Which Robin? (Poll Closed)

[Deva Ashera]

7 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I think we're wasting our time. She seems dead set on alts whether it makes sense or not.

There isn't any 'sense' to make or not make. You are only focusing on how it would affect the Story Mode, ostensibly one of the smallest modes in a Warriors game, and I've already given very easy ways to fix that tiny issue. I'll list them again since you seem to willfully ignore or disregard them.

1) Flag said Alt so that it will not show up in cutscenes, only in gameplay.

2) Only allow default costumes to be used in Story Mode (but allow them in Free Play Mode).

3) Keep as is for a 'humorous' effect of the wrong voice coming out. This would be similar to using Jeanne or Rosa in the Story Mode of Bayonetta 2 (or just Jeanne in Bayonetta 1) where they appear in Bayonetta's place in cutscenes but with Bayonetta's voice (and also end up with some scenes having two Jeannes or Rosas). It's not something most people make a big deal out of because they KNOW how it's supposed to be.

8 hours ago, Folt said:

You could do those, but 1. Hyrule Warriors uses grunts. That's a considerably easier hurdle to cross if alternate costumes are in play, and as far as I know, all of the alternate costumes in Hyrule Warriors is essentially the character dressing up as another (whether it's a previous incarnation or a different character) or in a state of lacking certain pieces of headwear (when they aren't simply being palette swaps). 2. All of Link's costumes are based on his adult form, model-wise. 3. HW!Link's facial features remain on each of those costumes which is particularly jarring for the OoT, TP, and SS costumes. 4. Dark Link (as separate from Link) is treated as an entity that shares the moves of the original, but has Officer level (Lizalfos, Darknut, Hylian Captain, etc.) health to justify having more of them on the battlefield at the same time.

1) It still wouldn't cause much issue, I feel. I mean, Smash & Tekken haven't had any issues with character/gender alts. It's also due to there not being any characters that can appear as different genders.

2) That's due to having to keep the moveset 1:1 with no animation hick ups. Smash did the same for all gender/character alts. This is why both Robins, the Koopalings/Bowser Jr, both Wii Fit Trainers, both Corrins, and others like Lucina & Marth all have the same proportions as the other(s).

3) They re-used the face models to aid in keeping animations consistent since the faces between Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Impa are all similar enough to past iterations not to matter much. Smash and Tekken both shown this isn't a hard issue to overcome.

4) I don't know where you are going with this, honestly. I'm simply saying that, technically, Link & Dark Link are different characters but you can use Dark Link, as a costume, in Story Mode.

I also think it'd be odd to have this be the only game where you can't play as either gender of Robin or Corrin (disregarding any amiibo appearances of Male Robin..since there is no female Robin amiibo).

4 hours ago, EricaofRenais said:

Even though I always play as female Robin so I can marry Priam, I have always liked male Robin better in terms of character he just comes across better to me.  So I think male Robin will be in and he is the Robin I want as well.

I kinda want female Robin default if only for the possibility of a female Robin amiibo being made for this game.

[Folt]

6 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

1) It still wouldn't cause much issue, I feel. I mean, Smash & Tekken haven't had any issues with character/gender alts. It's also due to there not being any characters that can appear as different genders.

2) That's due to having to keep the moveset 1:1 with no animation hick ups. Smash did the same for all gender/character alts. This is why both Robins, the Koopalings/Bowser Jr, both Wii Fit Trainers, both Corrins, and others like Lucina & Marth all have the same proportions as the other(s).

3) They re-used the face models to aid in keeping animations consistent since the faces between Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Sheik, and Impa are all similar enough to past iterations not to matter much. Smash and Tekken both shown this isn't a hard issue to overcome.

4) I don't know where you are going with this, honestly. I'm simply saying that, technically, Link & Dark Link are different characters but you can use Dark Link, as a costume, in Story Mode.

I also think it'd be odd to have this be the only game where you can't play as either gender of Robin or Corrin (disregarding any amiibo appearances of Male Robin..since there is no female Robin amiibo).

I kinda want female Robin default if only for the possibility of a female Robin amiibo being made for this game.

1. Smash and Tekken don't have that issue because the voicework needed is not as extensive compared to a more cutscene-heavy game. They also don't have to do much with the models other than make sure they play as intended for the fights (and the victory animations).

2-3. Indeed. They're basically the same character or reincarnations of the same character after all. And as for Smash and Tekken, See point 1. This game however however features much more extensive animating and voicework which worked for the HW alts since they kept the 1:1 animations and moveset, which also allows them to appear in cutscenes which I actually thought was a pretty neat touch (though not all of them transitioned as nicely). The way alts worked for Smash Bros. and Tekken won't necessarily be the best or the most practical option for this game.

4. Dark Link, when things come down to it, is pretty much an all-black mute Link. And that is not very difficult to implement at all for anything.

[HK Motendra]

Ayo, where's mah Grima option? I refuse to vote til then

[Deva Ashera]

19 hours ago, Folt said:

1. Smash and Tekken don't have that issue because the voicework needed is not as extensive compared to a more cutscene-heavy game. They also don't have to do much with the models other than make sure they play as intended for the fights (and the victory animations).

2-3. Indeed. They're basically the same character or reincarnations of the same character after all. And as for Smash and Tekken, See point 1. This game however however features much more extensive animating and voicework which worked for the HW alts since they kept the 1:1 animations and moveset, which also allows them to appear in cutscenes which I actually thought was a pretty neat touch (though not all of them transitioned as nicely). The way alts worked for Smash Bros. and Tekken won't necessarily be the best or the most practical option for this game.

4. Dark Link, when things come down to it, is pretty much an all-black mute Link. And that is not very difficult to implement at all for anything.

Essentially the same thing that they need here, honestly. They can, as I've said many times now, code in a flag to make the character model default to the default costume if an incompatible costume is used for it.

As for any other animation issues you believe could happen due to different facial models, Bayonetta 1 & 2 already shown that isn't much of an issue by allowing you to play and appear as Jeanne or Rosa in place of Bayonetta in both gameplay and cutscenes..and I'm pretty sure Bayonetta 1 & 2 have more complicated cutscenes (and arguably gameplay) then the Warriors series has. The face would really be the only big difference since Smash shown that Robin and Corrin's different genders can have the same skeletal proportions with no issues. That's actually a bigger issue for competitive fighter games like Smash then one like Warriors where fighters HAVE to be 1:1 while Warriors can flub it a little since there's no competitive aspect where every single frame counts and one miniscule difference could effect a ton.

Also, you are literally only looking at the Story side of things, which they could just disable costumes on if it was actually a big deal, leaving them for the Free Play Mode and the larger, more time-consuming Coliseum Mode.

[Folt]

5 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

Essentially the same thing that they need here, honestly. They can, as I've said many times now, code in a flag to make the character model default to the default costume if an incompatible costume is used for it.

As for any other animation issues you believe could happen due to different facial models, Bayonetta 1 & 2 already shown that isn't much of an issue by allowing you to play and appear as Jeanne or Rosa in place of Bayonetta in both gameplay and cutscenes..and I'm pretty sure Bayonetta 1 & 2 have more complicated cutscenes (and arguably gameplay) then the Warriors series has. The face would really be the only big difference since Smash shown that Robin and Corrin's different genders can have the same skeletal proportions with no issues. That's actually a bigger issue for competitive fighter games like Smash then one like Warriors where fighters HAVE to be 1:1 while Warriors can flub it a little since there's no competitive aspect where every single frame counts and one miniscule difference could effect a ton.

Also, you are literally only looking at the Story side of things, which they could just disable costumes on if it was actually a big deal, leaving them for the Free Play Mode and the larger, more time-consuming Coliseum Mode.

But Jeanne and Rosa aren't alt costumes: They're their own separate characters with their own differences from Bayonetta. You also forget that while Warriors games aren't competitive fighting games, they're still combo-heavy and with aspects that can determine how good they are in comparison to the other if an alt. makes the character I'm playing as worse, you can bet that I won't use that alt. very much.

Besides, if costumes are going to be disabled during a mode, there'd best be a better reason for it than the one you've given me here. I don't see why they should disable it considering Hyrule Warriors didn't.

[Deva Ashera]

7 hours ago, Folt said:

But Jeanne and Rosa aren't alt costumes: They're their own separate characters with their own differences from Bayonetta. You also forget that while Warriors games aren't competitive fighting games, they're still combo-heavy and with aspects that can determine how good they are in comparison to the other if an alt. makes the character I'm playing as worse, you can bet that I won't use that alt. very much.

Besides, if costumes are going to be disabled during a mode, there'd best be a better reason for it than the one you've given me here. I don't see why they should disable it considering Hyrule Warriors didn't.

Yes, they are, but they both mesh over Bayonetta's skeleton during cutscenes 1:1 and use the exact same movesets with only certain effects disabled or enabled. They are essentially glorified costumes and serve my point just the same that you can have a different shape to the model, particularly it's face, but still work 1:1 in regards to animations and movements, including in complicated cutscenes, as long as they model itself has very few differences, which the alt genders fit.

The point I'm getting at is that there would be absolutely NO differences in animations, movements, etc. It would be exactly like with Smash Bros. and Bayonetta if alt costumes were implemented. They would cause absolutely no issues from a gameplay or animations standpoint. The only question would be if they would be allowed to appear in cutscenes for a humorous 'lol wrong voice' spin on a scene or if they would just default back to costume slot 1 in those instances.

I honestly feel it would be incredibly stupid of Tecmo Koei and Intelligent Systems to choose to leave out the alt genders of Corrin and Robin when every other, non-amiibo, appearance has had them both appear from the initial games to Smash to Cipher to Heroes. Leaving them out now when it's such an easy thing to do would just seem wrong. Note that I also do not feel they are different enough to warrant their own slots. Any differences to how they would fight is subjective purely off their personalities (what little differences their are) when in-game their abilities have always been the same.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Deva Ashera

[Arthur97]

On 6/24/2017 at 2:59 PM, Motendra said:

Ayo, where's mah Grima option? I refuse to vote til then

I think Grima could be in, but I doubt Grima will be all we get. If you feel that strongly about it...I guess I could add it.

[Augestein]

I'd expect both to be honest, but if they only select one, I'd expect Female since the male got an amiibo and female didn't. 

[Mox]

Male Robin seems to be the more canon option to me so I feel that he's more likely to get in than female Robin.  I think this is especially true as female Corrin got picked, it would make sense to put male Robin in to balance this.

[Deva Ashera]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:58 PM, Mox said:

Male Robin seems to be the more canon option to me so I feel that he's more likely to get in than female Robin.  I think this is especially true as female Corrin got picked, it would make sense to put male Robin in to balance this.

To be fair, male Corrin seemed to be the more 'canon' one too, based on Fates' cutscenes using male as the default model (most clear in the transformation scene) just like Awakening did with Robin.

I was actually looking through my Art of Fire Emblem Awakening book and noticed male avatar was ranked 5th best male while female avatar was ranked 3rd best female by (Japanese) fans.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Deva Ashera

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Deva Ashera said:

To be fair, male Corrin seemed to be the more 'canon' one too, based on Fates' cutscenes using male as the default model (most clear in the transformation scene) just like Awakening did with Robin.

I was actually looking through my Art of Fire Emblem Awakening book and noticed male avatar was ranked 5th best male while female avatar was ranked 3rd best female by (Japanese) fans.

Yeah, but that was way back. Things are different now.

Also, we do not know the total amount of votes that went into that poll.

[Arthur97]

11 minutes ago, Folt said:

Yeah, but that was way back. Things are different now.

Also, we do not know the total amount of votes that went into that poll.

Japanese exclusive polls bug me. It is the epitome of neglecting a large portion of your fans. Plus, those polls seem pretty limited participation wise even for such a limited audience.

In any case, Smash I think really put Male Robin over the top. Their trailer featured him almost exclusively (I really like that trailer) and the Amiibo allowed him to spread into other games. 

[Folt]

16 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Japanese exclusive polls bug me. It is the epitome of neglecting a large portion of your fans. Plus, those polls seem pretty limited participation wise even for such a limited audience.

In any case, Smash I think really put Male Robin over the top. Their trailer featured him almost exclusively (I really like that trailer) and the Amiibo allowed him to spread into other games. 

It also probably doesn't help that Female Robin essentially had to be resized to fit Male Robin's proportions. Comparatively, since the default Male Corrin is the younger-looking model while the default Female Corrin is the older-looking one, their proportions are about the same.

[Arthur97]

4 minutes ago, Folt said:

It also probably doesn't help that Female Robin essentially had to be resized to fit Male Robin's proportions. Comparatively, since the default Male Corrin is the younger-looking model while the default Female Corrin is the older-looking one, their proportions are about the same.

I did notice that the Robins had different heights with Male Robin being about a head taller in their default states. 

[Mox]

5 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

To be fair, male Corrin seemed to be the more 'canon' one too, based on Fates' cutscenes using male as the default model (most clear in the transformation scene) just like Awakening did with Robin.

I was actually looking through my Art of Fire Emblem Awakening book and noticed male avatar was ranked 5th best male while female avatar was ranked 3rd best female by (Japanese) fans.

Yes, I suppose you're right about the cutscenes, I didn't think about that.  I suppose I was coming from an angle where, since the game was released, female corrin seems to have been receiving more publicity (if that makes sense)?  

Oh yeah!  I never noticed that haha, just checked mine.  Very interesting. :) Well that certainly has me in a stump haha.  Guess I go back to square one sort of . ^^' 

[Rodriguezjr]

Looks like Male Robin will be in. As well as Lissa and another "Marth".

Edited June 28, 2017 by Rodriguezjr

[Anomalocaris]

7 minutes ago, Rodriguezjr said:

Looks like Male Robin will be in. As well as Lissa and another "Marth".

Huh, neat. Looks like I got what I wanted, at least.

Kinda curious about there being two Marths. I'm going to assume that's just sprite repetition and not an indicator of there being two Marths in the game. Or maybe he gets an outfit change that alters his sprite.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Anomalocaris

[Folt]

2 hours ago, Rodriguezjr said:

Looks like Male Robin will be in. As well as Lissa and another "Marth".

Male Robin and Female Corrin like most of us guessed (and wanted) all but confirmed now.

2 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Huh, neat. Looks like I got what I wanted, at least.

Kinda curious about there being two Marths. I'm going to assume that's just sprite repetition and not an indicator of there being two Marths in the game. Or maybe he gets an outfit change that alters his sprite.

In case of this not being sarcasm...

Spoiler

... Lucina is all but confirmed as well.

 

[Arthur97]

4 hours ago, Folt said:

Male Robin and Female Corrin like most of us guessed (and wanted) all but confirmed now.

In case of this not being sarcasm...

  Reveal hidden contents

... Lucina is all but confirmed as well.

 

Yeah, Marth's sprite is just "Marth's" from Awakening so with such low resolution, they would look nigh identical. That or it is just a repeating pattern.

[HK Motendra]

On 6/25/2017 at 7:45 PM, Arthur97 said:

I think Grima could be in, but I doubt Grima will be all we get. If you feel that strongly about it...I guess I could add it.

Forgot to hit submit but YES PLZ. 

'Course, I don't just simply mean Dragon Grima as a "Hydra" equivalent. Possessed Grima!Robin is best Robin.

[Arthur97]

25 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Forgot to hit submit but YES PLZ. 

'Course, I don't just simply mean Dragon Grima as a "Hydra" equivalent. Possessed Grima!Robin is best Robin.

Well, at this point I think the poll might as well be closed, but I can add a third question.

Edit: Added two more questions, but at this point I might be edging into new thread territory. I just closed the poll and made a new thread for Grima.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Arthur97

[HK Motendra]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, at this point I think the poll might as well be closed, but I can add a third question.

In terms of which gender, sure. Now the question is whether he'll be good or evil which is mostly wishful thinking on my part, tbh

[Anomalocaris]

8 hours ago, Folt said:

Male Robin and Female Corrin like most of us guessed (and wanted) all but confirmed now.

In case of this not being sarcasm...

  Hide contents

... Lucina is all but confirmed as well.

 

Ah, I didn't realize it was Lucina's sprite. The way people were talking about it I thought it was literally a second Marth sprite.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Anomalocaris

[Deva Ashera]

I figured male Robin would be there to work with female Corrin. Now to see if alt gender costumes will be implemented by default or DLC..I still feel it will happen regardless, either from devs themselves or fan demand. If not, no big deal..I got my fCorrin.

Glad to see Lucina, was kind of expecting to, wasn't expecting Lissa though.

I wonder if the devs are counting Fates as one or two/three games..I mean in regards to roster consideration since the rosters for Birthright and Conquest each kind of matched Shadow Dragon and Awakening..if I recall correctly.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Deva Ashera