What exactly constitutes as a 'bad character' in Fire Emblem?

[BlackSymphony]

I've been noting how a few people are having a disdain for some characters due to a few reasons, such as how they were designed, their personality, or maybe even the way they perform in battle and the like.

What I'd like to know is from other's opinion, what do you think constitutes as a bad character?

[Magical Glace]

Really depends on what you prioritize.

Like, I hate Camilla as a character (I find her personality rather creepy and much too focused on Corrin) and I don't like her outfit (she looks fine in better clothing), but I won't hesitate to admit that she's a good unit.  

[Von Ithipathachai]

When you get down to it, a unit is bad when they fail to be useful or have too many flaws to justify their benefits.

For example, Nyx in Fates.  Her main role is to be a damage dealer, what with her high Magic and Speed, but there are other characters who can perform her task just as well if not better.  Magic and Speed are literally her only noteworthy stats, with her Resistance being average at best and all of her other stats being complete garbage.  If anything, she makes a good mother for Forrest or Ophelia, who will have Magic and Speed equal to or better than hers on top of better supportive stats.

Practicality/join time is another issue, particularly for the many players who are efficiency nuts.  Units like Marty or any Est archetype character like Sophia or Nino can be fun to use when their full potential is brought out, but to bring that potential out in the first place, they need a lot of player preference and babying to develop.

[Armagon]

Character-wise, i just think it completely comes down to personal preference. When people talk about bad characters, usually one of their reasonings is "their personality is bland". The thing is, 80% of all Fire Emblem characters have personalities that can come across as "bland". Navarre, for instance, is a fan-favorite for many, yet his personality just consists of being edgy and being honorable enough to not hurt women or children. I myself like most Fire Emblem characters. The only characters i don't like are Peri, Tharja, Rhajat. I despise all three of them with a passion. Then there's Sigurd but i don't really hate him. He's just my least favorite Lord (fitting since the Jugdral games are my least favorite FE games).

Gameplay-wise, there's a lot of factors. Stats, growths, availability, etc. Although as someone who benches Raigh and Niime and uses Sophia instead, i don't really care for all that. Sophia's one of my favorite characters in the series, character-wise, and if it means giving her a bunch of favoritism during my Binding Blade playthroughs to make her amazing, then i'll gladly do it.

[MadJak91]

Freaking barely dressed loli. I do not care you are over a thousand years old >:(

[Etrurian emperor]

What constitutes a bad character would depend on the person. Some would point at a glaring flaw while others would conclude a complete lack of interesting features makes a character bad. 

Its also a matter of taste. Someone like me would judge a tsundere much more harshly. I'd be quick to call them terrible persons but lots of other people love the sweet behavior that's beneath all that rudeness. 

For me a particular thing that drags characters down is if they harm other characters. Peri for example hurts Corrin and Xander because its out of character for them to be okay with a mass murderer. They spend a good chunk of their screentime expressing horror at such people after all. 

 I personally hold a very clear distinction between ''bad'' characters and ones that the writers just decided to treat like garbage. A lot of people think Azura is a bad character for example but I think its more that the writers handled her very poorly. The supports depict a likable, sympathetic and decently deep person. A character like Peri on the other hand is just bad by design. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Original Alear]

Early game bosses are usually among the baddest. Just not cool in being bad. They are usually not policy makers if they are part of an enemy army, they usually do not talk if they are on the side of a bunch of zombies (see FE8 or 13, risen, undead etc). Or they are brigands. Occasionally an early game boss is cool though, I guess.

[Etrurian emperor]

10 minutes ago, Professor Groeteschele said:

Early game bosses are usually among the baddest. Just not cool in being bad. They are usually not policy makers if they are part of an enemy army, they usually do not talk if they are on the side of a bunch of zombies (see FE8 or 13, risen, undead etc). Or they are brigands. Occasionally an early game boss is cool though, I guess.

Though can't you argue those characters competently do the job they were meant to do. The lord tend to start out in a weak position so they would be facing smaller threats. 

[Original Alear]

9 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Though can't you argue those characters competently do the job they were meant to do. The lord tend to start out in a weak position so they would be facing smaller threats. 

Ya, absolutely! Barring a story where like, the main villain invades a town or something, it wouldn't really make sense for the most dangerous or compelling bosses to be the first ones fought. I guess FE 5 and 9 did that best with somewhat early appearances of Galzus and the Black Knight, and to some extent F4 w/ that guy who uses the mistoltainn? Dunno.

But like, remember glass from FE7... -_-

Edited June 21, 2017 by Professor Groeteschele

[Ertrick36]

Well, it's all subjective obviously.  From all the FE I've played thus far, I've yet to come across a character that I had a huge disdain for.  There are characters I don't like very much, such as Camilla, but none I've outright hated.

The main thing I hate is when the tone of a character contradicts how I feel about them.  What I mean by this is that the game is trying to make me feel one thing, but I feel completely different (usually negatively so).  So like, a character like Jar Jar from Star Wars is supposed to make me laugh (I say "me", but I mean "children", but for the sake of the example, just roll with "me"), but instead I just find him grating.  And I suppose they're also bad if they aren't all that interesting.  So in that sense, a lot of characters in the series are pretty bad, but none of them are to the point I legitimately hate them.  Like Setsuna... she's kinda boring to me, but I hardly hate her.

And if you're asking about what makes a bad unit...  I'd say either if they're not useful at all or if they're too useful.  The former is obvious... and by the way, doesn't necessarily refer to Jeigans, for those who are on that "Jeigans are entirely useless" train.  But as for the latter, they're "bad" because they make the game too easy.  I don't like having a mindless safety net like that.  I don't like that I can just throw Seth at a bunch of enemies and complete the whole chapter like that.  That's boring as hell, and thus makes them a bad unit to me.  I get that you can make a lot of characters OP if you want to, but the ones I'm referring to start OP and stay OP as long as you use them, so you can't even have fun leveling them, really.

23 hours ago, Professor Groeteschele said:

Early game bosses are usually among the baddest. Just not cool in being bad. They are usually not policy makers if they are part of an enemy army, they usually do not talk if they are on the side of a bunch of zombies (see FE8 or 13, risen, undead etc). Or they are brigands. Occasionally an early game boss is cool though, I guess.

Well, I guess you'd consider Gheb an early game boss, and he has a whole character arc...

Spoiler

that's explored in the oh so good fanhack.  I know, I know...  I'm totally original and not at all just some memey shitlord who likes to beat dead horses.

 

[maybe]

really depends on who's answering this, and I think most people will try to separate design, personality, and performance when talking about how "good" or "bad" a character is

On 6/21/2017 at 3:35 PM, Armagon said:

Character-wise, i just think it completely comes down to personal preference. When people talk about bad characters, usually one of their reasonings is "their personality is bland". The thing is, 80% of all Fire Emblem characters have personalities that can come across as "bland". Navarre, for instance, is a fan-favorite for many, yet his personality just consists of being edgy and being honorable enough to not hurt women or children. I myself like most Fire Emblem characters. The only characters i don't like are Peri, Tharja, Rhajat. I despise all three of them with a passion. Then there's Sigurd but i don't really hate him. He's just my least favorite Lord (fitting since the Jugdral games are my least favorite FE games).

yeah navarre's a pretty bad example here

he's not particularly popular to begin with, but even then, of course he's not gonna have a very developed personality; he gets like 4 lines of dialogue.  i don't think anyone's going to argue with calling navarre "bland", even people who like him. if there are people with the same level of character in say, path of radiance or awakening, then it's a fair complaint, since those games give much more opportunity to flesh out characters.

[Book Bro]

I don't know if I have a clear set of criteria to determine which characters I dislike. 

For example, I dislike Tharja because she's pandering and has a bad design, but I don't dislike Camilla even though she fits that same description. I guess if there's at least something appealing I can grasp on to, then I won't hate the character even if they tick some of the typical boxes for me. Like with Tharja and Camilla, for the latter I can say she's one of the best units in her game and the hints that she suffers from a mental disorder and the small backstory she gets in supports make me find her interesting. Whereas with Tharja, I can't really think of anything that redeems her. To complete this "obsessive 3DS trio" and emphasize my point more, Faye is in the neutral middle, because while she's dull and obsessive she's a very good unit, but there's still nothing that elevates her from "meh" to "interesting" for me.

And then, there are characters like Peri who are just awful on concept alone that I can't even begin to comprehend how anyone could like such a character. And others like Xander, whose role in the plot frustrates me to the point where not even the fact that he's a good unit and has decent supports can save him. 

[NekoKnight]

There are many ways a character can be bad, but to me, the worst thing is a character with negative traits that aren't acknowledged by other people. Asama is total douchebag but he's allowed to be a royal retainer and people can somehow fall in love with this jerk. Pieri is a serial killer, but most characters treat it like a quirk instead of serious mental instability.

In a more general sense, characters with gimmick personalities are somewhere on the sliding scale of meh to bad. I really don't care for people like Kellam and Setsuna who are just there to convey a single joke, over and over again.

[blah the Prussian]

As a general rule a character is bad i.e. they have failed when the majority of the audience has a different opinion of them than the intention. For example, as others have said, Camilla was supposed to be recieved as a doting, motherly figure whose batshit insanity is played for laughs, but instead most people see her as basically a creepy psycho bitch, with a good deal of justification. Another example: Jar Jar in the Star Wars prequels was played for laughs but everyone over the age of four found him annoying. Obviously there are more steps, but the writer and audience being on the same page regarding a character is a good place to start, because it shows that the character is relatable enough to connect to the audience. If you can't do that no amount of good writing will save this character.

[Mendralozhama]

It depends honestly.

For example, Takumi was supposed to be distrustful despite being kind to those he cares about, but he end up to be a VERY polarizing character.

Even if his suspicion is justified, he is a bother to most people because either they find him annoying or he takes his hatred waaaay too far to the point they can't stand him anymore.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Mendralozhama

[Anacybele]

If you're talking about as a unit, then as others said, they would have too many flaws compared to benefits, some stats that are too low, etc.

As characters though, yeah, it's all preference, really. Whether you like well-developed and deep characters or quirky shallow ones, it doesn't seem to matter much.

4 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

Camilla was supposed to be recieved as a doting, motherly figure whose batshit insanity is played for laughs, but instead most people see her as basically a creepy psycho bitch, with a good deal of justification.

Except Camilla is super popular for some reason?

[Von Ithipathachai]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

If you're talking about as a unit, then as others said, they would have too many flaws compared to benefits, some stats that are too low, etc.

As characters though, yeah, it's all preference, really. Whether you like well-developed and deep characters or quirky shallow ones, it doesn't seem to matter much.

Except Camilla is super popular for some reason?

They forgive her for being creepy for three obvious reasons.

[Ertrick36]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Except Camilla is super popular for some reason?

I'd say she's as popular as she is hated, which I suppose is more a symptom of her popularity.  It seems that for the top three males and females of FE Fates, you've got people who either love or hate them.  Awakening I suppose is sort of the same way; like, people either love or hate Gaius, and the same goes for the game's poster child Lucina.  The only examples I can recall of popular characters only having "meh" reactions at worst are, like, Chrom and Leo.

I still think design is the biggest reason she's so popular, followed by her being a pretty good unit.  I personally don't care for her design; the armor is nice and I can even ignore pointlessly exposed cleavage, but battle panties for a wyvern rider is simply stupid.  Though I also think I'm swayed by my opinion of their personality, as the characters whose designs I find the most appealing are also the ones I genuinely like the most.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I'd say she's as popular as she is hated, which I suppose is more a symptom of her popularity.  It seems that for the top three males and females of FE Fates, you've got people who either love or hate them.  Awakening I suppose is sort of the same way; like, people either love or hate Gaius, and the same goes for the game's poster child Lucina.  The only examples I can recall of popular characters only having "meh" reactions at worst are, like, Chrom and Leo.

Yeah, I guess they are the kind of characters you either love or hate, huh?

[Nobody]

23 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

They forgive her for being creepy for three obvious reasons.

Great base stats, amazing growth rates, perfect join time.

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

Great base stats, amazing growth rates, perfect join time.

...Actually, I was referring to each of her breasts and her booty, but those work too.  Dangit.

[Skynstein]

Story-wise a bad FE character is a bad character everywhere else, no mystery here.

So I think a bad character is simply one that's not useful enough. In Awakening for example I really don't like using Vaike, he's not fast enough to double enemies and he's not sturdy enough to endure too many hits despite his bonus HP from his starting skill. He's a berserker archetype (not the class, the historic Norse soldier), so he has high Atk and average/bad everything else. Not very flexible IMO.

[StrykerZ]

Well I say there are 2 kinds first of all. A bad unit, and a bad character. A bad character would be someone with little to no backstory, no good supports, and just overall dull. A bad unit would be someone with bad growths and bad basses, or just really backwards like an axe weilder with little attack and speed but high res. or being one of the weakest out of the 10th cavalier you got in this game already. That's my take on it anyways.

[Loki Laufeyson]

4 hours ago, Nobody said:

Great base stats, amazing growth rates, perfect join time.

Cheers. 

This is such a subjective question, everyone will give a different answer or a resounding "it depends". Cuz honestly, this no right or wrong answer. What bugs NekoKnight may not bother Nobody. What makes a bad character to Glaceon Sage is likely totally different from what makes a bad character to me.

bad characters to me are:

Super one-note characters who have no depth. (i.e. Ilyana, Faye, Setsuna, etc)

Personality that relies on some sexist joke. (i.e. Sain, Saul, Lon'qu, Soleil, etc. sorry Lonk fans

Guys who are just dumb. Not even endearing dumb like Bartre, i mean like Vaike levels of dumb. 

Characters who are plain meanspirited just because. (Jakob, Azama, etc)

Units who cannot double ever (unless i like them as characters. See Benny for details). 

Units who dont grow well no matter how much resources you have. 

And just plain units who cant pull their weight. 

[Thane]

Since people have already brought up the most important points already, like "bad" being a matter of point of view, an overreliance on gimmicks tending to bring a character down, and so on, I'll touch upon something else: the intent behind the character and how they work in the story.

No one is going to say Brom is the most complex or engaging character in the series, but chances are no one cares because he's not meant to be that, either; he's a regular farmer in an army of superhumans and people who can transform into animals. His perspective is one of a commoner, which adds a more human touch to Ike's ragtag bunch of misfits, and thus I think he fits nicely as a support character.

Meanwhile, people loathe Kris because his role in the story means stealing the spotlight from Marth and taking credit for his accomplishments - accomplishments that date back to the third game where Kris didn't even exist. I also consider Alm to be one of the worst lords in the series since he goes against the two main themes of Echoes, thus making it feel like he doesn't even fit into his own game.