How did Doma get so...swampy?

[Jotari]

I reckoned from the very start that Doma and Mila were always supposed to be dragons so I'm not really surprised they made that more evident in the remake. Although I am slightly disappointed they made Doma so visibly draconic rather than the pure monstrosity he was on the NES. Regardless, it begs the question, why does Doma look so unlike a Divine Dragon? It seems unlikely that it's because of the madness as we see feral dragons in FE3/New Mystery who look completely normal physically. And Doma and Mila even have dragon stones to protect them (or at least they had human forms, I guess its possible that was achieved with something other than a dragon stone since their powers do seem to be greater than run of the mill manaketes). Maybe it affects divine dragons more? Gotoh did put Tiki to sleep after all even with her human form and dragon stone. I don't know. Seems like something worth talking about.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Jotari

[Topaz Light]

Judging from what we see of Mila's corpse, the two of them probably looked the same originally. I think Duma looks so weird because he was improperly or incompletely revived/awoken, but even then you can tell he and Mila's dragon forms probably looked very much alike.

It seems that even within a given universe, the appearance of divine dragons (and fire dragons, for that matter) varies pretty wildly from game to game. FE3, FE6, FEDS, FE13, and FE15 all had their own takes on it, so I guess either there's a lot of varying physiological traits they can potentially have, or Intelligent Systems just does whatever they feel like for the design each time without bothering too much with continuity.

I did kinda like Duma's original weird cycloptic slime dragon appearance, though, so I am also kinda sad to see that get redesigned out of Echoes.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Topaz Light

[Tolvir]

Not enough sun combined with the lack of lotion. Does terrible things for a dragon's skin.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Topaz Light said:

Judging from what we see of Mila's corpse, the two of them probably looked the same originally. I think Duma looks so weird because he was improperly or incompletely revived/awoken, but even then you can tell he and Mila's dragon forms probably looked very much alike.

It seems that even within a given universe, the appearance of divine dragons (and fire dragons, for that matter) varies pretty wildly from game to game. FE3, FE6, FEDS, FE13, and FE15 all had their own takes on it, so I guess either there's a lot of varying physiological traits they can potentially have, or Intelligent Systems just does whatever they feel like for the design each time without bothering too much with continuity.

I did kinda like Duma's original weird cycloptic slime dragon appearance, though, so I am also kinda sad to see that get redesigned out of Echoes.

Okay that is almost definitely the reason, and it's a good reason, they should do whatever the hell they want without having to worry about being bogged down by continuity (as much as it can irk super fans such as us). But in universe I think it's down to more than just different varying physiological traits. I mean he has tentacles and a third eye that shoots laser beams!

[Salamud]

I figure it's just the Divine Dragon version of a Shadow Dragon. Echoes points to Divine Dragons having an affinity towards life (enriching soil, triggering swarms of zombies). Being a dark form of Divine Dragon makes Duma's current status looking so decayed fit.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Salamud

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Salamud said:

I figure it's just the Divine Dragon of a Shadow Dragon.

Do you mean the Shadow Dragon of a Divine Dragon?

[Salamud]

Yes. 

Medeus is an Earth Dragon. He transforms into a monster associated with the darkness of the underworld. 

Duma is a Divine Dragon. He transforms into a monster associated with the putrid dead.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Salamud

[Captain Karnage]

they're degenerating, it's why the dragons took human forms

in FE 3 and 12 theres a map in a volcano where decaying dragons go to die

[Jotari]

28 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

they're degenerating, it's why the dragons took human forms

in FE 3 and 12 theres a map in a volcano where decaying dragons go to die

But Mila and Doma both have human forms. And I don't remember the dragons in any of those maps looking visibly different to the non feral manaketes we see (like Tiki and Bantu or Medeus' underlings)

[Captain Karnage]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But Mila and Doma both have human forms. And I don't remember the dragons in any of those maps looking visibly different to the non feral manaketes we see (like Tiki and Bantu or Medeus' underlings)

I think Duma might hVE ATyed in his dragon form for some ammount of time. I think the fire dragons just went insane

[KliffIsTheOG]

Maybe Duma was just covered in the slime of the swamp he was in. It is shown by his animation that he stays underground when not in battle at the very least.

Edited May 30, 2017 by KliffIsTheOG

[Wayward Alchemist]

29 minutes ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

Maybe Duma was just covered in the slime of the swamp he was in. It is shown by his animation that he stays underground when not in battle at the very least.

The better question here is why tf was there a swamp underground beneath Rigel Castle/Duma Tower in the first place? Like are underground swamps a thing in the first place?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Wayward Alchemist

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

The better question here is why tf was there a swamp underground beneath Rigel Castle/Duma Tower in the first place? Like are underground swamps a thing in the first place?

Certainly makes for a questionable foundation for such a large building.

[Wayward Alchemist]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Certainly makes for a questionable foundation for such a large building.

And of all places, why did Edgelord Duma pick an underground swamp to chill in? Mila has an entire palace/temple, why doesn't he just hang out in a Slightly Darker™ temple? Duma isn't exactly a secret or anything, he has a whole nation of people who worship him.

[BakanGin]

15 hours ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

Maybe Duma was just covered in the slime of the swamp he was in. It is shown by his animation that he stays underground when not in battle at the very least.

And it would stick to him because he never moved his body till revival. (So a couple hundred years)

 

14 hours ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

The better question here is why tf was there a swamp underground beneath Rigel Castle/Duma Tower in the first place? Like are underground swamps a thing in the first place?

They are, but it needs swamps from the surrounding area. Also black swamps=evil energy in most games

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

And of all places, why did Edgelord Duma pick an underground swamp to chill in? Mila has an entire palace/temple, why doesn't he just hang out in a Slightly Darker™ temple? Duma isn't exactly a secret or anything, he has a whole nation of people who worship him.

Well he does have that big massive tower to chill in but I guess after building it he just decided he prefers the underground swamp...What a waste of time and energy for the builders.

[Tsak]

when the divine dragons go mad they stop taking showers... Makes you all swampy

[Mysterique Sign]

Duma believes overcoming extreme hardships is the path to righteousness, so he lives in a swamp to practice what he preaches

[BrightBow]

Well, I'm sure it's just supposed to be decaying skin. Duma, in his original appearance, has what looks like wings, except they are entirely skeletal, as if only the bones were left.

Even in his far more clean-locking remake design he looks rather... undead. Like, his wings are basically nothing but holes and his eye sockets seem to be empty. Well, at least his right eye. His left eye has it's lid permanently closed.

Not that I'm saying that Duma is actually undead, just that he is too powerful to die from the deterioration of his mind and body alone. The Earth Dragons in particular were specifically stated to have such a powerful life force that killing them for good is almost impossible, hence why Medus came back from death twice. So it's no surprise that Duma, as a member of the equally powerful Divine Dragon tribe, would still be alive even after his skin and organs have turned into goo. But the members of the less powerful dragon tribes would probably be long dead before their bodies reach that state.

Edited June 1, 2017 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Well, I'm sure it's just supposed to be decaying skin. Duma, in his original appearance, has what looks like wings, except they are entirely skeletal, as if only the bones were left.

Even in his far more clean-locking remake design he looks rather... undead. Like, his wings are basically nothing but holes and his eye sockets seem to be empty. Well, at least his right eye. His left eye has it's lid permanently closed.

Not that I'm saying that Duma is actually undead, just that he is too powerful to die from the deterioration of his mind and body alone. The Earth Dragons in particular were specifically stated to have such a powerful life force that killing them for good is almost impossible, hence why Medus came back from death twice. So it's no surprise that Duma, as a member of the equally powerful Divine Dragon tribe, would still be alive even after his skin and organs have turned into goo. But the members of the less powerful dragon tribes would probably be long dead before their bodies reach that state.

But the degradation doesn't actually cause bodies to deteriorate. Only the mind. In Elibe the Ending Winter had an effect on dragon's bodies but we only ever see it effecting their minds in Archanea. Aside from having no human form, the dragons we fight in Mystery and New Mystery look indistinguishable from normal manaketes.

[BrightBow]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

But the degradation doesn't actually cause bodies to deteriorate. Only the mind. In Elibe the Ending Winter had an effect on dragon's bodies but we only ever see it effecting their minds in Archanea. Aside from having no human form, the dragons we fight in Mystery and New Mystery look indistinguishable from normal manaketes.

Those dragons were not Divine Dragons or Earth Dragons who are the two most powerful dragon tribes. The bodies of the mad dragons that are fought in Mystery of the Emblem do probably decay too, it's just that they would die long before their bodies look anything like Duma. As I sad, Earth Dragons were specifically stated to be difficult to kill due to their powerful life force, which is why the tribe got sealed instead. Medeus got slain at least twice without actually getting killed for real and he seems to think that he will survive the third time as well.

I'm actually rather surprised just how well Gaiden connects to Mystery when it comes to this subject.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Those dragons were not Divine Dragons or Earth Dragons who are the two most powerful dragon tribes. The bodies of the mad dragons that are fought in Mystery of the Emblem do probably decay too, it's just that they would die long before their bodies look anything like Duma. As I sad, Earth Dragons were specifically stated to be difficult to kill due to their powerful life force, which is why the tribe got sealed instead. Medeus got slain at least twice without actually getting killed for real and he seems to think that he will survive the third time as well.

I'm actually rather surprised just how well Gaiden connects to Mystery when it comes to this subject.

I don't dispute that Earth and Divine Dragons are damn hard to kill but I do dispute that the degradation influences a dragon beyond their mental state. You fight feral Earth Dragons in Book 2 (and New Mystery) that use the same sprite as Medeus in book 1 (and Shadow Dragon). Doma seems to be possessing his own corpse based on the cutscene prior to fighting him so he probably is in some near dead state but how he got like that still remains unexplained.

[Interdimensional Observer]

The swamp ooze is Duma's excrement. It's very humiliating for him that he's lost control of his bodily functions due to degeneration, so he hides himself underground. The Duma Faithful justifies it as an extension of their god's flesh and blood and bathe themselves in it.