The worst villain

[Punished Dayni]

I should put a spoiler on this (big enough for spoiling Geneology, Awakening and Fates). If I am wrong on something, let me know, I'm kind of rushing this down.

Also, there's a long ranty spiel about Fates. Fair warning.

Spoiler

In terms of what they do, Manfroy as head of the Loptyr cult manages to connive in such a way to screw up several nations which helps bring them under 1 future empire, gets the last of the Loptyr bloodline to be together allowing them to ressurect Loptyr, then proceeds to rebuild the Loptyrian empire by manipulating the current empire and getting it set so that when he finally dies that the empire will live on as he wishes, child hunts and all. If he hadn't gotten too cocky and maniacal he likely would have gotten away with it too. While there are villains that are more sympathetic, villains that are more impressive and villains that have that truely great moment, Manfroy overall is the villain that sets his world up for the worst before he gets Tyrfing'd.

In terms of just being bad as villains, Validar is likely the worst (Less of a worthwhile motivation than Lyon (I think Nergal (During BS anyway) might have a case for being lesser than Validar, but not by much), a lesser copy of Manfroy's plan (which has been going on for some time mind longer than him), a design as obviously evil and exaggerated as Gharnef (as well as being one of the most "A wizard did it. Evilly" since him too!) and a person who's position needs to be explained better (HOW did he end up king? How can the shield not be needed by the Hierophant in the end? How did they have the money to just hand a British of navies willy nilly?)), but let me make the case for Ananankos. 

Anankos the villain (aka DAnankos) has a motivation that essentially boils down to "Crazed, less interesting Medeus". He gets mad at the people he'd helped because he drank from the "Dragons go crazy" pool the series needs to pull away from imo. He then proceeds to go mad, demolish Valla and kill everything, while also turning everything into spirits that are invisible. The thing is, we have no reason to feel for either DAnankos (because what little character we have for DAnankos is not interesting whatsoever) or Valla (Because Fates didn't bother). And then there's Anankos's plans, both with Valla and affecting the rest of Nohrhido. The motivation is that humans suck because he got burnt once because he slipped and burned a forest, also nothing new for the series. And how will DAnankos take over? Through forcing Nohrhido to destroy itself. Hoshido is apparently a no-sell, as it was protected by Mikoto's magic.... Somehow (again, Fates to blame more than DAnankos). So he goes for the other ruler Garon, gives Garon his power so that Garon will be evil and possesed, choose terrible enforcers and try to attack Hoshido by using Faceless and his kingdom. So first Garon kills Sumeragi, who then becomes a warrior for DAnankos, and who proceeds to get into Hoshido years later (somehow), to take a sword brought in by Corrin, who Garon had kidnapped, raised and then let get captured (after attempting to get Corrin/Gunther (we'll come back to this later) shoved into Valla) with that sword. So DAnankos allows Garon to plan how to kill Mikoto, and Garon decided to essentially faff about on it, getting lucky when DAnankos says screw it and throws a man at the problem after Corrin was returned to his mother. Frankly, DAnankos being so willing to roll with his dumb self just says a lot. And then Corrin becomes the biggest threat with the Yato and makes their route choice.

In Birthright, DAnankos sends a force once I think, might have possessed Takumi (Though Iago claims credit, we really don't know with this power, do we?), Valla shuts off after Chapter 15, and with Garon's death he's stuck with a dying Gunter and no way of affecting Nohrhido. So that's a bust.

In Conquest, we learn that Garon apparently worships your Eyeballness, that DAnankos loses Gunther as an option when Corrin shows up (Again, will get back to this), and that Takumi apparently got possessed too, screeching about betrayal and all. Nothing much else. Might be a bust, but if he possessed Gunther it might still work in his favour. Not like Fate's writing would allow that, but Gunther killing everything might be the best thing to happen after Conquest. So did more there, but you'd also expect Valla to be sealed off here too (can anyone confirm a cutscene in Hoshido where they say it's nighttime, or a scene in Nohr where they say it's daytime?).

AND THEN THERE'S REVELATIONS. So, there's a couple of things. There's the plan of having another host. Apparently, Garon decided Gunther was the choice. DESPITE GOING ON ABOUT SACRIFICING CORRIN IN CONQUEST AND NOT GIVING A RAT'S ASS BEFORE THEN, WHILE GARON IS ALSO DANANKOS AND JUST..... HOW DOES THAT NOT COME TO EITHER ONE'S MIND? CORRIN MAKES MORE SENSE AS A HOST AND REALLY, WHY WOULD POSSESSED GARON CARE ABOUT WHAT HIS "KIDS" THINK ABOUT THAT PLAN? Garon being petty about Gunther makes sense, However, DAnankos possessed Garon. As ineffectual as we apparently see possession being, Garon is under control for a long time, and DAnankos is talking to Garon too. Actually, I've just realised something relevant to the first part of the game, relating to Mikoto's death.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEY'VE SOMEHOW IGNORED THEIR BEST TOOL (CORRIN) UNTIL DANANKOS GOT BORED FEEDING THE LITTLE SNOT. After Corrin pisses them off by not killing prisoners, Garon then decides on the big "plan". In a series of happy accidents, Corrin doesn't end up in the Bottomless Canyon, gets brought to Hoshido and is not executed along the way and only then does DAnankos send someone in to turn the Ganglari's bomb mode on, a plan that in and of itself doesn't require Corrin. It seems like this is planned. But there's pretty much no indication that this was all planned to go that way. In fact, Mikoto's the one who sees it coming. SO DANANKOS COASTS ON SOMEONE'S VISIONS OF HER DEATH AND IT WORKS. The point is that apparently Garon and DAnankos are plotting Mikoto's death, but nothing we see indicates they know squat. 

Back to Revelations, Garon manages to drive his family away unlike in Conquest somehow, despite everything about Conquest (Or in Birthright, fair's fair). DAnankos also says screw it and sends soldiers more often than before in Revelations. However, Gunther, who finds Corrin early, fails to kill Corrin before he enters Valla, which proceeds to be about DAnankos sending wave after wave of his Purple realm goons at Corrin, with the occasional tragic possessed character, until Corrin arrives in the throne room not really knowing anything about the big bad. And then Gunther reveals himself, screwing up another chance to kill the biggest threat, gets depossesed with seppuku (and doesn't die. Least Ryoma had the decency to accept death), and then DAnankos reveals himself, shouts about people sucking, and then proceeds to lose twice to your party, who if you're not me, are all about level 20/20 and can thus destroy DAnankos easily. So DAnankos was some being who felt hurt by people so says F it, kill them all. Revelations tries to wring sympathy for DAnankos with lore about the song, about how DAnankos went mad once and then spiralled from there.

We're supposed to feel bad for Anankos. We get none of that in three campaigns, which is an impressive stat. Across all three timelines, he's stopped by an apparently legendary sword and singsongs. There's no sense of tragedy in practice, because everything that might have emotional weight for Anankos is put behind DLC. Speaking of.....

There's the shit of the second Anankos (aka HAnankos) running around (and being the reason 3/7 of our Awakening references are in this game), who is desperate to stop DAnankos by calling for 3 people who've only recently restored peace and who might want to relax for a bit, who apparently have wishes that never get explained and then HAnankos gets attacked by soldiers sent by DAnankos. HAnankos also makes these heroes stronger by making them weaker (they would be relative to Awakening), DAnankos sends his child and that plan doesn't work. Oh yes, Danankos creates a child who proceeds to join the Corrination after Hanankos talks to her.  Also, HAnankos is Corrin's Father. This one action fucks up EVERYTHING for DAnankos, as we've already seen.

In Heirs of Fate, he succeeded in his plan by overwhelming the deeprealms... temporarily, as Lost In Thoughts All Alone can apparently reset timelines. CONGRATS YOU PLAYED YOURSELF. ON ALL YOUR ROUTES.

Also, DAnankos can make invisible corpse soldiers. Somehow, he loses his wars.

Sure, Validar is pretty weaksauce, but at least he's human, the op powers aren't his. But Anankos is meant to be like a God. AND HE SUCKS AT IT.

tl:dr Anankos sucks as a villain, Manfroy is a terrible person.

[Hero_Lucina]

On 6/21/2017 at 10:55 AM, Thane said:

My usual reply to this thread is always this: Anankos is the only villain who renders two entire games inconsequential just by existing. I think it's hard to compete with that.

I'll third/ what ever place we're at bc he so horrible. 

and he turned a child into a Faceless which is not ok in my book. That's why I dislike Tharja too. Can I quick mention that Julius was actually kind of abusive to Ishtar or does that add to his villiany? 

[Slumber]

On 6/25/2017 at 7:55 PM, Hero_Lucina said:

I'll third/ what ever place we're at bc he so horrible. 

and he turned a child into a Faceless which is not ok in my book. That's why I dislike Tharja too. Can I quick mention that Julius was actually kind of abusive to Ishtar or does that add to his villiany? 

That adds to it. Julius isn't supposed to be sympathetic outside of him basically losing his humanity as a child.

Him being controlling of Ishtar by showing abusive tendencies isn't supposed to get us to like him.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Slumber

[wheelsonfire]

The final mortal villain of RD (those who play the game will know what I'm talking about; it's the one directly related to the Black Knight). The character was interesting and tragic, yet at the same time I felt like I came out of nowhere. In order for the character to make sense, it requires a lot of analysis in both RD and the previous game... Not to mention you still need a second run to encounter everything...

The actual last boss of that game is pretty bad too, for the same reason. I do place a character on the list of most despicable, simply because the character wanted to destroy the entire world, had done so before, and felt literally NOTHING over doing it...

[Hero_Lucina]

15 hours ago, Slumber said:

That adds to it. Julius isn't supposed to be sympathetic outside of him basically losing his humanity as a child.

Him being controlling of Ishtar by showing abusive tendencies isn't supposed to get us to like him.

Alright, I thought it did but I was kind of confused

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Alright, I thought it did but I was kind of confused

The context of his abusive showing in Thracia is him coming up with ways to get rid of Reinhardt, who we are supposed to like to some degree, so he doesn't become focal to Ishtar's time/feelings. We're supposed to feel bad for Ishtar. Same deal with Julius' showings in Genealogy.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Slumber

[Azure Sen]

In terms of the most morally reprehensible, probably Hilda. Manfloy's got evil literally in his blood and he and his fellow Loptyr blooded brethren were persecuted for who knows how long, as little as that excuses his behavior, Bloom at least seemed to care for Tailtiu, Tine and his kids and was motivated by selfish but understandable reasons, and a lot of other villains simply aren't as monstrously evil for no real reason as Hilda is.

In terms of worst written...that's a hard one. I consider a lot of FE villains poorly written. Both versions of the Black Knight are awful (the PoR one is completely irrelevant to that game despite his badassery, the RD version is an unsympathetic jerk that the game desperately wants you to like), Gooron and his goon squad are just mediocre villains who would be more at home in a Saturday morning cartoon, Fernand is a classist jerk with no redeeming traits in base Echoes, Validar is so superfluous you could replace him with a fetching lamp and Awakening's plot would pretty much still be the same, Anankos is just a great big ball of bad writing, and Grima's just boring. I'll go with Anankos, just because he's so poorly written and he basically renders Birthright and Conquest redundant just by existing.

[Integrity]

On 6/24/2017 at 10:32 PM, Katie said:

Manfroy is both poorly written and despicable, so he gets my vote.

preach it my man

 

there's no competition here even, manfroy is worse than just having a non-entity villain like gharnef

[Hero_Lucina]

Honestly, people say that Anthony has a bad arc, and it's not even his fault. It was the fact of Fates being so poorly written. Maybe if the story in Fates was a bit better, he'd get a better arc. 

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Honestly, people say that Anthony has a bad arc, and it's not even his fault. It was the fact of Fates being so poorly written. Maybe if the story in Fates was a bit better, he'd get a better arc. 

Anthony was actually fairly okay. The fault was with everyone else. Corrin being an idiot and the siblings saying he should keep it like that. 

[Hero_Lucina]

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Anthony was actually fairly okay. The fault was with everyone else. Corrin being an idiot and the siblings saying he should keep it like that. 

True. If any of the villians were actual people I'd mainly sympathize with him than hate him. Fates writing should be considered a villian itself

[Punished Dayni]

3 hours ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Fates writing should be considered a villian itself

Alright, I think I'll quote that. Is that alright?

It certainly contributes to my issues with Anankos (which as it turns out, I have many. I was more surprised by the length of that rant than anything).

[Hero_Lucina]

44 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Alright, I think I'll quote that. Is that alright?

It certainly contributes to my issues with Anankos (which as it turns out, I have many. I was more surprised by the length of that rant than anything).

Sure

[Dandy Druid]

My choices have already been said multiple times, so I'll just remind people of another stupid villain- Selena. IMO the worst Camus in Fire Emblem. Stupid Selena was supposed to be sympathetic, but I don't have sympathy for stupidity. She can't claim "muh honurrrr!" when 

Spoiler

Her liege was dead, thus her oath is useless. Yeah I know Vigarde is technically not not dead, but he was still a shell of what he used to be, and is not really the person Selena owed her life to anymore. Duessel left and joined Ephraim, she knew the truth, and she had no reason to really stick around anymore. She could've been an ally and her battle was completely avoidable. She screwed herself basically.

She's not the worst villain, but definitely a stupid one.

[Lerandel]

If you're referring to worst villains in terms of atrocities, then Hilda and Gharnef easily wins it, with Nergal not so far behind.

In terms of writing? Anankos, no questions asked. I think the other people mentioned earlier how he renders two games meaningless just by existing. That easily wins it right there.

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

For me it has to Fernand. Both worse written and terrible human being. Anakos at least had a unique premise.

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 1:55 AM, Hero_Lucina said:

and he turned a child into a Faceless which is not ok in my book. That's why I dislike Tharja too.

Noire isn't a Faceless, though.

[Hero_Lucina]

27 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Noire isn't a Faceless, though.

No, I meant for the fact of abusing/ harming children for no reason

[NinjaMonkey]

She didn't do it "for no reason", she did it because she wanted to test out her hexes to see if they worked, and she can hardly test them out on herself...

Edited July 3, 2017 by NinjaMonkey

[Hero_Lucina]

11 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

She didn't do it "for no reason", she did it because she wanted to test out her hexes to see if they worked, and she can hardly test them out on herself...

Didn't she do it to her without her permission? I'm curious

[Slumber]

14 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

She didn't do it "for no reason", she did it because she wanted to test out her hexes to see if they worked, and she can hardly test them out on herself...

Oh, well that makes it perfectly okay to treat your child like an experiment without their consent.

[NinjaMonkey]

I'd like to point out that this was done in a timeline that no longer exists due to Grima being killed /defeated. Also, Noire from the other timeline agrees to be Tharja's guinea pig to save her still-yet-to-be-born current timeline self from going through this.

[Rapier]

The easy answer is Gharnef and Medeus, and I'm still thinking if I should accept the "but they're from really old games!" excuse because FE2's Mila and Duma at least had more developed personalities (and FE15 improves that, at least regarding Mila, Jedah and others). Evil sorcerer who wants to ressurect a dark dragon because he's evil and a dark dragon who wants to conquer/destroy the world because he is evil (Lopt has the same problem, but at least Julius is more charismatic).

[Hero_Lucina]

1 minute ago, Rapier said:

The easy answer is Gharnef and Medeus, and I'm still thinking if I should accept the "but they're from really old games!" excuse because FE2's Mila and Duma at least had more developed personalities (and FE15 improves that, at least regarding Mila, Jedah and others). Evil sorcerer who wants to ressurect a dark dragon because he's evil and a dark dragon who wants to conquer/destroy the world because he is evil (Lopt has the same problem, but at least Julius is more charismatic).

Yeah, I can agree on the whole Julius thing. He had a lot more personality than your worst choice.

 

I still stand by Fates Writing being the worst villian in the whole series though

[Rapier]

7 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

Yeah, I can agree on the whole Julius thing. He had a lot more personality than your worst choice.

 

I still stand by Fates Writing being the worst villian in the whole series though

Yeah, my issues with Fates come from how it was written, and not with the concepts they used. Garon could've been a much better character, and so could Iago (if he wasn't a wimp with a hate boner in-game), Zola (fun character but scarcely used) and even Anankos. To be fair, the latter doesn't really fit within the game's premise (family/friend bonds, loyalty, morality), but could fit well in another game instead whose main premise is people forgetting about their gods/god and bad stuff happening or whatever was his plot because I don't remember it very well, minus the Vallite shenanigans ("talk about it and you turn into water"). The problem I have with him in Fates is due to his presence being shoehorned into the story. He doesn't fit and he makes it worse.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Rapier