What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Funny enough Byleth is probably the least problematic thing in 3H for me. I actually really like Byleth. They're written like a persona protagonist and that's always a fun time. IS actually handled this part of Byleth's character well and I like how their arc is essentially them being a kuudere where in they gradually learn to properly express their emotions through their interactions with their students. It's an interesting that I rather somewhat like. My main issue with 3H though is how it handles a lot of it's world building, pacing of it's story, and three paths plot structure which really wasn't needed in all honesty.

I like the idea behind Byleth a lot, but I think the fact that they're a silent protagonist rather than just a quiet one hinders quite a bit. It's hard to really buy them opening up when I still don't hear them talk. Byleth not being a big talker makes sense, but completely mute doesn't (half the so called dialogue choices in the game have the exact same reaction and are just there to have Byleth say something at all).

[Rapaille]

6 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Funny enough Byleth is probably the least problematic thing in 3H for me. I actually really like Byleth. They're written like a persona protagonist and that's always a fun time. IS actually handled this part of Byleth's character well and I like how their arc is essentially them being a kuudere where in they gradually learn to properly express their emotions through their interactions with their students. It's an interesting that I rather somewhat like. My main issue with 3H though is how it handles a lot of it's world building, pacing of it's story, and three paths plot structure which really wasn't needed in all honesty.

I also like the idea behind Byleth being a introvert (that's what kuudere is right?) and learning to open up to other people. My main problem comes from how we are told how important he is but those factors never actually being expanded on. Like fusing with a god. Besides escaping the void, it never actually plays an important in the story or really affects the story besides Rhea trying to awake Sothis by having him sit on a throne (which she would probably also have done if he didn't fuse with Sothis because that's her entire goal). Byleth could have escaped any other way and it wouldn't change the story. 

Pacing of the story however is something I 100% agree with. In the first half almost nothing happens of importance until the last 2 chapters. The first half basically goes...

Spoiler

You are mercenary, now you are teacher, have a drill, kill bandits, kill rebellions, kill heretics, get Godword, kill Sylvain's brother who turns into a monster, search for Flayn, have big mock battle, save village, character which hasn't played an important role in story yet turns out to be Palpatine with a brain tumor, inspect abandoned search, daddy dies, kill the woman who killed him, enter the void, become god and leave the void, kill Palpatine, sit on throne, Edelgard is a heretic, protect or capture church.

Basically the first half is setup and the pay-of is super fast and after that the story basically is set in motion without any big surprises (except Verdant Wind & Silver Snow where a final battle is shoved in at the end without any setup). The world building suffers from the same issues (despite personally not having an issue with it). It all comes from exposition dumps in the first half with almost nothing being added in the second half.

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

I also like the idea behind Byleth being a introvert (that's what kuudere is right?)

A Kuudere is basically a character archetype when a character starts off as seemingly emotionless or actually emotionless but gradually over time learns to properly express those emotions due to the influence of other characters(in most cases the protagonist) another prominent FE example of this archetype is Beruka. 

 

2 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

My main problem comes from how we are told how important he is but those factors never actually being expanded on. Like fusing with a god. Besides escaping the void, it never actually plays an important in the story or really affects the story besides Rhea trying to awake Sothis by having him sit on a throne (which she would probably also have done if he didn't fuse with Sothis because that's her entire goal). Byleth could have escaped any other way and it wouldn't change the story. 

Y’know you have a point there. Honestly a lot of things brought up in 3H don’t really have any relevance to the main plot. Like Edelgard’s backstory for example. Honestly you could pretty much out right remove the whole human experimentation aspect of her backstory and not much of the story would really change. Then  there’s the whole tragedy mess that I went over earlier in this thread.

[Strullemia]

3 hours ago, Ottservia said:

A Kuudere is basically a character archetype when a character starts off as seemingly emotionless or actually emotionless but gradually over time learns to properly express those emotions due to the influence of other characters(in most cases the protagonist) another prominent FE example of this archetype is Beruka. 

 

Y’know you have a point there. Honestly a lot of things brought up in 3H don’t really have any relevance to the main plot. Like Edelgard’s backstory for example. Honestly you could pretty much out right remove the whole human experimentation aspect of her backstory and not much of the story would really change. Then  there’s the whole tragedy mess that I went over earlier in this thread.

Those events shaped Edelgard into the person she is. You can't get rid of them or she would be an entirely different character and since Edelgard plays a very important role in the overall story you'd also mess up the entire story.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Strullemia

[Etrurian emperor]

I'd say Edelgard's past experimentation are vital to her character. Its true that those events did not inspire the target of her ire but it does explain why Edelgard is so devoted to her ideals. Her entire family was tortured to death and she's desperate to ensure they hadn't died for nothing. If she uses the power those experiments gave her to reforge the world then she can tell herself that they at least died for something. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Strullemia said:

Those events shaped Edelgard into the person she is. You can't get rid of them or she would be an entirely different character and since Edelgard plays a very important role in the overall story you'd also mess up the entire story.

 

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd say Edelgard's past experimentation are vital to her character. Its true that those events did not inspire the target of her ire but it does explain why Edelgard is so devoted to her ideals. Her entire family was tortured to death and she's desperate to ensure they hadn't died for nothing. If she uses the power those experiments gave her to reforge the world then she can tell herself that they at least died for something. 

Was discussing this in the tragedy of Three Houses thread yesterday. I'm going to quote what I said there here.

On 3/3/2020 at 12:04 AM, Jotari said:

Suspension of disbelief will be different for everyone, but I, and I'm sure many, have to do some mental gymnastics to justify blaming someone else for your torture and allying with the people who actually tortured you to carry that out. Aside from that I agree with what you're saying. Edelgard's torture backstory manages to obviously be very important to her and inform her actions...while simultaneously being somewhat superfluous. I could more easily buy Edelgard's entire actions without the torture, if her view of Rhea and the crest system was simply her own way of looking at the world (possibly with some of being raised by Ionus). I'm quite sure the real reason for the backstory is a meta one to derive sympathy for Edelgard from the player.

Basically why yes it's obviously informing her actions, she could just go around doing the exact same things by being a person that's ambitious and driven. Making it based on torture makes her relationship with the Agrathans and her actions over all much more questionable. If you removed the C support and played through the game without knowing anything about her tragic backstory, would you feel like you're missing a piece of vital information about the story?

[Bhoop]

I think the fandom is *too* critical of some of the franchises games. Criticism is good and all that, but I feel as if the fandom is *too* critical. 

[Icelerate]

Edelgard changing the status quo doesn't make her a better character than Dimitri just because he doesn't want to change the status quo as much as Edelgard. Nor does it make Edelgard a more likable character than Dimitri. 

For example, Deghinsea is a character who is extremely pro status quo yet I'd argue he's far more interesting than most characters in the series. I also think he's more likable than most villains in the series, even those that want to change the status quo for the better. 

[Deathcon]

1 hour ago, Bhoop said:

I think the fandom is *too* critical of some of the franchises games. Criticism is good and all that, but I feel as if the fandom is *too* critical. 

"Dimitri you already have a 333 damage output! Why don't you just give them a chance!?"

"Kill every last one of them!?"

*Crits random mook 15876 for 999 damage*

Dimitri = Fanbase

Mook 15876 = Fire Emblem Games

Byleth = People who like the game and don't want to hate it due to some other guy's opinion

[DragonFlames]

11 hours ago, Deathcon said:

"Dimitri you already have a 333 damage output! Why don't you just give them a chance!?"

"Kill every last one of them!?"

*Crits random mook 15876 for 999 damage*

Dimitri = Fanbase

Mook 15876 = Fire Emblem Games

Byleth = People who like the game and don't want to hate it due to some other guy's opinion

Byleth is me in that scenario.
Then again, I never was one to have my likes or dislikes influenced by other people.

---

Some more maybe unpopular opinions from me:

• Of the three final map themes in Three Houses, my favorite has become "A Funeral of Flowers". I like all of them, but I prefer this one to the other two
  (the map where it plays though, not so much, but I don't think this part is unpopular).
• I'd like it if the next Fire Emblem game had even more of a focus on high fantasy stuff. For example, I'd like a more in-depth look at how magic influences the world.

[Flere210]

18 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

 

• I'd like it if the next Fire Emblem game had even more of a focus on high fantasy stuff. For example, I'd like a more in-depth look at how magic influences the world.

I agree whit this so much. I hate when people have fucking magic and all they use it for is cooler looking artillery. Pretty much all fantasy settings i design take several clues out of the Tippyverse( a D&D fan setting created on the premise that magic is used at it's fullest.)

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

• I'd like it if the next Fire Emblem game had even more of a focus on high fantasy stuff. For example, I'd like a more in-depth look at how magic influences the world.

I think we're overdue for a more magic-focused FE. I also want to see more examples of magic affecting every day life in FE, rather than it just being something for nefarious purposes and combat.

For as many comparisons as FETH got to Harry Potter, that's one way in which they could really take inspiration from Harry Potter.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

More magic is fine by me. Though lets not go too blasé with the "world magic problems= thinly-veiled IRL environmental problems", I like the trope's intentions, but it's been a tad generically overdone. Having it as a secondary/regional concern within the world is fine, I just don't want it to predominate over everything else.

 

Which gets me thinking for a moment, has FE really ever had a country in a state of decline? Not something that starts the game or by being or soon becomes conquered, nor diabolically corrupted. And I'm not talking Rigel, Thracia, Ilia, Jehanna, Daein, or Nohr either, those are all from their founding resource-deprived. I'm envisioning a country that had a golden age some time recently, maybe two ~30-year-reigns-each monarchs ago they were at their absolute zenith. The country isn't quite irrelevant yet in geopolitics, but its power on the world stage has palpably thinned, and at least some of the political elite have some cognition of this worrying malaise.

The cause of the malaise shouldn't be a tyrant monarch ruling the country, it should be structural or systemic in some way.

• Maybe the silver mines are running dry as the king continues to be inundated with new debts. 
• Maybe a once-efficient administrative system has become bogged down with issues it didn't originally have to address. 
• Political corruption has bought some administrative offices amongst a noble elite that is now more rigidly established and lazier than it used to meritocratically be.
• Perhaps external factors have played a role, a once-divided country has unified into a powerful one and thus can now surpass this country even if it doesn't declines.
• Perhaps the enterprising merchants of another land found new lucrative trade routes that allow it to opt out of the trade network this declining country controlled.
• There could be the outcome of a few battles or wars affecting the declining country's fortunes, but losing said fights shouldn't jeopardize the existence of the country itself, it causes them to lose something, but something the country can totally survive without, even if it would be really really nice to have it.

How does someone make this explicable/entertaining to the masses though?

[Shrimpica]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

• I'd like it if the next Fire Emblem game had even more of a focus on high fantasy stuff. For example, I'd like a more in-depth look at how magic influences the world.

That would be really really cool.

Imagine an advanced Magictech society. Magic isn't just used for combat, but for everyday life as well.

Transport, industry, healthcare... everything!

Even how it effects politics!

Imagine a version of our world, but 'magic'fied'.

Yes, i would like that very much^^

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which gets me thinking for a moment, has FE really ever had a country in a state of decline?

hmm

does Begnion count?

[Fire Brand]

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

More magic is fine by me. Though lets not go too blasé with the "world magic problems= thinly-veiled IRL environmental problems", I like the trope's intentions, but it's been a tad generically overdone. Having it as a secondary/regional concern within the world is fine, I just don't want it to predominate over everything else.

 

Which gets me thinking for a moment, has FE really ever had a country in a state of decline? Not something that starts the game or by being or soon becomes conquered, nor diabolically corrupted. And I'm not talking Rigel, Thracia, Ilia, Jehanna, Daein, or Nohr either, those are all from their founding resource-deprived. I'm envisioning a country that had a golden age some time recently, maybe two ~30-year-reigns-each monarchs ago they were at their absolute zenith. The country isn't quite irrelevant yet in geopolitics, but its power on the world stage has palpably thinned, and at least some of the political elite have some cognition of this worrying malaise.

The cause of the malaise shouldn't be a tyrant monarch ruling the country, it should be structural or systemic in some way.

• Maybe the silver mines are running dry as the king continues to be inundated with new debts. 
• Maybe a once-efficient administrative system has become bogged down with issues it didn't originally have to address. 
• Political corruption has bought some administrative offices amongst a noble elite that is now more rigidly established and lazier than it used to meritocratically be.
• Perhaps external factors have played a role, a once-divided country has unified into a powerful one and thus can now surpass this country even if it doesn't declines.
• Perhaps the enterprising merchants of another land found new lucrative trade routes that allow it to opt out of the trade network this declining country controlled.
• There could be the outcome of a few battles or wars affecting the declining country's fortunes, but losing said fights shouldn't jeopardize the existence of the country itself, it causes them to lose something, but something the country can totally survive without, even if it would be really really nice to have it.

How does someone make this explicable/entertaining to the masses though?

For a FE country in a state of decline there's the obvious Grannvale 

[Etrurian emperor]

There's also Etruria which is in significant political decline. 

[Strullemia]

 

23 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

Was discussing this in the tragedy of Three Houses thread yesterday. I'm going to quote what I said there here.

Basically why yes it's obviously informing her actions, she could just go around doing the exact same things by being a person that's ambitious and driven. Making it based on torture makes her relationship with the Agrathans and her actions over all much more questionable. If you removed the C support and played through the game without knowing anything about her tragic backstory, would you feel like you're missing a piece of vital information about the story?

She works with TWSITD because she knows that they only succeeded in their plans in part because Fodlan's society is already messed up. Just getting rid off TWSITD won't solve everything. Just look at the tregedy of duscur, TWSITD was involved in that event but there were just as many people in the kingdom who wanted Lambert dead who weren't aligned with TWSITD.

----

Yes. Yes I would. Cutting her C support away would hurt Edelgard because it would be more difficult to understand where this character came from. Same thing with Dimitri. Dimitri's character also wouldn't make any sense if you got rid of the Tragedy of Duscur.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Strullemia

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, Strullemia said:

 

She works with TWSITD because she knows that they only succeeded in their plans in part because Fodlan's society is already messed up. Just getting rid off TWSITD won't solve everything. Just look at the tregedy of duscur, TWSITD was involved in that event but there were just as many people in the kingdom who wanted Lambert dead who weren't aligned with TWSITD.

----

Yes. Yes I would. Cutting her C support away would hurt Edelgard because it would be more difficult to understand where this character came from. Same thing with Dimitri. Dimitri's character also wouldn't make any sense if you got rid of the Tragedy of Duscur.

The Tragedy of Duscur is a much larger part of his backstory thatn Edelgard's C support. If you believe Edelgard as a character is unbelievable without her C support, then it also means you can't comprehend that someone would want to change Fodlan purely based on their own attitudes, which wouldn't be the case as you say Fodlan's society is messed up. If Fodlan's society is messed up, then Edelgard as a character can decide to change it. If Fodlan's society is messed up and Edelgard gets tortured, then it's irrelevant that Fodlan's society is messed up as Edelgard is not acting because of that, she's acting because she was tortured.

[DragonFlames]

18 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I agree whit this so much. I hate when people have fucking magic and all they use it for is cooler looking artillery. Pretty much all fantasy settings i design take several clues out of the Tippyverse( a D&D fan setting created on the premise that magic is used at it's fullest.)

I myself did an overhaul of my own fantasy setting to incorporate the possibilities and dangers magic brings a bit more.

16 hours ago, Slumber said:

I think we're overdue for a more magic-focused FE. I also want to see more examples of magic affecting every day life in FE, rather than it just being something for nefarious purposes and combat.

Speaking of combat, I'd like to see more spells that aren't just elemental variations of various beams. Three Houses had a chapter where a mage made fog to conceal his troops' movements. That's what I'd like to see so much more of: Magic that is used for more strategic purposes other than nuking things out of existence.

14 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

That would be really really cool.

Imagine an advanced Magictech society. Magic isn't just used for combat, but for everyday life as well.

Transport, industry, healthcare... everything!

Even how it effects politics!

Imagine a version of our world, but 'magic'fied'.

Yes, i would like that very much^^

Trails kinda does that with its Orbal Technology, doesn't it? But you're right. It would be cool to see that!

[Strullemia]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

The Tragedy of Duscur is a much larger part of his backstory thatn Edelgard's C support. If you believe Edelgard as a character is unbelievable without her C support, then it also means you can't comprehend that someone would want to change Fodlan purely based on their own attitudes, which wouldn't be the case as you say Fodlan's society is messed up. If Fodlan's society is messed up, then Edelgard as a character can decide to change it. If Fodlan's society is messed up and Edelgard gets tortured, then it's irrelevant that Fodlan's society is messed up as Edelgard is not acting because of that, she's acting because she was tortured.

The problem is that in this scenario the Edelgard you're talking about would just end up getting killed by TWSITD. It is exactly because of her relation with them that she ends up having the knowledge and ability that she can turn against them and rise above her past as a victim of torture.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Strullemia said:

The problem is that in this scenario the Edelgard you're talking about would just end up getting killed by TWSITD. It is exactly because of her relation with them that she ends up having the knowledge and ability that she can turn against them and rise above her past as a victim of torture.

I don't see how so. The incarnation I suggest is still working with them and planning to turn on them. The only difference is they didn't torture her and murder her entire family, which for me would make the working relationship she has with them much more palatable.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jotari

[Shrimpica]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Trails kinda does that with its Orbal Technology, doesn't it? But you're right. It would be cool to see that!

Trails is literally what i thought about while writing this xD

3H is already Cold Steel anyway, might as well go the full way

[DragonFlames]

2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Trails is literally what i thought about while writing this xD

3H is already Cold Steel anyway, might as well go the full way

Indeed.

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:15 PM, Shrimperor said:

hmm

does Begnion count?

I was thinking Begnion, in the sense that everyone else but Goldoa seceded from it. Though this is counterbalanced by it still being the continental superpower, it isn't quite past its prime yet. Maybe after RD it is by time of the postcredits scene though.

 

For all the other declining countries so far, I'm not getting a sense of the decline being a gradual process. Etruria and Grannvale have snappish instances of evil nobles, they didn't give them a real history of the decline of the noble class's virtue. And in Grannvale's case, Manfroy is the puppeteer of almost everything. I want to be able to feel that the decline/demise of Country X didn't happen only because the plot demanded it, I want to feel what once gloriously was, and the forces that slowly undid that, which only happens to be capped off by the events seen in the game.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Strullemia]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't see how so. The incarnation I suggest is still working with them and planning to turn on them. The only difference is they didn't torture her and murder her entire family, which for me would make the working relationship she has with them much more palatable.

How would Edelgard or (Claude/Seteth for that matter because Hubert informs them) know about TWSITD if they don't have a working relationship of sort? The only reason TWSITD are so easy going with Edelgard is because they believe they created the second Nemesis and can control her which does more or less work out for them in 3/4 routes. In a world where they're not in contact Edelgard or the other lords would never find out about them which would lead to their death.