What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[DefyingFates]

43 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not the biggest Sylvain fan out there but I'd say I certainly like him a good deal. Now Sylvain is most definitely a scumbag towards woman but that's only one of his traits. He's got several good traits too such as the one you mention. They don't wash away the bad but there are noble traits to be found in Sylvain.

I don't think being a scumbag often hurts a character's popularity. Shinon consists almost exclusively of vile traits. He's bitter, incredibly petty, disloyal, selfish a racist and a drunk but people still really like him. Sometimes a bad person can be interesting to have on screen.

Sylvain isn't as cartoony of an asshole as Shinon but its clear he can be deliberately malicious when he wants to. What prevents me from holding it against him too much is that its interesting. Sylvain very deliberately strives to be the worst version of himself due to past trauma, a trauma that stems from the sort of world Fodlan is. I personally don't find it sympathetic but I do find it interesting to see. It also helps that the game doesn't shy away from the fact that Sylvain's behavior can be pretty reprehensible. Sometimes its played for laughs like with Manuela but even then the game still suggests its not cute and endearing but just pathetic.  

So it comes down to whether the good outweighs the bad for each person? That's fair. In my case then, I guess I just can't overlook the bad because, as you said, he's doing it deliberately and never accepts responsibility for it. For example, people joke about Ingrid being racist, but she at least acknowledges that she's being irrational and tries to fix it, even apologising to Dedue in their Supports. Sylvain never does that.

As for the stuff in bold, I don't think he ever pays for it. Byleth calls him a jerk, but whenever anyone else calls him out on it it's usually played for laughs (e.g. with Ingrid) or treated as a slap on the wrist (e.g. with Felix)...assuming Sylvain doesn't just use it as an excuse to segue into his brother complex or fear/ hatred of women. Are there any Supports where he's properly chewed out for it?

34 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Though Shinon is backed by good gameplay performance in RD, if he didn't have that, would he have his popularity?

Yeah, this is the only reason I ever used him in PoR. Thankfully my Rolf was pretty good (and/ or RNG-blessed) so I just used the little guy in RD.

[Etrurian emperor]

7 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

So it comes down to whether the good outweighs the bad for each person? That's fair. In my case then, I guess I just can't overlook the bad because, as you said, he's doing it deliberately and never accepts responsibility for it. For example, people joke about Ingrid being racist, but she at least acknowledges that she's being irrational and tries to fix it, even apologising to Dedue in their Supports. Sylvain never does that.

There's the good outweighing the bad or the bad being an interesting sort of bad. Its definitely a very valid interpretation to consider Sylvain a scumbag. 

8 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

As for the stuff in bold, I don't think he ever pays for it. Byleth calls him a jerk, but whenever anyone else calls him out on it it's usually played for laughs (e.g. with Ingrid) or treated as a slap on the wrist (e.g. with Felix)...assuming Sylvain doesn't just use it as an excuse to segue into his brother complex or fear/ hatred of women. Are there any Supports where he's properly chewed out for it?

I'm not sure its entirely played for laughs with Ingrid. Some of it is but she does sounds really mad and Sylvain does have to apologize for making her clean up after him. 

I don't think Sylvain ever pays for it in a direct way but there are implication that his reputation in the monastery is pretty much dirt. 

[Flere210]

5 hours ago, Azure, Roundabouted Out said:

I will admit, investing in Reason magic is her best option for offense. I feel Dark Knight is a suitable compromise for access to magic and the freedom of high movement.
Although, I would like to see what your ideal skill set for Annette is.

Bolt axe+ has 3 might and 1 range over Excalibur whit the only disadvantage being hit%(you are not going to double whit Annette on maddening period) and Annette has an horrible faith list.

As a pure mage she is murdered by her own list missing both big nukes and long range spells and outclassed by everyone whit a decent list. As a magic weapon user, she can outdamage frozen lance spammers if you can get her to hit consistently and rival Lysithea when it comes to nuke something. She can OHKO armors whit hammer or mace lighting axe, most units whit dust, and some of the frailer whit just lighting axe on a strong weapon. Whit excalibur she can, maybe, kill flyers.

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

23 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Bolt axe+ has 3 might and 1 range over Excalibur whit the only disadvantage being hit%(you are not going to double whit Annette on maddening period) and Annette has an horrible faith list.

As a pure mage she is murdered by her own list missing both big nukes and long range spells and outclassed by everyone whit a decent list. As a magic weapon user, she can outdamage frozen lance spammers if you can get her to hit consistently and rival Lysithea when it comes to nuke something. She can OHKO armors whit hammer or mace lighting axe, most units whit dust, and some of the frailer whit just lighting axe on a strong weapon. Whit excalibur she can, maybe, kill flyers.

 

 

Which would be meaningful but for the fact that the Bolt Axe is still worth less than junk, as is the Crusher. I mean, I'm shitting away 40 hit for 4 might (compared to Excalibur) in the case of the former, and gamble with Annette's life in the latter case. That reeks of a flat-out losing trade. And before you play the Axe Prowess card, I'll state Reason Prowess gives the same boosts.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Flere210]

17 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Which would be meaningful but for the fact that the Bolt Axe is still worth less than junk, as is the Crusher. I mean, I'm shitting away 40 hit for 4 might (compared to Excalibur) in the case of the former, and gamble with Annette's life in the latter case. That reeks of a flat-out losing trade. And before you play the Axe Prowess card, I'll state Reason Prowess gives the same boosts.

They are still better than fucking 11 might excalibur. And it not just 4 might, is 4 might + whatever combat arts give you, + whatever might you get by using lighting axe  whit a weapon that does not cost a lot to repair. 

And is not 40 accuracy, it's 20 accuracy if you use the combat art that everyone get. The only instance when it's 40 accuracy for 4 might is when poking at 3 range, and is mostly 40 hit for 1 range. Unless you want to shot yourself in the foot and give thyrsus to her instead of a mage whit a reason list that is not crap.

 

To me is not even axe vs reason, it's axe vs using someone else.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Flere210

[Shadow Mir]

31 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

They are still better than fucking 11 might excalibur. And it not just 4 might, is 4 might + whatever combat arts give you, + whatever might you get by using lighting axe  whit a weapon that does not cost a lot to repair. 

And is not 40 accuracy, it's 20 accuracy if you use the combat art that everyone get. The only instance when it's 40 accuracy for 4 might is when poking at 3 range, and is mostly 40 hit for 1 range. Unless you want to shot yourself in the foot and give thyrsus to her instead of a mage whit a reason list that is not crap.

 

To me is not even axe vs reason, it's axe vs using someone else.

And Excalibur is still better than the Fire Emblem equivalent of playing with fire, which is what you're advocating. Have fun getting burned. It's no risk vs a dead Annette (or her accomplishing nothing because she whiffed) to me - and it should be painfully obvious what's better.

Which reminds me... The Bolt Axe is only worth using in Awakening. Path of Radiance made it a complete joke, while it's not much better in Fates and Three Houses.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[NekoKnight]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for my own unpopular opinion: I think Sylvain is a sexist pig.

Let me preface this by saying some things in his defense: he clearly has a lot going for him (his being loyal to his friends and defending Dedue, being much smarter than he lets on with Annette) and has some mental issues (being tormented by his brother and having the responsibilities of his Crest thrown on him), but I don't think any of that justifies how he treats women. He says he doesn't trust them, so even if we assume he was courted once or twice by someone who only wanted his Crest and wasn't just being paranoid in his youth...well, I just don't see the link between "distrusts women" and "flirts with anything in a skirt".

[I put all of this in a spoiler because it wound up longer than I thought it would and don't want to upset his fans.]

  Reveal hidden contents

 

My problems with him are only just beginning: he doesn't just flirt with the girls around him, he seduces them, treats them like dirt and, when anyone calls him out on his behaviour, plays the victim card and starts telling everyone how he was abused as a child or how those women were just trying to use him anyway. For example, he's called out for cheating TWICE in his C and B Supports with Byleth and, instead of owning up to it, he accuses the first woman of only being interested in him for his Crest and later complains that "she didn't care that I was seeing other women before she found out, so why does she care now?" before taking his anger out on Byleth about their Crest. And this is something reflected in all of his Supports that involve women. If he just didn't trust them, that'd be one thing, but the fact that he goes out of his way to hoodwink and ruin as many girls as possible, then claiming he's the victim and "oh, look at poor me and how horrible girls are" whenever someone puts him on the spot just makes me sick.

And before anyone says "he has depression, he isn't supposed to make sense"...that's not how mental illnesses work. People with mental illnesses - that aren't just psychopaths that resort to violence - have warped logic, but it's still a form of logic (for example, someone with OCD may keep checking their locks, but it's because they keep asking themselves "what if I didn't lock it properly?" or "what if my hands get infected if I don't wash them an extra time?" - they're trying to get peace of mind and this sort of safety checking is how they manage it). There's no reasoning that would take someone from "I don't trust women" to "I'm going to ruin as many women as possible and it'll be entirely their fault" that isn't just straight-up misogyny. Besides, there are others in 3H with (implied) mental illnesses who don't drag others down with them: Bernie stays cooped up, but she doesn't lock everyone else in their rooms at midnight; she just keeps herself away. Linhardt doesn't mock the people around him for paying attention in class; he just accepts that they have motivation where he doesn't and goes about his day. Again, Sylvain's the only one who gets off on ruining the lives of the people around him.

Heck, he's even worse than Lorenz! Lorenz is unapologetic and offensive, with an ego so massive he can't comprehend that no one likes him, but he at least has an end goal in mind (marry a noblewoman), respects women in his own way (as he tells Dorothea in their B Support) and even mellows out in his epilogues. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like him, but that's still better than Sylvain, who has no end goal (beyond the aforementioned "ruin as many lives as possible and blame everyone else for it") and continues treating women like dirt in his epilogues.

 

What confuses me is how popular he is. I know confidence and humour are popular, but I don't get how anyone can look past all of that other stuff (unless they somehow managed to skip all of the Supports and dialogue that touch on it)...I know there are people here who like him, so would like to hear their thoughts.

I'm with you there 100%

It would be one thing if he avoided the company of women because he didn't trust them but he deliberately seeks them out, for his own indulgence, out of spite and indifference to their feelings. He has other positive traits but the game doesn't really take his flaws as serious as it should. His Byleth support shows him at his worst and he gets called out for it but ultimately the support shifts to "Oh, you have a sad past. I see how that messed you up." It's not like he vowed to change his ways. While this can be said about many characters with quirks or flaws, I think fewer people would forgive his rampant misogyny if he weren't attractive. I'm sure his fans will point to his interactions with all the named female characters as proof that he's not a misogynist but all that proves to me is that he thinks it's okay to "pump and dump" when he won't see his partner again.

I think his attitude towards women is kind of misplaced anyway. His trauma is associated with how his brother hated/abused him because of his crest. You just have to take the game at its word that women have also tried to use and abuse him. He preemptively hates and abuses women but we never see that hatred validated even a little.

Edited December 4, 2019 by NekoKnight

[Icelerate]

A lot of people hype up the Three Houses lords as being the best in the series due to how their ideals are really different from each other but the problem is they barely communicate with each other. The FE7 lords are arguably better because they have a much more interesting dynamic. 

[NekoKnight]

Just now, Icelerate said:

A lot of people hype up the Three Houses lords as being the best in the series due to how their ideals are really different from each other but the problem is they barely communicate with each other. The FE7 lords are arguably better because they have a much more interesting dynamic. 

I think this is one of TH's biggest wasted potentials. You have 3 lords who spend the first half of the game together but the game does everything it can to avoid having them interact in order to make the other routes more enticing to play. Even in the latter half of the game, they barely interact, leading to them never really understanding each other. Edelgard is about as close to Dimitri as she is with Annette.

[Icelerate]

1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

I think this is one of TH's biggest wasted potentials. You have 3 lords who spend the first half of the game together but the game does everything it can to avoid having them interact in order to make the other routes more enticing to play. Even in the latter half of the game, they barely interact, leading to them never really understanding each other. Edelgard is about as close to Dimitri as she is with Annette.

They should have given more collaboration missions to the three lords. Speaking of the pre timeskip, what exactly are the other two lords doing? Byleth gets sent on the same missions regardless of route which implies those were the only missions so it means the other groups were doing absolutely nothing. 

[NekoKnight]

Just now, Icelerate said:

They should have given more collaboration missions to the three lords. Speaking of the pre timeskip, what exactly are the other two lords doing? Byleth gets sent on the same missions regardless of route which implies those were the only missions so it means the other groups were doing absolutely nothing. 

They do sometimes mention vaguely that they have other assignments when you get a missions. 

[Icelerate]

2 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

They do sometimes mention vaguely that they have other assignments when you get a missions. 

Isn't it too convenient that you get the same assignments regardless of house? 

[Julian Solo]

Edelgard and Dimitri both suffer from white problems. Well the the tan lords problems are super underdeveloped. 

[NekoKnight]

Just now, Icelerate said:

Isn't it too convenient that you get the same assignments regardless of house? 

Not exactly. With Rhea keenly interested in what you're doing, it makes sense for her to direct you (Byleth) to where she thinks its important. Jeralt is also your father so any mission that might concern him is relevant to Byleth. Beyond that, it's just a matter of game design. They want to get all of the plot and exposition done in those school phase chapters. The first half of the game has some excellent pacing so I won't begrudge them for not making a lot of alternate missions.

[Garlyle]

4 hours ago, Icelerate said:

A lot of people hype up the Three Houses lords as being the best in the series due to how their ideals are really different from each other but the problem is they barely communicate with each other. The FE7 lords are arguably better because they have a much more interesting dynamic. 

Honestly the lords are kind of boring and mostly there for the story with their ideals, but besides that there's really not much else in them. People might think the rest of the cast is one dimensional, but I find the other characters have more depth and think about more than one thing... except Leonie of course. Support conversation really helped in that regard. (I know it's just me)

The FE7 lords are interesting, but I think the chemistry between them made them even more interesting.

[Jotari]

 

5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I think this is one of TH's biggest wasted potentials. You have 3 lords who spend the first half of the game together but the game does everything it can to avoid having them interact in order to make the other routes more enticing to play. Even in the latter half of the game, they barely interact, leading to them never really understanding each other. Edelgard is about as close to Dimitri as she is with Annette.

5 hours ago, Icelerate said:

They should have given more collaboration missions to the three lords. Speaking of the pre timeskip, what exactly are the other two lords doing? Byleth gets sent on the same missions regardless of route which implies those were the only missions so it means the other groups were doing absolutely nothing. 

I agree with this so much. First route I played was Silver Snow and when Dimitri shows up in that for his single scene I was so thoroughly uninvested because I had absolutely no idea who he was a person. I can just imagine for people who didn't choose Edelgard first, when she comes out and betrays everyone the standard reaction would be "that came absolutely out of nowhere. Who even is she?" Making them mysterious isn't going to make their routes more enticing for me to play, making them actual interesting plot affecting characters who I want to learn more about would make me more enticed to play their routes.

And just for the sake of uniqueness they should have had at least some of the Chapters in part 1 be altered depending on which lord you chose. Because the thoughts of having to play Part 1 again, when almost every single cutscene is exactly the same despite having a completely different cast is nightmarish.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Jotari

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I'm with you there 100%

It would be one thing if he avoided the company of women because he didn't trust them but he deliberately seeks them out, for his own indulgence, out of spite and indifference to their feelings. He has other positive traits but the game doesn't really take his flaws as serious as it should. His Byleth support shows him at his worst and he gets called out for it but ultimately the support shifts to "Oh, you have a sad past. I see how that messed you up." It's not like he vowed to change his ways. While this can be said about many characters with quirks or flaws, I think fewer people would forgive his rampant misogyny if he weren't attractive. I'm sure his fans will point to his interactions with all the named female characters as proof that he's not a misogynist but all that proves to me is that he thinks it's okay to "pump and dump" when he won't see his partner again.

I think his attitude towards women is kind of misplaced anyway. His trauma is associated with how his brother hated/abused him because of his crest. You just have to take the game at its word that women have also tried to use and abuse him. He preemptively hates and abuses women but we never see that hatred validated even a little.

I'm so glad I found someone who agrees with me! It's not nice to agree with someone that something/ one is terrible, but it was so weird seeing people singing Sylvain's praises but never acknowledging this stuff...

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Not exactly. With Rhea keenly interested in what you're doing, it makes sense for her to direct you (Byleth) to where she thinks its important.

I also agree with this. It's pretty clever in that way, especially since she's kinda testing you in the early Chapters too (e.g. showing you what happens to those who defy her and sending you out on bigger missions once you get the Sword of the Creator).

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know if I stated this before, but...

Lyon is not a well-written villain. Too much time the villains got any focus in SS was spent with the Grado generals, most of whom were abysmal (special mention to Caellach, Riev, and Valter), and there's very little to his character outside of flashbacks. It doesn't help that by the time you see him, there's not much game left and he's pretty much been taken over by Fomortiis at that point.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Troykv]

34 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't know if I stated this before, but...

Lyon is not a well-written villain. Too much time the villains got any focus in SS was spent with the Grado generals, most of whom were abysmal (special mention to Caellach, Riev, and Valter), and there's very little to his character outside of flashbacks. It doesn't help that by the time you see him, there's not much game left and he's pretty much been taken over by Fomortiis at that point.

The thing I like the most about Lyon is his tome's animation.

[Icelerate]

22 minutes ago, Troykv said:

The thing I like the most about Lyon is his tome's animation.

So you dislike Lyon like Shadow Mir? 

[Troykv]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

So you dislike Lyon like Shadow Mir? 

I'm neutral with him, he needed help.

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

I hate how people say that Eirika and Ephraim's ending implies incest it actually isn't in fact it's similar to Rowan and Lianna where they both are crowned king and queen of Aytolis.

Also I ship Eirika with Saleh because they are amazing together and I love their ending and how their daughter resemble Nada Kuya.

[NekoKnight]

Rodrigue is a good dad and Glen didn't die for some twisted morals, he died because he was murdered while on the job.

[Thane]

3 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Rodrigue is a good dad and Glen didn't die for some twisted morals, he died because he was murdered while on the job.

Please tell me this isn't an impopular opinion.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Please tell me this isn't an impopular opinion.

It's unpopular among people who like Felix.