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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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15 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

When exactly does he make this "growth"? Over the five years we don't see?

Over the course of the game.

In the very beginning he runs away and leaves everyone behind, his tactical retreat is him saving his own ass.

Then in Part 1, he doesn't trust anyone, attempts to use Byleth, and tries to gain power. Over the course of part 1, around Eagle and Lion, he opens up a bit and starts to share a bit of his own, and becomes more friendly (his b-supports), with the promise to meet everyone else 5 years later. His search for power also decreases, and it becomes more of a ''want a place to belong and allies'' thing. And post time skip he then opens up more, until he completely open up at the bridge.

Might be a bit subtle, but it's there.

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4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Over the course of the game.

In the very beginning he runs away and leaves everyone behind, his tactical retreat is him saving his own ass.

Then in Part 1, he doesn't trust anyone, attempts to use Byleth, and tries to gain power. Over the course of part 1, around Eagle and Lion, he opens up a bit and starts to share a bit of his own, and becomes more friendly (his b-supports), with the promise to meet everyone else 5 years later. His search for power also decreases, and it becomes more of a ''want a place to belong and allies'' thing. And post time skip he then opens up more, until he completely open up at the bridge.

Might be a bit subtle, but it's there.

I feel like the main problem with it is that Claude’s is not well represented thematically throughout the course of the story considering its basically just a copy of silver snow. What I mean is it’s a lot of tell not show to put it simply. There’s really no build up or pay off with his character. Every chapter doesn’t really have any significant meaning to his character. He’s just kinda there for the most part. What thematic significance to his character are we supposed to take away from the conflict with Miklan or Lanato. Nothing really as far as I can remember. With Dimitri and Edelgard. Those two chapters are there to give you a better understanding of their goals and motivations. Claude you don’t really have that. Much of what happens in part one has very little significance to Claude’s character

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34 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

What thematic significance to his character are we supposed to take away from the conflict with Miklan or Lanato.

Claude wants to find the truth. The whole situation with Miklan/Lonato is another hint to what the truth is. Edelgard & Dimitri kinda have clear goals, Claude wants to find the truth, and what the church really is.

34 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Much of what happens in part one has very little significance to Claude’s character

I really disagree with this, as part one is develops him into what he is in part 2. Without his Class, without his Friends, without his search for information, Claude isn't Claude.

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2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Claude wants to find the truth. The whole situation with Miklan/Lonato is another hint to what the truth is. Edelgard & Dimitri kinda have clear goals, Claude wants to find the truth, and what the church really is.

I really disagree with this, as part one is develops him into what he is in part 2. Without his Class, without his Friends, without his search for information, Claude isn't Claude.

And there highlights another problem with Claude. How does his backstory and overarching end goals(opening foldlan’s throat) fit into that goal. To my knowledge the two goals are completely separate from one another. How does finding out the truth really help with his other goal? They don’t connect. Why does he need to know the truth? How does knowing it help with his goal of opening relations with Almyra? Again I could be misremembering as it’s been a while since I’ve played VW but to my knowledge there isn’t an answer to those questions. It feels like two separate character arcs here that don’t really feed into one another which is a running problem with 3H’s story I noticed(looking at you Annette)

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Again I could be misremembering as it’s been a while since I’ve played VW but to my knowledge there isn’t an answer to those questions.

Because it's believed in Fodlan that the church frowns upon relations with the outside (Lorenz mentions as much and  Claude denies it after, yet it's a widely popular belief.)

Knowing the turth also helps with bringing people together and how they aren't that different.

Also, Characters can have more then one arc 😉

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On 2/23/2020 at 6:13 PM, Jotari said:

That would be great if Claude's allegiance actually wasn't completely on Dimitri's side in all scenarios. It's Romance of the Two Kingdoms against the slightly bigger Kingdom.

To be fair the original Romance of the Three Kingdoms was also mostly the Romance of Two Kingdoms against a bigger kingdom. And considering Koei did much of the heavy lifting I don't think its a coincidence that the Fodlandian kingdoms are organized the same way.

The Adrestian Empire is very much Wei. The larger kingdom the other two must unite against. And in the Three Kingdoms relation the Alliance most closely resembles Wu meaning they are the third wheel in a conflict that doesn't really involve them much. 

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29 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Because it's believed in Fodlan that the church frowns upon relations with the outside (Lorenz mentions as much and  Claude denies it after, yet it's a widely popular belief.)

Knowing the turth also helps with bringing people together and how they aren't that different.

Also, Characters can have more then one arc 😉

That doesn’t really answer my question though. How does finding Rhea and learning the truth about crests help further Claude’s goals in anyway? That is the question I am asking.

I never said characters can’t have two different character arcs. I’m saying those arcs should connect and feed into one other which they don’t in this case as far as I can tell.

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4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

ow does finding Rhea and learning the truth about crests help further Claude’s goals in anyway?

Claude would prefer Rhea gone, actually, but he is also allied with the Knights of Seiros in the war. Not to mention finding the truth will help him in making people go along and getting rid of nobility.

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4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Claude would prefer Rhea gone, actually, but he is also allied with the Knights of Seiros in the war. Not to mention finding the truth will help him in making people go along and getting rid of nobility.

Still doesn’t answer my question. How does learning the truth about crests connect with his overall goal of ending racism? I can see how uniting the continent would help with that, but how does knowing the truth about crests and the agarthans help with that? It really doesn’t as far as I’m aware.

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Just now, Ottservia said:

How does learning the truth about crests connect with his overall goal of ending racism?

Truth about Crests -> abolish nobility & uniting continent -> People from different Statuses & Nations getting along -> People from Outside getting along with People from inside.

Not to mention he himself wants to know the truth, about what's been going on, and why Crests are so valued.

Also, at the beginning he was also searching for power, and why only certain people can use crest weapons. Even if later Power wasn't as important to him, he still wants the truth.

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Were everyone in 3H to get a DW costume, should they go on appearance, alliance or personality?

  • Edel would obviously get Cao Cao she can murder some swine if she prefers red to imperial purple.
  • But would Dim really look best as Liu Bei? Dim might be better off with Zhao Yun or Ma Chao b/c of shared weapon, or Xiahou Dun due to sameness of missing an eye.
  • Claude, does he want Sun Ce or Sun Quan?
  • If Hilda wants to stay in Wu to match Claude, does she pick Shangxiang or Lianshi?
  • Dedue's bulk, loyalty, and a touch of his skin tone might be best matched by stealing Huang Gai from Wu.
  • Who would Rhea get, Zhang Chunhua?
  • Yet, Chunhua's husband might be best handed to Hubert? Or does Hubert time travel to Japan for Kanbei? Or is Guo Huai befitting him visually?
  • Would get Zhuge Liang? Byleth? Or Seth or a teacher?
  • *Sigh*, Jeritza would be very likely to get Lu Bu. Now stay dead nuisance!
  • Ashe is boyish, Guan Suo is boyish, a match? 
  • Lu Xun and Ignatz?
  • Xu Zhu and Raphael? Or Deng Ai instead?

 

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9 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

To be fair the original Romance of the Three Kingdoms was also mostly the Romance of Two Kingdoms against a bigger kingdom. And considering Koei did much of the heavy lifting I don't think its a coincidence that the Fodlandian kingdoms are organized the same way.

The Adrestian Empire is very much Wei. The larger kingdom the other two must unite against. And in the Three Kingdoms relation the Alliance most closely resembles Wu meaning they are the third wheel in a conflict that doesn't really involve them much. 

Someone already said pretty much exactly this in response to me. My response was.

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

I haven't read the book, but I know it's a massively big story with a metric fuck tonne of characters, so I expect the idea of a wildcard nation has a lot more opportunity to breath there. Because Claude's wildcard status never actually comes in to play. He vanishes from the story because of the one lord deployment limit, but there's never a real break down between the alliance and kingdom (and this is somehow despite the fact that they actively fight each other on Gronder!?).

 

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15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Were everyone in 3H to get a DW costume, should they go on appearance, alliance or personality?

  • Edel would obviously get Cao Cao she can murder some swine if she prefers red to imperial purple.
  • But would Dim really look best as Liu Bei? Dim might be better off with Zhao Yun or Ma Chao b/c of shared weapon, or Xiahou Dun due to sameness of missing an eye.
  • Claude, does he want Sun Ce or Sun Quan?
  • If Hilda wants to stay in Wu to match Claude, does she pick Shangxiang or Lianshi?
  • Dedue's bulk, loyalty, and a touch of his skin tone might be best matched by stealing Huang Gai from Wu.
  • Who would Rhea get, Zhang Chunhua?
  • Yet, Chunhua's husband might be best handed to Hubert? Or does Hubert time travel to Japan for Kanbei? Or is Guo Huai befitting him visually?
  • Would get Zhuge Liang? Byleth? Or Seth or a teacher?
  • *Sigh*, Jeritza would be very likely to get Lu Bu. Now stay dead nuisance!
  • Ashe is boyish, Guan Suo is boyish, a match? 
  • Lu Xun and Ignatz?
  • Xu Zhu and Raphael? Or Deng Ai instead?

This is a great idea, actually.
Here are my suggestions:

  • Edelgard would get Cao Cao's costume, because duh.
  • Dimitri, while similar to Liu Bei, gets Wen Yang, because in DW8, Wen Yang has the same battle stance as Dimitri when using a lance and some attack animations are similar, too; or indeed Xiahou Dun because of the missing eye thing
  • Of the Sun family, Claude would be best as Sun Quan, since he's not much of a warrior and Sun Ce's outfit fits a Warrior type best, in my opinion.
  • We could give Sun Ce to a playable Nader, come to think of it
  • Hilda gets Lianshi. Though her personality would make her more compatible with Bao Sanniang. I can't believe I just said this *shudders*
  • Dedue gets Guan Yu minus the beard
  • I'd personally see Zhang Chunhua's costume on someone like Dorothea rather than Rhea
  • Hubert has to have Jia Chong or maybe Fa Zheng
  • Byleth gets Sima Shi minus the eye mask (I'd rather keep it, honestly, just because it looks good)
  • Zhuge Liang would fit Claude, too, come to think of it. Master Tactician, anyone? But since he gets Sun Quan, Zhuge Liang goes to Seteth.
  • Jeritza with Lu Bu's costume makes almost too much sense
  • Ashe as a younger version of Huang Zhong would be cool, but Guan Suo would be good, too.
  • Ignatz as Zhu Ran, because both use bows. Personality-wise, Lu Xun fits better
  • Raphael, I can see as Ding Feng
  • Lysithea as Wang Yuanji, maybe?
  • Marianne as Daqiao. Both are rather soft-spoken
  • Annette as Guan Yinping, because of the whole scatterbrain/"doing my best!" thing they both have going on
  • Lorenz, I see as either Zhong Hui or Ling Tong. All three of them are rather arrogant
  • give the one who didn't go to Lorenz to Ferdinand
  • Sylvain as Zhang Fei or Zhang Bao
  • Felix as Zhou Tai or Guan Xing
  • Ingrid as Xingcai or Sun Shangxiang (her family is technically from the alliance, after all)
  • speaking of Dorothea, she'd fit well as Diaochan, too. We'd need to give her a support with Jeritza to go along with it
  • Hanneman as Zuo Ci, because they share a voice actor in English (in DW8, at the very least)
  • Flayn as Xiaoqiao
  • Caspar as Yue Jin
  • Linhardt as Li Dian
  • Petra as Zhurong or Wang Yi
  • Mercedes as Cai Wenji
  • fun option: Bernadetta as Zhang Liao

Get on that, IntSys!

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On 2/4/2020 at 3:41 PM, Slumber said:

Also, how are you guys forgetting Aversa?

She's straight up wearing battle underwear, AND has a crush on her sibling. She might be the most fanservice-y thing in all of Fire Emblem. Even Camilla looks conservative next to her.

Honestly there was no reason at all for Aversa to call male Robin, Big Brother, aside from fanservice.

  1. Validar never considered her a daughter per her own words.
  2. Aversa always hated him once the magic spell was broken
  3. Robin never knew Validar and was never raised by him
  4. Validar kidnapped her as a teenager and used her as a slave, that isn't adoption in any way especially as  there was never any kind of feelings between any of them.
  5. Aversa never even calls female Robin a sibling nor mentions anything of it, instead they fight over Chrom.
On 2/4/2020 at 3:55 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

On the subject of Aversa, is the "adoptive sibling" thing even important when the two of them never met each other until the game's events? Like, really, Robin was taken from Validar as a baby while he only "adopted" Aversa years later. It's only "siblings" by technicality.

As mentioned above, Validar didn't even adopt her and calling her, his assistant.

The only reason, Aversa plays the big brother thing in male Robin's supports is for fetish appeal.

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8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

As mentioned above, Validar didn't even adopt her and calling her, his assistant.

The only reason, Aversa plays the big brother in male Robin's supports is for fetish appeal.

Well, I did put the word in quotation marks for a reason.

Anyway, if you want a Watsonian explanation, I'd just chalk it to Aversa being, well, Aversa. She's mostly only doing it to mess up with (male) Robin, so... eh... *shrugs*

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, I did put the word in quotation marks for a reason.

Anyway, if you want a Watsonian explanation, I'd just chalk it to Aversa being, well, Aversa. She's mostly only doing it to mess up with (male) Robin, so... eh... *shrugs*

Even with that, it makes no sense as Aversa hates Validar so why would she bring up the most traumatic experience of her life just for a joke.

Like I said, its just terrible writing.

Honestly Aversa being brainwashed as dumb to begin with as the writers squandered a chance to humanize the people who worshipped Grima. You'd think she'd have lost her parents to the Ylissean crusade, but no, Ylisse can do no wrong, just as Grimleal can do no right apparently.

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1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Even with that, it makes no sense as Aversa hates Validar so why would she bring up the most traumatic experience of her life just for a joke.

Like I said, its just terrible writing.

Honestly Aversa being brainwashed as dumb to begin with as the writers squandered a chance to humanize the people who worshipped Grima. You'd think she'd have lost her parents to the Ylissean crusade, but no, Ylisse can do no wrong, just as Grimleal can do no right apparently.

Well, people cope in different ways, I'd guess. Societies on the Ylissean continent ain't like societies here on Earth.

Now that sounds like a good idea.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, people cope in different ways, I'd guess. Societies on the Ylissean continent ain't like societies here on Earth.

Now that sounds like a good idea.

It definitely would.

Honestly how Awakening wastes the crusade against the Grimleal by depicting everyone in the religion as an evil dude who never mentions the crusade is my unpopular opinion. As is that the spot pass storyline are terrible, especially Aversa's "I only cared about the Grimleal because I was brainwashed the whole time and I really want the Grimleal dead."

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As for Dynasty Warriors outfits for the Three Houses cast. I do have some interest on the matter. 

-Edelgard: Cao Cao is her obvious parallel. They are both utterly ruthless but ultimately a benevolent force. Both align with people they intensely dislike for the greater good and if certain conditions are met Cao Cao can also step down once his goals are achieved, just like Edelgard. Alternatively she could also get an outfit based on Wang Yuanji since they are both cute, icy girls who are voiced by Tara Platt. 

-Dimitri: Shu is the Kingdom that most align with Faerghus but Dimitri isn't exactly Liu Bei. I think its Jiang Wei who would be the natural parallel for Dimitri. Both are good boi's who become corrupted by their experiences and eventually turn insane. And during his corruption Jiang Wei is in charge of Shu just as the insane Dimitri is in charge of Faerghus. 

-Claude: A Sun Quan outfit would do. When compared to his family members Sun Quan is very much a thinker over a fighter and Claude probably prefers to see himself in that light as well. 

-Ashe: I think Xiahou Ba would work really well. Ba and Ashe are both young, boyish and dorky and they both sides with a faction that caused the death of their father. Ashe loving knights so much compliments Ba's outfit since its pretty much a knight's armor. 

-Hubert: Definitely Jia Chong. They serve the same role as the ''fixer'' of their lord and they share their personality and goth color scheme. They both also take a certain glee in their dark acts. 

On 2/25/2020 at 1:49 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Or does Hubert time travel to Japan for Kanbei?

Probably Jia Chong over Kanbei. Its a recurring theme that Kanbei isn't nearly as evil as people think he is. While Hubert's goal are ultimately benevolent he enjoys the shady actions a bit too much to be wholly good. Kanbei is also pretty joyless in everything he does while Hubert bursts into evil laughs. 

-Lorenz Helman Gloucester: A Yuan Shao outfits since they are both noble twits. 

-The Death Knight: Do not pursue Jeritza

Thales: Thales would get a Dong Zhou outfit since both are irredeemable evil and not entirely competent. 

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1 hour ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Honestly Aversa being brainwashed as dumb to begin with as the writers squandered a chance to humanize the people who worshipped Grima. You'd think she'd have lost her parents to the Ylissean crusade, but no, Ylisse can do no wrong, just as Grimleal can do no right apparently.

Yeah honestly I just like to pretend those paralogues aren't canon. I don't think it ruins awakening's overall writing by any means(well except maybe the emmeryn one) but still they could've made Aversa recruitable without the retcon honestly. The only one I really like is the Gangrel one simply because Chrom's conversations with the guy are really good and showcase Chrom's growth ever since the first arc of the game. It's the reason I like Chrom a lot.

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7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Honestly there was no reason at all for Aversa to call male Robin, Big Brother, aside from fanservice.

  1. Validar never considered her a daughter per her own words.
  2. Aversa always hated him once the magic spell was broken
  3. Robin never knew Validar and was never raised by him
  4. Validar kidnapped her as a teenager and used her as a slave, that isn't adoption in any way especially as  there was never any kind of feelings between any of them.
  5. Aversa never even calls female Robin a sibling nor mentions anything of it, instead they fight over Chrom.

As mentioned above, Validar didn't even adopt her and calling her, his assistant.

The only reason, Aversa plays the big brother thing in male Robin's supports is for fetish appeal.

Been a long time since I read Aversa's supports from buy what I remember she calls Robin a big brother in a more trolling insincere fashion to annoy him than a genuine term of endearment. The point is that they're not really siblings and it bothers Robin.

4 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah honestly I just like to pretend those paralogues aren't canon. I don't think it ruins awakening's overall writing by any means(well except maybe the emmeryn one) but still they could've made Aversa recruitable without the retcon honestly. The only one I really like is the Gangrel one simply because Chrom's conversations with the guy are really good and showcase Chrom's growth ever since the first arc of the game. It's the reason I like Chrom a lot.

Honestly they should have just gone the Yen Fey route for all of them and made them be from The Future Past (except Walhart, make him a risen who just maintains his mind through sheer badass like it's somewhat implied already). That doesn't have any contradictions with the main game and actually expands on the lore of the games original timeline. Best of both worlds.

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On 2/23/2020 at 5:00 PM, Ottservia said:

You already pointed out the class design but I would like to point out that the map design actually does kinda work for its world at least aesthetically. A lot of the levels that take place in hoshido have very bright lighting for one as these locations are constantly bathed in sunlight. The only map that doesn't follow that trend is the underground ninja hideout because well it's underground. Contrast that with a lot of maps that take place in nohr which is drenched in perpetual darkness. The nohrian fortress, the wolfskin level, Cheve, etc. Ironically the only map that doesn't really follow that pattern is the nohrian underground level in birthright. This goes to highlight the differences between the two nations and how they operate. 

Which leads me into my second point here, Fates's world building is very much constructed in a way to completely highlight the differences between Hoshido and Nohr. That's the one thing that's consistently emphasized in every aspect of it's world building. Fates is a narrative about forging trust between two divided kingdoms(or if you want get more specific it's more so about how you should believe in the trust you've forged with those closest to you) that much I am certain and the world building is in service to that overarching theme. The "light" of nohr(as in the bustling market place where the city truly comes alive) exists underground, beneath the surface as it were. And when you think about what happens in that chapter(y'know Ryoma coming to understand there's more to Nohr than just mindless violence), it's kind of a literal showcase that the Nohrian people are not what they appear to be on the surface. Underneath that cold and militant reputation exists a society full of regular happy people that just wanna live normal lives. When you take the time to look beyond the surface, new truths are revealed to you and you can begin to forge a bond of trust. That is essentially what Fates's story is about. Fates's world building may not be much but it does do what it needs to in order to craft the narrative it wants to tell. 

I understand what you're getting at. The differences between Hoshido and Nohr are reinforced through the visuals, and indeed, far more than I realized. I do have to give the game credit for that.

The issue I and several others have with this worldbuilding is that while it works for the main story, it only works for the main story. The world of Fates seems like it was made solely to tell the tales of Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation, and not anything else. While this has the advantage of keeping the narrative focused and prevents it from being tripped up on unnecessary details, it also unfortunately leads to several things coming off as artificial.

The Ice tribe is just there to reinforce that people oppose Nohr and not much else, the shapeshifter levels are an excuse to have shapeshifter characters and they aren't shown to have much, if any, impact on the rest of the world. Characters like Shura and Fuga have backstories relevant to the main conflict, but once they say their piece, they're dropped to focus on the next plot point, despite having other interesting tidbits about them that could be expanded upon. Cut any of these things off from the main story, and they either don't stand on their own legs, or do so flimsily.

Good world building gives the impression that a fictional world could exist and continue on in its own right, regardless of what the current story is focusing on. The locations and characters of Fates serve their purpose, in narrative or gameplay or both, but remove them from that purpose and there is not much else to talk about. They're narrative devices when they could be more.

 

Something that did come to mind near the end of typing all this is that while Fates worldbulding leaves a lot to be desired, I don't blame it entirely on bad writing. Skewed priorities were definitely a huge factor in the game turning out as it did, but considering that IS had to write three full fledged stories in the time it takes to create one, I wouldn't be surprised that after writing the main plot, hundreds of supports, the dialogue in battle and in MyCastle, the context behind each level and gimmick and making sure units joined at the right times so that they aren't over- or under-powered at that part of the game, and the moment to moment scenes, that they simply ran out of time to flesh out the world. Far from saying that a rushed product can't have a good story or worldbuilding, but there is always a cost somewhere.

On 2/23/2020 at 5:00 PM, Ottservia said:

y'know for as much as I rag on SoV, I feel like it's one of the games that did world building the best with it's overworld and exploration system. You can actually visit and see these different villages. Each one has its own unique feel and atmosphere. You can talk to locals to get added world building and flavor text or even get their general opinions on current events within the story and world. It's really quite impressive.

I find that while Echoes main plot is most certainly flawed, several aspects surrounding it are surprisingly well done. Dialogue, voice acting, the setting, how it deconstructs the "militaristic bad guy empire and peaceful good guy kingdom" and "evil cult" tropes (among others) that are prevalent in the series, and more. While not flawlessly executed, these are implemented better than people give it credit for, and are a reason I can enjoy going through the story despite its missteps. These side details are commonly glossed over when discussing Fire Emblem stories, when they're actually pulled off rather well the majority of the time.

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4 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I understand what you're getting at. The differences between Hoshido and Nohr are reinforced through the visuals, and indeed, far more than I realized. I do have to give the game credit for that.

The issue I and several others have with this worldbuilding is that while it works for the main story, it only works for the main story. The world of Fates seems like it was made solely to tell the tales of Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation, and not anything else. While this has the advantage of keeping the narrative focused and prevents it from being tripped up on unnecessary details, it also unfortunately leads to several things coming off as artificial.

The Ice tribe is just there to reinforce that people oppose Nohr and not much else, the shapeshifter levels are an excuse to have shapeshifter characters and they aren't shown to have much, if any, impact on the rest of the world. Characters like Shura and Fuga have backstories relevant to the main conflict, but once they say their piece, they're dropped to focus on the next plot point, despite having other interesting tidbits about them that could be expanded upon. Cut any of these things off from the main story, and they either don't stand on their own legs, or do so flimsily.

Good world building gives the impression that a fictional world could exist and continue on in its own right, regardless of what the current story is focusing on. The locations and characters of Fates serve their purpose, in narrative or gameplay or both, but remove them from that purpose and there is not much else to talk about. They're narrative devices when they could be more.

 

Something that did come to mind near the end of typing all this is that while Fates worldbulding leaves a lot to be desired, I don't blame it entirely on bad writing. Skewed priorities were definitely a huge factor in the game turning out as it did, but considering that IS had to write three full fledged stories in the time it takes to create one, I wouldn't be surprised that after writing the main plot, hundreds of supports, the dialogue in battle and in MyCastle, the context behind each level and gimmick and making sure units joined at the right times so that they aren't over- or under-powered at that part of the game, and the moment to moment scenes, that they simply ran out of time to flesh out the world. Far from saying that a rushed product can't have a good story or worldbuilding, but there is always a cost somewhere.

that is definitely a fair assessment I can get behind. Fates is a really weird beast because I honestly do not think it's nearly as bad as people say it is and a lot of complaints I do hear don't really hold much water in my opinion. Fates certainly has it's flaws but I feel like a lot of people are misplacing their criticisms or blowing small things way out of proportion. The vallite curse is a relatively minor thing that I personally don't see much issue with for instance but I can see how it can bother some people. I don't think Corrin is a mary sue. They just kinda feel like a harem protagonist at times I feel(especially in supports cause in supports they're definitely written like one). Also the game is clumsy with it's portrayal of trust where Corrin is supposed to be that center of truth and trust but they overplay it sometimes which can get a bit annoying. Then again I hate the term mary sue in general. It's just a buzzword that has no meaning anymore. The biggest weaknesses of fates's writing in my opinion is its world building and its villain writing cause boy are those just not that good. Also the fanservice in fates is just way too much. I'll defend all the fates characters with my dying breath but as someone who consumes an unhealthy amount of japanese media, You can tell that a lot of these characters were written with fetish first, character second. I should know. I am apart of the demographic these very fetishes are pandering to and I know when I'm being pandered to. I've seen enough trashy harem/isekai light novel adaptations to understand that much at least. I know imouto fetish pandering when I see it. You can't fool me developers!!

18 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I find that while Echoes main plot is most certainly flawed, several aspects surrounding it are surprisingly well done. Dialogue, voice acting, the setting, how it deconstructs the "militaristic bad guy empire and peaceful good guy kingdom" and "evil cult" tropes (among others) that are prevalent in the series, and more. While not flawlessly executed, these are implemented better than people give it credit for, and are a reason I can enjoy going through the story despite its missteps. These side details are commonly glossed over when discussing Fire Emblem stories, when they're actually pulled off rather well the majority of the time.

I'm actually doing a third playthrough of echoes right now to sort go back through the story and reaffirm my thoughts on it and honestly it's been pretty enjoyable experience. Thematic inconsistencies aside, SoV's presentation is certainly something to behold. The voice acting, music, art, aesthetics all makes for a very comfortable experience. The character personalities are fun and charming and the voice acting really helps bring them to life. Too bad there's not much else to them beyond that, but hey what do I know good character writing? My favorite character is a one dimensional fetish pandering tsundere from a cast full of nothing but one note characters so obviously I couldn't possibly understand what makes for good character writing. I apologize for the sarcasm but I've been burned by this fandom far too much over the years. I couldn't help it. 

44 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Honestly they should have just gone the Yen Fey route for all of them and made them be from The Future Past (except Walhart, make him a risen who just maintains his mind through sheer badass like it's somewhat implied already). That doesn't have any contradictions with the main game and actually expands on the lore of the games original timeline. Best of both worlds.

I agree with this though Emmeryn would still be dead. Speaking of I wish IS would just characters who are going to die playable with supports cause that would make their deaths hit so much harder. They need to stop chickening out on that honestly.

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