What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Ether]

13 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

 

 The sword that's now resting nicely resting in her cleavage because she decided to protect everything but her vitals for some reason that could not have been worth her life.

As for my unpopular opinion I think fates weapon system is far better than that of other games.

You could say the same about any character not wearing armour, which is a lot of them across the series. It's hard to stab someone that's flying past you on a big ass lizard, you know.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Ether said:

All we can gleam from this is that Nohr operates on a differing moral compass from our own, or from medieval times.

You're implying Fates has worldbuilding. And that Soleil was made to be serious lesbian character and not a Japanese joke. If they made her work better in the NA release, good that they did that, but it doesn't hide the origins of her personality. And that, Nohr just wasn't intended to be fanservicey. This is the game that let you marry your siblings after all- the ones you were raised with, and the ones that by BS you aren't actually related to. Not to mention babyrealms!

FE always operates according to some blend of modern values, with just a hint of actual medieval ones. An actual totally medieval FE would turn people off.

If Tellius were actually medieval, the Christian Beorc would kill the heretic Mohammedan Laguz and Ike and Ashnard wouldn't exist. Instead, we get the modern idea of cultural pluralism and tolerance and understanding as being important. No discrimination towards the non-noble and those of different cultures.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Azure Sen]

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

I do agree that Walhart is a wet thud of a villain, but I'd say his motivation it pretty much the only thing that makes him unique.

While most other "conquerors" like Ashnard are a bit more charismatic and intimidating, their motivations are usually paper thin. Walhart's the opposite, in that the idea of culling the weak to ensure a population strong enough to stand up to a big catastrophe is a bit more of a fleshed out idea, but again, he has the personality of a grain of rice.

Walhart's initial motivation was to unite the world under one banner/unite Valm to fight the Grimeal, but then he got drunk off power and just turned into a conqueror. Never is it suggested that his plan involves culling the weak to create a nation strong enough to stand up to Grima, unless I missed something from the Japanese version.

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

I only care if it's done kind of tastefully. It's not like having large breasts makes a character inherently less respectful. As much as people like her for her breasts, I like Tifa from FF7 as a character. More than Yuffie and Aerith by a long shot.

Tifa at least has agency within the narrative and motivations of her own and has aspects of her character beyond Cloud and the fanservice elements of her design, which have become exaggerated by years of fandom overplaying them; a fact that is especially apparent if you look at her in-game render, her official art and her Advent Children design.  

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Caeda wears a full leather breastplate and high boots that are nearly pants.

In some versions of her art, Caeda wears pants or at least leggings, too. Same with the Whitewings. 

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

FE always operates according to some blend of modern values, with just a hint of actual medieval ones. An actual totally medieval FE would turn people off.

Even calling it a hint is too much. I've said it before, but FE is a series with modern sensibilities and vaguely generically medieval aesthetics, based on pop culture visions of the medieval period no less.

[Mackc2]

33 minutes ago, Ether said:

You could say the same about any character not wearing armour, which is a lot of them across the series. It's hard to stab someone that's flying past you on a big ass lizard, you know.

The difference is she IS wearing armour and is getting no more protection than say Marth who just wears a probably far lighter and more comfortable tunic. That said her big metal boots are a good idea because the easiest place to cut a person on a flying dragons would be their feet and legs plus you could kick people as you fly past and that sounds like fun and for that I sin other fliers for not having big boots to kick people in the face. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Mackc2

[Emperor Hardin]

9 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Walhart's initial motivation was to unite the world under one banner/unite Valm to fight the Grimeal, but then he got drunk off power and just turned into a conqueror. Never is it suggested that his plan involves culling the weak to create a nation strong enough to stand up to Grima, unless I missed something from the Japanese version.

Thats basically it, combined with Excellus manipulating him to buy time for the Grimleal.

[Mackc2]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Thats basically it, combined with Excellus manipulating him to buy time for the Grimleal.

I never understood Walhart's plan, lets start a war and kill off a lot of able fighters so that the world has more able fighters to fight the Grimleal, firstly Walhart that is not how numbers work, secondly the Grimleal aren't that strong, if Chrom could beat them with a merry band of about fifty soldiers a whole continents worth should suffice and thirdly he could have just asked Chrom, Chroms cool he probably would have helped and they could have gone Grimleal hunting and ate bears together but he had to be all I will crush everything with my own might.

[familyplayer]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Also, on your point with the dancers- Kaga has his weird thing with female slavery, but I think at the end of the day he's condemning it (?).

Lara went through a lot of shit and is fine, so I guess so? (He definitely is) It surprisingly doesn't seem to affect her that much though. Maybe Perne/Pahn just had that much of a positive influence?

[SoulWeaver]

4 hours ago, Ether said:

I can understand the trepidation over the young kids watching, but the game isn't intended for young children... the ESRB rating exists for a reason afterall. Teens these days are exposed to far worse in media anyway, so the T rating makes sense. I get wanting to be able to play with your cousins, but decrying a game for not conforming to an E rating that it doesn't have seems misguided, at least to me.

Yeah, the problem here is that I'm the one cousin that the little ones straight-up adore and want to do everything just like. No, it's not for young people, but that doesn't change the fact that my cousins - most of whom played Heroes and some of whom have played some of Sacred Stones and all of whom think FE is a completely kid-friendly series - think it's ok to watch me and none of them really understand the concept of fanservice yet and I'm not interested in being the one to teach that idea. It also doesn't help that they all want to play the games I play and I've had to try and tell them no, you can't play that game.

3 hours ago, Ether said:

Imagine if someone got angry when the next smash game comes around, because Superman isn't in it? It'd seem like a silly complaint, why would you expect Superman to be in Smash? 

I think Goku would be a closer to accurate analogy - I've heard all kinds of people whine about Goku not being in Smash, but never Superman.

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This said, it is just dawning on me that I'm a hypocrite- in the past I've criticized Camilla, but not Hyrule Warriors's Cia, thinking the latter had justification and the former didn't, but their situations aren't that different. Is it fair to distinguish between the two?

Yeah, that's been another game I've had to tell my cousins they can't play with me, though Hyrule Warriors is a little better because I can avoid Cia by staying to Adventure Mode and only letting them play levels I've already beat and know Cia isn't in, and I've told them none of them are allowed to play Cia so we haven't had problems there so far.

1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:

The difference is she IS wearing armour and is getting no more protection than say Marth who just wears a probably far lighter and more comfortable tunic. That said her big metal boots are a good idea because the easiest place to cut a person on a flying dragons would be their feet and legs plus you could kick people as you fly past and that sounds like fun and for that I sin other fliers for not having big boots to kick people in the face. 

Sure, the boots are useful, I agree all the Fliers should have something to the same effect, but I at least will continue to harp on her lack of pants.

[FoxyGrandpa]

-Fe4 is the worst Fire Emblem game in terms of Map design.

-Archer!Kliff is better than Archer!Tobin

-A 30% growth in a stat is actually not too bad if a character has a serviceable base in said stat (i.e. FE7 Lowen)

-Shadow Dragon has some of the best map design in the entire series

-Fire Emblem games Post and Pre Kaga are about the same quality

-Knights and Generals are fairly underrated units

-Sages Having the same movement as generals should be the standard in every Fire Emblem game.

-Corrin is an underrated character and much better than both Robin and Kris.

-Pair up is a good mechanics that adds a lot more strategy to the games they are present in

-Lyn is the worst lord out of the 3 in Blazing Sword

-Fates and Awakening have an underrated cast of characters

-Fe1 has pretty decent graphics compared to other nes games at the time

[Chad Radwell]

5 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

-Knights and Generals are fairly underrated units

SPREAD THIS GOSPEL.

[ping]

Re: Camilla - unlike other fanservice-y characters, she is sexualized beyond her appearance. Yes, Tifa shows some leg and has a large bust - but she does not have the camera lingering over her butt, crotch, and décolleté during her introduction, and doesn't do the head-into-cleavage routine that Camilla does at one point. If anything, she's a great example that large breasts are not automatically sexualizing someone. Not every woman has the same cup size, people, get over it.

If it was only for Camilla's outfit, I honestly wouldn't mind it too much. The battle panties are a bit too much, but eh. Really, it's the cutscenes I've mentioned, some of her voice clips ("You need a spanking!", "Mommy's here") and her obsession with the avatar which makes her look like a strange mixture of a big sister/mommy fetish to me, despite her character offering more than that in other circumstances (i.e. when the avatar is neither present nor subject of the conversation), and that is a shame.

[FRZNHeir]

13 hours ago, Ether said:

Most FE games with both a male and a female protagonist would be better served having only the female protagonist. FE repeatedly puts their female "main characters" on the sideline in order to allow their male counterparts to swoop in and remind us all that they are, in fact, the real heroes. I don't need another burly dude with blue hair who is amazing at combat and without any flaws acknowledged by the story who either gets everything right, or gets it wrong but it doesn't matter because the game treats them like they were right the whole time. Give us a solo female lord for once so she can actually get proper character development on her own without being shoehorned into a plot device to show us how great generic male lord template is again.

I personally like how Sacred Stones handled the twins. Ephraim is shown to essentially be a combat prodigy, however, he also had been shown to have trained under one of Grado's generals, Duessel. Eirika, on the other hand, has just enough training to hold her own, however, she doesn't really have the ability to destroy everything in combat, but had focused much more on her studies. 
The only issue I see with the twins is how Eirika is totally naive, but in the grand scheme of things, it works well with her character. Just leads to some idiotic moments in the story.

[HylianBelmont]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:46 PM, Nanima said:

That's good to hear then. Guess that's at least one positive thing we got from the whole affair.

To be honest, I've seen people whose favourite Lords are both Micaiah AND Corrin for the same/similar reasons (Having to do bad things against their will, "they're more human/relateable than the other FE Lords" sentiment, etc.) and IDK. It's just kinda amusing to me when you get fan overlap for certain characters like that, haha.

[Lau]

I always laugh when people bring up fanservice in video games, have you not seen what teenage girls as young as 14 are wearing nowadays? And look at all the female celebrities with their 'breasts hanging out'. Though I have to say, that sword girl from the new Xenoblade has an outfit that blows Camilla's away, those shorts are awful, and her breasts are too stiff.

I could care less about the gender of a lord, as long as they're a good character.

I'd love to see a staff using lord though who eventually learns how to fight.

[Akabon]

On 9/13/2017 at 7:44 PM, Tuvy2 said:

Lucina is the wort character ever introduced to any franchise.

FInally! Something I can agree one!

[Florina's #1 Fan]

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

I could care less about the gender of a lord, as long as they're a good character.

The problem is that they just can't wrap their heads around writing a female as well as they write males in the series. I want them to prove to me they can write a genuinely good female lord without dumping fanservice all over her and creating a male lord to show her up. I wouldn't care about the gender of the character either if the character had an 100% chance of being a good character regardless of what gender they are, but currently, it doesn't look like that's possible :\

4 minutes ago, Lau said:

I'd love to see a staff using lord though who eventually learns how to fight.

Lissa Emblem. *Drop the mike*

Edited September 19, 2017 by Florina's #1 Fan

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, FRZNHeir said:

Ephraim is shown to essentially be a combat prodigy, however, he also had been shown to have trained under one of Grado's generals, Duessel. Eirika, on the other hand, has just enough training to hold her own, however, she doesn't really have the ability to destroy everything in combat, but had focused much more on her studies.

I'm in agreement that even though Ephraim is a bit too good a fighter (the Valter-Renvall situation), he does have justification behind it. And by the way- how did Robin learn to strategize? All we know is that they were a runaway Grimalealean, nothing more.

 

11 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Even calling it a hint is too much. I've said it before, but FE is a series with modern sensibilities and vaguely generically medieval aesthetics, based on pop culture visions of the medieval period no less.

I guess the only thing really holding FE back from going full on Tales is that Tales has fantasy sci-fi elements and those would have issues relating to FE gameplay.

I also think IS's modern sensibilities approach may be hindering its plots. Tellius for instance has Laguz-Beorc conflict, and while it is mentioned that Laguz were the oppressors at one point and hate on the Branded, the picture one feels of the situation in the game and not just the lore is that the Laguz are always the oppressed, and the Beorc always the oppressors. IS can't quite accept the (controversial) idea that the oppressed are capable of oppressing.

But at least IS tried to balance the picture with Tellius, and I praise their effort. Fates and SoV weren't so lucky. IS creates a path of Conquest, but modern sensibilities say "being an aggressor in war is bad, self-defense is the only reason to ever fight". Thus Corrin cannot actively approve of conquering Hoshido without the magic throne, and even with it is being dragged along whining all the way by the totally evil Garon. For SoV, the back of the game box says "The way of the sword or the way of the heart?", but modern sensibilities say "The way of the heart is the only way!". Thus, Alm is compassionate and the dichotomy between him and Celica is ruined because he has a heart already, on top of a sword.

The irony of the CQ and SoV situations just described is that neither game was really supposed to approve of conquest or the sword. Conquest was to be about reforming a corrupt kingdom from within, with the conquest, in part at least, a fruit of the corruption that would be fixed. The path of the sword was supposed to be wrong all along, and in the end Alm would have to learn that both the sword and heart were needed. Yet, IS simply couldn't let itself be seen as promoting the sword even for a moment, so it made sure to load Alm up on heart from the get go. Even though it destroyed his potential character development and made him perfect while Celica actually had to grow, which made her weaker than Alm.

[Von Ithipathachai]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And by the way- how did Robin learn to strategize? All we know is that they were a runaway Grimleal, nothing more.

I dunno.  How did Mark learn to strategize?  Furthermore, how do they even get by as a tactician for hire?  It all seems very far-fetched, really.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Von Ithipathachai

[Etrurian emperor]

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Also, on your point with the dancers- Kaga has his weird thing with female slavery, but I think at the end of the day he's condemning it (?).

I don't think its necessarily a thing of Kaga. The whole series is full of with bandits trying to sell females into slavery. Lyn and Florina in Lyn's mode, Micaiah in her very first chapter and with how little dialogue Gaiden had I'm assuming all the bandits saying how much they want to sell off Celica were put in when Kaga was long gone. Even the more lighthearted newer games have bandit slavers.

I'm fine with it. Its rather in character for bandits to do so. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think its necessarily a thing of Kaga. The whole series is full of with bandits trying to sell females into slavery. Lyn and Florina in Lyn's mode, Micaiah in her very first chapter and with how little dialogue Gaiden had I'm assuming all the bandits saying how much they want to sell off Celica were put in when Kaga was long gone. Even the more lighthearted newer games have bandit slavers.

I'm fine with it. Its rather in character for bandits to do so.

I totally forgot about Florina's joining chapter. IS can make threats of sex slavery invisible/bearable to the innocent eye. 

And yeah, its in character for bandits so I'm fine with it too.

[Skyla]

Oh so much Ike hate, damn....um so does that mean liking Ike is an unpopular opinion then? ^^;

•) I, for the most part, adore Ike. *He is also my favourite Fe Lord*

•) Fe 9&10 are the best fire emblem games in my opinion.

•) Roy and Elwood are amazing Lords and I prefer them over Lucina.

•) I like Fates to a degree but Awakening is trash.... ^^;

Of course these are all my opinions.

Also not related to the post or anything but Yune is actually responsible for stealing Micaiah's spotlight not Ike. 

 

[SoulWeaver]

2 hours ago, Lau said:

I always laugh when people bring up fanservice in video games, have you not seen what teenage girls as young as 14 are wearing nowadays? And look at all the female celebrities with their 'breasts hanging out'. Though I have to say, that sword girl from the new Xenoblade has an outfit that blows Camilla's away, those shorts are awful, and her breasts are too stiff.

I actually am blessed to not ever deal with celebrities and their ridiculously stupid fashion and modesty ideas thanks to the wonderful magic of a) not having a TV besides the one we use for a computer monitor and the one we use to play Custom Robo and Melee on, and b) almost never seeing the magazines at stores because they put the line I always use right by the Trading Cards so I have far more interesting things to worry about. Also, just because we don't bring up fanservice in real life doesn't mean we're not pissed off about the fact that, for example, I see at least one random customer come in with her butt pretty much hanging out of the 'legs' of her 'shorts' every week when I go play Cipher at my local game store, the problem is that if you complain about real life you're more often than not told that you're "trying to suppress free speech" or some other such nonsensical garbage, whereas I've yet to hear anyone try to make that argument about a video game's fanservicey characters and outfits. It's more the fact that we can complain about electronic fanservice in relative safety because you can easily ignore any idiot on the internet - heck, you could just ignore me right here. Does it make sense? No, but when was the last time life made sense?

I do agree with your other two points, though. I'd prefer a female Lord in the end, yes, but that's in part because I'm a guy so boobs are almost always a plus so long as they're properly covered, so if we get another male Lord, eh, fine, so long as I don't want to kill myself every time I have to read his dialogue. Also, a Staff-Wielding Lord would make for a really interesting game because it would force you to actually rely on all those early recruits the games always stick down your throat for as long as it took the Lord character to learn how to use a better weapon.

Just now, Skylorella Con said:

Oh so much Ike hate, dang....um so does that mean liking Ike is an unpopular opinion then? ^^;

•) I, for the most part, adore Ike. *He is also my favourite FE Lord*

•) Fe 9&10 are the best fire emblem games in my opinion.

•) Roy and Eliwood are amazing Lords and I prefer them over Lucina.

•) I like Fates to a degree but Awakening is trash.... ^^;

Of course these are all my opinions.

Also not related to the post or anything but Yune is actually responsible for stealing Micaiah's spotlight not Ike. 

Um…kind of. At least Anacybele isn't alone on this thread any more, though.

Having never played the Tellius series, I can't speak for the first two, and I haven't gotten very far in Blazing Sword and can't really perform that comparison yet. I can, however, ask about the last one. Out of curiosity, what exactly was it about Awakening that you thought was trash? I'm someone who started with Awakening, so sometimes I feel like 'first-game-syndrome' has me seeing it with rose-tinted lenses.

[Skyla]

15 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Um…kind of. At least Anacybele isn't alone on this thread any more, though.

Having never played the Tellius series, I can't speak for the first two, and I haven't gotten very far in Blazing Sword and can't really perform that comparison yet. I can, however, ask about the last one. Out of curiosity, what exactly was it about Awakening that you thought was trash? I'm someone who started with Awakening, so sometimes I feel like 'first-game-syndrome' has me seeing it with rose-tinted lenses.

Um...i think calling it trash was a bit extreme. Haha! Sorry.

Awakening was also the game that got me in to the franchise but looking back at it now, it's pretty lack luster. It has a rather significant flaws and I didn't enjoy the story that much since act 1 and 2 were pretty predictable and act 3 was just all over the place.

I also dislike 2 of the 3 lords Lucina being the exception. Some of the missions were pretty boring because the map design was very simple and bland for the large section of the game. Most of them just felt like random encounters.

It's still a good game but not something I enjoyed tbh.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Skylorella Con

[Lau]

43 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I actually am blessed to not ever deal with celebrities and their ridiculously stupid fashion and modesty ideas thanks to the wonderful magic of a) not having a TV besides the one we use for a computer monitor and the one we use to play Custom Robo and Melee on, and b) almost never seeing the magazines at stores because they put the line I always use right by the Trading Cards so I have far more interesting things to worry about. Also, just because we don't bring up fanservice in real life doesn't mean we're not pissed off about the fact that, for example, I see at least one random customer come in with her butt pretty much hanging out of the 'legs' of her 'shorts' every week when I go play Cipher at my local game store, the problem is that if you complain about real life you're more often than not told that you're "trying to suppress free speech" or some other such nonsensical garbage, whereas I've yet to hear anyone try to make that argument about a video game's fanservicey characters and outfits. It's more the fact that we can complain about electronic fanservice in relative safety because you can easily ignore any idiot on the internet - heck, you could just ignore me right here. Does it make sense? No, but when was the last time life made sense?

I do agree with your other two points, though. I'd prefer a female Lord in the end, yes, but that's in part because I'm a guy so boobs are almost always a plus so long as they're properly covered, so if we get another male Lord, eh, fine, so long as I don't want to kill myself every time I have to read his dialogue. Also, a Staff-Wielding Lord would make for a really interesting game because it would force you to actually rely on all those early recruits the games always stick down your throat for as long as it took the Lord character to learn how to use a better weapon.

Awh no, I'm not gonna ignore you. You lucky man you, not having to deal with celebrities and the like. Yeah, I guess it is all about freedom of speech and all that crap in real life, but it's just some food for thought, I guess. Ah well, this is the world we live in.

52 minutes ago, Skylorella Con said:

Oh so much Ike hate, damn....um so does that mean liking Ike is an unpopular opinion then? ^^;

•) I, for the most part, adore Ike. *He is also my favourite Fe Lord*

•) Fe 9&10 are the best fire emblem games in my opinion.

•) Roy and Elwood are amazing Lords and I prefer them over Lucina.

•) I like Fates to a degree but Awakening is trash.... ^^;

Of course these are all my opinions.

Also not related to the post or anything but Yune is actually responsible for stealing Micaiah's spotlight not Ike. 

 

Liking Ike is definitely a popular opinion, number one in CYL, a large majority of the community worships the damn ground he walks on, and people just freaking love him. I don't understand why, but hey, I'm in the minority who hates his guts, so I don't really care, you like who you like.

The Tellius games are indeed good, but I prefer several games over them such as SoV, Awakening and Blazing Blade. I won't lie, I'd love to see them in HD.

I completely agree with you on Roy and Eliwood! Argh, I could hug you! I love Lucina, but the father and son duo just have a certain charm.

I'm not too keen on Fates, but I adore Awakening, but you do you, friend.

It really is nice seeing some of these opinions.

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think its necessarily a thing of Kaga. The whole series is full of with bandits trying to sell females into slavery. Lyn and Florina in Lyn's mode, Micaiah in her very first chapter and with how little dialogue Gaiden had I'm assuming all the bandits saying how much they want to sell off Celica were put in when Kaga was long gone. Even the more lighthearted newer games have bandit slavers.

I'm fine with it. Its rather in character for bandits to do so. 

I think female slavery is used as a G rated alternative to what real people would do. I imagine that bandits would just rape and kill a woman unless they could ransomed, but Nintendo doesn't want the R word in their games.

Not that I mind, really. It's a suitably heavy topic that doesn't need to be explicitly discussed. This isn't Game of Thrones here.