What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

16 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

When skipping you autotrain.

 

26 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Additionally, skipping class means you get the average outcome for teaching. No Great! no Perfect! and what is arguably an advantage no Bad! (How much this factor into a playthrough on the differing difficulties I don’t know)

also

16 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

26 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

Sword of the Creator won´t be recharged without Rest.

Skip = rest, so SotC recharges.

It also recharges motivation by 50%, for each week.

So there is even less ability to skip, but I suppose it adresses some of the weapon exp isssues, that may or may not pop up. I will admit that the Swordd of the Creator thing was a minor nitpick at best.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Imuabicus

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

For me it's a ''i just picked it up''/''wanna try something different''. Works especially well in 3H, since academy and all

But even in that setting, does it make any sense for somebody like Caspar to suddenly get an urge to start healing or slinging spells? Or for the conflict-averse, anthropophobic Bernadetta to start charging in and punching people in the face?

Even in the setting of 3H, class switching/making somebody a class that's WILDLY out of character is something that only arguably works in the first half. And once you get out of Three Houses, it gets even weirder for some characters to have the classes they do.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Slumber

[Shrimpica]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

does it make any sense for somebody like Caspar to suddenly get an urge to start healing or slinging spells? Or for the conflict-averse, anthropophobic Bernadetta to start charging in and punching people in the face?

Both can easily be attributted to ''overcome your weakness'' or Teach pushing them to. Caspar also has a sense of justice, for example.

Then again, it's just me. I was never one to connect class with character identity.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Shrimperor

[shanni20]

God I have so many. I think the one that can generate the most discussion though, is that I think that fe3 is better than fe12. (fe11 is probably better than both though)

[Jandex]

19 hours ago, forsettipatty said:

God I have so many. I think the one that can generate the most discussion though, is that I think that fe3 is better than fe12. (fe11 is probably better than both though)

what ? fe3 is pure shit

[shanni20]

1 minute ago, Jandex said:

what ? fe3 is pure shit

How lol? It's the second best kaga game and has competent level design and good difficulty

[CH0D]

On 2/7/2020 at 4:40 PM, vanguard333 said:

You didn't know a lot of this stuff? A lot of the stuff I mentioned is pointed out in the story in both games. I want this out of the way that I genuinely am not saying this to be insulting in any way; only as a genuine question: how much were you paying attention when playing Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn?

I hadn't yet gotten to the part where I compare Elincia and Celica; I was just trying to describe Elincia at that point. The comparison was to typical past FE princesses; at the time of their respective games, Celica and Elincia were atypical in different, but intersecting ways. 

No; I mean that it makes her an interesting character. Don't get me wrong; it can sometimes be interesting to see a character cave under the pressure. But it is also interesting to see a character overcome their personal issues (or at least learn how to put them aside for the moment) and deal with what's in front of them. That is interesting to see, and seeing her buckle under the pressure, but also rise above it, is realistic and engaging. 

For Celica, I find that her growth comes way too late in the game and is almost glossed over. She doesn't learn her mistake until after she is fed to Duma, and afterward, her moment of growth is almost glossed over as part 5's all about Alm being the hero. Seriously, I even looked back at the script for part 5 to double-check; it's basically Celica saying "I'm sorry" to Alm, telling him that she was wrong and he was right, and then briefly trying to convince Jedah to back down. Duma doesn't even acknowledge Celica at all; referring only to Alm as the Hero of Valentia. 

She's the last of the Crimean Royal Family (her uncle Renning lives, but that isn't revealed until just before the endgame of Radiant Dawn). By the time she does sit on the Crimean Throne, she has already grown over the course of Path of Radiance and shown leadership. 

The End Cinematic of Path of Radiance:

 

I didn't say that Celica starting right away was a bad thing; I was trying to highlight that she isn't "Elincia but better". They are different characters who intersect in some ways but are ultimately different; one isn't a superior version of the other. I do think Elincia is a better-written than Celica, but I can also concede that part of that is because Path of Radiance is an overall better-written game than Shadows of Valentia. 

Some of them are unsurpassable: Elincia, at the end of Part 2, is forced to choose between giving up the crown to Ludveck in exchange for the life of her foster-sister Lucia, or helplessly watch as Lucia gets hanged. Ultimately, after speaking with Ludveck and seeing just how twisted he is, she chooses that she won't hand over Crimea to him; knowing full well what this means. Lucia even supports this decision, stating, "People of Crimea… Behold a true queen! YOUR queen! Long live Queen Elincia!”

Lucia's life is saved by the Greil Mercenaries, who had been secretly hired by Bastian as a fail-save, but Elincia did not know that. Also, given how much Elincia has to wade through, I think she earns her successes. 

 

Alm's issues aren't that he messes up less than Celica: the issues are that he never messes up at all. Even something that should by all accounts lead to a mess-up magically doesn't. The game treats him as a perfect little boy who can do no wrong and is the hero everyone, especially Celica, needs. Every girl (except Mathilda) wants him, and every guy wants to be him. If that sounds familiar at all, it's because Alm is a Mary Sue. 

Anyway, thanks for the reply; I just thought I'd clarify some things. 

Ehhhhhhh... Whatever, I'm not gonna argue about anything Elincia or Celica based anymore, my opinion hasn't changed.

I don't think Alm is a Mary Sue. I also think SoV was competely fine in its writing overall.

As for how much I paid attention, not much really. I thought the story was really boring an I never felt attached to any of the characters. Ike's generic personality didn't really help that. At least Alm was really well voice acted and a little goofy at times, making him more likeable IMO.

It really just comes down to preference here. I don't like PoR or RD, or the characters really. But they aren't objectively bad. (Kinda)

[Ottservia]

34 minutes ago, CH0D said:

I don't think Alm is a Mary Sue. I also think SoV was competely fine in its writing overall.

SoV’s story would be fine if not for it blatently contradicting itself not once but twice over. Like seriously if you want me to believe that Alm and Celica are two halves of a greater whole then uh it’s not a good idea to make one of them extremely flawed but the other one not

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, CH0D said:

As for how much I paid attention, not much really.

And therein lies the problem: If you didn’t pay attention, you’re going to miss important stuff. The fact that you missed the thing about how Elincia was raised and why; some that was established in Chapter 5, says a lot. How reliable would my criticisms of SOV be if I said something like, “The characters were so bad; after Mycen left the village I just stopped paying attention”?

1 hour ago, CH0D said:

Ike's generic personality didn't really help that. 

Ike... generic... personality?! Oh, boy... @Anacybele Can you help me out here? Anything I write in response to this would probably be overly long.

[Ottservia]

I mean from what little I’ve played of PoR. Ike is a shounen protagonist. Kind, Fights for his friends, not terribly smart, loves to eat, etc. hell he even has a rival character in the black knight! I’m not saying it’s a bad thing(I absolutely love battle shounen stories after all). It’s just an observation.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Ike... generic... personality?! Oh, boy... @Anacybele Can you help me out here? Anything I write in response to this would probably be overly long.

Yeah, Ike is so not generic lol. At least compared to other FE lords. He's the most unique out of them imo. But you can explain it better than I, even if you write more of an essay than I would. 😛

[Hawkwing]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:36 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

Maybe I shall, one day. Frankly, more than anything else, what keeps me from playing the 3DS titles is that they're, well, on the 3DS. I have a 3DS, so it would feel scummy to download and emulate them, but accustomed to bigger monitors as I am, playing on a tiny screen and with tiny controls is not pleasant. Doesn't help that my 3DS is the very first model. It's part of the ambassador program, to give you an idea of how old it is. Works well, but again, everything is so tiny.

I do recommend getting Conquest eventually, though don't go out of your way to play it. I'm glad I tried it, but I also don't regret putting it off for so long. I believe it'll scratch the gameplay itch you have, and story is easier to digest if you know ahead of time it's not that good and that most of the entertainment you'll get from the characters is not from depth, but by watching the fireworks.

I'm also curious on seeing what your thoughts on Awakening would be, since I can see you really loving and really hating certain elements of the game, and I'm curious on what your final opinion on the game would be. And how that would change if you decide to do a challenge run.

Also, nice profile pic. Berkick Saga LP soon?

On 2/9/2020 at 1:18 PM, Shrimperor said:

And i never understood the ''identity is bound  to classes thing''. If a class is all a character has, then they aren't  good written character or unique enough. Skills make characters much more unique then classes ever did. And writing.

On 2/9/2020 at 2:28 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

It does create a massive story-gameplay rift when you're having the old guy beat people to death, the tough-as-nails knight relegated to healing duty, the muscles-over-brains person sling spells and the lazy scholar swing an axe around.

Still, I don't think it quite "ruins the characters" - what it does is create a great distance between the character and the unit. As fun as it is, reclassing does make it feel like they're not the same thing. Whether or not that's an important enough issue to ruin everything for you is a matter of personal opinion.

Awakening and Fates found a solid middle ground character-wise with how reclassing was handled. A lot of the options made since for the character in question, such as Kellam being able to become a thief because of his infamous lack of presence, or Cordelia being the only first gen character besides Robin who can wield every weapon in the game as she's considered an ace. Ricken looks up to Chrom, so they share the same reclass options, and all characters that can become dark mages have a darker aspect to their personality. Even ones that don't have an immediate explanations aren't far-fetched that a character would fit that class. A downside of this system is that how useful the classes could be for the unit in question tended to be hit or miss, although most of them were hits.

***

Other Unpopular Opinions:

- Awakening is at its most fun when you ignore all the game-breaking aspects, and it's one of the easiest and most diverse games to do a challenge run for.

- While mechanically sound for gaining support points, the Private Quarters in Fates and Tea Time in Three Houses share the same problem of not really adding all that much to the characters themselves.

- While Fire Emblems stories range from bad to okay to good, the dialogue is an underappreciated aspect of the writing that's often glossed over. In several ways, it's just as important as the plot itself.

[Etrurian emperor]

4 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I mean from what little I’ve played of PoR. Ike is a shounen protagonist. Kind, Fights for his friends, not terribly smart, loves to eat, etc. hell he even has a rival character in the black knight! I’m not saying it’s a bad thing(I absolutely love battle shounen stories after all). It’s just an observation.

Actually Ike not being kind is one of the things that helps set him apart from the other lords. Ike is a good guy but not always a nice one. He's very rough and can be pretty rude and judgmental. If they're not true warriors Ike can often seen mocking his enemies in their boss conversation though many admittingly do deserve that. 

[Benice]

25 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Actually Ike not being kind is one of the things that helps set him apart from the other lords. Ike is a good guy but not always a nice one. He's very rough and can be pretty rude and judgmental. If they're not true warriors Ike can often seen mocking his enemies in their boss conversation though many admittingly do deserve that. 

I mean, if we're getting wordy, then Ike is KIND but not nice. Being kind is doing something that will help someone else, even if it's not nice, such as saying, "Hey, you shouldn't be fighting because you suck at it." It's not a nice thing to say, but it would save your life.

[vanguard333]

4 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I mean from what little I’ve played of PoR. Ike is a shounen protagonist. Kind, Fights for his friends, not terribly smart, loves to eat, etc. hell he even has a rival character in the black knight! I’m not saying it’s a bad thing(I absolutely love battle shounen stories after all). It’s just an observation.

Ike can't be a shonen protagonist; his hair isn't nearly big or spiky enough. Then again, Saitama's bald, but he's also a parody and his baldness is part of the joke, so...

 

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, Ike is so not generic lol. At least compared to other FE lords. He's the most unique out of them imo. But you can explain it better than I, even if you write more of an essay than I would. 😛

Thanks for the vote of confidence (sincerely: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SincerityMode)

By the way, would you agree that it's in poor taste to judge a game that you didn't really pay attention to? 

 

20 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Actually Ike not being kind is one of the things that helps set him apart from the other lords. Ike is a good guy but not always a nice one. He's very rough and can be pretty rude and judgmental. If they're not true warriors Ike can often seen mocking his enemies in their boss conversation though many admittingly do deserve that. 

I would argue that Ike is kind in his own way; he just has no sense of etiquette and he will tell it like it is. He's never actually meaning to be rude or judgemental except when he wants to tell someone who's in the wrong the reason a "the reason you suck" speech (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReasonYouSuckSpeech). In the case of those enemies, it's very much like his speech at Sanaki, though with a lot less anger:

Quote

Chapter 8: Karuma vs Ike

Karuma: You fool… What are you doing on the front line? This is no place for an officer! If you die, your army loses. Soldiers fight; officers lead. That is the foundation of war!

Ike: Hate to tell you this, but I’m not an officer, and I’m not in the military. I fight with my men, and I bleed with my men. I lead the Greil Mercenaries. If I can’t fight, I’ve no right to lead.

Karuma: Bah! This is war, not some child’s game! The only thing that matters here is who fights and who dies.

Quote

Chapter 9: Kotaff vs Ike

Kotaff: So, you are the new commander… Tell me, boy, what cowardly tactics did you employ to fell our brothers? You must have deceived them. There’s no way rabble like you could defeat Daein troops in a fair fight.

Ike: From the very beginning, every last one of you has underestimated us. Will you never learn? Your refusal to recognize our strength will forever keep victory at arm’s length.

Kotaff: Silence! Silence, you idiot child!

Ike: You’re right. No more talk.

 

Anyway, what was I doing? Oh yeah; I was supposed to be telling CH0D why Ike isn't generic. Eh; I'll do that tomorrow. 

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Thanks for the vote of confidence (sincerely: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SincerityMode)

By the way, would you agree that it's in poor taste to judge a game that you didn't really pay attention to? 

No prob! 🙂

And yeah, that would kinda be in poor taste, I think.

7 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I would argue that Ike is kind in his own way; he just has no sense of etiquette and he will tell it like it is. He's never actually meaning to be rude or judgemental except when he wants to tell someone who's in the wrong the reason a "the reason you suck" speech (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReasonYouSuckSpeech). In the case of those enemies, it's very much like his speech at Sanaki, though with a lot less anger:

Yeah, this is really true too! I mean, Ike is always said to be blunt, after all. That's what it means to tell it like it is. Ike also won't say more than needs to be said, he hates that. He's a man of few words and not great with talk. Even says so in Heroes. I actually relate to him on that. I'm no good with talk either... Pretty much why I'm not as good as you at explaining this stuff, vanguard333.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I think *most* lords aren't really all that generic, honestly. There's my unpopular hot take. Ike, Lyn, Hector, Micaiah, Edelgard, Claude, Dimitri, Sigurd, Leif, Ephraim, Chrom, Lucina...even Marth.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

By the way, would you agree that it's in poor taste to judge a game that you didn't really pay attention to? 

No. When a game fails to hold someones attention, that is a notable criticism of a game, that shouldn't to be dismissed out of hand.

[vanguard333]

8 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

No. When a game fails to hold someones attention, that is a notable criticism of a game, that shouldn't to be dismissed out of hand.

Okay; I worded it a bit poorly. A person criticizing a game for failing to hold their attention is fine, but that person making grand assertions about the characters or the gameplay or the story when they didn't pay any attention to that stuff is in poor taste.

If I criticized a movie because I went in excited to see it, but ended up falling asleep 10 minutes in, that would be fair. If I then made all kinds of assertions about character who appears in the first five minutes but whose most relevant moments happen twenty minutes after the movie starts, it would be in bad taste if I started saying, "That character was pointless and could've been removed from the movie". 

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, this is really true too! I mean, Ike is always said to be blunt, after all. That's what it means to tell it like it is. Ike also won't say more than needs to be said, he hates that. He's a man of few words and not great with talk. Even says so in Heroes. I actually relate to him on that. I'm no good with talk either... Pretty much why I'm not as good as you at explaining this stuff, vanguard333.

Ah, thanks. I'm no good with talk either, but unlike most who aren't good at talking, I'm a talk-a-lot with a tendency to ramble instead of a blunt person-of-few-words. I only got good at this stuff after watching a bunch of videos on character and story analysis and debating/discussing this stuff, and the reason I watched all those videos was to help me with my own novel writing. 

 

22 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I think *most* lords aren't really all that generic, honestly. There's my unpopular hot take. Ike, Lyn, Hector, Micaiah, Edelgard, Claude, Dimitri, Sigurd, Leif, Ephraim, Chrom, Lucina...even Marth.

Hm... Don't know enough about Lyn or Hector as I have yet to play their game, I can't say anything about Dimitri or Claude as I've only played Crimson Flower so far, and I can't say anything about Leif, Sigurd or Ephraim. 

Ike is definitely not generic, Micaiah definitely isn't, Edelgard definitely isn't, Lucina... isn't, Chrom… eh... he's a bit bland on the surface; there is some depth and uniqueness to him, but it's underutilized within the story itself. I wouldn't say he's generic, but he isn't nearly as stand-out as he could be. Marth... he has his moments; the main problem with trying to judge him as a character is that he comes from a game with an extremely barebones script. 

[Anacybele]

32 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Ah, thanks. I'm no good with talk either, but unlike most who aren't good at talking, I'm a talk-a-lot with a tendency to ramble instead of a blunt person-of-few-words. I only got good at this stuff after watching a bunch of videos on character and story analysis and debating/discussing this stuff, and the reason I watched all those videos was to help me with my own novel writing. 

Oh, cool, I see! That's interesting to know. I can definitely end up rambling when I'm talking about a topic I'm really really into, but otherwise... Yeah, I'm generally terrible at explaining things.

I agree Chrom is rather bland and tries too hard to be a mix of Marth and Ike. I think his outfit is kind of dumb too, but Awakening in general has bad outfit designs if you ask me.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I agree Chrom is rather bland and tries too hard to be a mix of Marth and Ike. I think his outfit is kind of dumb too, but Awakening in general has bad outfit designs if you ask me.

Armor designs maybe but I’ll be damned if it doesn’t have the best character design in the series. All of these characters just exude so much personality from their official art and portraits. There are just so many subtle details to their designs that I just love and help make the character really distinctive and memorable. 
 

I’d argue that Chrom isn’t all that bland but that’s just me. Shounen protagonist he may be but he certainly has his moments of growth and character development. The foil relationship he has with walhart is pretty interesting and I absolutely love the bromance between him and Robin(Female Chrobin is a bad ship fight me) plus he’s a dork and I love him. Also I like his relationship with Lissa. Never thought I’d see a realistic portrayal of a little sister in an anime-esque game but here we are.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Ottservia said:

Female Chrobin is a bad ship fight me

Nah, I agree with this point at least. That ship is awful. The support chain just completely ruins it imo. I mean, disregarding any possible romance, the whole walking in on one another naked thing is hilarious. But NOT a way to build a romance at all, that is just entirely stupid.

It also doesn't help that I see that pairing in basically every other Awakening fanart and fanfic and hardly any other female Robin pairing is seen... I'm just tired of seeing the pairing too.

I do admit I liked the moment when Chrom said he was kind of jealous of Walhart's willingness to do what he does, but Frederick advised him that he's just fine the way he is, and that's the biggest reason why he serves him. And that he could not serve someone like Walhart.

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Nah, I agree with this point at least. That ship is awful. The support chain just completely ruins it imo. I mean, disregarding any possible romance, the whole walking in on one another naked thing is hilarious. But NOT a way to build a romance at all, that is just entirely stupid.

You clearly have not seen any harem or trashy light novel anime, have you? Cause the walking in on a girl naked is a romance anime trope as old as time itself so that in particular doesn’t bother me. Really for me what it boils down to is the fact that the ship is just really boring and everywhere!! Like it’s not a terrible ship but come on guys it’s so basic!! Male Chrobin is better. Plus I just don’t like Female Robin in general so I’m biased there. I just don’t like her design and yes this is coming from the guy who loves characters like Hilda, Severa, Peri, Mae, and Lissa solely(well not solely but you get my meaning) for their hairstyle. 

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Okay; I worded it a bit poorly. A person criticizing a game for failing to hold their attention is fine, but that person making grand assertions about the characters or the gameplay or the story when they didn't pay any attention to that stuff is in poor taste.

If I criticized a movie because I went in excited to see it, but ended up falling asleep 10 minutes in, that would be fair. If I then made all kinds of assertions about character who appears in the first five minutes but whose most relevant moments happen twenty minutes after the movie starts, it would be in bad taste if I started saying, "That character was pointless and could've been removed from the movie".

Hmmm. . .interesting point.

My take is that a game so boring that it failed to capture you is a valid criticism.  BUT, it implies that there was a good-faith effort on the part of the critic.  Me saying that Thracia is bad wouldn't be in good faith, because I never attempted it.  Me saying that Genealogy's first gen is bad would have a bit more merit, since I've started the game multiple times, and haven't made it to the second gen.

Basically, you'll need to read the rest of the critique to determine whether or not the critic gave the media a fair shot.

[Eurydice]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Nah, I agree with this point at least. That ship is awful. The support chain just completely ruins it imo. I mean, disregarding any possible romance, the whole walking in on one another naked thing is hilarious. But NOT a way to build a romance at all, that is just entirely stupid.

I thought that people liked that ship because girls ship themselves with Chrom and Chrom/Robin is the closest you are ever going to get to that happening, as you take the role of Robin ?

Also why people hated on Sumia, because she gets in the way of a romance with Chrom.

 

Anyways, I never saw Chrom/ Robin shipping as that deep, just Chrom fangirling.