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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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On 9/28/2019 at 3:41 PM, Mylady said:

I thought Conquest was known for having the best maps? Fates is trashed for it's story, not gameplay

Birthright maps were lame, Revelation was too gimmicky at best. Conquest has a good balance of all the maps. And honestly are the most memorable.

For my unpopular opinion....I guess I want to say that there is now very little reason for adding classic mode at this point. 

I get that it creates tension in the sense that keeping your units alive is critical and you can't lose important units whom you will want to use later on. But the majority of gamers at this point are just going for casual and are trying to play it strategically as much as possible. And with the mila's turnwheel mechanic likely to be added in future games, there is very little incentive for classic to exist since you can like always rewind time even from first.

I feel like for classic to be relevant, they would have to do something in games like Valkyria Chronicles where if a unit is captured, gets killed and there is no reverse for that. Or if they can do it like Final Fantasy Tactics where you have little time to revive damaged units before they die.

Of course, the option can exist if they can tweak the turnwheel or decide to not implement it in future but for as long as they do so, Classic is becoming less meaningful.

 

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39 minutes ago, Harvey said:

For my unpopular opinion....I guess I want to say that there is now very little reason for adding classic mode at this point. 

I get that it creates tension in the sense that keeping your units alive is critical and you can't lose important units whom you will want to use later on. But the majority of gamers at this point are just going for casual and are trying to play it strategically as much as possible. And with the mila's turnwheel mechanic likely to be added in future games, there is very little incentive for classic to exist since you can like always rewind time even from first.

As someone who is also against Casual and the Turn Wheel, I think that the difficulty levels could be called:
· "Casual": now a synonym of both the Normal difficulty level and Casual mode.
· "Classic": now a synonym of both Hard difficulty level and permanent death.
· "Lunatic": now a synonym of both Lunatic difficulty level and permanent death.

This way, new players (and cowards, ha!) would enjoy both the benefits of the easiest difficulty level and immortal units, while seasoned players would go for Classic or Lunatic. No one would complain that Casual is too easy, and the game's mechanics could all be balanced against Classic and Lunatic, where a great challenge is an asset and never a complain.

I am still unsure about the Turn Wheel, which I never use. At least I would limit it to one use per chapter, cumulative to a maximum of three uses when not needed.

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1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Birthright maps were lame, Revelation was too gimmicky at best. Conquest has a good balance of all the maps. And honestly are the most memorable.

For my unpopular opinion....I guess I want to say that there is now very little reason for adding classic mode at this point. 

I get that it creates tension in the sense that keeping your units alive is critical and you can't lose important units whom you will want to use later on. But the majority of gamers at this point are just going for casual and are trying to play it strategically as much as possible. And with the mila's turnwheel mechanic likely to be added in future games, there is very little incentive for classic to exist since you can like always rewind time even from first.

I feel like for classic to be relevant, they would have to do something in games like Valkyria Chronicles where if a unit is captured, gets killed and there is no reverse for that. Or if they can do it like Final Fantasy Tactics where you have little time to revive damaged units before they die.

Of course, the option can exist if they can tweak the turnwheel or decide to not implement it in future but for as long as they do so, Classic is becoming less meaningful.

 

I think the line between Casual and Classic extends to more than just permadeath; you also have DLC, clear bonuses, renown, etc. Those barely existed in games prior to FE12, with the only notable instance being transfer bonuses in FE10, and they change the game way more than the option to disable permanent death does.

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I would add two consideration.

1) if you remove permadeath you can make enemies far more dangerous because the unfair bullshit does not cause a reset. 

2) permadeath whitout ironman does not make much sense because it only force a reset. A game over on any death would serve the exact same purpose.

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But that's the thing. Permadeath has been a STAPLE of FE. I think I only ever beat 1 game on Casual mode, being Birthright-- and that was my first ever FE game cleared. I wanted to go back and do Awakening Casual so I could recruit everyone, but I eventually gave up, as I could now be more reckless with army placement.
Classic mode stays.

Another unpopular opinion? The Camus archetype is stupid. It started somewhat nobly, with Camus himself and Eldigan, got conditional with Lloyd and Selena, then later in Awakening (with Mustafa) and Fates (with Xander, BR version) it just feels forced.

I get that we're supposed to feel sympathy for these characters. I just didn't in Xander's case. And since Birthright is the game that got me hooked on the series... That's a bad way to introduce one of the series' most famous archetypes.

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1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

I think the line between Casual and Classic extends to more than just permadeath; you also have DLC, clear bonuses, renown, etc. Those barely existed in games prior to FE12, with the only notable instance being transfer bonuses in FE10, and they change the game way more than the option to disable permanent death does.

 

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

I would add two consideration.

1) if you remove permadeath you can make enemies far more dangerous because the unfair bullshit does not cause a reset. 

2) permadeath whitout ironman does not make much sense because it only force a reset. A game over on any death would serve the exact same purpose.


Both of you have fair points worth considering.
DLC, path bonuses (or other extra items that increase statistics permanently), New Game Plus bonuses... may all indeed break the game more than Casual Mode would.
I partially agree that resetting on every death may equal a Game Over in most cases, but even then, I would add a prompt on every death asking the user whether they want to continue with the chapter or reset. So that one could still let go certain units or test new approaches without restarting.

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Honestly I think Conquest had the right idea with DLC but should have taken it further, where in addition to not giving experience, it also shouldn't give you any free shit as rewards for these bonus maps, but merely the opportunity to buy them with your resources. Dread scrolls and ebon wings should have been made limited stock items in the shop rather than free items.

Adding in a wider variety of dlc items is fine, but they can't just be given to the player for free, they have to earn them in-game.

Edited by Alastor15243
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2 hours ago, starburst said:

As someone who is also against Casual and the Turn Wheel, I think that the difficulty levels could be called:
· "Casual": now a synonym of both the Normal difficulty level and Casual mode.
· "Classic": now a synonym of both Hard difficulty level and permanent death.
· "Lunatic": now a synonym of both Lunatic difficulty level and permanent death.

This way, new players (and cowards, ha!) would enjoy both the benefits of the easiest difficulty level and immortal units, while seasoned players would go for Classic or Lunatic. No one would complain that Casual is too easy, and the game's mechanics could all be balanced against Classic and Lunatic, where a great challenge is an asset and never a complain.

I am still unsure about the Turn Wheel, which I never use. At least I would limit it to one use per chapter, cumulative to a maximum of three uses when not needed.

I think you are missing the point. Even if you go with classic mode, what is going to stop you from grinding as much as you want until your units are powerful enough for you to cheese the rest of the game? And even if the next game tries to be another conquest, they will most likely use DLC or amiibo as means of grinding making it easy win.

There is no reason for classic to exist anymore unless you would want units to be dead. I'd argue that casual is the same as classic because you want your good units to deal a particular thing and if they are gone, your other units will have to deal with them and that can be tough.

So really..classic just seems pointless and is more like what Fire Emblem was back then. If at all classic must happen, then they should do it like in Final Fantasy Tactics where you have a certain limit on rescuing or reviving a unit if they are koed or they die.

Or the part where Thracia added was that enemies could capture your units and you could save them very late. So they could tweak it that if you don't save your units in time, you lose them. This makes it that you don't need to choose casual or classic since you experience the same thing.

 

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1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I think you are missing the point. Even if you go with classic mode, what is going to stop you from grinding as much as you want until your units are powerful enough for you to cheese the rest of the game? And even if the next game tries to be another conquest, they will most likely use DLC or amiibo as means of grinding making it easy win.

How am I the one missing the point when you did not mention or allude grinding or DLC abuse in your previous message? Yours is a twisted logic.

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@Harvey What exactly are you trying to argue, that because the games have exploits they should just give up entirely on difficulty? Because that's what getting rid of Classic mode would do. Classic mode is what the game is balanced around. Whether you're playing ironman or resetting after every death or some mix, the fact that you can't proceed to the next level without consequences unless you can beat the current one with no casualties is the entire foundation upon which the game's difficulty is built. Casual mode is barely even a mode, in that the fail state is so drastically lowered that it might as well not exist. The kind of person who would ever be able to win on Classic is almost guaranteed to never lose Casual ever, the difference between losing one unit and losing every unit is just that vast. Getting rid of Classic mode would make the entire feel of the gameplay entirely different. Even if they rebalance gameplay around total party wipes, we would still lose the very core feel of the franchise.

Edited by Alastor15243
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On 9/26/2019 at 6:25 PM, NekoKnight said:

If this is an unpopular opinion, it shouldn't be.

When I saw her character before the game was released, I thought she'd be that boring normal friend to Mercedes but she became one of my favorites. She's hard working, goofy in all the right ways, has an interesting dynamic with her father, and to really sell the whole character, she has some of the most natural voice acting in the game, in my humble opinion. She's just an all around charming person that doesn't need an absurd character gimmick to construct a personality around.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Sorry for the late reply. Didn't even realize someone quoted me here until I checked.

14 hours ago, GlitchGabe said:

Another unpopular opinion? The Camus archetype is stupid. It started somewhat nobly, with Camus himself and Eldigan, got conditional with Lloyd and Selena, then later in Awakening (with Mustafa) and Fates (with Xander, BR version) it just feels forced.

I feel this way purely because it's characters usually act on the principles "honor before reason" as well as "loyalty > common sense" and follow orders without question, three things I disagree with on such a level that my entire being just refuses to see those types of characters (and people) as anything but idiots, thus making it hard for me to sympathize with them.

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16 hours ago, GlitchGabe said:

Another unpopular opinion? The Camus archetype is stupid. It started somewhat nobly, with Camus himself and Eldigan, got conditional with Lloyd and Selena, then later in Awakening (with Mustafa) and Fates (with Xander, BR version) it just feels forced.

I get that we're supposed to feel sympathy for these characters. I just didn't in Xander's case. And since Birthright is the game that got me hooked on the series... That's a bad way to introduce one of the series' most famous archetypes.

You know what’s hilarious about the Camus archetype? Camus didn’t even die and went on to help Marth’s army in a sequel 

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Celica's entire existence has been only to make Alm better and tbh she deserves better

Lyn wasn't treated like that nor was Micaiah or Edelgard

I mean she freaking gives him his promotion 

SHE DESERVES MORE!!!

I mean in her ending she marries Alm and becomes the forgotten queen of Valentia 

and in the future Valentia is called Valm not Velica after the great Hero- King Alm

fuck Alm and his shitty wannabe secretly a prince ass off a cliff...(I really don't like Alm he's a complete bitch)

Edited by EdelgardHresvelgTargaryen
I needed to release my hatred of alm
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A lot of Camus members kinda come off as terrible people. They seem more in love with the idea of them loving their country rather than them actually being in love with their country, and to maintain this self image they tend to do things they know are deeply harmful to their countries. I don't think Camus or Eldigan had any illusions about what their masters would bring on their country yet they were resolved to let it happen anyway. 

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1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

I feel this way purely because it's characters usually act on the principles "honor before reason" as well as "loyalty > common sense" and follow orders without question, three things I disagree with on such a level that my entire being just refuses to see those types of characters (and people) as anything but idiots, thus making it hard for me to sympathize with them.

It’s certainly a tough archetype to do well at least in regards to how FE typically chooses to present its narrative as a sort of omniscient visual novel perspective. I think the main problem with the archetype is that the narrative tries way too hard to present them as in the wrong and forgets to really make their loyalty as understandable as it needs to be. Cause I’ve seen characters like this done exceptionally well in other stories and media(Haku and Kimimaro from Naruto being the most prominent examples that come to mind) and the reason they worked is because Kishimoto took great care in really explaining why they do the things that they do in a very clear and understandable way(i.e. lots of flashbacks)

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I am increasingly aligned to the opinion of Itsuki being my favourite protagonist now. Because, for the character interactions and story involvement, I think they actually work better in Tokyo Mirage Session than FE did. Especially, Itsuki seem to actually backs off every once in a while and let Tsubasa and Kiria shine unlike what usually seem to happens with a number of FE Lords in the cutscenes. Instead of how Alm (*1), Ike (*2), Corrin (*3) or Roy (*4) ends up hogging the spotlight -especially against the female lords, Itsuki in TMSFE feels (and probably is intended to be) more like Minako or Yu from Persona 3-4, when they too back off to let the rest of SEES and IT members contribute to the main plot. It feels that both TMSFE and Persona 3/4 unambiguously portrays the very fact that Itsuki, Minako and Yu need their companions, if they themselves are to ultimately save the day. (Ironic, considering how FE is also supposed to be about strategy and teamwork.)

I'm also glad that TMSFE turned out to be what it was. If it was as grimdark as mainline SMT, I would have simply declared Atlus as just simply not my taste. Instead, TMSFE introduced me to Persona 4, which introduced me to Persona 3, in turn introducing me to other games Atlus made and/or published like Radiant Historia and Vanillaware's Odin Sphere...

Roy, however, still remains a close second, as him resulting in a Gary Stu in the plot at least makes some sense here - it is clear that he did his homework in Sun Tzu and Clausewitz.

*1 - Hey, wait until Celica's done her turn!
*2 - Hey, wait until Micaiah's/Elincia's done her turn! Stop hogging the spotlight!
*3 - OMG! NOO! You failed politics forever!!!
*4 - Actually, I'll let you off. At least I know you did your homework in Sun Tzu and Clausewitz.

Edited by henrymidfields
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On the topic of Camus, Xander imo is one of the least bad of them. 

Things is, father-son relationships are complicated as hell, and is very possible that a child, while knowing very well that his father is evil, just can't bring himself to act againist him, sometimes for his whole life. Story Xander and Support Xander are not different people, Support Xander is just how he is far from Garon, while Story Xander is him at his weakest emotionally.

Camus or Eldigan lack such an emotional connection whit the tyrant they serve, and Reinhard is again not too bad because of how he relate to Ishtar. And the Goddess of Thunder herself is even better than Xander because on top of her relationship whit Julius, she also has a fair reason to hate Celice army because they slaughtered her family, including the non evil people. 

The thing whit Xander is that they try to highlight his strenght and courage when he is really defined by a lack of those. That why in the end he has a complete breakdown and cannot even kill himself whitout having Corrin do the dirty work. If the gane recognezed his flaws and vulnerabilities better, he would be one of the best FE characters.

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6 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

@Harvey What exactly are you trying to argue, that because the games have exploits they should just give up entirely on difficulty? Because that's what getting rid of Classic mode would do. Classic mode is what the game is balanced around. Whether you're playing ironman or resetting after every death or some mix, the fact that you can't proceed to the next level without consequences unless you can beat the current one with no casualties is the entire foundation upon which the game's difficulty is built. Casual mode is barely even a mode, in that the fail state is so drastically lowered that it might as well not exist. The kind of person who would ever be able to win on Classic is almost guaranteed to never lose Casual ever, the difference between losing one unit and losing every unit is just that vast. Getting rid of Classic mode would make the entire feel of the gameplay entirely different. Even if they rebalance gameplay around total party wipes, we would still lose the very core feel of the franchise.

I'm not saying that they should give up on Classic mode. I'm saying that its implementation is pointless with the exploits regarding grinding etc. Classic at this point just does not matter anymore because of how its really easy to make your units strong and with the turnwheel around unless they tweak it so that it stays relevant.

I always go casual because going to classic is pointless when you can like grind your units to make them so powerful that it hardly matters. The only incentive for classic to exist is to appeal to the fans and nothing else.

And Casual mode does have benefits such as mid saves and being able to use units in the next chapter. Its also less tedious especially when dealing with long maps. But I do try to play it as "classic" as possible until it comes to the point that I have no choice but to rewind time or reset the game again.

Classic mode has to be changed instead of being what it is now so that casual mode need not exist. 

 

Edited by Harvey
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20 hours ago, GlitchGabe said:

But that's the thing. Permadeath has been a STAPLE of FE. I think I only ever beat 1 game on Casual mode, being Birthright-- and that was my first ever FE game cleared. I wanted to go back and do Awakening Casual so I could recruit everyone, but I eventually gave up, as I could now be more reckless with army placement.
Classic mode stays.

Another unpopular opinion? The Camus archetype is stupid. It started somewhat nobly, with Camus himself and Eldigan, got conditional with Lloyd and Selena, then later in Awakening (with Mustafa) and Fates (with Xander, BR version) it just feels forced.

I get that we're supposed to feel sympathy for these characters. I just didn't in Xander's case. And since Birthright is the game that got me hooked on the series... That's a bad way to introduce one of the series' most famous archetypes.

Mustafa is not a Camus, he’s just a sympathetic minor boss forced to fight, not out of loyalty, but out of fear of his superior.

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19 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Classic mode has to be changed instead of being what it is now so that casual mode need not exist. 

 

Your argument is really confusing, so I want to zero in on this and make sure I'm not putting words in your mouth:

What exactly do you want changed about classic so you don't need casual mode anymore?

Edited by Alastor15243
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I guess what we're trying to tell you is this- Classic mode is there because it's the way it's always been. Now, I feel like Casual Mode should never have been added, but then again I don't think FE would have half of its fans if it weren't. Plus, I prefer the stress that comes when a unit is put in danger to "so I'll lose them, they'll just come back".

The Turnwheel DEFINITELY should never have been a thing though. Now that Divine Pulse (i;e basically the Turnwheel) is in 3H, the game is barely challenging. I'll probably play my first run of Echoes (because I don't have it yet) ignoring the Turnwheel altogether, because IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Actually, I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. Turnwheel ruins the challenge, we already knew that.

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15 minutes ago, GlitchGabe said:

I guess what we're trying to tell you is this- Classic mode is there because it's the way it's always been. Now, I feel like Casual Mode should never have been added, but then again I don't think FE would have half of its fans if it weren't. Plus, I prefer the stress that comes when a unit is put in danger to "so I'll lose them, they'll just come back".

The Turnwheel DEFINITELY should never have been a thing though. Now that Divine Pulse (i;e basically the Turnwheel) is in 3H, the game is barely challenging. I'll probably play my first run of Echoes (because I don't have it yet) ignoring the Turnwheel altogether, because IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Actually, I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. Turnwheel ruins the challenge, we already knew that.

The idea that the turnwheel shouldn't have been added is actually extremely upopular basically everywhere in the FE fandom as far as I can tell, and saying as much is a first class one-way ticket to getting called a toxic elitist. Almost nobody agrees with me that its very presence damages game design and that it's a quick fix for game design wounds the games allow to fester because they just give more casual players the ability to god mode past them rather than fixing them for everyone.

Personally I suspect it's gonna bite the fanbase in the ass eventually. Because when the fanbase becomes comfortable rewinding from every setback, they cease to care whether what killed them was fair or not. 3 houses' map design philosophy is a mess. Probably one of the worst-designed games in the series. But thanks to the divine pulse, it seems like almost nobody notices or cares. It's entirely possible it's going to get even worse before there's any major blowback that IS would ever hear.

Edited by Alastor15243
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Here's my thought- if the inevitable FE4 remake (you know one is going to happen sooner or later) doesn't have a Divine Pulse mechanic- which, honestly, there's no reason to include it there anyway-  the fans who have grown to need it are going to lose EVERYONE.

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7 minutes ago, GlitchGabe said:

Here's my thought- if the inevitable FE4 remake (you know one is going to happen sooner or later) doesn't have a Divine Pulse mechanic- which, honestly, there's no reason to include it there anyway-  the fans who have grown to need it are going to lose EVERYONE.

I've been concerned about that mostly from a story perspective. FE4 is such a tragic story that adding in a rewind mechanic and making it canon would have to be done very, very carefully to make sure it doesn't turn Sigurd into a distractingly hilarious idiot for not using it to save him from any of the tragedies that plague his life. And given that their solution to making bad things happen to Byleth was to make him just outright forget he can use it 80% of the time, my hopes aren't high.

My ideal best case scenario with the Turnwheel in FE4 is that they go the "prophecy, not time travel" route of Echoes, and that canonically Sigurd is just getting warnings from the future from one of the gods. But then when everything in his life goes horribly wrong anyway, this raises an uncomfortable question when Seliph gets his hands on the turnwheel: should he trust the advice of the god who saw fit to lead his father and everyone he loved to the slaughterhouse? Respect that the gods have a plan for him and follow it in faith?

Or should he smash the thing, refuse to take the traitorous god's "advice", and carve out his own destiny without the gods' "help"?

Edited by Alastor15243
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