What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[vanguard333]

26 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Birthright: There are a lot of examples in birthright but the most prominent one is with Zola. Corrin chooses to trust Zola after escaping Izumo and as a result they're planned assasination of Garon fails and they forced to flee. Corrin later chooses to blindly trust Flora. She ends up betraying them and killing herself in grief. Yeah I don't think the game is saying Corrin right by those two instances.

Except that, in the Zola case at least, as far as the story is concerned, he was right for three reasons:

1. The game later reveals that Takumi still had lingering effects of the possession and Iago was able to use that to get Takumi to feed him information, and it is heavily implied that he was having Takumi do this before escaping Izumo, so Zola's betrayal was pointless as they could've gotten the information from Takumi anyway.
2. Zola wanted Corrin spared; he thought resisting Garon was futile, and he betrayed them on the agreement that Corrin be spared; an agreement Garon never intended to keep. 
3. No one calls out Corrin for this; not a hint of "I told you so", "Now do you understand?" or some variation. 

[Hawkwing]

11 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Reminder that Berwick Saga was released in 2005. You know, the game that looks like this? Yeah. I know you've already seen this, just throwing it out there for everybody else.

 "Welp. I'm completely and utterly fasteriskcked. Sorry, horse."

I forgot how much happened in that update. Lentzenheimer kicked the bucket in an awesomely fitting way,  another unit (I know who it was, I'm not spoiling) was added to the death toll, it preceded the Hunger games, and I made two memes:

Spoiler

Also, to save time on showing the charge and the astra animations, I'll link them for you. (Seriously, though, watch them if you haven't already. The sprite animation is beautiful).

11 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Incidentally, my unpopular FE opinion (not entirely sure if it's unpopular, but whatever) is that FE should never have made the jump to 3D. Due to the nature of the genre, the series gained absolutely nothing from 3D, and has since been suffering from subpar visuals. It's a problem that stands to this day: Three Houses is a very strong contender for the most hideous triple-A game on the Switch. Heck, plenty of indie games on the eshop are nicer on the eyes. You pretty much have to bring up budget shovelware for Three Houses to even stand a chance, when it comes to graphics. Then there's the fact that it's got a 30 FPS cap and still runs like crap, with the FPS dropping constantly.

I can't help but wonder how gorgeous FE games would be if they remained 2D. I mean, just look at Berwick Saga. That game is beautiful.

I both agree and disagree. Agreed, in that the GBA animations is one of the most well known aspects of the series and people are still making their own versions, and TearRing and especially Berwick saga just how awesome sprite animation can be. Disagree, in that Fates and especially Echoes animations are still very well done and great to look at, and Awakening isn't too bad either, even if it is rough around the edges. Both can be done well or poorly.

I'm no animator, so I don't know if there are any production reasons for the jump to 3D and why they've been sticking with it for so long. I'm also taking a "wait-and-see" approach towards Three Houses animations, because we don't know if it's a fluke and the next game will improve upon the animations significantly, or if it will be a reoccurring problem.

19 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

Enough digressing. My unpopular FE opinion is the mounted units are awful. I don't mean utility wise as far as if they get the job done or do it better. But like the idea of mounted combat itself is so broken.

I went to RenFaire and got a chance to joust. That's horseback riding with spear polearm. It is beyond difficult to control and fight effectively like that. I'd rather dismount and swing it on the ground. I couldn't even begin to imagine how hard it it must be to swing using a flying mount in the fantasy world. If I'm not mistaken swinging isn't even an option. You should be limited to thrusts. What if you accidentally hit the wing of your mount? Not to mention those little acrobatic flips for criticals and how they spin. I'm done. 

You do realize how deadly cavalry were historically, right? And that said cavalry would be trained on how to use their weapons effectively while riding on a horse? It's not something you can just pick up and expect to do well at without practice.

A rule that cavaliers don't follow in Fire Emblem that real life and several other strategy games do is that horses are not good for defensive purposes. Not to mention how tactics involving spears and ranged weapons could be efficient against cavalry when applied correctly. Personally, I'm fine with this, as I barely get a use out of cavalry in other strategy games due to spears being a common infantry weapon and how I tend to prefer defensive tactics, where horse units are mostly useless.

***

As for some more unpopular opinions:

- Three Houses should have had blood in normal gameplay instead of limiting it to cutscenes, with an on/off feature.

- On a similar note, for a smaller project like Echoes, I wouldn't mind seeing a bloodier and more grounded Fire Emblem game that didn't focus on nobility. It would be awesome if the animations used several real life weapon techniques, and the class designs were at their most practical. It would also be cool if battle damage returned, and it ends up being more brutal than fanservicey The general design would also mean that the "waifu" elements of the series would be heavily toned down, at least for one game.

- On the flipside, I also wouldn't mind a deconstructionist postmodernist mindscrewy Fire Emblem game in the vein of Metal Gear Solid 2, or a parody, as long as both games are clearly advertised as such.

- Gautlets are the best addition Three Houses brought and should be a permanent mainstay of Fire Emblem from now on.

- The "character says badass quote before a critical hit" routine is pretty cool, but it has run its course by now and should be replaced by something else.

- While I definitely agree that the cast has very minimal characterization, the few moments we do get of units speaking up (outside of death quotes) are surprisingly well-written and not at all generic.

- Shadow Dragon's Gaiden system wasn't a bad idea in and off itself. On paper, it gives a struggling player the ability to catch up by giving them some extra experience, items, and another unit. In practice, the requirement to unlock the extra levels was ludicrously low, and that problem could easily be resolved in a second attempt.

-- Also, while it is definitely a legitimate criticism, Shadow Dragons Gaiden mechanic does not bring the game down as a whole. The player is in no way forced to unlock them.

- Both Gaiden and Echoes are underrated for deconstructing the "militant nation invades peaceful country" and "evil cult" tropes that are prevalent in the series. Also, Alms forces are comprised largely of volunteer and professional soldiers instead of ragtags, which is uncommon for Fire Emblem.

- Every Fire Emblem game is bad about informing the player about the games formulas outside of some general hints, and really need an advanced section so that players can view the exact formulas and bonuses without being forced to.

- After Three Houses had some (hilarious) jokes surrounding the dancer class, I would like for the next Fire Emblem game to have a nonfancervicy bard whose ballads not only refresh units, but can give them temporary boosts. Telling a tale of great bravery would increase strength, a story of a clever hero would increase avoid, and so on. It could work like magic in Three Houses, where they can tell a ballad a limited number of times per battle, and as their skills increase and the story goes on, the more songs they learn. During pair-up or other supporting mechanics, they would greatly increase hit rate due to the music synchronizing with the combat.

[Glass_of_Milk]

Fates isn't anywhere near the worst game in the franchise and I feel like a lot of people only say this because it's popular to hate on Fates. 

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Corrin later chooses to blindly trust Flora. She ends up betraying them and killing herself in grief. Yeah I don't think the game is saying Corrin right by those two instances.

Remember, Corrin's an idiot, and he/she knows Flora personally.  Thus, it's not surprising that he/she would do that.

16 minutes ago, Glass_of_Milk said:

Fates isn't anywhere near the worst game in the franchise and I feel like a lot of people only say this because it's popular to hate on Fates. 

Okay, actual question: What's the worst game, and why?

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Remember, Corrin's an idiot, and he/she knows Flora personally.  Thus, it's not surprising that he/she would do that.

yeah and that's the idea. Corrin relies on the trust they already have with Flora which goes against the reason they chose to side with Hoshido to begin with. They refused to believe in the trust they already had in their nohrian siblings to side with Hoshido so them trying to use it here is a contradiction on their part and therefore the narrative punishes them for it.

[ZeManaphy]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Remember, Corrin's an idiot, and he/she knows Flora personally.  Thus, it's not surprising that he/she would do that.

Okay, actual question: What's the worst game, and why?

For me, it was Echoes since the maps were so slow and cantors made everything more slow. Dungeon Crawling was like driving a car, and I have already discussed Celica.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Fire Emblem is bad.

Don't get me wrong, I like it. I have very positive experiences with some of these games and it's a franchise that will always be with me in some form or another.

That said, I can more readily say these games are interesting than well made, even for FE6.

***

Plot in Fire Emblem has actually always been a bit weak. I'm of the opinion that video games shouldn't strive to be a narrative medium, and while I don't think that Fire Emblem shouldn't "not try," I would rather have a simple, elegant, unobtrusive excuse plot linking together a series of interesting maps, maybe with a little sprinkle of complexity or interesting comments here and there. Sort of like FE6.

***

41 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

- On the flipside, I also wouldn't mind a deconstructionist postmodernist mindscrewy Fire Emblem game in the vein of Metal Gear Solid 2, or a parody, as long as both games are clearly advertised as such.

I don't know, telling someone you're about to prank them kind of weakens the effect. Surprises like that might not even be possible these days, though. Not to say I don't like this idea- it could be properly amazing.

41 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

- The "character says badass quote before a critical hit" routine is pretty cool, but it has run its course by now and should be replaced by something else.

Remember how Lethality had that cool effect where the screen went pure red and black in Awakening? Maybe some fancy visual effects like that would cool, give each skill its own particle effect or screen filter or whatever.

47 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

- Every Fire Emblem game is bad about informing the player about the games formulas outside of some general hints, and really need an advanced section so that players can view the exact formulas and bonuses without being forced to.

 

Agreed, I still don't know Gaiden's crit formula.

47 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

- After Three Houses had some (hilarious) jokes surrounding the dancer class, I would like for the next Fire Emblem game to have a nonfancervicy bard whose ballads not only refresh units, but can give them temporary boosts. Telling a tale of great bravery would increase strength, a story of a clever hero would increase avoid, and so on. It could work like magic in Three Houses, where they can tell a ballad a limited number of times per battle, and as their skills increase and the story goes on, the more songs they learn. During pair-up or other supporting mechanics, they would greatly increase hit rate due to the music synchronizing with the combat.

They should have a unit who's basically Lalum but with a lute.

[eclipse]

15 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

yeah and that's the idea. Corrin relies on the trust they already have with Flora which goes against the reason they chose to side with Hoshido to begin with. They refused to believe in the trust they already had in their nohrian siblings to side with Hoshido so them trying to use it here is a contradiction on their part and therefore the narrative punishes them for it.

Which means this is one of the few times Corrin is punished for being an idiot. . .which is a damn good thing in my books.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Which means this is one of the few times Corrin is punished for being an idiot. . .which is a damn good thing in my books.

yep pretty much not much else to add here really.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Hawkwing said:

- After Three Houses had some (hilarious) jokes surrounding the dancer class, I would like for the next Fire Emblem game to have a nonfancervicy bard whose ballads not only refresh units, but can give them temporary boosts. Telling a tale of great bravery would increase strength, a story of a clever hero would increase avoid, and so on. It could work like magic in Three Houses, where they can tell a ballad a limited number of times per battle, and as their skills increase and the story goes on, the more songs they learn. During pair-up or other supporting mechanics, they would greatly increase hit rate due to the music synchronizing with the combat.

Come to think of it, FE kinda partly already did this with Ninian and Nils. Among refreshers units, they're among the most wholesome; and they had access to those rings that could boost stats. Also the Herons, though they almost exclusively affected just biorhythm, not the stats themselves.

I'd join in in wanting for the idea to get reused and expanded upon, then.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Glass_of_Milk]

28 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Okay, actual question: What's the worst game, and why?

Fire Emblem Gaiden. While I am grateful that it exists for introducing several mechanics and systems that would later utilized by other games, the game doesn't really have much else going for it. The level design is so dreadfully fully, and combined with the insane avoid bonuses from terrain, the game becomes so tedious and feels like a chore rather than a hobby to play. The existence of witches just adds another layer of frustration as there isn't much you can really do except pray that your character doesn't get killed. Cantors and the Celica swamp and desert levels only really exist to drag out the game longer. Also the game has virtually no story.

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, Glass_of_Milk said:

Fire Emblem Gaiden. While I am grateful that it exists for introducing several mechanics and systems that would later utilized by other games, the game doesn't really have much else going for it. The level design is so dreadfully fully, and combined with the insane avoid bonuses from terrain, the game becomes so tedious and feels like a chore rather than a hobby to play. The existence of witches just adds another layer of frustration as there isn't much you can really do except pray that your character doesn't get killed. Cantors and the Celica swamp and desert levels only really exist to drag out the game longer. Also the game has virtually no story.

. . .and that's fair.  I'll assume you stayed away from Echoes, if that's your thoughts on Gaiden.

I. . .uh, have a definite hatred of swamps, too.

[Captain Karnage]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Okay, actual question: What's the worst game, and why?

really depends on who you ask, I'd personally say, as long as you look at each game from the respective era it came from, there isn't an objectively bad game

Revelations, that game just feels rushed, obnoxious to play, and just is a mess (I look at Fates as 3 separate games)

___

I had seriously forgotten that game existed until I was almost done with that last sentence

[Benice]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Okay, actual question: What's the worst game, and why?

Blazing sword, since about 90% of the chapters are filler chapters. Blazing could easily have been 12-14 chapters, (Not counting Lyn mode, which doesn't need to exist.) but NOOO, we have to see random uneventful battles for no good reason! Take the Vaida chapter.  First off, I can rout all of the enemies, (Other than Vaida and the people in her position,) in under three turns. The whole conflict could easily have been avoided. Yes, it does explain how we find the BF's lair, but it could have easily done so without putting us through a 13 turn chapter. Also, I can tolerate one of the lords, like one of the lords, and despise the other. Lyn wasn't really that interesting, Hector's, well... I've already said a  lot about Hector. Eliwood is good. Also, gameplay wise, Lyn is usually pretty awful, (although she once turned out really good for me,) Eliwood is a mixed bag, (My first playthrough he was quite good, my second playthrough he could only deal 12 DMG to the final boss with Durandal. And he was slow, had bad skill and had no defense.) Hector generally turns out very good. I just found the game very grindy in general.

(Plus, the game's intials make BS, so that has to count for something, right?)

[Tediz64]

2 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

You do realize how deadly cavalry were historically, right? And that said cavalry would be trained on how to use their weapons effectively while riding on a horse? It's not something you can just pick up and expect to do well at without practice.

***

- Every Fire Emblem game is bad about informing the player about the games formulas outside of some general hints, and really need an advanced section so that players can view the exact formulas and bonuses without being forced to.

- After Three Houses had some (hilarious) jokes surrounding the dancer class, I would like for the next Fire Emblem game to have a nonfancervicy bard whose ballads not only refresh units, but can give them temporary boosts. Telling a tale of great bravery would increase strength, a story of a clever hero would increase avoid, and so on. It could work like magic in Three Houses, where they can tell a ballad a limited number of times per battle, and as their skills increase and the story goes on, the more songs they learn. During pair-up or other supporting mechanics, they would greatly increase hit rate due to the music synchronizing with the combat.

Im a little familiar with history during certain eras like with the Han dynasty, the Greek and Roman battles, and etc. But what I really wanted to put an emphasis on was the fantasy setting of flying mounts. How do they not hit their wings? As well as all those little acrobatic stunts. It just blows my mind. I remember seeing the crit for Pegasus Rider on Fates with the front flip and spear extended. That looked so unreal. Or on the Kinshi Knight (the bird promotion). Some stunts look a little more realistic but the part of cleaving thru your enemy and flying past them also seems to unreal.

--------

I liked how in PoR and RD they had a separate section for the tutorials with Anna teaching us. Maybe they could bring that back as well as give us the actual formulas? Maybe we should all request it on IS and FE Twitter accounts or something like that. Maybe if they see enough support we can get them to add. I mean they listened to us and fixed those God awful feet from Awakening when going over to Fates. Those little peg legs scarred me forever. I could never stop looking at them. 

Like someone else mentioned before but they did do something like that back during Blazing Sword. The litany ring gave like avoid, the Thor ring gave Critical, and Nils ring gave def/res. In later fire emblem they added a skill in Awakening onward that gave a bonus/buff when you danced. They should expand on the bard role. It's a creative class. In Awakening onward those gave it the command name "Rally" and gave different versions albeit it wasn't clear the rally bots were bards or dancers. I felt Fates rally skills were nerfed but oh well. And it was also mentioned but the Herons from the Tellius games were also great buffers. Hopefully they keep expanding on it or make a class out of it. Maybe give it some passive skills to help keep the bard/dancer alive or from being targeted like those stealth skills. 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

In fact, the whole story of Echoes could have been written without Celica. All you had to make some minor edits like: Alm goes to Nuibaba after hearing from a villager that the Rigelian Army is fighting due to blackmail, the water gate could have been taken over by the Duma Faithful to prevent the Deliverance from invading Rigel to name a few.

Eh, those two things are already what happens in the game.

[vanguard333]

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

yeah and that's the idea. Corrin relies on the trust they already have with Flora which goes against the reason they chose to side with Hoshido to begin with. They refused to believe in the trust they already had in their nohrian siblings to side with Hoshido so them trying to use it here is a contradiction on their part and therefore the narrative punishes them for it.

No; if you pick Birthright, the stated reason Corrin stands with Hoshido is they can't support what King Garon is doing; it's not that they refused to believe in the trust they had in their Nohrian siblings, but entirely to do with Garon. 

 

11 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Plot in Fire Emblem has actually always been a bit weak. I'm of the opinion that video games shouldn't strive to be a narrative medium, and while I don't think that Fire Emblem shouldn't "not try," I would rather have a simple, elegant, unobtrusive excuse plot linking together a series of interesting maps, maybe with a little sprinkle of complexity or interesting comments here and there. Sort of like FE6.

I've never played FE6, but I do agree that Fire Emblem does have some storytelling problems; namely that IS has a bit of a tendency to either fall back on formula or, more often, get overambitious and bite off more than they can chew. Complexity does not equal depth.

I have played Path of Radiance, and that game had enough: a straightforward, refined and elegant story with plenty of depth here and there. To this day, I think it has easily the best story in Fire Emblem. 

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

No; if you pick Birthright, the stated reason Corrin stands with Hoshido is they can't support what King Garon is doing; it's not that they refused to believe in the trust they had in their Nohrian siblings, but entirely to do with Garon.

Yeah. It's not like he did anything wrong with the Nohrian siblings in Birthright that he did right in Revelation. Revelation would have ended just as badly on the Nohrian side as Birthright did if not for the sheer dumb luck of Xander and Leon witnessing an extremely convenient meltdown from Garon.

[vanguard333]

39 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah. It's not like he did anything wrong with the Nohrian siblings in Birthright that he did right in Revelation. Revelation would have ended just as badly on the Nohrian side as Birthright did if not for the sheer dumb luck of Xander and Leon witnessing an extremely convenient meltdown from Garon.

Yeah; I agree. In Revelation, because you happen to find out about Valla (which Azura couldn't tell us about in the other routes because...?), Garon goes nuts and Xander and Leo happen to hear it. Really? That's all it took?

Edited February 3, 2020 by vanguard333

[GlitchWarrior]

Leo. Leo. Sorry, I just get super-frustrated when people combine two naming sets. You could have said "Marx and Leon" or "Xander and Leo," but whenever I see any mix of the two my head starts to spin...

[Ottservia]

14 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Except that, in the Zola case at least, as far as the story is concerned, he was right for three reasons:

1. The game later reveals that Takumi still had lingering effects of the possession and Iago was able to use that to get Takumi to feed him information, and it is heavily implied that he was having Takumi do this before escaping Izumo, so Zola's betrayal was pointless as they could've gotten the information from Takumi anyway.
2. Zola wanted Corrin spared; he thought resisting Garon was futile, and he betrayed them on the agreement that Corrin be spared; an agreement Garon never intended to keep. 
3. No one calls out Corrin for this; not a hint of "I told you so", "Now do you understand?" or some variation. 

I’m not saying it’s perfect as there could’ve been a bit more added to give the moment a little more weight and impact but combined with other things in the story, the thematic implication is certainly there and that’s what I value more personally.

 

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

14 hours ago, Ottservia said:

 

No; if you pick Birthright, the stated reason Corrin stands with Hoshido is they can't support what King Garon is doing; it's not that they refused to believe in the trust they had in their Nohrian siblings, but entirely to do with Garon. 

 

It may not be the stated reason but it is an implied reason inherent to siding with Hoshido instead of Nohr because of the effect it has on the Nohrian siblings. They feel betrayed by Corrin’s decision because as Camilla implies in chapter 13 they feel Corrin isn’t the same person anymore. They refuse to trust Corrin because Corrin refused to trust Nohr the place they grew up in. This reasoning is actually brought up again in revelations by Takumi no less.

[ZeManaphy]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Eh, those two things are already what happens in the game.

Allow me to elaborate. Instead of Celica being required to open water gate, the Duma Faithful could have taken over and are not letting the gate go.

[Flere210]

The only interesting things in that game come from Celica side imo, if anything because it's not just the standard lord Journey. But then, for Celica story to really work you need Undertale mechanics.

[ZeManaphy]

22 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

The only interesting things in that game come from Celica side imo, if anything because it's not just the standard lord Journey. But then, for Celica story to really work you need Undertale mechanics.

Undertale Mechanics?

Edited February 3, 2020 by ZeManaphy

[Shrimpica]

Since you all were talking about Echoes, i wanted to add another Point...

Alm x Celica...

just.... why? It really is like ''we met back, we are now lovers''. They should've either fleshed it out more, or changed the romance in the game...

Now, i am not really big into echoes, so i don't care that much, but it makes me afraid that when FE4 echoes comes around they won't flesh out Sigurd X Deidre at all and make it the same 

Hey
I just met you
and this is crazy
but i have Castle
So have my Baby

Because i really wasn't a big fan of that ship either, and if it stay the same i think i am gonna be a bit mad.

Then again, Kaga was never good at romance. Not a bad thing though, since they aren't really the focus of the older games, but in FE4 it's extra important