathilda: Unlike Claire she lacks the speed to double with gradivus at her join time, lacks flight and her bulk is on-par with a 12/1 Claire pre-promotion. 1-2 range beats 1-1 range but it's no 1-5 range. She's still very good for a free horse though and mostly obsoletes other non-bowbird ponys. 7/10.

Delthea: Is the best mage in the game and the best est in the franchise. Her late join holds her back overall, rewarp comes late, and she needs bulk boosters post promotion to do work on EP but that can all be forgiven as she solo's half her join chapter. 7/10, 11/10 in lab though.

Edit: How in the world does Delthea require healing? Her built in passive already outheals the 4-1 mage group + spell recoil at +5 res.

Edited by joshcja

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Mathilda is the best paladin on Alm's path, and Delthea is the best mage. Both pretty good places to be. Delthea is underlevelled but "best mage" is still high praise.

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Mathilda (9/10)

Considering Clive's "averageness", having an actual good, bulky Cavalier unit that can fare pretty well on the battlefield (especially for her join time) is definitely welcomed on Alm's route considering all the fields you're probably going to be seeing a lot of in his battles. Seeing as how you won't be getting Camu- I mean Zeke (sorry, I'll try to be Sirius here) for the next little while, you're going to kind of rely on Mathilda to be cleaning up those out of reach units on the battlefield. Also, she's one of the few rare units in the game that actually gets some good RES. *GASP* IKR?? So you'll be needing her to dish out damage on those Arcanists on Alm's route (I hate Mire with a passion, till I get it on my Enchantresses). She has very good balanced growths, along with her already mentioned RES GROWTH. Although you won't be fighting magic users all the time on Alm's route, it's still a very much welcomed stat growth in a game where it's almost non-existent.

 

Delthea (8/10)

I think it's already established that DELTHEA IS A MURDERER (a glass one at that). She's insanely powerful with high growth rates in two of the most important stats in the game, MAG and SPD. As much as I would instantly make her a 10/10, what hinders her abilities to become a major powerhouse on your team is her join time along with her stats and her spell list. Aura is an extremely powerful spell and amazing to actually have a unit that comes with it on their join time. However, it's not a spell you'd be relying on at all on someone with such low HP and HP growth. Delthea's spell list is great, however having no 3 range spells hinders the true capability of a powerhouse such as her. The Mage Ring on her fixes that of course, but you do have to go through Nuibaba's level before you get it. Now she is the only other unit in the game to receive Ragnarok, with Celica being the other only person to receive it, and having such high SPD growths will most likely give you a reason to actually use the damn heavy spell. However, again, low HP growths will most likely hinder you from using it frequently unless you want to heal every turn. She can't take physical hits at all either, with that low DEF growth as well. This is what makes her the glass part in canon, one (or two) clean physical hits and you're looking at a dead loli at your feet. She becomes a true monster if you put in the time to grind her up to the level your other units are at (and when you get to Enchantress, that 2 range spell list becomes a worry of the past), however if you're going straight through the game with no grind then she probably won't be your most reliable unit.

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Mathilda is far superior to Clive, don't know how she compares vs. a Villager Cav as I haven't made any of them one yet. Her starting stats are solid with good growths, and she doesn't need that many resources to excel against nearly anything.

Delthea does turn out to be an amazing magic user, but she isn't quite a growth unit without issues in their entirety as some would hype her up to be. No 3 range spells limits her attack range, compared to nearly all other Mages. The Mage Ring is a remedy, but you might want to constantly pass that around. Her base stats aren't so astounding to be problem free- in particular her Speed needs a good bit of leveling before she can really be a doubling ORKOing machine, especially since Aura is rather heavy. She never gets Excalibur, and though Seraphim is accurate and light, Alm faces far fewer Terrors and it takes some time for Delthea to learn. Aura is pricey on the HP cost too, and Ragnarok is fairly situational and costly too. Her only real competition in the magic department is Kliff though, Tobin ultimately fades to a Physic bot and Luthier is Tobin with Physic traded for Thunder and Saggitae- neither of which he can double with except with the Speed Ring vs. slow things.

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Delthea is more versatile than you'd think. Obviously, her 70% strength growth gives her unmatched potential as a Warp/Rescue nuke in endgame, but out of the box she's sporting 23 attack with Aura. For example, she can take the Dracoshield, which gives her enough defence to engage most enemy groups safely, without killing her offense. She gets a lot of exp just for fighting, so I used that method until her growths kicked in.

I honestly don't get the deal about 3 range spells, either. They're inaccurate, Thunder is awful and Sagittae kills your attack speed. The only enemies with 1-2 range are Javelin users and Fire/Miasma mages, the former are rare and the latter tink Delthea.

 

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Tobin ultimately fades to a Physic bot 

A little off topic, but you say that as if it's a bad thing.

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21 hours ago, joshcja said:

Delthea: Is the best mage in the game and the best est in the franchise.

Conrad is leagues better. Best Est? Sara is 10 times better.

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Moving from these lasses, we move on to the flying gals. Hailing from Archanea, they're back to kick some varying amount of butt as they aid Celica in her quest to help the land of Valentia as long as they rescue Est. Not really sure why they stick around for so long but hey better to have some fliers that just Clair. 

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The eldest and first of the White Wings, she comes in with an unrequited crush from the first game, a flying horse and a javelin by her side. Palla joins with Catria and creates a contrast with her in that very minute. Palla comes in at a higher level with lower bases but decently higher growths in HP, strength, skill and def compared to Catria. When you gain them, they're guaranteed a slight rough start considering the archer box map in the desert is the first real map you get to deploy them on. However pass that and it's easier sailing as these units come into their own. They become far more useful in monster filled maps due to their Slayer ability but aside from that Dread Fighters tend to outperform overall.

For the most part Palla's only real competition in her niche is the very sister she comes in with and to be fair they end up pretty similar in terms of contributions. Every map Palla contributes, Catria does about the same to the point you could say they're slightly interchangeable. If we're speaking strictly on what they do better than each other its that Palla is the sturdier harder hitting sister compared to Catria's speedier more magic resistant playstyle. With an honorable mention to Est, she could potentially eclipse them but Est needs more dedicated training and feeding in order to reach the same potential.

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The middle sister of the White Wings, she also comes with an unrequited crush, a flying horse but this time an Angel Ring. In comparison to her sister, she has excellent bases especially in luck and fairly balanced growths with a slight emphasis on spd. She's also slightly easier to get up to task and play with than Palla at first but like Palla the archer box map isn't going to make things easy at first but pass that again and she's free to contribute along the way. 

I can't really say much without repeating myself again from what I said of Palla. The sisters as a whole work at their best when all three take the field especially due to their Triangle Attack unison attack. I wouldn't say it's terribly consistent or overall that useful unless the sisters all defeated enemies within close range of each other which gets likelier in dungeons or in certain maps in Chapter 4. Not something I'd overall recommend but definitely an option for harder enemies. One last thing I could say is that Catria gaining more speed, she's likelier to double the Mogalls that come near the end of the game.

 

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A fall from grace compared to Gaiden, which they completely trivialize. By all means they should be fed exp to make dracozombie spam maps much less painful. Palla and Catria are like Christmas cavaliers, both should be used. 8/10.

Edited by L9999

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Where's Est?

These two are a godsend for Celica's route, and there's no reason to not use both; the next several maps start to have movement-hindering terrain which makes playing without either of them much more tedious than it would be otherwise. Palla starts off with better bases than Catria, and tends to only be eclipsed by Catria Spd-wise towards the end of the game. Both pack Banish as Falco Knights which lets them contribute that much more to a route already littered with terrors.

In short, double flier/10 on a route that gets much more use of them compared to Clair. If Genny didn't exist then they'd probably be the best units in Celica's route period, with maybe Saber and the other potential Dread Fighters offering comparable combat for a much longer period of time.

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Up next we got some boys who've got some skin to show off. The boys from the middle of the continent, buff Atlas and the flirt Jesse.

 

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Atlas the Barbarian, chopping up trees as a lumberjack, he strangely doesn't join with said weapon on him. Atlas is the last villager to be reviewed and the only one recruited when not considering Faye or Kliff for Celica's route. If there's one thing you really need to know about Atlas it's that he packs one hell of a punch. Joining as a level 10 villager with 14 strength and 30 Hp its pretty neat all things considered. Unfortunately, I can't say the same thing for the rest of his stats as even his growth rates are heavily skewed to just HP and strength. In all honesty, he's the closest to a Berserker we've got if only he had a higher spd base. 

There's really only two classes I can suggest you put Atlas in and thats archer or merc. Being a knight is just cruel in this route as Valbar can attest, a horseman will have to deal with far less forgiving terrain and Sage Atlas only really brings Rescue to the table which is pretty good but he doesn't bring anything special and that 4 mov will just hinder him forever. For most, archer is the way to go as after you get out of the cemetery and promote him, he can immediately contribute against the archer hell map where everyone but Leon struggles to fight and survive or just reach the place. His raw strength comes in handy when Killer Bow comes into play, where anything he engages will die once he activates. The other option being a merc puts him in competition with the rest of his pals but due to how ridiculously good the bases for skill and spd are in that class, he'd turn out the strongest in terms of attack and pretty good since he's in a good class although he will struggle 

Overall a unit with a surprising amount of use despite the time he joins. I can't say he's without his faults, as his start can be a bit rough and his durability outside his HP is rather low but he's a worthwhile investment in his two designated classes.

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The merc named Jesse, saved Silque one time but couldn't do the same for Est. Jesse joins as the final merc of Celica's route with some pretty nice base stats and decent growths. However decent they may be however, he specializes in luck and speed while his strength is high enough it isn't his forte but that doesn't matter due to promo bases patching things up for him. His base res of 7 is the best of mercs and training him like all mercs will pay great dividends.

Compared to his fellow mates excluding a merc Atlas, Jesse is in all likelihood the worst among them in a normal no-grind run since he'll have the least amount of time to get there especially due to the time he joins and the maps that follow suit. Saber and Kamui had chapter 1 to get them going and Deen is already a Myrmidon halfway there to Dread Fighter..By the end, he'd be up to par with the rest, it just takes longer for him to get there compared to the other three lads.

A good unit barred more by his join time and the maps ahead than any particular failing of his own. If trained up, he'll be good since as stated previously Dread Fighters are good. There's really not much to add to him. 

What your evaluation?

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Palla: Is Palla 10/10 bird waifu 9/10 unit.

Catria: Is not named Palla, 0/10 bird waifu, but she's close enough 8/10 unit.

Atlas: Is pretty good with a killer bow and is the only source of rescue on Celica's route, plagued by issues from his awkward join though. 4/10

Jesse: The JessexSilque ship is pretty strong. Sadly Jesse is not. Stillinprision/10

Edited by joshcja

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Palla and Catria- the elder and middle two of the Whitewing sisters. These two are always near equals, with Catria's Speed and Res leads outweighing Palla's Str lead in the case of SoV (barring the Trainee Lance- but that is paid DLC only). Even so, Palla isn't very far behind. Both girls are rather weak during the desert portion of Act 3 despite their good flight mitigating the desert terrain, but once promoted prove invaluable for Act 4 and useful in the final battle too. Not at all invincible juggernauts for sure, but they're still top notch units.

Atlas- he needs to be hightailed back to the Seabound Shrine ASAP if he doesn't want to be a liability. Amazing Atk is undermined by a lack of Speed and other stats, so you have to find a way around this. Archer and a Killer Bow is the easiest way to give Atlas a good offense, and you get an Iron and a Steel on Celica's side of things, so you can forge two Killers if you don't mind shelling out the Silver. Mercenary gives Atlas the Speed he lacks, but you already have 3-4 other potential Dreads on Celica's team, so he's redundant. Mage lets him Rescue (with amazing range via his high Atk) and shifts him from being an attacker into a utility unit. Celica doesn't get any Rescue barring paid DLC, so Atlas can fill in a unique niche here. The problem is getting him to a level 4 Sage is difficult, and when Rescue finally is learned, if it ever is, there won't be a lot to do with it. Cav doesn't do anything to fix his Speed or durability, and Knight is an immovable joke.

Jesse- joins underleveled as a mere Mercenary when the Mercs joining prior to him have likely upped themselves to Myrmidon. He also has competition potentially from Deen, and there are only so many good swords to go around. He like anyone else makes a good Dread, but in loosely defined "efficient" play he'll never make it there.

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Both are terrible. Nothing else said.

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Atlas - I always use him, I think he works best as a mage because his high attack and Saggitae just wrecks everything. 7.5/10

Jesse - I didn't realize he sucked until I read about everyone complaining about him. I gave him the blessed sword and he just crit everything. 8/10, but maybe I just got lucky... or he did with that luck growth.

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11 hours ago, Palasid said:

Atlas - I always use him, I think he works best as a mage because his high attack and Saggitae just wrecks everything. 7.5/10

Jesse - I didn't realize he sucked until I read about everyone complaining about him. I gave him the blessed sword and he just crit everything. 8/10, but maybe I just got lucky... or he did with that luck growth.

Mage!Atlas only has 1 AS tho. That is really terrible. 

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17 hours ago, L9999 said:

Mage!Atlas only has 1 AS tho. That is really terrible. 

It's functionaly identical to the AS of every other Atlas varient. He's getting doubled on enemy phase.

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13 hours ago, Lady Sansa said:

Jesse is better than Kamui

Explain why.

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21 hours ago, L9999 said:

Explain why.

Both have mediocre bases, it's a waste giving them the resources needed to be at the front.

Jesse has higher natural res so he's better at killing witches who teleport in from behind.

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3 hours ago, David Boey said:

Both have mediocre bases, it's a waste giving them the resources needed to be at the front.

Jesse has higher natural res so he's better at killing witches who teleport in from behind.

Jesse's availability sucks, Kamui likely is promoted by the time he shows up. If res is such a niche you can make Boey a mercenary for roughly the same result, Boey's lame speed won't really matter because witches have terrible attack speed. 

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2 hours ago, L9999 said:

Kamui likely is promoted by the time he shows up.

If you're grinding or neglecting your better units, sure. But Jesse can fulfil a niche without favouritism.

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On 19/7/2017 at 3:37 AM, David Boey said:

If you're grinding or neglecting your better units, sure. But Jesse can fulfil a niche without favouritism.

What? That makes zero sense. In Act 2 Kamui can get his share of exp in the cantor map, Seabound Shrine, and the last boat map. The only units to train in the team by that point are Genny, Saber, Leon, and Celica. Boey, Mae, and Valbar are all trash so their exp is Kamui's, whose bases aren't fantasti but his availability allows him to get better stats than Jesse's bases. Jesse doesn't fulfill any niche, he is yet another merc. He needs favoritism, his stats are bad for Act 3, everything kills him. He is also playing catch up to Saber, Kamui, and Deen, as well as competing with Palla and Catria, who are superior to Jesse in everything. Having more resistance is not a great accomplishment to warrant use, if witches are such a big deal you can easily manipulate the AI to your advantage with Mila's Turnwheel and Genny. 

Edited by L9999

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12 hours ago, L9999 said:

What? That makes zero sense. In Act 2 Kamui can get his share of exp in the cantor map, Seabound Shrine, and the last boat map. The only units to train in the team by that point are Genny, Saber, Leon, and Celica.

1.  You want to kill the cantor ASAP. Kamui is all but useless for this, so he will get shunted to the back of the formation and won't be engaging the zombies until turn 4. Unless you sit back and grind on them, he won't be gaining a level.

2. Kamui does 2 damage to the zombie dragon(s), takes 9 damage back. He won't be doing much.

In the map with merc/archers/bandits, the map is built around the chokepoint. Saber is best at the head, while you want Celica, Leon and Mae providing artillery fire. Kamui will be blocked and won't be getting any combat unless you contrive it.

3. He has poor res and is outranged by the arcanists. The best he could get is a kill during the cleanup phase to hit level 4. At this point level 7 is still a long way off.

tl;dr those four will take the lion's share of the exp, and Kamui lacking any utility will mean trying to promote him by act 3 won't give you any benefit, and will only delay Saber/Leon promoting and Genny getting Physic.

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 Boey, Mae, and Valbar are all trash so their exp is Kamui's,

If you do have the exp to spare, Mercenary Valbar and May offer more than Kamui does imo. Obviously, double digit attack and defence make Valbar more than just another merc, and if Mae gets levels, she helps the assault on Wolf and Greith far more than Kamui does. She has superior range, ignores terrain, has meaty chip on archers and mercs (at level 6 she can one-round the Bow archers with Thunder, and avoid being doubled by the shield archers on the EP). Her defence isn't much worse since she can wear a shield without neutering her offense, and her damage output is even better than Leo/Palla/Catria, considering the avoid boost of those forts, so she can justify Genny's attention.

Quote

Having more resistance is not a great accomplishment

I find that incredibly ironic, considering earlier in the thread you claimed Nomah was a better Fork candidate than Valbar. Presumably for the Labryinth, but natural res is still pretty  much pointless. Magic users are the least dangerous enemies there. Dread fighters halve magic damage anyway, and bow knights should be able to delete them from long range. On the other hand, res is indeed a good thing for witch-killing duty; they aren't a big threat, so that's all the more reason that you shouldn't be wasting Mila's Turnwheel or Genny in dealing with them.

You also said Kamui was automatically good for being a Merc, yet you call Atlas and Jesse terrible.

Edited by David Boey

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