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Ark the Pie King

Clive - Why are you such dead weight?

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Clive is good at playing "pass the ridersbane" and comes almost T2 pre-promoted in act 1. He's about on par with Not-Camus at Ft-Freespice and gives better supports, he see's enough exp off his chiplording to hit gold knight in blitzkreig runs with limited to non-existant dungeon deployment. Cant really call that bad.

He's just stuck competing with Cav!Villagers, Mathilda, Claire, and Falco!Faye which is not a good place to be for any cav.

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I didn't find Clive to be bad, per se, but he didn't improve as much as anybody else did. Clive started out doing about 14 damage all the time, doing it in a single hit to quick-but-fragile units and in two hits on Knights and his fellow Cavaliers if he doubled them, and as the story progresses he's doing about the same amount of damage proportionally. The issue is that after a while many of my other units are ORKOing or 2RKOing enemies while Clive just never quite gets there.

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Forget Mathilda, when freaking Kliff turns out better than Clive know you he sucks.

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20 hours ago, L9999 said:

Forget Mathilda, when freaking Kliff turns out better than Clive know you he sucks.

Kliff's growth are amazing. What the hell are you talking about? Obviously Kliff is gonna be better than anyone else in the same class.

Clive isn't bad per se, It's just that every other comparable units is stronger than him.

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2 hours ago, Tamanoir said:

Kliff's growth are amazing. What the hell are you talking about? Obviously Kliff is gonna be better than anyone else in the same class.

Clive isn't bad per se, It's just that every other comparable units is stronger than him.

Have you seen Kliff's base stats? They suck. Yet he can catch up and beat Clive. That is pathetic.

Edited by L9999

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3 hours ago, Tamanoir said:

Kliff's growth are amazing. What the hell are you talking about? Obviously Kliff is gonna be better than anyone else in the same class.

Clive isn't bad per se, It's just that every other comparable units is stronger than him.

Kliff's growths are actually kinda bad. His 60% Spd growth is pretty good, but his 45% in Skl doesn't matter that much, and 40% in Def is on the shaky side. 30% in Atk is the real thing that kills him in the long run.

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3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Kliff's growths are actually kinda bad. His 60% Spd growth is pretty good, but his 45% in Skl doesn't matter that much, and 40% in Def is on the shaky side. 30% in Atk is the real thing that kills him in the long run.

Eyeballing everyone's growths, 40% Def is pretty solid, the highest is it with anyone is 50%. And remember the difference between a 50% and a 40% is 1 point over 10 levels, so it isn't enormous, a 45% is only 1 extra point over 20 levels. And Skl isn't quite so worthless in SoV I'd say given hits are far from guaranteed much of the time due to terrain. As for the Atk, yeah it's a problem, but forging or going Mage can fix that.

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8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Eyeballing everyone's growths, 40% Def is pretty solid, the highest is it with anyone is 50%. And remember the difference between a 50% and a 40% is 1 point over 10 levels, so it isn't enormous, a 45% is only 1 extra point over 20 levels. And Skl isn't quite so worthless in SoV I'd say given hits are far from guaranteed much of the time due to terrain. As for the Atk, yeah it's a problem, but forging or going Mage can fix that.

On average, 40% is definitely not bad, but probability doesn't really care about averages. 40% is a bit shaky in practice.

I guess yeah, Skill does help more than it does compared to other games. 1 point of Skl is just 1 point of Hit though, so it only starts to matter in the long term (and not at all for mages).

Forging helps, but resources to do so are a bit limited without some farming. Mage Kliff opens up a whole new can of worms kinda, but sure, it does reduce the demand for Atk growth.

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Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

On average, 40% is definitely not bad, but probability doesn't really care about averages. 40% is a bit shaky in practice.

 

To be fair, 50% is even more variable, there is an equal chance of gaining a point and not gaining a point- the maximum of inconsistency. To call a 50% growth worse than a 40% when all other things are equal, would be strange though.

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6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To be fair, 50% is even more variable, there is an equal chance of gaining a point and not gaining a point- the maximum of inconsistency. To call a 50% growth worse than a 40% when all other things are equal, would be strange though.

....Sure? Not sure if that changes anything.

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this might be considerd bad practice but i had him upgraded to gold knight asap and then he seems to do alright, at least he doesn't die as easily anymore.

but yeah he's a total dead weight compared to the rest of the crew. 

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God, Clive.  Why are you so bad?  Literally, the second I got Mathilda I benched him.  Then I laughed when I read his end game story, if I were Alm I would not have regarded him so highly.  In my run, Python and Clive were the worst units I had, but at least Python could contribute to whittling down the health of enemies.  All Clive did was die and hold everyone back.

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My Clive started out lackluster at first, but when I gave him some speed at the speed fountain in a later dungeon, he managed to do a lot better than normal. He even got some lucky speed level ups after that, to the point he had a higher speed stat than Mathilda. His strength was also about the same as his lover's. Mathilda was still the overall better unit though, especially in Defense and Resistance.

I don't mind Clive as a character. I liked how he is willing to admit his own weaknesses; it made him feel more human that way. He also gets bonus points for sharing the same Japanese VA that voiced Levi from Attack on Titan. 

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The closest thing Clive has to a niche is his ability to reach 20/20/20. He can thus get more levels than any other natural Cavalier in the game, which is especially important with Starsphere steroids. He's probably not competing with any Villagers, either.

Unfortunately, he had the bad luck of being in the game where it's not generally worthwhile to reach level 20, and the payoff for grinding him is still not very great compared to other characters with the same effort.

And thus he sucks.

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Eh, he does well enough for me. He's not the best, but he's not so awfully bad that I have to bench him, either. I actually quite like him as a character, so I use him a lot. He's currently a Gold Knight for me, along with Mathilda ^.^

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On 6/6/2017 at 5:23 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was only commenting on you calling 40% shaky, when 50% is even shakier. That's all.

Sorry, I didn't see this since I didn't check back.

Your statement isn't wrong, but it's also not very meaningful lol. Obviously 40% means there's a higher chance of one possibility happening than the other, but it's not the possibility that we want. A 50% growth is never worse than a 40% growth.

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On 6/7/2017 at 10:14 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

To be fair, 50% is even more variable, there is an equal chance of gaining a point and not gaining a point- the maximum of inconsistency. To call a 50% growth worse than a 40% when all other things are equal, would be strange though.

Nobody would complain about being blessed, though. When people are talking about shaky growths they mean the probability of being below average, which is higher for 30% and 40% than 50%.

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On 6/7/2017 at 10:53 PM, Mox said:

God, Clive.  Why are you so bad?  Literally, the second I got Mathilda I benched him.  Then I laughed when I read his end game story, if I were Alm I would not have regarded him so highly.  In my run, Python and Clive were the worst units I had, but at least Python could contribute to whittling down the health of enemies.  All Clive did was die and hold everyone back.

If you think that's lulz worthy, check out Mathilda and Clive's A support convo.

Spoiler

Claire complains to Mathilda that she shows Clive up. It's pretty much canon that Mathilda is the battle goddess she is compared to Clive.

Anyway, Clive is what you get if you were to make Gray a cavalier, and give him less levels to grow.

Edited by maninbluejumpsuit

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1 hour ago, Sable Argyle said:

You guys are giving Clive too much flak, he does have a purpose.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

He supports Mathilda from the sidelines

 

He does give Hit and Crit, so he is a pretty good backpack.

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Hmm... all this talk makes me wonder if I'm rgn blessed. Just got to the point where we get Zeke and my Clive has more or less similar stats total to him despite being 5 levels below. Are Zeke and Clive supposed to be equally bad? 

Anyway, Mathilda beats them in every way possible. What a goddess.

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8 hours ago, Okigen said:

Hmm... all this talk makes me wonder if I'm rgn blessed. Just got to the point where we get Zeke and my Clive has more or less similar stats total to him despite being 5 levels below. Are Zeke and Clive supposed to be equally bad? 

Anyway, Mathilda beats them in every way possible. What a goddess.

Sounds like you got blessed as my Zeke was better right out of recruitment and became more prevalent with each level  Zeke's 2-4 stats on level up compared to Clives 1-2 with rare +3 gains. The only stat My Clive wins in is Attack and that was probably particularly blessed as he has slightly higher attack than Mathilda (though all other stats are vastly inferior)

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10 hours ago, Okigen said:

Hmm... all this talk makes me wonder if I'm rgn blessed. Just got to the point where we get Zeke and my Clive has more or less similar stats total to him despite being 5 levels below. Are Zeke and Clive supposed to be equally bad? 

Anyway, Mathilda beats them in every way possible. What a goddess.

Zeke has the highest growth total in the game, sooooo...

That being said, his individual growths aren't super high, so he's far from screw-proof.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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