What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Samz707]

50 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I actually agree with this. When the route split decision came for Fates, I actually had a far better idea of what I was choosing there than I did in Three Houses, where I didn't even know what Edelgard's motives were before choosing whether or not to join her. I don't consider 3H's story nearly as dumb as Fates' story, but the route split itself? No contest. 3H left me completely confused about what I was even fighting for for several chapters into part 2.

While I've not played Fates, I recall getting to the actual choice in Three Houses and my thoughts were pretty much exactly: "Wait what? now? I barely know anyone how the hell am I supposed to choose?"

It falls flat because unlike other games with faction choices. (Such as Fallout New Vegas) We basically know nothing about everyone, most of the students have a generic "You're that mercenary!" Dialogue so we know nothing about most of them and our only impressions of the actual leaders is literally the prologue. 

So I went Edelgard, I knew literally nothing about her aside from maybe she's clumsy (Since her axe just teleports away) but it's less than Untrustworthy Claude and Dimitri, who Byleth magically knows "has an inner darkness" via reading the game's script off-screen. (Which is lazy writing IMO.)

They really should have had a "Trial week" or two where Byleth teaches all the houses, so we could actually make this thing called an informed decision, it's like the devs had no idea how ot actually handle the choice so they just skip all the build-up/learning of characters that should exist beforehand,  more so when you consider how 2/3 Routes Byleth now has undying loyalty to this house leader he basically picked wtih a coin-flip.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Samz707

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I actually agree with this. When the route split decision came for Fates, I actually had a far better idea of what I was choosing there than I did in Three Houses, where I didn't even know what Edelgard's motives were before choosing whether or not to join her. I don't consider 3H's story nearly as dumb as Fates' story, but the route split itself? No contest. 3H left me completely confused about what I was even fighting for for several chapters into part 2.

Any you could skip the prologue in Fates. Three Houses essentially makes you play like a thirty hour prologue before even getting to the route split each time.

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

While I've not played Fates, I recall getting to the actual choice in Three Houses and my thoughts were pretty much exactly: "Wait what? now? I barely know anyone how the hell am I supposed to choose?"

It falls flat because unlike other games with faction choices. (Such as Fallout New Vegas) We basically know nothing about everyone, most of the students have a generic "You're that mercenary!" Dialogue so we know nothing about most of them and our only impressions of the actual leaders is literally the prologue. 

So I went Edelgard, I knew literally nothing about her aside from maybe she's clumsy (Since her axe just teleports away) but it's less than Untrustworthy Claude and Dimitri, who Byleth magically knows "has an inner darkness" via reading the game's script off-screen. (Which is lazy writing IMO.)

They really should have had a "Trial week" or two where Byleth teaches all the houses, so we could actually make this thing called an informed decision, it's like the devs had no idea how ot actually handle the choice so they just skip all the build-up/learning of characters that should exist beforehand,  more so when you consider how 2/3 Routes Byleth now has undying loyalty to this house leader he basically picked wtih a coin-flip.

 

Per my other comment, imo all of part 1 should have been the "trial week". Make the decision when it actually affects the divergence in the story. Then you can just save there and replay each route from where they actually start instead of playing the entirety of White Clouds four times.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Jotari said:

Any you could skip the prologue in Fates. Three Houses essentially makes you play like a thirty hour prologue before even getting to the route split each time.

Oh yeah. Because instead of making it one prologue you can choose after completing, it's three nigh-identical prologues you have to choose before starting.

[vanguard333]

11 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I actually agree with this. When the route split decision came for Fates, I actually had a far better idea of what I was choosing there than I did in Three Houses, where I didn't even know what Edelgard's motives were before choosing whether or not to join her. I don't consider 3H's story nearly as dumb as Fates' story, but the route split itself? No contest. 3H left me completely confused about what I was even fighting for for several chapters into part 2.

I agree about the route split between Silver Snow and Crimson Flower. That was extremely poorly handled, and possibly one of the worst-handled moments in Three Houses, when it really shouldn't have been considering how important it is. 

But, for choosing which house you want to teach, I think the idea's supposed to be that you go in knowing nothing except a quick profile of each of the students. It's supposed to be that you meet the House Leaders in the prologue, then you meet the students in each house, then you pick which one you want to teach as, as far as the character knows, all that's about to happen is just that: you teaching the students. Byleth doesn't know that things are going to erupt into an ideological war between the different houses. 

 

10 hours ago, Samz707 said:

They really should have had a "Trial week" or two where Byleth teaches all the houses, so we could actually make this thing called an informed decision, it's like the devs had no idea how ot actually handle the choice so they just skip all the build-up/learning of characters that should exist beforehand,  more so when you consider how 2/3 Routes Byleth now has undying loyalty to this house leader he basically picked wtih a coin-flip.

I suppose that a trial week would help a bit, but I find it hard to see how we'd be any more informed in our decision than we already are from running around and meeting all the students, and learning about them from the House Leaders. 

 

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Any you could skip the prologue in Fates. Three Houses essentially makes you play like a thirty hour prologue before even getting to the route split each time.

Per my other comment, imo all of part 1 should have been the "trial week". Make the decision when it actually affects the divergence in the story. Then you can just save there and replay each route from where they actually start instead of playing the entirety of White Clouds four times.

The solution to that would be to make White Clouds more different between the different routes. As it is, the only things that change are the conversations and how well-done the Flame Emperor reveal is (how come only Azure Moon gets a cutscene?)

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

The solution to that would be to make White Clouds more different between the different routes. As it is, the only things that change are the conversations and how well-done the Flame Emperor reveal is (how come only Azure Moon gets a cutscene?)

Considering they didn't have it in them to even split Silver Snow and Verdant Wind, making four different variations of White Clouds simply isn't possible, unless it's cut down to a quarter of its length. I've heard someone suggest that each chapter of White Clouds should have been done with a different house up until after the Flayn kidnapping chapter (at which point Byleth is taking over for Jeritza as a house leader) with each chapter using the most plot relevant house (ie Azure Moon for Miklan). That's an idea that would both be feasible without rearranging the current game, would allow for the route split much later and would provide a rather interesting dynamic to the game where you get to spend some time growing units before deciding on which army to follow.

[Icelerate]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Considering they didn't have it in them to even split Silver Snow and Verdant Wind, making four different variations of White Clouds simply isn't possible, unless it's cut down to a quarter of its length. I've heard someone suggest that each chapter of White Clouds should have been done with a different house up until after the Flayn kidnapping chapter (at which point Byleth is taking over for Jeritza as a house leader) with each chapter using the most plot relevant house (ie Azure Moon for Miklan). That's an idea that would both be feasible without rearranging the current game, would allow for the route split much later and would provide a rather interesting dynamic to the game where you get to spend some time growing units before deciding on which army to follow.

Edelgard's reaction to Miklan is nice to have because it shows that she dislikes the crest system and has empathy even for a scumbag like Miklan. This is important to have because Edelgard isn't outwardly expressive of empathy most of the time. Same with her reaction to Lord Lonato. So I would dislike it if her reactions to those two events, among the best in White Clouds, were removed. 

[vanguard333]

15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Edelgard's reaction to Miklan is nice to have because it shows that she dislikes the crest system and has empathy even for a scumbag like Miklan. This is important to have because Edelgard isn't outwardly expressive of empathy most of the time. Same with her reaction to Lord Lonato. So I would dislike it if her reactions to those two events, among the best in White Clouds, were removed. 

Very true; I guess it just would've been nice if the antagonists in White Clouds weren't mostly Kingdom antagonists: Lonato, Miklan, and the Western Church. Flame Emperor and TWSITD don't count, as they carry on into part 2... sort of, while the bandit at the start doesn't count because he's just a bandit. 

I don't know how I would fix it, but it would've been nice if we saw issues plaguing all three superpowers in White Clouds.

[Sidereal Wraith]

I enjoyed Fates more then Awakening because it had it’s own identity and didn’t have to rely solely on callbacks to earlier games in the series to keep my attention.

[Benice]

Berwick saga's way of handling Weight is my favorite of any Strategy game I've played; The unit loses AS=to the weight of the weapon, but every two points of strength alleviates one point of weight. Granted, stats aren't SUPER important in Berwick, but I wouldn't mind something similar in later games.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Icelerate said:

Edelgard's reaction to Miklan is nice to have because it shows that she dislikes the crest system and has empathy even for a scumbag like Miklan. This is important to have because Edelgard isn't outwardly expressive of empathy most of the time. Same with her reaction to Lord Lonato. So I would dislike it if her reactions to those two events, among the best in White Clouds, were removed. 

Her reaction can still be there while still primarily dealing with the more plot relevant house. Goodness knows the house leaders need to do far more interaction with each other throughout part 1.

4 hours ago, Benice said:

Berwick saga's way of handling Weight is my favorite of any Strategy game I've played; The unit loses AS=to the weight of the weapon, but every two points of strength alleviates one point of weight. Granted, stats aren't SUPER important in Berwick, but I wouldn't mind something similar in later games.

Isn't that basically how Three Houses handles things? Adjusted for a bit of inflation of course.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Benice]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Isn't that basically how Three Houses handles things? Adjusted for a bit of inflation of course.

It is? I haven't actually played, so I wasn't aware of that. Good to know, though!

[Jotari]

29 minutes ago, Benice said:

It is? I haven't actually played, so I wasn't aware of that. Good to know, though!

Yeah it's AS = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Strength / 5) with some skills attached to the armored knight classes (who really need them the least as they'll probably never double anyway) that reduce weight further. I don't know exactly how low stats are in Berwick, but I reckon Three Houses, much like modern Fire Emblem compared to classic has a lot higher stats overall, hence it being strength/5 rather than 2. You can also equip both swords and shields at the same time which drives your weight penalty up further, so weight does make quite a bit of difference even though it can be nullified, especially on Maddening mode where enemies are actually really fast compared to other games.

[SynthGreen]

I’m new to stuff like this. I don’t know what counts as controversial but here goes, don’t hate me. 
 

-Chrom should meet Olivia as it makes the best storyline, is the most in character, and makes the most character sense for Inigo and all of his supports. 
 

-Ike isn’t gay, and was probably going to end up with Lethe if the game wasn’t rushed. 
 

-I prefer Male Byleth to female, I think. 
 

-Xander is the most compelling character in Fates, and most of his flaws are clearly born from him being victimized since he was a child. I can’t hate him even when I’m against him. He also demonstrated some of Fates best writing. 
 

-Marth isn’t an interesting or compelling character, and if he wasn’t first he wouldn’t be so highly regarded. 
 

-Fire Emblem 7 is the most boring game, with the worst lead character. FE6 is not great either but FE7 is made worse by poking little holes in the plot. 
 

[Harvey]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:21 AM, Alastor15243 said:

I actually agree with this. When the route split decision came for Fates, I actually had a far better idea of what I was choosing there than I did in Three Houses, where I didn't even know what Edelgard's motives were before choosing whether or not to join her. I don't consider 3H's story nearly as dumb as Fates' story, but the route split itself? No contest. 3H left me completely confused about what I was even fighting for for several chapters into part 2.

The difference between the split route between the two games is that in Fates, no matter which side you choose, you're seen as a traitor for no reason whatsoever. Whereas in Three Houses, you're simply guiding the students whom you've trained with and you're not seen as a traitor as frequently as how Fates does it.

It also doesn't help that in Fates, you never get an ending that is satisfactory as they all lead to the same problem. Whereas in Three Houses, you get to side with the house. This made the Three House route split more satisfactory than the spilt from Fates.

On 5/11/2020 at 8:25 AM, Jotari said:

Any you could skip the prologue in Fates. Three Houses essentially makes you play like a thirty hour prologue before even getting to the route split each time.

That's not a good idea if you want to level up some of your units.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Harvey

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The difference between the split route between the two games is that in Fates, no matter which side you choose, you're seen as a traitor for no reason whatsoever. Whereas in Three Houses, you're simply guiding the students whom you've trained with and you're not seen as a traitor as frequently as how Fates does it.

It also doesn't help that in Fates, you never get an ending that is satisfactory as they all lead to the same problem. Whereas in Three Houses, you get to side with the house. This made the Three House route split more satisfactory than the spilt from Fates.

 

Not having to pay for each individual route is also a bonus in Three Houses...

[mrwanton]

I agree the route split is done better in Fates, but you're also paying for 3 separate games so that's kinda to be expected.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

The difference between the split route between the two games is that in Fates, no matter which side you choose, you're seen as a traitor for no reason whatsoever. Whereas in Three Houses, you're simply guiding the students whom you've trained with and you're not seen as a traitor as frequently as how Fates does it.

It also doesn't help that in Fates, you never get an ending that is satisfactory as they all lead to the same problem. Whereas in Three Houses, you get to side with the house. This made the Three House route split more satisfactory than the spilt from Fates.

That's not a good idea if you want to level up some of your units.

If it's Conquest you're playing you don't have all that many units to level up from the prologue. If it's Birthright you're playing then you don't need to. If it's Revelations, then you need to go question your life choices. Well, either that or you just do a decent job of leveling all the units your first time you play the prologue since it does load from the same save file when you skip it.

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Not having to pay for each individual route is also a bonus in Three Houses...

You get what you pay for 🙂

[X-Naut]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

That's not a good idea if you want to level up some of your units.

Three Houses has auto-leveling and makes heavy use of it for out-of-house recruitments. Skipping Part 1 would be a matter of finding the right auto-level point for Chapter 13.

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, X-Naut said:

Three Houses has auto-leveling and makes heavy use of it for out-of-house recruitments. Skipping Part 1 would be a matter of finding the right auto-level point for Chapter 13.

I did a double take when you said "chapter 13". Jesus. I never reallly thought about the fact that the prologue is more than half the damned game.

[Jotari]

47 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I did a double take when you said "chapter 13". Jesus. I never reallly thought about the fact that the prologue is more than half the damned game.

Honestly I thought chapter 13 might have been some mid point in it. Maybe it's because I've played it so many dang times, but White Clouds feels really long. Probably because by part 2 when you start achieving Master classes you'll likely start skipping over more monastery days. Well that and, as you said, it's more than half the game. Literally over two thirds in the case of Crimson Flower.

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

If it's Conquest you're playing you don't have all that many units to level up from the prologue. If it's Birthright you're playing then you don't need to. If it's Revelations, then you need to go question your life choices. Well, either that or you just do a decent job of leveling all the units your first time you play the prologue since it does load from the same save file when you skip it.

Well, if you want specific units with good level ups, it doesn't hurt that they get the upper hand in the prologue especially Corrin. Its kinda like Blazing Blade. You don't need Lyn's mode to like grind the units but it kinda helps if you want to use them. Same here with Fates. I agree that its pointless in Birthright and Revelation though since they offer ways for grinding. But Conquest? That's hard to pass.

 

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Well, if you want specific units with good level ups, it doesn't hurt that they get the upper hand in the prologue especially Corrin. Its kinda like Blazing Blade. You don't need Lyn's mode to like grind the units but it kinda helps if you want to use them. Same here with Fates. I agree that its pointless in Birthright and Revelation though since they offer ways for grinding. But Conquest? That's hard to pass.

 

1. It's a different situation from Lyn mode as skipping that means the characters get auto levels that are not nearly high enough for them, so if you want to use those units or even just not have a massively difficult time of Lyn's rejoin chapter, Lyn mode is pretty vital. As far as I remember, Fate's prologue skip loads from a save file in which you've already played the prologue previously (even if you create a different Avatar). So those units have already been leveled up by the player, just on a previous run of the game.

2. Level up who for Conquest? The only Conquest exclusive units in the prologue is Gunter, who's not going to level up all that much at all due to being a prepromote and rejoins so late as to be virtually useless. The only characters you take from the prologue into Conquest are Corrin, Azura and Felica/Jacob who you're going to level any way as they're available in all routes. And even then Felicia/Jacob you're going to have a hard time not leveling up since they're around for two chapters when there only competition for exp is Gunter and Corrin. Azura also doesn't need dedicated levelling if you some how managed to not use her as she will always be viable and able to level thanks to dancing. Even if skipping the prologue did send you directly to Chapter 7 with no leveling at all, the only one who'd really suffer is Corrin. I suppose you could hoard all the exp onto Corrin during the chapters in Hoshido, but due to Fates rather strict exp gain curve that won't actually benefit all that massively  once Corrin gains a few levels above the levels of the enemies.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Icelerate]

Just because a lord is less relevant than another doesn't necessarily make them worse as a character. Most would argue Hector is the more compelling lord than Eliwood even though Eliwood is the main lord. Seliph is also the main lord of Genealogy but most find Sigurd to be more compelling. 

So I don't think saying lord X isn't very relevant, therefore, they are weak characters compared to lord Y is a good argument. 

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Just because a lord is less relevant than another doesn't necessarily make them worse as a character. Most would argue Hector is the more compelling lord than Eliwood even though Eliwood is the main lord. Seliph is also the main lord of Genealogy but most find Sigurd to be more compelling. 

So I don't think saying lord X isn't very relevant, therefore, they are weak characters compared to lord Y is a good argument. 

Who argues that?

(and Seliph is really no more the main lord than Sigurd is. They both get 6 chapters each and both appear on the box art. It's not like the first generation is Lyn mode. It's half of the entire game).

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jotari