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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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So, once again, let's start:

1- We don't need any FE newcomer for the next Smash;

2- Roy, Corrin and Lucina should be removed from Smash;

3- Exclusive skills(Heroes) were the worst idea possible;

4- The Last Promise is best FE.

Edited by Ace Pelleas
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1 hour ago, Refa said:

How so?

 

Well....

Horsies can't be anywhere as tanky as Hector.

Horsies can't do critting unlike Rutger.

Horsies can't One ko or 2 ko enemies unlike Raven.

Horsies have broken movement unlike footies and yes I said that. I mean, footies have some challenge in them. Any one with a horse is mostly a good unit no matter what.

 

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2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Well I'm bias for Raven and considering his good bases, its way better than that of Marcus if you ask me.

My point is that anyone with the right bases should be able to OHKO/2HKO enemies regardless of their class.

(I'm going to assume you meant X-hit KO and not X-turn KO.)

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3 hours ago, Ace Pelleas said:

1- We don't need any newcomer for the next Smash;

2- Roy, Corrin and Lucina should be removed from Smash;

3- Exclusive skills(Heroes) were the worst idea possible;

4- The Last Promise is best FE.

…I'm trying to figure out if you're joking. Are you trying to start a fight? I assure you, we're all quite capable of verbally beating each other up without stuff like this getting involved.

Also my RoyBoy pride is involved fight me

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Chu chu.... This is what I'm good at.

- The series is becoming more anime and fanservice-y by the minute. I swear most of the Heroes population is people who like anime and want to see characters that are anime. 

- Fates as a concept is actually quite interesting. The places and locations were good, and the start of it could have been entertaining if it was EXECUTED PROPERLY. Look, I may be alone on this, but I believe if more time was put into the project 

- Heroes shouldn't have become this popular. I have a bad feeling this is going to alter the series for the ill. I'm also not a fan of the power creeps and the unbalanced character tier that the game threw at us. In most system games, everyone was pretty balanced, at you could pretty much use everyone. Heroes, only certain units have those powers. (Also, the game needs to stop praising certain characters in Awakening and Fates.)

- Marth deserve more respect. Look, he may be a 'bland' lord to some, but he started the franchise. He has an interesting backstory, and he is somebody people can look up to. A real Hero-King, perhaps. But I feel like he is just needs to be more up there and talked about.

- We need Avatar units, but not in major roles. I like the concept fitting 'you' into the game. (Awakening sorta did that.) However, I don't want another 'Corrin' incident, because that was a disaster. Simple, avatar units, but not a major character. 

- Robin isn't a Lord. (But he is my favorite character so.)

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33 minutes ago, Zepler said:

- The series is becoming more anime and fanservice-y by the minute. I swear most of the Heroes population is people who like anime and want to see characters that are anime.

I doubt this is unpopular amongst the elder fanbase. Before Camilla I might have argued against you, but now...

33 minutes ago, Zepler said:

- Heroes shouldn't have become this popular. I have a bad feeling this is going to alter the series for the ill. I'm also not a fan of the power creeps and the unbalanced character tier that the game threw at us. In most system games, everyone was pretty balanced, at you could pretty much use everyone. Heroes, only certain units have those powers. (Also, the game needs to stop praising certain characters in Awakening and Fates.)

I think Heroes is overall doing what it was originally supposed to do - get more people interested in Fire Emblem. For the average layman who only knows about it thanks to Smash Bros., spending money on their main's game is a risky move at best, and Heroes allows them a free look into the basics of Fire Emblem, letting them see if they would like the bigger dose of strategy the core games provide. I know I would have given it a shot before trying Awakening if it had been out when I was looking into Lucina and Robin. I agree the Awakening/Fates focus does need to stop, though, it's getting a touch ridiculous.

33 minutes ago, Zepler said:

- Marth deserve more respect. Look, he may be a 'bland' lord to some, but he started the franchise. He has an interesting backstory, and he is somebody people can look up to. A real Hero-King, perhaps. But I feel like he is just needs to be more up there and talked about.

The difficulty here is that non-Japanese players only have access to Marth in:
- Smash Bros., where he doesn't speak English and is just 'that weird Japanese swordsman with the BS range' to most people;
- Shadow Dragon, the remake that's probably the absolute worst Fire Emblem to start playing the series on and is generally disliked among much of the newer part of the fanbase, that also has minimal dialogue and thus expounds on character personality maybe three times total(and good luck struggling far enough into the game to find those three times if this is your first Fire Emblem);
- Awakening, where you find out Merth isn't actually Marth, just Lucina, and then only have access to the SpotPass and DLC Marth Einherjar, which provide almost no look into his actual character;
- Fates, where you have to find a Marth Amiibo before you can even access this option, and then only get minimal dialogue from him;
- Heroes, where he was kind of meh at the very beginning since Lucina just did his job better and hasn't been upgraded or given recognition/alternate versions since(we're still waiting on a Weapon Refinement for Falchion that will just end up benefiting Lucina too and thus defeat the point), not to mention Heroes isn't exactly focused on developing any characters besides the Heroes-exclusive ones;
- Warriors, where you kind of just end up wondering who the heck this fencing guy is because the game itself is more focused on Awakening and Fates so you end up confused by all the Shadow Dragon characters(for example, one comment I heard from a friend who never played SD was 'I thought Tiki had bigger boobs than that…what happened?').

Hopefully you see the reason fans don't really find him the most interesting of Lord characters. Personally, I think if they keep the Echoes idea going they ought to eschew the route most people are crying for(Re:Elibe and Re:Jugdral) and redo Shadow Dragon to be actually approachable by the masses, especially considering a hard copy of Shadow Dragon is surprisingly pricey for its supposed lack of love.

33 minutes ago, Zepler said:

- We need Avatar units, but not in major roles. I like the concept fitting 'you' into the game. (Awakening sorta did that.) However, I don't want another 'Corrin' incident, because that was a disaster. Simple, avatar units, but not a major character. 

Have you played Blazing Sword? It's just called Fire Emblem for the international release, but I think you'd like Marc. Hopefully they expand on his concept if we get a Re:Elibe.

Edited by SoulWeaver
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1 hour ago, Zepler said:

- We need Avatar units, but not in major roles. I like the concept fitting 'you' into the game. (Awakening sorta did that.) However, I don't want another 'Corrin' incident, because that was a disaster. Simple, avatar units, but not a major character. 

The real problem with the Avatar is Intelligent Systems's writers, who have consistently sacrificed proper development for the characters who matter most in favor of player pandering.  I think most complaints about the Avatar characters being Mary Sues (mostly Kris and Corrin) can be narrowed down to IS being afraid to portray the player's stand-in as an actual flawed human being and hurting their pwecious wittle feewings.

It's sad, really.  The Avatar is a great concept that I wouldn't mind seeing more of if IS knew how to write them well.

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4 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

…I'm trying to figure out if you're joking. Are you trying to start a fight? I assure you, we're all quite capable of verbally beating each other up without stuff like this getting involved.

Also my RoyBoy pride is involved fight me

Lol, my bad. It seems that I had forgotten to type FE newcomers on the first line. However, regarding the other options I was being totally serious

Edited by Ace Pelleas
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3 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The real problem with the Avatar is Intelligent Systems's writers, who have consistently sacrificed proper development for the characters who matter most in favor of player pandering.  I think most complaints about the Avatar characters being Mary Sues (mostly Kris and Corrin) can be narrowed down to IS being afraid to portray the player's stand-in as an actual flawed human being and hurting their pwecious wittle feewings.

It's sad, really.  The Avatar is a great concept that I wouldn't mind seeing more of if IS knew how to write them well.

Thank you. Again, it's all about the execution. Your character shouldn't be perfect, and you character shouldn't be treated like god. It's like every Isekai anime cliche ever, which you know, the main character is so great that everyone adores him. Simple, I just want an avatar character who is there like every other unit, and doesn't get the spotlight through the whole story, and everyone wants to hover around them.

4 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Have you played Blazing Sword? It's just called Fire Emblem for the international release, but I think you'd like Marc. Hopefully they expand on his concept if we get a Re:Elibe.

That would be a good idea. I remember Marc having a role in the story, while little,  it was still enough to satisfy me. The main spotlight there was Hector, Lyn and Eliwood anyways. xD But I would love to see a Blazing Sword remake! (The mechanics are outdated...)

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19 hours ago, Ace Pelleas said:

Lol, my bad. It seems that I had forgotten to type FE newcomers on the first line. However, regarding the other options I was being totally serious

Then I'm afraid we must duel for option 2 - as I said before, my RoyBoy pride is on the line.

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I don't like Fjorm. There's something about her that I don't like in the slightest.

for that matter, Book 2 looks like it's going to be weaker than Book 1. Veronica and Bruno were much more interesting than these new people.

Memes should not even be considered in something such as CYL. I swear if a character like Reinhardt skyrockets to the top after this new poll...

People exaggerate how attached to the plains Lyn is, she just doesn't come across as such.

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On 1/19/2018 at 3:40 AM, Zepler said:

- Heroes shouldn't have become this popular. I have a bad feeling this is going to alter the series for the ill.

How would it negatively effect the series?

3 hours ago, Lau said:

Memes should not even be considered in something such as CYL. I swear if a character like Reinhardt skyrockets to the top after this new poll...

Reinhardt scoring higher could make sense because he's a good unit. When Oliver wins a CYL event, then we can call shenanigans.

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5 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Then I'm afraid we must duel for option 2 - as I said before, my RoyBoy pride is on the line.

If fe had drastic changes on his moveset I would be ok with him, but then there's Ganondorf.... which is a clone from a character of a different franchise. I really doubt having any changes on either char

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9 hours ago, Lau said:

I don't like Fjorm. There's something about her that I don't like in the slightest.

for that matter, Book 2 looks like it's going to be weaker than Book 1. Veronica and Bruno were much more interesting than these new people.

Is this really fair though? Book 2 is still very new and Fjorm herself hasn't had a lot of screentime. Whereas the Askr Trio has had, what, 13 Chapters and [insert number of paralouges here because i forgot] of screentime and character development, Fjrom has only had three chapters, technically two because she doesn't appear in Ch.1 Book 2 until the last map of Ch.1. I will say, i don't like how they made Surtr another Garon in the sense that he clearly looks obviously evil but that's just me.

On 1/18/2018 at 1:40 PM, Zepler said:

I swear most of the Heroes population is people who like anime and want to see characters that are anime. 

You say it like it's a bad thing...

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14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You say it like it's a bad thing...

I'd say it's a bad thing.

Some anime is so good it's hard to compare to virtually anything else. Most anime is so bad that I am ashamed ever having to admit that I actually manage to occasionally enjoy anime.

So the more FE is like anime, the lower the bar is. I'd take a million generic FEs over what we get out of the post-FFX JRPGs that like to take inspiration from anime.

Edited by Slumber
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4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

So the more FE is like anime, the lower the bar is.

This is where i disagree because being anime =/= having bad writing. Yes, Fates was garbage from a narrative standpoint but that's probably the lowest the series will go narratively unless FE16 really fucks up in it's writing. Likewise, not being anime =/= having good writing. 

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On 18-01-2018 at 3:40 PM, Zepler said:

- The series is becoming more anime and fanservice-y by the minute. I swear most of the Heroes population is people who like anime and want to see characters that are anime.

The series has always been aimed at the anime crowd even back in the Famicom days. You could make comparisons from the early games to stuff like Saint Seiya and other 80s and 90s anime and you could definitely see them.

The reason why the series has become more fanservicey is because anime in general has become more like that.

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12 minutes ago, Armagon said:

This is where i disagree because being anime =/= having bad writing. Yes, Fates was garbage from a narrative standpoint but that's probably the lowest the series will go narratively unless FE16 really fucks up in it's writing. Likewise, not being anime =/= having good writing. 

To be fair, a lot of anime cliches ding "Bad writing" in my head.

Yeah, you could make an anime inspired game and have good writing, I guess the problem is more being derivative. Say what you will about Metal Gear Solid's writing, but it is anime as all hell, and it manages to avoid a lot of traps you see out of "anime" simply because it doesn't feel as derivative with how it takes those elements.

Similarly, of the Xeno games(Since I know you're a fan), Gears is my favorite writing-wise, but it's still hella anime. It just feels like it's relying the least on overt cliches(Or at the very least, it felt like it did a better  job of carving its own identity), while it felt more like the Saga and the Blade games leaned more on more common anime crutches. Not particularly in a bad way in those cases, it just felt more noticeable, though there were moments from the Saga and Xenoblade 1(Didn't bother with X or 2) that made me go "Goddammit anime".

I can only take so much of things like "Dumb excitable protagonist who can't social cues but loves his friends is the chosen one", because it's something I've really never liked and it has been done to death. And the dozen or so other modern anime archetypes that get aped to hell and back also make me roll my eyes. It feels like a lot of writers use those archetypes not because they have anything interesting to do with them, but because it's all they know how to write. Unless you're doing deconstruction or analyzing those kinds of characters like what Hunter x Hunter does, it's really hard for me to like anything with those kinds of anime tropes.

Edited by Slumber
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On 1/18/2018 at 9:49 AM, Ace Pelleas said:

So, once again, let's start:

1- We don't need any FE newcomer for the next Smash;

2- Roy, Corrin and Lucina should be removed from Smash;

3- Exclusive skills(Heroes) were the worst idea possible;

4- The Last Promise is best FE.

What would removing characters from Smash accomplish in this day and age? They aren't even OP (to my knowledge?), and I assume their assets could easily get reused with how Smash is made compared to other fighting games and the decreasing room for a quality jump. Trying to get your logic here.

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8 hours ago, NoirCore said:

What would removing characters from Smash accomplish in this day and age? They aren't even OP (to my knowledge?), and I assume their assets could easily get reused with how Smash is made compared to other fighting games and the decreasing room for a quality jump. Trying to get your logic here.

Lucina and Roy are clones, and I would also add Dark Pit and Doctor Mario to this list. Smash needs more original characters and some revamp the movesets of character such as Lucas, Ganon and Falco. Not every single move needs to be changed, but having the same specials with different effects is kinda underwhelming. Corrin is just another random FE character and we'll probably get more newcomers the next mash game, which is kinda sad when we only have 2 DK characters, 4 Zelda characters and 3 Kirby characters. But then there 6 FE caharacters, almot as big as Mario's

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29 minutes ago, Ace Pelleas said:

Lucina and Roy are clones, and I would also add Dark Pit and Doctor Mario to this list. Smash needs more original characters and some revamp the movesets of character such as Lucas, Ganon and Falco. Not every single move needs to be changed, but having the same specials with different effects is kinda underwhelming. Corrin is just another random FE character and we'll probably get more newcomers the next mash game, which is kinda sad when we only have 2 DK characters, 4 Zelda characters and 3 Kirby characters. But then there 6 FE caharacters, almot as big as Mario's

1. Clones don't take nearly as much effort as full characters.  Cutting clones in favor of "real characters" doesn't work.  During Melee's dev time, the six clones took as much time as it would take to make one wholly new fighter.  They're quick, last minute additions to make more people happy.

2. SSB4 Roy has similar cloniness levels to Lucas/Ganon/Falco, he's not a full clone like Lucina, Dr. Mario and Pittoo.  

Edited by Glaceon Mage
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I don't like the children mechanic in Awakening or Fates. I liked the supports, but I felt like I needed to get everyone an S support because the children are so good and really quickly outclass their parents. It just felt like I couldn't just enjoy the strategy because I also had to micromanage supports to get children, ESPECIALLY in Conquest. In Awakening it was not too bad, but in Conquest it was unbearable to me.

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