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Azzurohr

Why Lucia acted the way she did in Chapter 24

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OKAY. 

So, Lucia's my favourite character from FE9/10, let alone Fire Emblem itself. In both Tellius Recollection books, Lucia is describe as a master of the blade, highly adaptable and quick witted enough to come up with brilliant strategies in emergencies...

...SO WHY THE SHIT IS THIS NOT THE CASE IN CHAPTER 24? (excuse my language).

The obvious go to answer is; to make Ike look good. They dumb down Lucia's personality and intelligence JUST to make Ike look good and drive the plot of the story, because Ike HAS to drive the plot of the story and show he's 'grown as a character' right? Okay, at the sake of dumbing down another character? Yeah okay, thanks writes of Ike, thanks so much for that. But of course, there are plenty of people who will deny this, let alone find some other go around explanation for why this scene is the way it is.

Well STOP RIGHT THERE. Because I actually have an answer already, having headcanoned out Lucia like no tomorrow because hello, she's my favourite character. 

We all know Lucia is Elincia's sworn protector, bodyguard and retainer. Yet it does not make sense that she did not go with Geoffrey to see Elincia safely towards Gallia, does it now? So my theory is that Duke Renning actually ordered Lucia to stay behind; whether it was to divert the soldiers coming at them, to go seek refuge/assistance at Delbray Castle etc. for whatever reason, he ordered her to stay behind. This was to Lucia's protest and reluctance, but she knew better than to question Duke Renning and the authority in charge; so she went with it...and of course, she would end up forever regretting not standing up to Renning as a result as Elincia became "lost". 

Skip ahead to Chapter 24. Lucia is informed that the Daein Army found Geoffrey and co. and has it ready the army needs to change course to find somewhere else to be safe, to Elincia's protest. Ike however; comes in to denounce her plans...the same thing is happening again. Another "authority" figure, if you can even call Ike that, is coming and telling her to not take Elincia to safety herself; and last time, Elincia was nearly lost forever. Having just reunited with her and learned she was alive, added with the pressure of her brother and Bastian also with this plan set already; Lucia is practically panicking. It's even worse when some inexperienced kid is the one trying to override her (Lucia's 22, Ike's merely 17). So Lucia acts angry and aggravated towards Ike per se, very out of her character, because she is panicking and terrified the same events are going to happen again; and in the process, she's forgotten and lost she is ignoring Elincia's very same feelings of losing them after reuniting with them one year on (and she has lost all her family too; her parents and her uncle). 

...And then it has to be Ike that reminds her of this because a) he needs to look good in the face of 'nobles' and Elincia's trained 'retainers' b) need some way to show he's grown over his journey and c) he's driving the plot. SIGHS. 

But yeah. That's my reasoning for why. Sorry to sound all condescending with the Ike talk, but...I'm rather understandably pissed they dumbed down a character I love for his sake, when she's plain as day described as being quick-witted and highly adaptable to come up with brilliant strategies (and this was not one of those at all). End mix of rant/explanation here? Yes, I think so lol.

Edited by Azzurohr

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yeah the Bastian-Lucia stubborness in C24 was wholly for the sake of making Ike special. Even someone not so driven by a fondness for Lucia (or Bastian, who is also a genius) can see that. As for the headcanon- suit yourself. 

It's more like my coping mechanism to deal with the stupidity each time I'm reminded or play Chapter 24 -_-" 

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It's stuff like this that make me dislike Ike even more. I love PoR to death, but the game tries way too hard to always make him look good. Everything always works out for him in the end and he never suffers any true consequence for his actions.

Bit off topic, but yeah. I could never truly understand that scene. Lucia would never have been that willing to leave her brother behind, especially at the expense of Elincia feelings.

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What? I thought neither Geoffrey NOR Lucia were part of Elincia's escort and that it was only Kieran's unit that did so. Kieran himself states that his platoon was their escort and that except for him, they were killed in battle and he was captured and put in that prison. But Geoffrey is obviously alive. And if he was with Kieran, why wasn't he captured too? If he would've just evaded capture, why didn't he try to help Kieran? None of this makes sense, so I thought the only answer was that Geoffrey wasn't even there.

Besides, Lucia says later that she, Geoffrey, and Bastian were in Melior disguised as merchants and a performer.

I don't think it was bad writing for Lucia to tell Elincia to leave instead of try to help Geoffrey. She didn't want Elincia risking her life or going into a fight she might not win. If Elincia died, Crimea has no royal family and the throne falls to one of those nobles they don't like (probably Ludveck due to RD part 2), If Geoffrey died, another knight would've taken his place as general, simple. All Ike is doing here is obeying Elincia's orders. Nothing more. He really has a small role in this bit.

I don't get why people complain about this scene and yet praise Elincia when she "chooses" to sacrifice Lucia in RD. Lucia is basically doing the same thing here, but for her brother. She's choosing to let him die to keep the Crimean royal line alive, at least in her eyes. Geoffrey's job is to serve his country and fight for them. And this obviously forces him to risk getting killed or put in a situation where he would definitely be killed. If laying down his life meant that Crimea would have a good leader, at least to him, he'd do it, and Lucia would approve since she's just as loyal. Nothing wrong with how it was written. In fact, I'd say Geoffrey is more loyal to Elincia by herself than his country, which is one thing I never liked about him. Like I said, his duty is to his country, not simply to one person.

And I don't even care for Lucia much because she just didn't get enough personality or depth to me. Same with Geoffrey, actually. But she was NOT dumbed down here and was honestly realistically written in my opinion. I'm defending her here.

Edited by Anacybele

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I assumed Lucia, Geoffrey, and Bastian weren't in Melior when Ashnard invaded. There might be some bits in the script to support this too, I forget.

As for leaving Geoffrey, I got the impression that Lucia and Bastian were conditioned to flee since they've been in hiding for a year. Contrast with Ike's group coming off of win after win after win.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I don't get why people complain about this scene and yet praise Elincia when she "chooses" to sacrifice Lucia in RD. Lucia is basically doing the same thing here, but for her brother. She's choosing to let him die to keep the Crimean royal line alive, at least in her eyes. Geoffrey's job is to serve his country and fight for them. And this obviously forces him to risk getting killed or put in a situation where he would definitely be killed. If laying down his life meant that Crimea would have a good leader, at least to him, he'd do it, and Lucia would approve since she's just as loyal. Nothing wrong with how it was written. In fact, I'd say Geoffrey is more loyal to Elincia by herself than his country, which is one thing I never liked about him. Like I said, his duty is to his country, not simply to one person.

And I don't even care for Lucia much because she just didn't get enough personality or depth to me. Same with Geoffrey, actually. But she was NOT dumbed down here and was honestly realistically written in my opinion. I'm defending her here.

I care to disagree, the situations are different. Lucia was literally hanging by a thread in the enemies hands, it'd only take few moments for them to snap her neck. Geoffrey on the other hand wasn't in enemy captivity, he was armed and fighting with his troops. It isn't like the force attacking Geoffrey was humongous and lead by Ashnard or the Black Knight- it was just a little Daein patrol unit. Plus, Elincia didn't have to endanger herself, she could easily pull back to safety and surrounded herself with an army of Beginon forces, while leaving Ike and co. to handle everything- it isn't like they had to fear a flank attack with Daein conquered. Furthermore, while any soldier acknowledges that death and injury are occupational hazards they must accept as being part of the job, the employer, Her Majesty Elincia, is nonetheless obligated to do what she reasonably can to prevent such hazards from happening- it'd be neglectful if she did not.

It comes off as forced martyrdom- Geoffrey was begging for it, and Lucia and Bastian were set on giving it to him. Yet such a choice is utterly illogical when Crimea has a very real chance of being liberated, and the force attacking Geoffrey again wasn't overwhelmingly strong. Martyrdom when the only other choices are: ignoble death, life imprisonment, and or being forever repressed; makes sense and is a fine option, but not when the light at the end of the tunnel shines with the brilliance of a supernova. Geoffrey, dare I say was being utterly selfish, obsessed with his own postmortem honor, he forsook his liege's real desire to see him alive.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I care to disagree, the situations are different. Lucia was literally hanging by a thread in the enemies hands, it'd only take few moments for them to snap her neck. Geoffrey on the other hand wasn't in enemy captivity, he was armed and fighting with his troops. It isn't like the force attacking Geoffrey was humongous and lead by Ashnard or the Black Knight- it was just a little Daein patrol unit. Plus, Elincia didn't have to endanger herself, she could easily pull back to safety and surrounded herself with an army of Beginon forces, while leaving Ike and co. to handle everything- it isn't like they had to fear a flank attack with Daein conquered. Furthermore, while any soldier acknowledges that death and injury are occupational hazards they must accept as being part of the job, the employer, Her Majesty Elincia, is nonetheless obligated to do what she reasonably can to prevent such hazards from happening- it'd be neglectful if she did not.

It comes off as forced martyrdom- Geoffrey was begging for it, and Lucia and Bastian were set on giving it to him. Yet such a choice is utterly illogical when Crimea has a very real chance of being liberated, and the force attacking Geoffrey again wasn't overwhelmingly strong. Martyrdom when the only other choices are: ignoble death, life imprisonment, and or being forever repressed; makes sense and is a fine option, but not when the light at the end of the tunnel shines with the brilliance of a supernova. Geoffrey, dare I say was being utterly selfish, obsessed with his own postmortem honor, he forsook his liege's real desire to see him alive.

I still disagree. How do you know how big that Daein force was? And how did Lucia or Bastian know? Geoffrey was in a very dangerous spot, no question. He didn't have a noose around his neck like Lucia did, but he might as well have.

Edited by Anacybele

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10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I still disagree. How do you know how big that Daein force was? And how did Lucia or Bastian know? Geoffrey was in a very dangerous spot, no question. He didn't have a noose around his neck like Lucia did, but he might as well have.

I concede that the script speaks nothing of the size of the attacking Daein force, and that my assertion was based wholly on a look at the battle map, which isn't the best of ways for determining the number of enemies plot-wise. So it's up in the air here- maybe it was a lot, maybe it wasn't.

Lucia's assertion "They were lost to us the moment the enemy discovered and surrounded them!" is still a bit irrational to me. I mean Geoffrey's got a castle to hide in, he shouldn't die that fast if it's remotely fortified and if he has any talent for war. And the castle he's holding out in is Castle Delbray- his very own castle which he's been hiding in for about a year, so he should know it's defenses intimately. Lastly, the battle lasts a day tops, that isn't very long at all.

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I concede that the script speaks nothing of the size of the attacking Daein force, and that my assertion was based wholly on a look at the battle map, which isn't the best of ways for determining the number of enemies plot-wise. So it's up in the air here- maybe it was a lot, maybe it wasn't.

Lucia's assertion "They were lost to us the moment the enemy discovered and surrounded them!" is still a bit irrational to me. I mean Geoffrey's got a castle to hide in, he shouldn't die that fast if it's remotely fortified and if he has any talent for war. And the castle he's holding out in is Castle Delbray- his very own castle which he's been hiding in for about a year, so he should know it's defenses intimately. Lastly, the battle lasts a day tops, that isn't very long at all.

However, this still doesn't make much sense regardless if we don't know the size of the force. If Crimea + Begnion can't take out a force that could be used to obtain more units at this point, the war is lost. Especially when the forces they are attempting to save are fortified here and can last quite some time alone-- or as the script put it, to work as a decoy, but may not survive without assistance. I'd argue that if the counter argument is "you don't know the size of the force," this makes Ike's decision to charge in headfirst because "Elincia ordered it" braindead, because it means that he's literally fine with going on a suicide mission. A force that could hypothetically provide a decoy (something that Tellius just loves to use as a "strategy" ) 

Lucia's assertion here doesn't even begin to make a lick of sense honestly. Because they have troops there already, and avoiding combat with Elincia's current threshold of troops would be more difficult than actually fighting them at this point. Especially because we can clearly see from the map itself that if another set of troops came in where you start, that the Daein troops cannot retreat. They have absolutely no maneuverability outside of going through the mountains. And even if you argue that Daein's troops could try to sausage Elincia's troops here, they don't have the sheer force of numbers to actually make this particularly effective because Begnion is still supporting Crimea.

So no, chalk this up to another poorly written scene. Lucia and Bastian are borderline pushing for Geoffrey's death here. 

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