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Policy Issues  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Mila's Turnwheel be allowed?

    • Yes, you can't use it to rig better levelups anyway. Make full use of it.
    • Yes, but edit out the failed turns from the video to keep it watchable.
    • No, it's cheap.
  2. 2. How should I handle coins and forging?

    • Farm all the silver marks you wish and forge towards best equips early; no limits.
    • Don't pick up any silver marks or food from dungeons; limit yourself to money acquired from fixed events only.
    • Other (state your idea)
  3. 3. How should non-mandatory encounters on the map be treated?

    • Face the ones you can't avoid and count the turns toward the total TC.
    • Face the unavoidable ones and don't count the turn count.
    • Fight them repeatedly to gain the necessary advantage in storyline maps.
    • Other (?)
      0


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Been playing Act 2 and am currently testing if the str/spd wells can be skipped entirely until the end of the act without turn count being penalised in any way. Now it's clear that without Villager forks Mae is an earlygame nuke and not much else. She helps with the Act 2 routs, after which some combination of Saber, Kamui, Leon, Palla and Catria handle the fighting for Celica's army due to their movement and/or range. Does Mae need the wells to meet some benchmarks later on in the act? You mention rigging mag is easier than rigging spd, but if we can arrange that both stats are sufficiently rigged, wells can be saved for later... such as to make Saber or Leon a better fighter. If my Mae doesn't go Pegasus Knight, the high expectation for AS are diminished, possibly she only needs to double Brigands with Fire?

Not sure what sort of benchmarks I would need for the LTC clear of the final Act 2 map, both on Saber and Celica. Having a promoted Saber shaves off a turn, but requires a loss of 3 turns in Seabound Shrine. I'd like to see if I can ignore it entirely, Brave Sword assisting me with monsterslaying later on over the Blessed Sword. Maybe the well levels can be accumulated later on when we are able to 1-turn the dracozombies in a later chapter?

Your Peg!Mae has ludicrous stats and I wonder if anyone in my challenge can get such statistics feasibly at all. I imagine the issue of killing Duma is mostly out of the way with such high strength? 

Does the instapromoted Falcoknight have much of a contribution in your run? If she's merely auxiliary, I should probably abstain from feeding any exp to Clair for the rest of the playthrough. No way can she become viable when playing this fast. 

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lmao what even is the secret to 3-turning the 2nd boat map, the one with the Leather Shield merc? The enemies take too long to get to the party, and there are too many of them for Mae to tank. 

I'm guessing I want to enter this map with a rigged defence on Mae (+2 will probably do), then counterkill nearly every Brigand with the Merc's Leather Shield. 

Celica and Saber barely have any time at all to level up in these early chapters... 

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Here's what the struggle with the RNG I mentioned earlier looks like. Re-arranging actions seems to be most effective, but I still wonder if path tracing/simply turnwheeling back does change the state of the RNG somehow.

Just 3-turned Pirate Fort, and I've been wondering if I can 3-turn the 3rd boat / the Cantor map. 

4 turns is clearly trivial, with enough time to have all your units travel to the boss and attack him, but 3 turns is more ambitious and the only outcome we should aim for here imho. I have Mae who learnt Swap in 1-3 (+2 def on Mae does indeed permit us to 3-turn the map which I couldn't achieve otherwise) able to give somebody an extra tile of movement, but for a unit to be ready to attack the boss at pointblank range, they would need two Swaps. If I redid Pirate Fort, I could probably get either Boey or Genny to also have Swap learnt before the map.

But the problem is, how do you even kill the Cantor boss in one round (Leon can probably chip in for... 5 extra damage? meh). 36 hp/8 def/9 res is crazy bulk for a boss standing on 40 avoid terrain. Steel Sword!Kamui (my Saber hasn't proc'd any strength...) deals 6x2 damage, 24/36 with 1 hit+1 crit. 5x2 or 20/36 for Saber (who has better hit rates). How does Cantor behave when he's weakened on enemy phase, will he aggro a character? Playing the chapter now, apparently not. I guess 4-turn it is then. 

As for my stats... Mae outstats everybody, including in durability. Celica proc'd 2 mag and 1 spd on her two levels, Saber - 2 spd, making him weaker than base Kamui with no str procs. I imagine str/mag is the one stat Celica cares about since she will be countering the magic users on the final Act 2 map, but I don't know if there's a benchmark I'm supposed to meet. 

Edited by Espinosa
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Just went through the whole of Act 2 and routed it. Major discoveries, conclusions and thoughts:

1. 2-F aka 2-8 doesn't need a promoted Saber for a chance at a 3-turn. Celica is well-equipped to do the bosskilling herself while the men handle the arcanists remaining in the south. She might need high stats for this nevertheless OR critting an arcanist with Fire (tolerable odds). 

2. This would mean visiting Seabound Shrine and wasting 3 turns there just to get combat exp, wells and the Blessed Sword is really not worth it. It could well be worth it once the party is capable of 1-turning dracozombies in a later Act and make use of the bonuses found therein somewhere down the line. 

3. While having high stats, most notably in my case strength, on Saber is helpful in many situations (and I may replay all maps with Saber levelling up in them just to pile on more earlygame strength on him), it appears that both of the last boat maps are 3-turnable without meeting any particularly harsh stat benchmarks or observing very specific combat results on either PP or EP (didn't need crits to succeed very early). However, I do question the possibility of 2-turning one or both of these maps. Extensive testing and thinking will have to go into determining this however. Maybe some drafters have experience 2-turning these maps under certain conditions?

4. The experience gained in the last boat maps is p huge, and with some effort I presume Saber could even be promoted before 2-F (unnecessary, but helpful for a sooner Dread Fighter promotion). Leon could get to the same point with a lot of feeding of specific enemies and bosses. Sniper!Leon with good levels and possibly some str/spd wells (he can get +4 str/+1 spd, +4 spd/+1 str or some combination of the two, though part of it is contested by Alm's route units as well) may be a helpful secondary unit to Saber and the peg-girls later in Act 3. No idea when Kamui can be fed the exp he wants though. 

5. If we want to forge a lot of stuff in Act 3, Celica's army must visit the Mountain Village. If I remember the skirmish behaviour correctly, this means entering an unwanted encounter twice (you have to fight it once anyway), I do mean the one just east to the village. So there's a turn count sacrifice for getting forges earliest in Celica's party. If we're talking about fully forged Braves and Killers (not looking forward to the coin farming required for that lbh), it could be worthwhile; otherwise... 

I presume the LTC way of doing Act 3/Celica is travelling east first and only then north? The closing maps when going in either direction are about equally intimidating in my eyes. I can see why Art Dealer did the merc map, but I feel like I might have to go with witches since they're easier to ORKO. Witches can't be killed easily on EP though, so if Saber can double the mercs, I imagine that's the way to go? 

6. Can Celica forge a Rapier @ Mountain Village in Act 3, pass it to Alm and let Alm/Gray use it for their pre-Forest Villager maps, or must Alm enter the Forest Village himself first to receive it? The early Alm Act 3 experience is full of armours and cavs, and nobody is proficient enough to use the Horseslayer well - Clive is too slow and Clair's raw stats are awful. Mathilda joins a bit late but will likely be a key player later on. 

Edited by Espinosa
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So I've been testing some stuff and... apparently I can't enter Priory at the end of Act 2 because the zombie encounter at the cemetery has respawned? I could've sworn it should disappear after you've done the masked cavalier event? My memory must be faulty then.

If there isn't some way of making it go away at that point of the game, my effort to keep the Priory +str/spd wells for Saber and/or Leon was all in vain. There's no reason not to distribute those stats between Celica and Mae. 

It does seem however that the zombie skirmish disappears in Act 3.... If I do decide to use a disposable character to avoid encounters for the entirety of the game (in my book, it raises some questions about the replicability of the run, so I'm pretty far from having made a positive judgment on that one), I can indeed get some well boosts unto a mobile physical unit. Paola and Catria have as much claim as Saber and Leon. Fuck that's a lot of decisions to make. 

Also confirming the Mercboat (penultimate boat chapter with 4 mercs, incl. boss, and 2 archers) can be 2-turned. It can be done fairly reliably by either by a 15 spd Mae (possible if we sacrifice the Priory well to her) or, a much better option for longterm, 14 str Saber. Saber doesn't have all that much time to get 5 levelups (let alone 5 STRENGTH levelups), but there's a Fruit of Life that could give him to level  in addition to being fed the Cantor from the 3rd boat map (it turned out that 4-turning that map is not an easy task at all, after all the considerations about trying to 3-turn it... some really inaccurate attacks need to connect). Saber's 30% strength growth doesn't help us at all here. 

Still need to see if the last boat map with the Arcanists can be 2-turned somehow. Mae does handle the left side of the map fairly well, whether she's been invested into or not. 

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If you merchant an item it goes straight to convoy. This may screw you out of gradivus/mage ring/forged killer bow use depending on your merchant use and stance on silver farm though.

Witch map can be faster depending on warp AI if you just deploy 1-2 range units (pegs do work esp with a mailed over gradivus though forged javalin works well enough) and it gives more exp/better distribution. The boss is really obnoxiously bulky though.
 

Wells on Celica makes killing act 4 Jedah much less stressful.

Edited by joshcja
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Done with recording Act 2 except for the final map where I intend to rig a +str/spd levelup for Saber which is taking even longer than usual. Started uploading the recordings on YouTube.

How exactly can I be screwed out of something by using the merchant? Haven't used this feature much at all, so I guess I don't understand something unstated in your post. Early Rapier for Grey sounds desirable, since nobody other than him can fight in Alm's party anyway. Can't give Kliff an earlier Killer Bow since that would give up Leon's own. I imagine he needs it more + is more capable of using it as a sniper. 

I think crits being required on bosses is going to be a recurring trend in this run. Since I plan to have 16 spd on Saber entering Act 3, I guess doing the merc map and recruiting Sonya is going to be the way to go, as doubling mooks on EP will be possible. Deen seems like the better character of the two, though I haven't given their LTC applicability that much thought to be frank. 

I guess you mean Celica should ORKO Jedah with an Excalibur crit or two? Getting her the experience necessary seems troublesome, and I imagine Saber or Leon could try to do the same with a brave attack or Killer Bow's special, and they'd have way more levels naturally gained from combat obligations by that point. 

Didn't Art Dealer mention needing a good Genny for the lategame maps? Probably at lv. 12 for Expel and with high strength for range? My Genny's been pretty good so far. 

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Excal straight up cannot punch through dracoshield Jedah. Double crit ragnarock works though because stupid high might. It takes rediculous str to killer bow him down and tigerstance builds way too slowly imo.

Edited by joshcja
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On 9/14/2017 at 10:42 AM, joshcja said:

Excal straight up cannot punch through dracoshield Jedah. Double crit ragnarock works though because stupid high might. It takes rediculous str to killer bow him down and tigerstance builds way too slowly imo.

Now we're talking about Celica levelling up 19 times until then. With 4 mov and playing through chapters with LTC strats, I don't think it can be done at all. Certainly, it's impossible to train up both Ragnarok!Celica and Rescue!Atlas.

But what did you mean could go wrong when sending items between armies? Simply making the wrong choices and using up the merchants in vain? 

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16 minutes ago, Espinosa said:

Now we're talking about Celica levelling up 19 times until then. With 4 mov and playing through chapters with LTC strats, I don't think it can be done at all. Certainly, it's impossible to train up both Ragnarok!Celica and Rescue!Atlas.

But what did you mean could go wrong when sending items between armies? Simply making the wrong choices and using up the merchants in vain? 

Yeah the exp needed is pretty silly, sadly she's the cheapest option if you're not willing to settle for a 6 turn clear. Jedah is inapropriately fat.

Limited merchants on alms side and if you eskew silver grind very limited money for Celica pre-tower. Also merchant use determines route order in act 4 because mage ring. Its no big deal if you keep a pre-use save though.

Edited by joshcja
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Don't you think it will be easier to learn Tigerstance with Saber than to have Celica get to lv. 20? He only needs the sum of his strength and skill to be 29 to OHKO with a Tigerstance crit. Mine already has 26 as a lv. 2 Myrmidon upon the end of Act 2. He's guaranteed to have the stats for it. Alternatively, Leon could do it if he has 28 str. I don't think he will - right now he has 12 str and 7 spd as a lv. 1 Sniper... 

He needs 25 rounds of combat (apparently) to get there, but surely Saber fights enough to get there? He mustn't be using Brave Sword for crit strats however. I also fear Saber may take a more secondary role with Leon, Palla and Catria outmoving, outranging and outflying him, but he has superior combat prowess. 

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Jedah has 16 raw def and 13 from Draco. Will Roundhouse add 8 or 14/15 damage to the attack? If it's the latter, no additional strength benchmarks need reaching on Saber. 

Apparently, killing him will make the Mogalls go away but keep the armoured terrors? Those are really bulky and spread around in hard-to-reach places on the swamp. I wonder if they can be Expelled by Genny? Also, since SF doesn't even have a Calculations page (we're becoming more casual aren't we) do we even know how to improve Expel's success rate? Is it skill? Genny's skill is pretty bad. 

The swamps are so prominent that I imagine I will want to train Est in addition to her proficient sisters. 

One thing I haven't tried planning yet is the sidequests you can do. If circumstances allow travel around the map without turn count penalties, there are more things that can be done. I'll need to pay close attention to what can be acquired, most notably stat boosters and gold coins.

I also think I may have come up with a rule for coin farming that neither limits my equipment hopelessly (there is literally NO money for anything for a long while if dungeon farming is banned) nor forces me to coin thousands of silvers for conversion - coin farming is allowed but no converting silver to gold until that one lategame Celica dungeon where hitting a single object is a cornucopia of money with dozens of silvers farmable within seconds. I don't remember if Alm's route has an equivalent. This doesn't turn the run into a boring 50-hour long coin farm fest and still lets me do things like get Killer Bows and better swords early. It also makes the gold coins acquired in single storyline events that much more significant, as they should be imho. 

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HiKnights and Mogalls can't be expelled, and Expel itself has a flat hitrate like all other magic. 65% I believe.

Enemies don't spawn at the end of an Act when the final chapter is cleared, or at the beginning of an Act before starting the first chapter/storyline sequence. Random encounters also get cleared (I think) when you start a new Act. Those would probably your best opportunities to backtrack for sidequests without risking more battles. 

You might even be able to use that to do something with the Wells at the Priory, since I think the Graveyard encounter despawns as well. You'd have to wait until Act 4 though, and it seems like you already found use for those as is. 

Also, this is a bit anecdotal, but on my first playthrough (no grind, trying to be relatively efficient) I did train Est and honestly, I just wish I would have had two great Falcoknights instead of a good Palla, and an average Catria/Est. Est isn't worthless by any means, she definitely has use no matter what you do with her, it's just with the pace you're keeping so far I'd be a little skeptical as to whether or not there's time to fully realize her. There are a few EXP wells, sure, but Catria may want those herself to ensure that she can double lategame Dreadfighters and Mogalls. Not to mention, if you're going for Rescue!Atlas, he'd probably have those all locked up as is.

Edited by Deltre
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I'm going to try Expelling every monster possible and see who exactly it can and cannot work on. Seems like a big deal for LTC. 

It appears that in Act 3, Celica can cancel out of her first battle (where you help the peg sisters) and end up to the south of that point of the map, allowing her to get to Priory before any skirmishes can happen in the act, potentially to get Saber or Leon str and/or spd boosts. 

A much more important discovery has been made and sent to me by a YouTube user matasj98. It involves entering dungeons to manipulate the appearance of skirmishes on the map, potentially eliminating them entirely for at least the whole duration of Act 3. This is how it works:

Spoiler

 

I did some testing and believe I've found a way to completely avoid random skirmishes.
At first I tried moving Celica's and Alm's parties at different times. However enemies spawn after you move (or wait) a certain amount of times, regardless of which character is moving. I also tried other things until I finally found a strategy that seems to work. 
1. At the very beginning of Act 3 move Alm over to the Deliverance Hideout. No enemies will spawn on Alm's route until you battle Zakson.
2. Start playing Celica's part of the chapter as usual. Save the game every time before you move anywhere on the map. If no enemies spawn, save again and keep on moving.
3. If an enemy battle spawns after you move, reset the game. After resetting the game, enter the Deliverance Hideout with Alm and immediately exit it. This should reset the amount of moves you can take before an enemy spawns. Do not save neither while entering nor exiting the dungeon.
4. Try moving with Celica. No enemy skirmish should spawn the next time you move. Save again and repeat the whole process.
5. Entering and exiting a dungeon does not always reset enemy spawning. In that case try resetting the game and entering and exiting the dungeon more than once.
6. Enemies may spawn while you are exiting a town, the priory or any other similar location. This also includes dungeons, so that is why it is important not to save while entering or exiting the Deliverance Hideout. In such a case reset the game, enter the dungeon, go to the Mila shrine and try going back and forth between the shrine and the main dungeon. This usually resets the enemy spawning as well and this the reason why I recommend  using the Deliverance Hideout instead of the Thieves Shrine, as there are no enemies in between the entrance of the dungeon and the Mila shrine.
7. After you beat Celica's part of Act 3, use the same strategy on Alm's route by having Celica enter and exit the Dragon shrine.

Using this strategy I was able to make it to the priory on Novis Island and back to mainland Zofia without spawning any enemies. This strategy also seems to work with both enemies spawned by the bosses and graveyard enemies. This means you should be able to use the stat fountains as well as the Mila statue found on the island at any time you like.

Please note that I have only tested very little of this strategy and that there might be other flaws. Nevertheless, I hope this information can be of use.

 

This couldn't have possibly been sent to me at a better time, as I spent too long hesitating to continue the run, not sure of the legitimacy of a run that uses save editing to have disposable units like Boey and Lukas enter skirmishes, absorb the exp, while editing out Alm's / Celica's forced bonus exp with the editor. This way I don't have to consider it at least for Act 3. 

I've been testing it myself and it works just fine in Act 3. With a lot of saving and resetting, I managed to promote Atlas to Mage without a single skirmish appearing on the map. This is sure to help with sidequests as well. 

On the topic of weapons, like choosing between Silver Sword, Zwei and Brave, how viable is Ilwoon? Only one golden coin necessary to have an unforged one, it's got both power AND good crit, and after you learn its skill Death Blow, you can critblick armours. Rapier can deal effective anti-armour damage on EP too, but with poorer might (can also double). There are a lot of good swords to choose from, and the choice is nowhere near straightforward methinks.

It's so much easier with bows (killer bow all the way; dunno if Longbow can contribute to shaving off any turns with its cost of 1 golden coin, but it deserves checking) and lances however. Steel Lance has the best skills without losing much Mt to silver, though there's that thing about getting yourself more Javelins for EP combat against Fire users. Also choosing to get Saunion or not. 

WRT Atlus and Catria competing for wells, idk, it seems like many people could use extra levels. However, it's speed stats that double mercs not levels, so Catria's problem can be solved differently, like through speed wells (the Priory ones remain unused and easily accessible with the discovery I shared), rigging level-ups or things like Pegasus Cheese. Atlus's stats will pretty much suck no matter what but he needs to be fed kills, and wells help out with that. Spoiling my 2-6 clear, there's already ONE Golden Apple that Atlus is not getting for sure. 

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19 hours ago, joshcja said:

Any monster without the "greater terror" skill can be expeled.

Damn, I actually knew that. Thanks for the reminder.

I've got a new video uploaded:

Been routing Act 3 with capped bow knights to make up my mind about the numerous choices to be made and carefully plan the next maps. The method for avoiding skirmishes works well until Celica's done with her maps and Alm faces his first enemy. That's where shit really hits the fan, as Celica needs to enter the Dragon Shrine like 20 times for Alm to just be able to enter the Forest Village without something spawning somewhere. Wasn't such a problem when I did Celica's part of the Act.

The worst starts when we can't guarantee that finishing a chapter won't spawn an enemy immediately afterwards. Imagine getting an unreliable low-turn clear of an Alm map, with the wanted level-ups to boot, and then having to re-do it, possibly numerous times, just because enemies refuse to stop appearing. I just might start using in-battle saves prior to the endgame stage of a map not to lose any particularly successful clears, backing them up. 

At the same time, I wonder if I can afford to let some of the skirmish foes to appear in a specific storyline map. For example, a few Paladins appearing in Gray's way could be used to give him additional kill exp (if he's packing a three-starred Brave Sword) while not taking an extra turn. This probably doesn't invalidate the reliability of the run any more, since you could carefully align some enemies to appear where you want them to on repeated attempts. 

Also, does anyone know for sure if foes are able to hit themselves with the Shadow Sword in this game? I restarted Blake's maps like 20 times, using the Turnwheel a few times in some, but never saw him hurt himself instead of Palla even once. I'm assuming it won't work. 

Shadow Sword seems like a good weapon to send to Alm's party prior to them being able to forge stuff for themselves, since Gray is lacking in durability and the blade actually drains HP on enemy phase too, helping him stay alive. 

On the other hand, I've grown a bit more skeptical wrt using Rapier. It's not until you use 2 golden coins on it that its Mt gets high enough to really kill things, and with no gold invested its effective Mt is just 12 against cavs and armours, which is weaker than Shadow Sword and other weapons who also have the advantage of much higher crit and better damage against non-cav/knight enemies (Brave Sword+3 has 9 Mt, which isn't much worse when neither is 2HKOing). I imagine Gray will want to get Silver Sword's Roundhouse too, as Alm's route isn't lacking in bulky bosses even if they're nothing like Jedah. 

Alm gets more gold than Celica in Act 3, and can potentially put the 3 coins from selling Exotic Spice to use right away on effective weaponry and bolstering Kliff's combat. As for uses of gold in Celica's route, Killer Bow, Saunion and Blessed Lances all sound like worthwhile investments. 

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Been thinking a lot about this lately... Is Rescue!Atlas really worth going for?

If I can 1-turn Seabound Shrine in Act 3, I can sacrifice 1 turn to possibly get more back. There are two more wells at the end of Act 3, which makes it 4 level-ups Atlas can get from us without fighting. If I'd saved up the 1st Golden Apple, he could've got five. But that's still 11 unpromoted level-ups + 3 promoted levels. We still need to get him 10 levels somehow. 

If Celica and Mae can't be levelled well when LTCing with mobile units, then what does that make Atlas? I can't imagine him powerlevelling unless this were a draft run with dungeon encounters. 

And after all that, which turns is Rescue saving in Act 4 once it's learnt? Is it saving any at all? 

I figure I might just make him a cav or archer instead. 

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Lots of questions haha.

Emma is mostly helpful for reliability, but not strictly necessary for anything off the top of my head. Pretty helpful for baiting/countering mages, but you'll have Matilda soon. I still recommend sending a javelin to Alm's side if you haven't started his chapter 3 maps yet.

I did go for Emma and Randel because I realized Alm's party is pretty bad early chapter 3 (mainly due to lack of good swords before forging). The extra map helped get everyone promoted and Python caught up a bit too.

On 9/20/2017 at 1:51 PM, Espinosa said:

Been thinking a lot about this lately... Is Rescue!Atlas really worth going for?

If I can 1-turn Seabound Shrine in Act 3, I can sacrifice 1 turn to possibly get more back. There are two more wells at the end of Act 3, which makes it 4 level-ups Atlas can get from us without fighting. If I'd saved up the 1st Golden Apple, he could've got five. But that's still 11 unpromoted level-ups + 3 promoted levels. We still need to get him 10 levels somehow. 

If Celica and Mae can't be levelled well when LTCing with mobile units, then what does that make Atlas? I can't imagine him powerlevelling unless this were a draft run with dungeon encounters. 

And after all that, which turns is Rescue saving in Act 4 once it's learnt? Is it saving any at all? 

I figure I might just make him a cav or archer instead. 

You would be able to 3 turn the third boat map (cantor map) with a heavily rigged Mae getting a double thunder crit. Although I think I had the benchmark for it, i didn't even try since that was just too unlikely to happen.

 

On 9/12/2017 at 10:37 AM, Espinosa said:

3. While having high stats, most notably in my case strength, on Saber is helpful in many situations (and I may replay all maps with Saber levelling up in them just to pile on more earlygame strength on him), it appears that both of the last boat maps are 3-turnable without meeting any particularly harsh stat benchmarks or observing very specific combat results on either PP or EP (didn't need crits to succeed very early). However, I do question the possibility of 2-turning one or both of these maps. Extensive testing and thinking will have to go into determining this however. Maybe some drafters have experience 2-turning these maps under certain conditions?

5. If we want to forge a lot of stuff in Act 3, Celica's army must visit the Mountain Village. If I remember the skirmish behaviour correctly, this means entering an unwanted encounter twice (you have to fight it once anyway), I do mean the one just east to the village. So there's a turn count sacrifice for getting forges earliest in Celica's party. If we're talking about fully forged Braves and Killers (not looking forward to the coin farming required for that lbh), it could be worthwhile; otherwise... 

I presume the LTC way of doing Act 3/Celica is travelling east first and only then north? The closing maps when going in either direction are about equally intimidating in my eyes. I can see why Art Dealer did the merc map, but I feel like I might have to go with witches since they're easier to ORKO. Witches can't be killed easily on EP though, so if Saber can double the mercs, I imagine that's the way to go? 

6. Can Celica forge a Rapier @ Mountain Village in Act 3, pass it to Alm and let Alm/Gray use it for their pre-Forest Villager maps, or must Alm enter the Forest Village himself first to receive it? The early Alm Act 3 experience is full of armours and cavs, and nobody is proficient enough to use the Horseslayer well - Clive is too slow and Clair's raw stats are awful. Mathilda joins a bit late but will likely be a key player later on. 

I never thought to rig 15 strength/Skill onto saber. I did villager Mae for that map who did have those benchmarks. The blessed sword's added crit would have added reliability, but it seems like you got through it regardless. I didn't try for 2 turns, but I kind of wish I did now.

It's actually possible to only do one skirmish, enter the village, do forges, and then leave and head

east; if you head north, Palla, Catria and Atlas will leave. Once again, I'd recommend sending over a javelin. The reason I went with Emma and Randal to Alm's side was because he doesn't really have any strong characters to hard carry his maps until Matilda joins (who doesn't have great durability). 

On 9/15/2017 at 3:10 PM, General Horace said:

Roundhouse (silver sword skill) is a much better proc for killing Jedah (and Rudolf) than Tigerstance.  It's easier to get (and easier to rig), but the silver sword is a slightly worse weapon overall than the Zwei is.

I highly recommend you go this route as well for Jedah and Rudolf as well (Matilda will not hit the benchmark's you need). You should also have a forged brave sword for enemy phase use in certain maps. You can grind for silver very easily on Celica's route.

On 9/13/2017 at 3:27 PM, Espinosa said:

I think crits being required on bosses is going to be a recurring trend in this run. Since I plan to have 16 spd on Saber entering Act 3, I guess doing the merc map and recruiting Sonya is going to be the way to go, as doubling mooks on EP will be possible. Deen seems like the better character of the two, though I haven't given their LTC applicability that much thought to be frank. 

I guess you mean Celica should ORKO Jedah with an Excalibur crit or two? Getting her the experience necessary seems troublesome, and I imagine Saber or Leon could try to do the same with a brave attack or Killer Bow's special, and they'd have way more levels naturally gained from combat obligations by that point. 

Didn't Art Dealer mention needing a good Genny for the lategame maps? Probably at lv. 12 for Expel and with high strength for range? My Genny's been pretty good so far. 

Frankly, Sonia is probably not much worse. Pretty much anyone without mage ring/archer, dreadfighter or pegasus status stopped being used except for shove/swap during chapter 4. Deen is not worth the investment if you already have Saber/Kamui along with the pegasus sisters. 

Genny with expel would have potentially saved a turn on Jedah's swamp because I needed someone besides Celica with sepharim. Expel would have helped a lot with some of the forced skirmishes in Duma's tower.

For exp wells/golden apples I recommend you allocate them so that at the very least Saber, Catria, Palla and Genny are able to promote by the end of chapter 3 (although if you can get Leon to Bow knight instead of one of the pegasus sisters, I'd prioritize him instead).

On 9/20/2017 at 1:51 PM, Espinosa said:

Been thinking a lot about this lately... Is Rescue!Atlas really worth going for?

If I can 1-turn Seabound Shrine in Act 3, I can sacrifice 1 turn to possibly get more back. There are two more wells at the end of Act 3, which makes it 4 level-ups Atlas can get from us without fighting. If I'd saved up the 1st Golden Apple, he could've got five. But that's still 11 unpromoted level-ups + 3 promoted levels. We still need to get him 10 levels somehow. 

If Celica and Mae can't be levelled well when LTCing with mobile units, then what does that make Atlas? I can't imagine him powerlevelling unless this were a draft run with dungeon encounters. 

And after all that, which turns is Rescue saving in Act 4 once it's learnt? Is it saving any at all? 

I figure I might just make him a cav or archer instead. 

No, there's not enough Exp for Rescue!Atlas. I'd Just make him an Archer, as a cavalier he's pretty much just Est, but worse. If you can, I would just send a golden apple to Alm's side from one of the chapter 4 merchants. It's actually really difficult to get Tatiana to warp.

 

On 9/17/2017 at 9:16 AM, Espinosa said:

Shadow Sword seems like a good weapon to send to Alm's party prior to them being able to forge stuff for themselves, since Gray is lacking in durability and the blade actually drains HP on enemy phase too, helping him stay alive. 

On the other hand, I've grown a bit more skeptical wrt using Rapier. It's not until you use 2 golden coins on it that its Mt gets high enough to really kill things, and with no gold invested its effective Mt is just 12 against cavs and armours, which is weaker than Shadow Sword and other weapons who also have the advantage of much higher crit and better damage against non-cav/knight enemies (Brave Sword+3 has 9 Mt, which isn't much worse when neither is 2HKOing). I imagine Gray will want to get Silver Sword's Roundhouse too, as Alm's route isn't lacking in bulky bosses even if they're nothing like Jedah. 

Alm gets more gold than Celica in Act 3, and can potentially put the 3 coins from selling Exotic Spice to use right away on effective weaponry and bolstering Kliff's combat. As for uses of gold in Celica's route, Killer Bow, Saunion and Blessed Lances all sound like worthwhile investments. 

Honestly thundersword is enough to carry you until you can forge at the forest village. Rapier might be somewhat useful more useful in chapter 4-Alm's side, although it' really doesn't shine unless fully forged. 

Edited by Art_Dealer
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