Clive - Why are you such dead weight?

[Ark the Pie King]

I've tried, I've tried SO hard to keep you up to snuff, but I just don't think I can do it. I'd bench you if it were possible, but at least on normal (not sure bout hard) it seems like you always bring your entire army to every battle, so you just...sit around. I hate how much babysitting I have to do to get you to contribute in any meaningful way at all. Has anyone else had this problem with him?

[property of nuvelle]

Can you believe that HE lead the Deliverance? His sister and girlfriend fight better than him.

[Ark the Pie King]

3 minutes ago, KongDude said:

Can you believe that HE lead the Deliverance? His sister and girlfriend fight better than him.

I honestly can. Did you see how the whole thing was in shambles under him? 100% fits.

[Res]

He's the worst 

Literally everyone else on Alm's army was more useful than he was in my game

[Interdimensional Observer]

Why must he become Captain of the One Kingdom, and just why must Mathilda retire due to marriage? Whatever happened to working moms? They'd probably get titles from Alm and Celica if they don't have any already and a nice estate and paycheck- they can afford servants so Mathilda doesn't have to be cooking, cleaning, and childrearing 24/7. And even if her body for some reason doesn't recover- there is always managerial work the knights need done, and she could do it.

I'll say this, Cavs and Pallies in SoV are so much more balanced than they are in other games.

[Glennstavos]

Yeah, the only good thing Clive has over the other non-villager cavs is just that you have him from Act 1, and that's a bit more time to grab some combat arts. And he's just a level away from promoting into an immediately usable class. 7 base speed and 25% growth isn't great, and his power and defense lags behind the awesome attack and defense of your armor knights. And without Res, he struggles against witch ambushes, unlike his girlfriend.

1 minute ago, Ark the Pie King said:

I honestly can. Did you see how the whole thing was in shambles under him? 100% fits.

Plus his admission of failure at the end of Act 3. 

[Rezzy]

He does well for me, having 8 movement helps a ton.  I waited to get him to 20 before promoting him, and the extra levels works wonders.  His only bad point is terrible Res, but that's the case with half my army.

 

I don't mind low growth rates, but everyone having single digit Res growths seems a bit silly.  It's the curse of Barth.

[Emeraldfox]

Iunno about you cats but Clive was alright for me on hard mode. I really don't understand how folks say he's unusable. Also, you don't have to field your entire army, save for ambushes.

[Res]

I am possibly exaggerating but I also strongly disliked him as a character, so it's more fun to just dish the hate.

[property of nuvelle]

I didn't mind him as a character, he just never does anything useful in battle. I just use him as bait sometimes.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

33 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I don't mind low growth rates, but everyone having single digit Res growths seems a bit silly.  It's the curse of Barth.

Clive's lack of magical resistance is actually touched upon in one of the DLC maps with Clair and Mathilda. In Kaga's setting, Res is supposed to be an inborn trait, and not something you can train, which is why everyone had 0% Res growths in the older games, and in the Echoes the single digit growths can sort of be called a miracle.

 

Clive is pretty damn bad. His joining stats are quite mediocre, but he's at least functional in Ch 1 if you take the Steel Lance away from him so that he can actually double/not get doubled. He's likely to be better than any of your Villager Cavs at that point in the game, but he's not really gonna be going anywhere afterwards. It's pretty important that he's fed a level during Ch 1 so he can promote into Paladin before Ch 3 or as soon as it starts, or otherwise he has literally no chance of catching up. If he's promoted, he's functional with decent Def for that point in the game and passable Spd too, but only for about a battle or two. Berkut's fight in Ch. 3 is pretty much the last time he will be useful, as he can't do jack to Desaix, and you get Mathilda afterwards. If you've been training up a Villager Cav and they're doing well, chances are they'll have caught up and replaced Clive already (unfortunately, my Kliff in my Blitzkrieg run has not).

Character-wise, he's extremely boring to me.

Edited June 5, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Rezzy]

7 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Clive's lack of magical resistance is actually touched upon in one of the DLC maps with Clair and Mathilda. In Kaga's setting, Res is supposed to be an inborn trait, and not something you can train, which is why everyone had 0% Res growths in the older games, and in the Echoes the single digit growths can sort of be called a miracle.

 

Clive is pretty damn bad. His joining stats are quite mediocre, but he's at least functional in Ch 1 if you take the Steel Lance away from him so that he can actually double/not get doubled. He's likely to be better than any of your Villager Cavs at that point in the game, but he's not really gonna be going anywhere afterwards. It's pretty important that he's fed a level during Ch 1 so he can promote into Paladin before Ch 3 or as soon as it starts, or otherwise he has literally no chance of catching up. If he's promoted, he's functional with decent Def for that point in the game and passable Spd too, but only for about a battle or two. Berkut's fight in Ch. 3 is pretty much the last time he will be useful, as he can't do jack to Desaix, and you get Mathilda afterwards. If you've been training up a Villager Cav and they're doing well, chances are they'll have caught up and replaced Clive already (unfortunately, my Kliff in my Blitzkrieg run has not).

Character-wise, he's extremely boring to me.

I'd have to check the average stats, but I raised Clive to 20 before promoting to Paladin, and he's got better stats than Mathilda in almost everything except Res.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, Rezzy said:

I'd have to check the average stats, but I raised Clive to 20 before promoting to Paladin, and he's got better stats than Mathilda in almost everything except Res.

What level was Mathilda?

[Alm(mond)]

I honestly felt like Clive was a better unit in the DLC prologue than the actual game lol

[Rezzy]

I think they are both about level 11 Paladins right now.  Mathilda has better growths in most stats, but Clive has more levels to grow, and looking at their bases, they are actually pretty similar.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

I think they are both about level 11 Paladins right now.  Mathilda has better growths in most stats, but Clive has more levels to grow, and looking at their bases, they are actually pretty similar.

I mean, with 13 extra levels, sure? Anyone that joins at a lower level is basically better if grinded like that.

[Glennstavos]

From my current playthrough. Bolded stats are the highest among the three units.

Clive Lv3 Gold Knight

Spoiler

 

HP 40

Atk 19

Skl 12

Spd 13

Lck 9

Def 13

Res 2

 

Mathilda Lv 2 Gold Knight

Spoiler

 

HP 41

Atk 18

Skl 17

Spd 15

Lck 17

Def 13

Res 11

 

Zeke Lv 3 gold knight

Spoiler

 

HP 40

Atk 20

Skl 13

Spd 14

Lck 4

Def 14

Res 6

 

And I'm pretty sure I've given none of them fountain stat boosts, certainly no DLC related items. Mathilda's promotion to gold knight is huge as the class mostly grants HP, Atk, and Def, and those are precisely her weakest stats when she joins. It's also worth mentioning that Clive's only above average growth is 55% in HP, but it doesn't have a chance to shine against the cav class line's excellent HP base stats. I would rank this guy pretty low on a tier list, and maybe consider him for a villager's fork into mercenary if you really want to invest in him.

I guess him having 2 support conversations is a plus...? Most characters get only one.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

From my current playthrough. Bolded stats are the highest among the three units.

Clive Lv3 Gold Knight

  Hide contents

 

HP 40

Atk 19

Skl 12

Spd 13

Lck 9

Def 13

Res 2

 

Mathilda Lv 2 Gold Knight

  Hide contents

 

HP 41

Atk 18

Skl 17

Spd 15

Lck 17

Def 13

Res 11

 

Zeke Lv 3 gold knight

  Hide contents

 

HP 40

Atk 20

Skl 13

Spd 14

Lck 4

Def 14

Res 6

 

And I'm pretty sure I've given none of them fountain stat boosts, certainly no DLC related items. Mathilda's promotion to gold knight is huge as the class mostly grants HP, Atk, and Def, and those are precisely her weakest stats when she joins. It's also worth mentioning that Clive's only above average growth is 55% in HP, but it doesn't have a chance to shine against the cav class line's excellent HP base stats. I would rank this guy pretty low on a tier list, and maybe consider him for a villager's fork into mercenary if you really want to invest in him.

I guess him having 2 support conversations is a plus...? Most characters get only one.

Your Mathilda got Spd screwed kinda. Average for her (assuming promoting ASAP, so 9 levels of Paladin and 1 level of Gold Knight) should be 17 with good chance of 18.

[Glennstavos]

4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Your Mathilda got Spd screwed kinda. Average for her (assuming promoting ASAP, so 9 levels of Paladin and 1 level of Gold Knight) should be 17 with good chance of 18.

Oh yeah, all my guys on Alm's crew got speed screwed. None harder than my Lukas that got brought UP to the Baron's 6 speed and is still there. He starts with 4!

Kliff turned out alright. 19 speed as a lv 6 sage. He doubles barons with Sagittae, which is great since excalibur would rely on a crit to one round them.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Gustavos

[Res]

2 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Oh yeah, all my guys on Alm's crew got speed screwed. None harder than my Lukas that got brought UP to the Baron's 6 speed and is still there. He starts with 4!

Kliff turned out alright. 19 speed as a lv 6 sage. He doubles barons with Sagittae, which is great since excalibur would rely on a crit to one round them.

Woah, my level 14 Sage Kliff has only 16 spd. Lukas has 10! 

My Mathilda apparently turned out very well, though. I tried comparing Clive until I realized he's still a low level Paladin whereas Mathilda's a level 3 gold knight; speaks to his worth in my game, especially as you recruit him earlier.

[FoxyGrandpa]

TBH, Clive turned out fine for me. He was able to promote immediately into a paladin after the zofia castle map and his bases and ridiculous mobility allowed him to to work on most of the maps I've played in chapter 3. Gave him Clair's lance and he's become a great mage killer as well. Did wind up to be a bit worse than mathilda, but his mobility and strength as a paladin always gave him some use.

I do feel the developers did not raise his growth rates enough from the original game, but 25% growth is still salvagable enough for solid level up gains (my Clive on average gets +1 in 2 to 3 stats per level up).

[Sire]

I think Clive being a bit crap is intentional. Even in the DLC that showcases the Deliverance, Mathilda has a higher rating than Clive despite Clive being the leader (final map - Siege of Zofia Castle).

Name		HP	ATK	SKL	SPD	LCK	DEF	RES	Total
Clive		29	14	9	8	7	9	1	77
Mathilda	24	11	12	14	13	8	10	92

For my first run on Hard Classic, I went Cavalier Faye and focused my efforts on her instead of Clive or Mathilda. In the end I ended up using Zeke because Faye did not turn out as good as I thought (and I had her equipped with a shield, so she wasn't killing anything).

I want to try and do a Deliverance run at some point (Clive, Mathilda, Clair, Lukas, Forsyth, Python), but I need to get the DLC first for the support convos...

[Tsak]

problem with Clive is he's always in mathilda's shadow (which honestly most cavs are in alms route)
Mine didn't turn out terribly, but he could be better. Maybe with a starshard and some early help Clive can turn out pretty decent. But honestly that works for most units
He's actually not a bad candidate for the villager fork

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 hours ago, Sire said:

I think Clive being a bit crap is intentional. Even in the DLC that showcases the Deliverance, Mathilda has a higher rating than Clive despite Clive being the leader (final map - Siege of Zofia Castle).

Name		HP	ATK	SKL	SPD	LCK	DEF	RES	Total
Clive		29	14	9	8	7	9	1	77
Mathilda	24	11	12	14	13	8	10	92

For my first run on Hard Classic, I went Cavalier Faye and focused my efforts on her instead of Clive or Mathilda. In the end I ended up using Zeke because Faye did not turn out as good as I thought (and I had her equipped with a shield, so she wasn't killing anything).

I want to try and do a Deliverance run at some point (Clive, Mathilda, Clair, Lukas, Forsyth, Python), but I need to get the DLC first for the support convos...

Apparently there's a bug with Deliverance DLC supports. Normally, they all have passive supports with each other, but if you do the DLC chapter that triggers the active support, they lose the bonus and don't get it back even with A Support.

[TheTrueKnight]

Clive's death quote is the one I saw the most, lel.