Where are the similarities between FE6 and FE1/3?

[Harvey]

A lot of people say that FE6 has a lot of similarities of FE1/3...so where are those similarities exactly? Because I so far can't seem to find any...

 

[Emeraldfox]

Well, you move units around on a square grid, Roy has to seize things like Marth, Roy also helps out a princess, like Marth. Roy is locked to swords like Marth, and has a cape.

You also save the land from evil dragons.

[ping]

They do have comparable structures in many regards, although they're not identical, of course.

The relationship between Roy and Guinivere is quite similar to that of Marth and Nyna - both princesses rely on the lord to (re)gain control over their countries; they're shown to be very trusting towards each other (they both gift the Fire Emblems to Marth/Roy, for example), but not romantically involved. Speaking of romance, Lilina is Shiida as a mage; daughter to the ruler of a friendly nation, (heavily implied) love interest to the lord and they even both chat up some random enemies during the fight. ;)

Both games have a group of mercenaries joining the heroes in the second chapter - both groups include the sword-wielding former gladiator and some axe bros. Come to think of it, the initial unit roster is quite similar as well: One sword-wielding lord, the two Xmas Cavs, the Jagen, the green-haired shitty archer, and the armor knight. Only the peg knight joins a bit later (and isn't a princess).

Both games feature a big counterbalance to the Evil Empire - Archanea and Etruria - that have to be freed from the clutches of said Evil Empire before they can lead the war against it.

In both games, it's a human that revives the Evil Dragon to begin with, and in both cases the dragons are the final bosses. Medeus's role is kinda split in FE6 though, with Jahn acting as the true villain even though Idoun is the actual thread to humankind.

I'm pretty sure the writers were quite aware of this, too, because once in a while, they actually subvert the expectations a FE1 veteran would have. At first, Perceval seems as Camus as can be, down to his design, but in the end, he can be recruited and Gale takes the role of the good-guy-who-stays-loyal-to-the-bad-guys. Milady and Zeiss are reminiscent of Minerva and Michalis, but Zeiss joins Team Roy without too much of a hassle. I would guess that FE is meant to return to the roots of the series, because even mechanically, it's simpler than the Jugdral games (as far as I can tell - I haven't played 4 and 5 yet), so they probably tried to draw inspiration from FE1 (and 3, I guess) in terms of the general plot and character roster, too.

[Azz]

Spoiler

This image kind of helps show some similarities.

[Flee Fleet!]

2 hours ago, Azz said:

  Hide contents

This image kind of helps show some similarities.

A better comparison would have been with the portraits in FE3, for the most part in my opinion.

 

[Azz]

11 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

A better comparison would have been with the portraits in FE3, for the most part in my opinion.

 

Yeah that would be better, but I couldn't find one (Nor have the time or patience to make one).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

It had a lot of plot structure of FE1 and a bunch of elements of FE3. With stuff like how we got to fight Dragons after the war have basically ended is also awfully familiar towards how FE3 the plot did not end after fighting the emperor and you do fight Dragons in the end.

Or how like Marth, Roy is lowkey tasked to gather Legendary weapons/objects to uncover the truth behind the war.

 

Heck FE6 manage to take both OG Hardin and Mystery Hardin and put them in the same game. Zealot-Treck-Noah is basically SD Hardin Wolf Sedgar, while Zephiel is basically Mystery Hardin. The entirety of Sacae mythos is also taken from Hardin considering the man of the plains motif, and its heavy use of Bowknights

[NinjaMonkey]

Refa started a thread like this, but never finished it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

There are also some similarities between Archanea and FE7 too, albeit nowhere near as many. Isadora is Midia, Harken is Astram, and Matthew's introduction with Serra on Hector and Eliwood modes is sort of like Julian-Lena (which was earlier referenced in FE4 with Dew-Edain).

FEs 6-10 all beckon in some measure back to FEs 1-5, while still moving forward. FE6 is a return to Archanean simplicity after the growing complexity of the Jugdral games. FE8 was a return to Valentia and its monsters, world map roaming, and dual protagonists going their own ways. FE9 was a return to Jugdral, with Mist referencing Ethlyn between her being the lord's sister and her Valkyrie weapons being Sword and Staff. Elincia with her green hair and Staff use, was a reference to the exclusively green haired Pegasus Knights of Jugdral (who once promoted could use Swords, Lances, and Staffs). The ability of horse units to move after attacking and the Knight Ring, the Anima division and trinity of magic, the reintroduction of Skills, AoE refreshing, escape as an objective, the ability to steal weapons, and Authority Stars in FE10, were all gameplay returns to FEs 4 and 5.

And then FE13 comes along and in a "going out of business sale" maneuver cobbled things from all the games together in case there weren't going to be any more FEs. Fates does not look that heavily upon the past, though of course it does draw from it (the debuff/staff BS at the end of Lunatic Conquest is page taken from Thracia's playbook), its essential character is rooted in an FE modernism derived from the financially very successful Awakening. What FE16/Switch uses for its inspiration is beyond anyone's guess at the moment.

[Harvey]

Ok this is what I don't get at all. How is Marth similar to Roy? He unlike Roy isn't educated and requires characters to educate him in stuff. 

and no...I don't get how Wade is similar to Barst considering that the latter has blue hair and a reliable boss killer in atleast FE1.

 

[Punished Dayni]

27 minutes ago, Harvey said:

and no...I don't get how Wade is similar to Barst considering that the latter has blue hair and a reliable boss killer in atleast FE1.

I think the comparison they should have been making was Cord and Bord to Wade and Lot (Which is which I couldn't tell you)

[ping]

The games are not identical, but there are even more parallels between 1, 3 and 6 than usual for FE games. No, Roy isn't just Marth with a bit of hair dye, but their journeys have quite a few similarities. Both are princes to relatively small countries that are invaded by a much bigger force, so they need the help of another country - but unlike Marth, Roy is able to call for Etruria's help in time to prevent Pherae and Lycia to be conquered. Roy being sent to the Western Isles in the 2nd part of the game is rather reminiscent of the beginning of FE3 - Hardin sending Marth to Gra so that he can easily subjugate Althea - and Elphin even tells Roy that the same thing could have happened to him, but unless I misremember things, Bern doesn't actually invade Lycia for a second time. Lilina has neither the same class nor the same characterisation as Shiida (I consider Shiida to be a lot more cunning), but they're both daughters of the ruler of a friendly, relatively small country. Nyna doesn't have the same connection to Gharnef as Guinivere does to Zephiel, but they're both NPCs that rely on Marth/Roy to ultimately reclaim their kingdoms and have a trustful, but non-romantic relationship with them.

[Randoman]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Ok this is what I don't get at all. How is Marth similar to Roy? He unlike Roy isn't educated and requires characters to educate him in stuff. 

Well, you're right about Marth and Roy not being similar in that aspect, but in other aspects they are, such as both being followed by and helped by an NPC princess (Nyna/Guinevere), both wielding a legendary sword (Falchion/Sword of Seals) meant to slay a powerful dark dragon (Medeus/Idoun).

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

I think the comparison they should have been making was Cord and Bord to Wade and Lot (Which is which I couldn't tell you)

Bord is to Wade as Cord is to Lot. Essentially, the Bord and Cord archetypes have skill and speed define them, respectively. 

[Punished Dayni]

16 hours ago, Randoman said:

Bord is to Wade as Cord is to Lot. Essentially, the Bord and Cord archetypes have skill and speed define them, respectively. 

I mostly said I couldn't tell because I couldn't tell which was which stat wise off the top of my head. (Not like their personalities help)

Both Marth and Roy also get the Emblem from said princess NPC, both get told by their suzerain to do something for them and that goes awry and leads to rebellion and both fight an evil emperor who wields a weapon with a great reputation. Could probably go on with comparing the two but I think this is fine.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Quote

How is Marth similar to Roy?

They both suck but can somehow steamroll the final boss due to their weapons (Though in Idoun's case really anything can).

[Randoman]

On 6/7/2017 at 1:58 AM, Camus The Dark Knight said:

They both suck but can somehow steamroll the final boss due to their weapons (Though in Idoun's case really anything can).

I hope you realize Marth is considered okay to broken in the various FE games he appears in.

FE1 Marth is considered broken (in a good way) due to Marth having good stats and growths that have him eclipse the majority of enemy units stats. That, and the Miracle Rapier/Mercurius happens to be exclusive to him in FE1, so no one but Marth can use it. Also, the AI heavily prioritize attacking Marth (even if there's plenty of low HP units the enemy can kill off) which is really useful to exploit in terms of protecting other units and creating really funky LTC strategies. Ask SF members JSND and L9999 if you still need convincing about FE1 Marth being broken.

FE3 Marth admittingly isn't as broken as FE1 Marth (due to the Miracle Rapier/Mercurius not being exclusive and the AI not prioritizing him 24/7), but his stats being significantly higher than his enemies still stands. Marth having perfect availability in regards to Orb Shard usage really helps his already good growths (and can help in areas he's weak in, like defense and resistance). Sure, almost anyone can use Orb Shards, but characters that come earlier are able to make use of Orb Shards far better than those that join later.

FE11, admittingly in harder difficulties that's where Marth will be the weakest of the 4 mainstream games he appears in. Marth still has access to forged Rapiers though, a benefit no one except for Caeda and forged Wing Spears can match. Plus, the level cap of 30 alleviates some of his problems in not being able to promote. And in the Normal to H2 difficulties, Marth is still a strong unit whose stats and growths will keep him able to match or surpass enemy units' stats.

FE12 Marth has quite the boost in his growths and bases compared to the past 3 games, which in Normal mode make him even stronger against enemy units than he was in FE3 (though Orb Shards no longer boosting growths is kind of a bummer) and help him keep up and stay strong in harder difficulties. The Shield of Seals boosts all of Marth's stats by +2, which essentially serves as a pseudo promotion item boost, mitigating the main complaint people have about Marth's stats compared to other lords. Plus, unlike other lords who are stuck at level 20 until promotion, Marth can go up to level 30 and receive that "pseudo promotion item boost", and being stuck at his level cap is hardly an issue since reaching level 30 too early would be really hard to reach unless you play favouritism with Marth.

I'm not going to cover FE13-15 since his playable appearances there aren't canonical.

Sure, Marth doesn't ever promote, but with how low the enemies stats are in his games (barring the DS game's higher difficulties, which are problematic to Marth in FE11 but are manageable to Marth in FE12), he hardly even needs it. The fact that Marth's stats are higher and will stay higher (with levelling) than the majority of the enemies he faces makes him considered to be strong in general. Sure, most of the enemies' stats in his games are pretty low, but that doesn't change the fact that it means Marth is able to take on most enemy units without much trouble.

Also, keep in mind we're not talking about warpskip, since barely anyone gets to level up and become strong in a warpskip playthrough, and of course a lord character would stay weak in a warpskip playthrough without the opportunity to gain much experience.

I went really off topic in this post, so if you want to argue further, feel free to make a thread for it.

[Jotari]

On June 5, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are also some similarities between Archanea and FE7 too, albeit nowhere near as many. Isadora is Midia, Harken is Astram, and Matthew's introduction with Serra on Hector and Eliwood modes is sort of like Julian-Lena (which was earlier referenced in FE4 with Dew-Edain).

FEs 6-10 all beckon in some measure back to FEs 1-5, while still moving forward. FE6 is a return to Archanean simplicity after the growing complexity of the Jugdral games. FE8 was a return to Valentia and its monsters, world map roaming, and dual protagonists going their own ways. FE9 was a return to Jugdral, with Mist referencing Ethlyn between her being the lord's sister and her Valkyrie weapons being Sword and Staff. Elincia with her green hair and Staff use, was a reference to the exclusively green haired Pegasus Knights of Jugdral (who once promoted could use Swords, Lances, and Staffs). The ability of horse units to move after attacking and the Knight Ring, the Anima division and trinity of magic, the reintroduction of Skills, AoE refreshing, escape as an objective, the ability to steal weapons, and Authority Stars in FE10, were all gameplay returns to FEs 4 and 5.

And then FE13 comes along and in a "going out of business sale" maneuver cobbled things from all the games together in case there weren't going to be any more FEs. Fates does not look that heavily upon the past, though of course it does draw from it (the debuff/staff BS at the end of Lunatic Conquest is page taken from Thracia's playbook), its essential character is rooted in an FE modernism derived from the financially very successful Awakening. What FE16/Switch uses for its inspiration is beyond anyone's guess at the moment.

At least in Thracia the enemy would eventually run out of status staves, unlike Iago and his hacked skills/weapon set. -_-

Edited June 10, 2017 by Jotari

[Titamon]

On Sunday, June 04, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

There are also some similarities between Archanea and FE7 too, albeit nowhere near as many. Isadora is Midia, Harken is Astram, and Matthew's introduction with Serra on Hector and Eliwood modes is sort of like Julian-Lena (which was earlier referenced in FE4 with Dew-Edain).

FEs 6-10 all beckon in some measure back to FEs 1-5, while still moving forward. FE6 is a return to Archanean simplicity after the growing complexity of the Jugdral games. FE8 was a return to Valentia and its monsters, world map roaming, and dual protagonists going their own ways. FE9 was a return to Jugdral, with Mist referencing Ethlyn between her being the lord's sister and her Valkyrie weapons being Sword and Staff. Elincia with her green hair and Staff use, was a reference to the exclusively green haired Pegasus Knights of Jugdral (who once promoted could use Swords, Lances, and Staffs). The ability of horse units to move after attacking and the Knight Ring, the Anima division and trinity of magic, the reintroduction of Skills, AoE refreshing, escape as an objective, the ability to steal weapons, and Authority Stars in FE10, were all gameplay returns to FEs 4 and 5.

And then FE13 comes along and in a "going out of business sale" maneuver cobbled things from all the games together in case there weren't going to be any more FEs. Fates does not look that heavily upon the past, though of course it does draw from it (the debuff/staff BS at the end of Lunatic Conquest is page taken from Thracia's playbook), its essential character is rooted in an FE modernism derived from the financially very successful Awakening. What FE16/Switch uses for its inspiration is beyond anyone's guess at the moment.

Lest we forget that Athos is to Gotoh as Nergal is to Gharnef. Old acquaintances before the main game begins turned into bitter rivals during the plot.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Titamon

[Tenzen12]

Didn't Priscilla and her rescue also have it's FE1 counterpart?

[-Cynthia-]

I think FE6 and FE3/12 are also the only games in the series with a 'false' ending and a 'true' ending based on various requirements.

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 6/15/2017 at 8:18 AM, Titamon said:

Lest we forget that Athos is to Gotoh as Nergal is to Gharnef. Old acquaintances before the main game begins turned into bitter rivals during the plot.

And I just remembered that Athos, after attacking Nergal with Forblaze after the Durandal/Armads chapter, is convinced his Anima magic can't kill the darkness-based Nergal. So what does he do? He goes gets the light of Aureola (which has an effective bonus on Nergal's class) to break through the darkness- just like Gotoh making Starlight to kill Gharnef.