Jump to content

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Even if that would make sense eventually, it seems idiotic to experiment on the very limited and very precious royal families first, especially when the peasants are far worse guarded, far more easily missed, and in far more plentiful supply, unless it's actually the case that only people who have crests can survive getting a crest implanted.

They would need people with natural crests as a control to compare to artifical crests. Although the royal family isn't a great choice when you have people like Lysithea who should provide the same result with less potential to backfire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 9.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

22 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. If your opinion is something about the plot or character writing in Fates, and that a component of it was bad, odds are that it's a popular opinion. 

For clarity, that wasn't intended to be an unpopular opinion, just a response to the existing conversation at the time.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Even if that would make sense eventually, it seems idiotic to experiment on the very limited and very precious royal families first, especially when the peasants are far worse guarded, far more easily missed, and in far more plentiful supply, unless it's actually the case that only people who have crests can survive getting a crest implanted.

They didn't. They experimented on Lysithea's family first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

For clarity, that wasn't intended to be an unpopular opinion, just a response to the existing conversation at the time.

They didn't. They experimented on Lysithea's family first.

Were they crestless? Because that's what I meant. Wrong word choice, sorry. I was talking about how weird it would be to use rare crested people for dangerous experiments unless they were the only ones who worked, because the crestless are far more plentiful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Were they crestless? Because that's what I meant. Wrong word choice, sorry. I was talking about how weird it would be to use rare crested people for dangerous experiments unless they were the only ones who worked, because the crestless are far more plentiful.

We can't say for sure, though it wouldn't surprise me if they did. We do know that the kidnappings around Garreg Mach had been going on for quite some time prior to Flayn's kidnapping, and the Slitherers must have used those people for something because they aren't around anymore.

Three Houses isn't a game that's inclined to dump information on you that nobody you're in contact with would know or want to tell you (other than that one guy in AM that shows up just to tell Dimitri information he didn't earn, but hey, AM is a bad route). Maybe we'll find out more details when Jeritza gets added to the roster, but I find it unlikely that the Slitherers were just sitting around with their thumbs up their butts before experimenting on the Ordelias and Hresvelgs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

We can't say for sure, though it wouldn't surprise me if they did. We do know that the kidnappings around Garreg Mach had been going on for quite some time prior to Flayn's kidnapping, and the Slitherers must have used those people for something because they aren't around anymore.

Three Houses isn't a game that's inclined to dump information on you that nobody you're in contact with would know or want to tell you (other than that one guy in AM that shows up just to tell Dimitri information he didn't earn, but hey, AM is a bad route). Maybe we'll find out more details when Jeritza gets added to the roster, but I find it unlikely that the Slitherers were just sitting around with their thumbs up their butts before experimenting on the Ordelias and Hresvelgs.

Wait, so Those Who Slither are explicitly responsible for Edelgard's crest experimentation too? That wasn't something those assholes she mentioned running her Empire did? Why the fuck would they even ally with her then? Surely they have to know she's going to eventually turn on them, right? If she has that kind of a chip on her shoulder against them?

Also, hearing AM is apparently bad is... quite worrying, because I was told it was the one that had the most obvious effort put into it compared to the rushed CF and the cloned VW.

Edited by Alastor15243
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Wait, so Those Who Slither are explicitly responsible for Edelgard's crest experimentation too? That wasn't something those assholes she mentioned running her Empire did? Why the fuck would they even ally with her then? Surely they have to know she's going to eventually turn on them, right? If she has that kind of a chip on her shoulder against them?

Also, hearing AM is apparently bad is... quite worrying, because I was told it was the one that had the most obvious effort put into it compared to the rushed CF and the cloned VW.

AM being bad is an unpopular opinion I have. I wouldn't be surprised if you like it, given that you seem to have just completely missed some story details of CF that are crucial to its themes.

Yes, the Slitherers are responsible for experimenting on the Hresvelgs. The Slitherers provided support for the Insurrection, bodysnatched Arundel (with the caveat that he appears to have been a willing supporter of the rebellion prior to being bodysnatched, though that's not quite clear) and installed Aegir as a puppet with the specific purpose of leaving Ionius powerless to stop them from experimenting on his children. Edelgard did not want to work with them for all these reasons and more, and had to be convinced it was the only way by Hubert. Without the initial support of the Slitherers it would be impossible for Edelgard to remove Aegir and secure her own authority.

It's a tenuous alliance, with Edelgard's faction absolutely disgusted with the existence of the Slitherers and the Slitherers seeing Edelgard as an amusing puppet that they will be able to corral eventually. This balance is most clearly seen when the Black Eagles go behind Thales's back to kill Cordelia and Thales responds by nuking the city and a large portion of the imperial army.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

AM being bad is an unpopular opinion I have. I wouldn't be surprised if you like it, given that you seem to have just completely missed some story details of CF that are crucial to its themes.

Yes, the Slitherers are responsible for experimenting on the Hresvelgs. The Slitherers provided support for the Insurrection, bodysnatched Arundel (with the caveat that he appears to have been a willing supporter of the rebellion prior to being bodysnatched, though that's not quite clear) and installed Aegir as a puppet with the specific purpose of leaving Ionius powerless to stop them from experimenting on his children. Edelgard did not want to work with them for all these reasons and more, and had to be convinced it was the only way by Hubert. Without the initial support of the Slitherers it would be impossible for Edelgard to remove Aegir and secure her own authority.

It's a tenuous alliance, with Edelgard's faction absolutely disgusted with the existence of the Slitherers and the Slitherers seeing Edelgard as an amusing puppet that they will be able to corral eventually. This balance is most clearly seen when the Black Eagles go behind Thales's back to kill Cordelia and Thales responds by nuking the city and a large portion of the imperial army.

I played the entire main plot, and paid attention. How the hell did I miss all of that? That was all said in CF? Is all of that optional story content or something? Stuff you have to talk to everyone in the monastery after every mission to understand?

Edited by Alastor15243
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you only played the main plot and skipped the paralogues then yeah, you missed a ton of important information. Did you really not play the Hubert paralogue?

And yeah you... really need to talk to people in the monastery to know everything that's going on. At least talk to the original house members. Do people play JRPG's with exploration mechanics and not talk to everyone?

Wait a minute. Is this why people think Dimitri is all hunky dory after he "gets better" in Azure Moon? Did none of you talk to Dedue???

Edited by Arachnofiend
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

If you only played the main plot and skipped the paralogues then yeah, you missed a ton of important information. Did you really not play the Hubert paralogue?

And yeah you... really need to talk to people in the monastery to know everything that's going on. At least talk to the original house members. Do people play JRPG's with exploration mechanics and not talk to everyone?

I played every paralogue I was given access to. If by the Hubert paralogue you mean the one where you save TWS from wild crest monsters, yes, I did that one, and yes I got that it was a tenuous alliance, but I don't remember Hubert saying he was the one who talked Edelgard into it, or that they're the ones who experimented on Edelgard.

Is that normal practice with JRPGs like this? Giving the player homework? Taking story information that's absolutely essential to understanding what's going on and making it something the player has to go out of their way to find? Because that sounds like terrible game design to me. The stuff you can miss should be for flavor. Worldbuilding tidbits that are nice to know but which you can miss without significantly ruining your comprehension of what's going on. I shouldn't have been able to miss, say, an explanation of why Edelgard wanted to destroy the church. Which I did, somehow. The fact that the first hint of an explanation from her regarding why she was doing what she was doing was given after siding with her was annoying to no end. All I got from her supports was that she hated the people in the Empire who killed her siblings, and that she was going to take out the trash when she rose to power. I never saw anything whatsoever to indicate her actual top priority was to destroy the church and to side with the people who killed her siblings to do it. I was completely confused for about half of part 2 and struggled to get invested at all. And I don't think that's on me. I think that's on the game for not being judicious about what story information they made optional and what they made mandatory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't think it's that much of an ask to try to see all of the dialogue. Hell, there was plenty of dialogue in prior FE games that you had to completely go out of your way to find too - a proper culmination to the Lyn/Bandits storyline requires you to get her to an A support with Wallace of all people. And that was a game where you could only get one A support per campaign.

Edited by Arachnofiend
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

I really don't think it's that much of an ask to try to see all of the dialogue.

Doing free roam sessions between monthly missions already takes like half an hour to an hour and a half total depending on what you're doing, and that's without seeking out every single character in the whole building to talk to. If I take additional time out to do that, it should be because I enjoy talking to them, something the developers can't possibly assume everyone who's going to play it will. It should not be because I have to in order to have any idea what's going on.

9 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

Hell, there was plenty of dialogue in prior FE games that you had to completely go out of your way to find too - a proper culmination to the Lyn/Bandits storyline requires you to get her to an A support with Wallace of all people. And that was a game where you could only get one A support per campaign.

Yes, but the story never references the Taliver bandits again after the beginning of Lyn's story. That entire story arc between Lyn and Wallace is flavor. It's awesome and totally worth checking out, but if you miss it, it doesn't remotely detract from your experience of the main game's story.

Edited by Alastor15243
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the developers don't put any important information in those monastery conversations then suddenly they're a lot less interesting

I'm not gonna say Crimson Flower was perfect, because it clearly had chapters cannibalized by the "need" to create a coward's route, but this conversation has clarified to me why people are so critical of it while they sing such praises for Dimitri's character arc in AM so

I guess that was worth doing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I played the entire main plot, and paid attention. How the hell did I miss all of that? That was all said in CF? Is all of that optional story content or something? Stuff you have to talk to everyone in the monastery after every mission to understand?

How did you miss that part? It's why a lot of memes exist of her not just killing Thales after she takes over. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

Which part specifically?

Her allying with the person that experimented on her. Because her desire to conquer Fodlan was stronger then anything else. Even saving the continent from Thales or doing her reforms. Dimitri and Claude would have done there own. Even without the war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

Her allying with the person that experimented on her. Because her desire to conquer Fodlan was stronger then anything else. Even saving the continent from Thales or doing her reforms. Dimitri and Claude would have done there own. Even without the war.

It must have been some piece of monastery dialogue I missed.

Edited by Alastor15243
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are many things that are impossible to do before the war... the people that tried to do something to challenge this idea (Lambert) died.

Regardless of if you think Edelgard's was more motivated for her reforms or the reunification of Fodlán; the fact is, the world was in a horrible state to change in peaceful ways.

Edited by Troykv
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not why he was actually killed though. And there wasn't anything that couldn't be changed without a war if you took out the horrible written grey morality destroying evil mole men. Worst antagonists in fe history as they actually ruin the story. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

Her allying with the person that experimented on her. Because her desire to conquer Fodlan was stronger then anything else. Even saving the continent from Thales or doing her reforms. Dimitri and Claude would have done there own. Even without the war.

Her desire to unify* Fodlan. And, no, without the war Claude would have fucked off to Almyra anyway and Dimitri would have probably been assassinated for trying anything in the name of "reform."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, De Geso said:

Her desire to unify* Fodlan. And, no, without the war Claude would have fucked off to Almyra anyway and Dimitri would have probably been assassinated for trying anything in the name of "reform."

No he really wouldn't have been. As the one responsible for both moments of a political figure trying to reform the system where only screwed over by the Slitherers. Yeah Claude would go back to Almyra. But he made sure he used his school year to befriend Dimitri, Edelgard and Byleth. The next rulers of Fodlan and the conveniently Byleth would have been the next pope. As Rhea makes Byleth her successor. Which means peace as Claudes great at making peace treaties. All the next heads to almost every major houses are good people anyway.  Who also conveniently all went to school together. So yeah take out the Slitherers who are litteral responsible for everything bad in the plot. There be zero reason for the war for reforms. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

No he really wouldn't have been. As the one responsible for both moments of a political figure trying to reform the system where only screwed over by the Slitherers. Yeah Claude would go back to Almyra. But he made sure he used his school year to befriend Dimitri, Edelgard and Byleth. The next rulers of Fodlan and the conveniently Byleth would have been the next pope. As Rhea makes Byleth her successor. Which means peace as Claudes great at making peace treaties. All the next heads to almost every major houses are good people anyway.  Who also conveniently all went to school together. So yeah take out the Slitherers who are litteral responsible for everything bad in the plot. There be zero reason for the war for reforms.

If you mean "they don't exist at all,' then yes that's true, but if you mean 'if Edelgard took them out,' then no, that's ridiculous. My point was that Edelgard didn't have the option to 'just kill them all bro lol' because the political situation is more complex than that.

Assuming that Those Who Slither in the Dark exist, Dimitri cannot get anything meaningful done by way of reform before being killed as Lambert was. To say otherwise is pure conjecture that defies what we know from the story.

"Claude is friends with Dimitri, Edelgard, and Byleth" does not excuse that he just bails, never to be heard from again...

You're not being very coherent. I can't really argue with you if you say several, barely connected things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, De Geso said:

If you mean "they don't exist at all,' then yes that's true, but if you mean 'if Edelgard took them out,' then no, that's ridiculous. My point was that Edelgard didn't have the option to 'just kill them all bro lol' because the political situation is more complex than that.

Assuming that Those Who Slither in the Dark exist, Dimitri cannot get anything meaningful done by way of reform before being killed as Lambert was. To say otherwise is pure conjecture that defies what we know from the story.

"Claude is friends with Dimitri, Edelgard, and Byleth" does not excuse that he just bails, never to be heard from again...

You're not being very coherent. I can't really argue with you if you say several, barely connected things.

The slithers need Edelgard has much as she needs them. Whitout her they would not dare to put their head out of the hole. 

Claude is only held back by Fodlan and whitout a war he would just focus on his actual objective. 

As for Dimitri, TWSitD are not nearly as well established in the kingdom as they are in the empire, Cornelia is the only big personality they managed to replace, and Rodrigue is not duke Aegir.  They only could pull off the Duscur massacre because the queen helped them, so unless they can marry off Kronya to Dimitri their chance of assassinating him are not great. And they would not even attempt the assassination whitout the support of an emperor willing to start a war againist Rhea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, De Geso said:

If you mean "they don't exist at all,' then yes that's true, but if you mean 'if Edelgard took them out,' then no, that's ridiculous. My point was that Edelgard didn't have the option to 'just kill them all bro lol' because the political situation is more complex than that.

Assuming that Those Who Slither in the Dark exist, Dimitri cannot get anything meaningful done by way of reform before being killed as Lambert was. To say otherwise is pure conjecture that defies what we know from the story.

"Claude is friends with Dimitri, Edelgard, and Byleth" does not excuse that he just bails, never to be heard from again...

You're not being very coherent. I can't really argue with you if you say several, barely connected things.

No it was Hubert that convinced her working with them was a good idea. The only reason Edelgard worked with them was she wanted there half of the imperial army to conquer Fodlan. After she became emperor and put Aegir under house arrest she didn't need them. She just needed to get rid of the ones at the top to control her goverment and army. She doesn't though because she wants to use them.

It's conjecture to assume the Slitherers would care since Patricia isn't involved anymore. I don't even know why you think otherwise.

Claude goes back to Almyra on every route to become King. An even hints at his real goal of making peace with Fodlan on CF/Am before leaving. 

Edited by Julian Solo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

The slithers need Edelgard has much as she needs them. Whitout her they would not dare to put their head out of the hole. 

Claude is only held back by Fodlan and whitout a war he would just focus on his actual objective. 

As for Dimitri, TWSitD are not nearly as well established in the kingdom as they are in the empire, Cornelia is the only big personality they managed to replace, and Rodrigue is not duke Aegir.  They only could pull off the Duscur massacre because the queen helped them, so unless they can marry off Kronya to Dimitri their chance of assassinating him are not great. And they would not even attempt the assassination whitout the support of an emperor willing to start a war againist Rhea.

Yeah she was the result of like 1200 years of them looking for a perfect dragon slayer. There not doing a thing without her.

Edited by Julian Solo
Oops double post but the mobile view is weird anyway.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm personally sick of those who attack FE as a waifu dating game at all and argue that for any game that does not have it, is gonna bomb.

First of all, Fire Emblem is a Simulation RPG which has elements of simulation between characters. There have always been cases where characters talk or marry one another even in the earlier games. Its not even remotely possible for all units to marry one another as only specific ones can.

Its sickening because they fail to realise the whole point of Fire Emblem which is to keep units alive or train them to be better. Its really scary if the next fire emblem game fails because it had no "waifu" to begin with and fail to realise that it was not that but more than that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...