Medieval elements that FE hasn't done yet.

[Harvey]

In this thread, we name medieval elements that FE hasn't added or done yet since FE has always placed itself in the medieval setting.

For example, as of now FE hasn't done Orcs/Trolls or Goblins yet.

So list a lot of medieval fantasy elements that FE has yet to implement or add.

 

[StahlTheStall]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

 

For example, as of now FE hasn't done Orcs/Trolls or Goblins yet.

 

Uh, I think that these creatures are in the "fantasy" category and not the "medieval" category...

[Harvey]

10 minutes ago, StahlTheStall said:

Uh, I think that these creatures are in the "fantasy" category and not the "medieval" category...

In FE's case, lots of the medieval stuff are fantasy such as dragons and mages so technically, its case in point.

Otherwise what according to you is medieval?

 

[StahlTheStall]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Otherwise what according to you is medieval?

In FE's case, yes, the fantasy category is merged with the medieval category so the orcs and trolls still counts. The actual "medieval" category for me is probably the history stuff ._.

[Godhand]

Some storyline based off the Plague or the Crusades would be interesting if they haven't already done it

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The first thing I thought of was plague. And all we could expect from that is "Fatigue but your units die instead of stay home or get stat penalties". Not something I think players would like. The unfortunate truth about medieval times is that most deaths came about by sickness, not sweet sword fighting. And without knowledge of bacteria or inventions like vaccines, sickness was random and sometimes unavoidable without executing/retiring your own men that show symptoms. There's are reasons why illness isn't explored in fantasy stories. 

You could easily pick out fantasy concepts from a DnD handbook that haven't shown up in Fire Emblem. Druids and Dryads could be interesting. If you've played Echoes, there's a wealth of terrors and curses that are absent from the other games. I also feel this series has a lot of work to do explaining how magic works as well as transforming species. Do you need tomes and beaststones? We have conflicting evidence.

[NekoKnight]

In regards to general warfare, the importance of supplies hasn't been touched on much. We haven't seen story or gameplay examples of castles being starved out or crippling an army by destroying their supply lines (although there was that one chapter in RD).

There have been defensive structures like balista but siege weapons aren't used very much. Castle sieges generally entail walking through the front door.

I guess tactics in general isn't really a story highlight. You just deploy units and the player decides how they approach a level. Actual discussion and implementation of strategies (like Robin burning the Valmese fleet) is rare.

[vanguard333]

Medieval elements would be things like siege warfare and what it actually takes to lay siege to a castle. In fact, castles were so good at their job, that a majority of sieges involved the attackers not actually trying to get into the castle, but wait outside and let the people inside run out of food and starve. With siege comes siege towers, siege ladders, giving archers a bit more importance, and lots of other things. Another medieval thing that has been absent from FE: chain mail. Armour in FE goes from cloth to plate.

There are lots of fantasy elements that FE has not used yet: elves, dwarves, and orcs being the big three. But, in my opinion, it is good that Fire Emblem is staying away from those three. As much as I like that some more recent fantasies are finding more creative, less Tolkien-like ways to portray them, but they're still using them. In my opinion, the manaketes and laguz are more unique and more creative, and I like that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are courageous enough to use fictional races they came up with rather than fantasy clichés; it's also something I like about Legend of Zelda. Another fantasy element from which FE should just stay away: leather armour. Leather armour did not exist in medieval Europe, and it is floppy and ridiculous.

[Darros]

I'm surprised we haven't seen real maces or morningstars yet. That would be pretty cool!

[SavageVolug]

Here are things I would like to see that are medieval.

1) More cavaliers but give them FULL PLATE armor

2) More units with a spear and shield combo. Like the Pike men of history, and the shield walls that Romans, Vikings and other groups employed. Units with a sword and shield and axe and shield assuming they're not using a greatsword or poleaxe.

3) Have castles designed so that they are HARD to capture

4) Units who wear "less protective" armor are wearing chainmail such as maybe the fighter and myrmidon classes for example

5) I would like to see more weapon types, like greatswords, two handed swords, hand and a half swords, poleaxes, halberds double bit axes etc

[Thane]

18 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

There have been defensive structures like balista but siege weapons aren't used very much. Castle sieges generally entail walking through the front door.

See, this is even funnier because Soren has to school Skrimir on why people build forts and other defensive structures in the first place. It's like Skrimir was Intelligent Systems and Soren that one guy who knew a little about medieval strategies and didn't want things to get too anime.

I think blood feuds and similar themes of vengeance and house honor could be interesting. Sure, we've had some focus on this, but it usually relates to special blood lines that allow you to do super awesome things or wield the legendary weapon of legend. Family feuds, something that might've been touched upon in Genealogy of the Holy War, could be really swell. Oh, and I realize you could make the argument that it's what FE4 is about to begin with, but is it really though? I mean sure, you get Seliph and his ragtag bunch of misfits trying to bring peace to the world and avenge their parents, but seeing as Julius threatened the entire world, wouldn't they have done that anyway? 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

3) Have castles designed so that they are HARD to capture

It's pretty hard to come up with a castle that is both realistic in its difficulty of capture but still be a fun level at the same time, as Echoes has shown.

[qwernst]

Bring back Crossbows.

[Slumber]

On 6/7/2017 at 5:16 AM, Harvey said:

In FE's case, lots of the medieval stuff are fantasy such as dragons and mages so technically, its case in point.

Otherwise what according to you is medieval?

 

Dragons and magic go back to King Arthur and Beowulf(Probably even further back, I can only think of Greek legends that come before those), over 1000 years ago, written DURING the medieval period.

Orcs were a Tolkien invention less than a century ago, and trolls are typically Scandinavian. Not out of the realm of possibility for FE, but they'd have to come in a very Scandinavian-inspired FE. We have Jugdral, but Jugdral doesn't have fantasy monsters outside of dragons.

All-in-all, dragons aside, Fire Emblem games are typically more on the low-fantasy side, and the times it strays are usually original creations(IE Laguz). Orcs are generally high-fantasy.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Slumber

[Acacia Sgt]

It's not Medieval until you go full Crusader Kings on it.

In a semi-related matter, FE needs more stuff like merchant republics. Best I know, Carcino has been the only one in like... ever. I suppose then it means it has been done, but I would think it needs to be done more. Forget lord or even peasant merc. Next FE protagonist needs to be a Doge.

[NekoKnight]

10 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

In my opinion, the manaketes and laguz are more unique and more creative, and I like that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are courageous enough to use fictional races they came up with rather than fantasy clichés

Yeah, I'm glad FE is distinct from Tolkien-esque settings. FE's dragon lore is pretty unique.

9 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

1) More cavaliers but give them FULL PLATE armor

4) Units who wear "less protective" armor are wearing chainmail such as maybe the fighter and myrmidon classes for example

While I think I can forgive some fantasy 'armor' for the purpose of stylistic differences, Fighters at least need a major design overhaul.

3 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

It's pretty hard to come up with a castle that is both realistic in its difficulty of capture but still be a fun level at the same time, as Echoes has shown.

The problem with a number of SoVs castle 'sieges' is the level didn't have enough defenders where they should (Castle Zofia has two undefended gates and only one rampart with soldiers on it) or had Cantor BS dragging the level down. I'd say the best castle was Grieth's Citadel (Cantor nonsense and desert tiles notwithstanding). What a castle needs to be is tough but with exploitable weaknesses. Of course, if you are the defender, it's even easier to design a fun battle of attrition.

56 minutes ago, Slumber said:

All-in-all, dragons aside, Fire Emblem games are typically more on the low-fantasy side, and the times it strays are usually original creations(IE Laguz). Orcs are generally high-fantasy.

I don't think a series with mages and pegasus as regular classes can be considered low fantasy.

Edited June 9, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

I don't think a series with mages and pegasus as regular classes can be considered low fantasy.

Compared to Lord of the Rings, and other Tolkien-inspired fantasies? Fire Emblem is pretty low.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Plague, caused by the unsanitary conditions of Medieval times. Randomly one of your most promising units is struck down with sickness for a few chapters or just pulls an Arran and straight up dies at the ending.

[NekoKnight]

36 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Compared to Lord of the Rings, and other Tolkien-inspired fantasies? Fire Emblem is pretty low.

They're both high fantasy but I'd argue LotR is lower. You have a few enchanted items and some fantasy races but most of the conflicts are settled with swords and the like. Fire Emblem has magic and mythical creatures as normal elements of society, not to mention things like the undead, demons and other fantasy races.

Fire Emblem is only 'low' if you are looking exclusively at the intelligent races (and even then you have Laguz, Manaketes, Taguels, Wolfskin and Spirit Foxes).

 

[qwernst]

I'm most likely stretching, but hear me out....Why not have a Renaissance setting? Or even a Fire Emblem set as Explorers traveling to the New World.

[Slumber]

24 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

They're both high fantasy but I'd argue LotR is lower. You have a few enchanted items and some fantasy races but most of the conflicts are settled with swords and the like. Fire Emblem has magic and mythical creatures as normal elements of society, not to mention things like the undead, demons and other fantasy races.

Fire Emblem is only 'low' if you are looking exclusively at the intelligent races (and even then you have Laguz, Manaketes, Taguels, Wolfskin and Spirit Foxes).

 

Each FE game in a vacuum is lower than Lord of the Rings.

If you put them all together as one big thing, then you might have an argument, but comparing one world from the FE franchise to Lord of the Rings? No, I'm sorry, but it's just not how it works.

The story of Lord of the Rings is a bunch of hobbits, a dwarf, an elf, a normal humans, a wizard, and a half-elf that can summon an army of ghosts all travel across the land to drop a ring that belonged to an all-powerful sorcerer into a volcano. Along the way they meet a bunch of walking trees, fight a troll, fight a tentacle monster, run from a giant fire demon/wizard thing, run from wraiths constantly, kill a giant demon spider, hide from orcs, fight orcs, and two old men fling each other across a room with magic. All while a giant eye watches over everything. And a BUNCH of crazy shit that's too minor to mention compared to walking trees.

And don't even get me started on the shit in the Silmarillian.

One of the tamer things that happens throughout the books is that Smaug is a thing. Dragons are typically the apex to the crazy shit that happens in Fire Emblem games. In the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings series, Smaug is a minor thing that happens compared to what follows, because it has a much, much higher fantasy setting.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Slumber

[Harvey]

I'm noticing the comments about Plague. Didn't Fates: Conquest somewhat did that?

 

[KoimanZX]

14 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Medieval elements would be things like siege warfare and what it actually takes to lay siege to a castle. In fact, castles were so good at their job, that a majority of sieges involved the attackers not actually trying to get into the castle, but wait outside and let the people inside run out of food and starve. With siege comes siege towers, siege ladders, giving archers a bit more importance, and lots of other things. Another medieval thing that has been absent from FE: chain mail. Armour in FE goes from cloth to plate.

There are lots of fantasy elements that FE has not used yet: elves, dwarves, and orcs being the big three. But, in my opinion, it is good that Fire Emblem is staying away from those three. As much as I like that some more recent fantasies are finding more creative, less Tolkien-like ways to portray them, but they're still using them. In my opinion, the manaketes and laguz are more unique and more creative, and I like that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are courageous enough to use fictional races they came up with rather than fantasy clichés; it's also something I like about Legend of Zelda. Another fantasy element from which FE should just stay away: leather armour. Leather armour did not exist in medieval Europe, and it is floppy and ridiculous.

To be fair, gambeson (padded, cloth armor) is actually quite effective. I also believe that chain mail is absent from the designs simply because it is a massive pain to draw it. Even then, the art team would probably draw butted mail rather than the plated mail that was used back then (although butted mail was used in conjunction with gambeson, so I guess that could work). The best thing they could do is find a bunch of reference images of historical armor on Google and go from there. I definitely agree that it is a good thing that this series does not rehash Tolkien like many other "fantasy" series (and you are right about leather armor being stupid).

1 hour ago, qwernst said:

I'm most likely stretching, but hear me out....Why not have a Renaissance setting? Or even a Fire Emblem set as Explorers traveling to the New World.

You are definitely not alone in that sentiment (I want it too).

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, qwernst said:

I'm most likely stretching, but hear me out....Why not have a Renaissance setting? Or even a Fire Emblem set as Explorers traveling to the New World.

Because otherwise, we'd have another One Piece rip off....:P

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

I recall them mentioning a plague that struck Serenes some years before the kingdom's destruction in RD, but it's so removed from things its a totally forgettable detail. (Said plague also struck in Daein, but that was retconned into a case Bloodpactbadwritingitis.) I wouldn't mind having a plague happen though in FE, kill off cherished NPC of the MC or two, and build up some general sense of the horrors of war that way. Set it during a stalemate in a campaign between two sides- the plague encourages some on each side to demand their respective leaders to either abandon the war (add flavor text where someone speaks of musings of desertion and mutiny among the ranks), or force a decisive battle so as to end the campaign.

I'm in agreement with the idea we could do a better castle/town siege. To make things dynamic, add a boatload of Allied NPC yellow units- make it a grandiose one-off battle. Escorting siege towers/battering rams or catapults/ballistae (the successful defense of which triggers the next phase in the fight, with a possible map change) while under attack by the enemy and preventing a pincer strike between forces from the enemy stronghold and reinforcements from without would be one thing they could try.

And I do want more actual strategies being employed, less charging directly into the foe (see FE1 and 6) or the enemy suddenly besetting on the heroes (see FE7). The first half or so of Part 3 in FE10 I love because it feels like a real military campaign.