What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Ottservia]

54 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Out of curiosity, what games in the series have you played?

Let’s see SS, Awakening, Fates, 3H, SoV, and PoR

[Etrurian emperor]

As far as stories go I always found that Path of Radiance had a lot more substance then Awakening. It tends to do a lot more than Awakening in the same amount of chapters. 

The Begnion and Plegia arcs take about the same amount of chapters. In that time Begnion and its characters are fleshed out as a very flawed and nuanced nation. You learn of its history, its ties to other nations and the ruling class. You meet just about anyone from loyal subjects, corrupt politicians and noble rebels. The arc even sets up just about everything Tellius needs for the sequel. 

In that same number of chapters we learn next to nothing about Plegia. It started out as your typical evil nation and at the end it still remains your typical evil nation. Few characters from that realm have any bit of nuance and overall it doesn't really have any real traits aside from worshiping Grima and being mad at Chrom's dad. And Plegia's actually the most developed enemy faction on Awakening with neither Valm nor the Grimreal having anything to work with. 

I think the speed at which Awakening needs to wrap up its conflicts is really to the story's detriment. Ike must spend the entirety of POR to topple Daein which just shows how important and powerful Daein is. Chrom meanwhile can beat down both Plegia and Valm in a handful of chapters which just shows how weak his enemies are. Ashnard and the Black Knight have the entire game to be build up as imposing forces while Gangrel and Walhardt just show up and are pretty much immediately defeated. 

 

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Let’s see SS, Awakening, Fates, 3H, SoV, and PoR

Gotcha. When I say Awakening is a shitty sequel to FE1 and FE3, I mean that in the sense that the writers didn't demonstrate that they have any respect for, or even knowledge of, the story of those games. Those stories weren't great, but if Awakening's going to claim to be in the same universe, it's going to have to play by the original game's rules, which... it does not.

Before, manaketes needed dragonstones because an ancient change to the laws of physics did two things to them: first, it made it so they couldn't stay in their dragon bodies full-time because they'd then go insane, forcing them to seal their dragon power in dragonstones. Second, it made them incapable of having children.

Given that you've played Awakening, I think you can see what's wrong with that last part.

The other thing is that in FE1 and FE3, and these are some FE1 and FE3 spoilers...

Spoiler

...the Fire Emblem isn't a magical collect-the-dragonballs macguffin that needs to be kept apart at all costs except for emergencies lest its powers be abused. It's a cosmic keystone that needs to be kept together at all costs, because the power of the Shield of Seals with all of its stones together and intact is the only thing keeping Medeus from being resurrected again, and the only thing keeping Tiki from going insane, because despite sealing her dragon powers away like the others, she's even more susceptible to the madness due to her unique nature. In fact, a thief stealing the Fire Emblem and selling off all of the stones is the entire reason why everything bad in the first two games happened in the first place.

Awakening changed and even inverted these things for no clear reason and without even an explanation, like they didn't even know how manaketes and the Fire Emblem work in the Archanea universe. I was frankly floored after I played the original games and it finally occurred to me how completely wrong the Awakening depiction of Archanea lore was.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Ottservia]

13 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the speed at which Awakening needs to wrap up its conflicts is really to the story's detriment. Ike must spend the entirety of POR to topple Daein which just shows how important and powerful Daein is. Chrom meanwhile can beat down both Plegia and Valm in a handful of chapters which just shows how weak his enemies are. Ashnard and the Black Knight have the entire game to be build up as imposing forces while Gangrel and Walhardt just show up and are pretty much immediately defeated. 

To be fair in both cases, the two armies have a mass number of deserters before the final confrontation both of which occur due to other thematically strong and emotional(somewhat) plot points(i.e Emmeryn and Yen’fey’s sacrifice) which help give the heroes the strength and resolve to push forward. In that way I find there’s really nothing wrong with it because it makes sense for the ideas which the narrative is trying to explore so yeah. The plegia arc in general has probably some of the best pacing I’ve seen in these games. It’s very tight but effective. 

 

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Gotcha. When I say Awakening is a shitty sequel to FE1 and FE3, I mean that in the sense that the writers didn't demonstrate that they have any respect for, or even knowledge of, the story of those games. Those stories weren't great, but if Awakening's going to claim to be in the same universe, it's going to have to play by the original game's rules, which... it does not.

Before, manaketes needed dragonstones because an ancient change to the laws of physics did two things to them: first, it made it so they couldn't stay in their dragon bodies full-time because they'd then go insane, forcing them to seal their dragon power in dragonstones. Second, it made them incapable of having children.

Given that you've played Awakening, I think you can see what's wrong with that last part.

The other thing is that in FE1 and FE3, and these are some FE1 and FE3 spoilers...

  Reveal hidden contents

...the Fire Emblem isn't a magical collect-the-dragonballs macguffin that needs to be kept apart at all costs except for emergencies lest its powers be abused. It's a cosmic keystone that needs to be kept together at all costs, because the power of the Shield of Seals with all of its stones together and intact the only thing keeping Medeus from being resurrected again, and the only thing keeping Tiki from going insane, because despite sealing her dragon powers away like the others, she's even more susceptible to the madness due to her unique nature. In fact, a thief stealing the Fire Emblem and selling off all of the stones is the entire reason why everything bad in the first two games happened in the first place.

Awakening changed and even inverted these things for no clear reason and not even an explanation, like they didn't even know how manaketes and the Fire Emblem work in the Archanea universe. I was frankly floored after I played the original games and it finally occurred to me how completely wrong the Awakening depiction of Archanea lore was.

Again, you won’t see me deny this aspect of awakening’s story. It’s world building could definitely use some work. I don’t find it to be too big of a deal personally but that’s just my personal opinion.

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Ottservia said:

Again, you won’t see me deny this aspect of awakening’s story. It’s world building could definitely use some work. I don’t find it to be too big of a deal personally but that’s just my personal opinion.

But when you say "objectively" the stories are equal, I'm assuming you mean in terms of writing a consistent and well-constructed narrative, no? Free of plotholes and inorganic contrivances? And that you're not talking about its ability to stir subjective emotions in people? If so, what grievous technical writing sin does Path of Radiance commit to make Awakening equally as good, and If not, based on what metric are you saying that Awakening and Path of Radiance are objectively equal?

[Ottservia]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

But when you say "objectively" the stories are equal, I'm assuming you mean in terms of writing a consistent and well-constructed narrative, no? Free of plotholes and inorganic contrivances? And that you're not talking about its ability to stir subjective emotions in people? If so, what grievous technical writing sin does Path of Radiance commit to make Awakening equally as good, and If not, based on what metric are you saying that Awakening and Path of Radiance are objectively equal?

Path of radiance really makes commits no writing sins and neither does awakening(at least when taken as its own thing and I mean it has been 2000 years so). Like I said both stories are structurally sound, have good pacing, thematically relevant and meaningful conflicts, and have good characters to help drive the plot. Nothing really to complain about with either of them and if there is anything to complain about then it’s relatively minor nitpicks as well as things you can’t really compare between the two because they are in fact different stories with different ideas, goals, and messages.

though if we are talking comparisons, I feel like the more interesting comparison regarding PoR is comparing with fates as the two stories tackle similar themes.

[Etrurian emperor]

As far as themes go I actually think Fates might be closest to Tracia. 

What else is the Nohrian Hoshidan conflict if not a successor to the conflict between Tracia and Leonster? Both have an evil nation driven primarily out of desperation and poverty and a richer nation that they need resources from to survive. Or well...that was the plan at one point at least. Corrin is even in the exact same boat as Altena. 

[Koops]

Shit, you just made me picture a world where Altena is the avatar unit of a new Jugdral game.

[Samz707]

Dunno how popular an opinion it is here but I don't really think Awakening is a good game for beginners.

Sure it's easy but with Pair-up, Robin being overpowered and the simple maps, it reaches tedious easy for me, where it's actually kinda boring to play and it feels more like you're going through battles on auto-pilot rather than really doing any strategy.

The more quirky tone isn't exactly something I think is exactly good and for first-timers like me coming off other strategy games (Such as Jagged Alliance) , it only serves to make it look like FE is a series where the Perma-death is extremely shore-horned in. (Yes I know it's a problem in most FE games but the increased amount of Comedic moments makes the lack of death reactons stick out like a sore thumb when characters are not only not reacting to people being crippled/killed but going right back to their wacky antics without missing a beat.), In addition to well, not everyone kinda enjoys this comedic anime tone so if you're like me and you really don't like the kind of humor Awakening is going for anyway, having it happen after what should be dramatic reactions to deaths is only going to make you not like the cast more.

Robin also felt player-pandery even as a newbie, as soon as Chrom wanted to have Robin lead the shepards after the first level, I had problems. (Since I don't really think it's logical and it feels alot like Robin's getting special treatment because hey they're the player character which had me kinda staring at my 3Ds in surprise because I was utterly baffled by the turn of events that just happened.)

I actually assumed Awakening was something like Syphon Fitler: The Omega Strain or the later-released Sonic Forces where it's just your newcomer character in a pre-established group of characters simply because it felt that out of place since it came across as awkwardly slotting a self-insert character into a pre-established group of characters to me.

While I can't vouch for the entire game (Since I've actually not finished Awakening since it was that off putting and even when trying to return to it I don't really enjoy it though I have looked up late-game plot points and they don't exactly inspire confidence.), it doesn't exactly help that Awakening's early plot points are kinda...dumb, A Warrior kingdom....that entirely shows off it's strength by not actually using any of their own people, which is like an arms wrestling contest where neither of the contestents actually do the arm wrestling themselves (So it doesn't actually prove their strength at all.),  you have Virion gatecrashing an entirely serious scene for some really unfunny antics and you have the really dumb scene with Maribelle at the Border which just makes it look like Ricken should honestly be leading the shepards rather than Robin so for a newcomer I really stopped enjoying the story from the start then it sorta only had me get even more confused as it went on, not because it was confusing but because everyone was acting absurdly stupid, Chrom, a leader of an army, is surprised by Robin suggesting units fight along side each other in a tutorial and even goes on an awkward tangent about bonds for the support system, which only serves to make him look like an idiot and for me, made it so I kinda disliked him right away.

So with a story that feels  like watching annoying sterotypes be idiots so the plot can happen and gameplay that's honestly really, really easy, I just sorta lost interest and stopped playing around chapter 6-7 since I wasn't really enjoying it in anyway, I can't care for the story because the main character, Chrom, is an unbelieveble idiot who would probably should have ended up dead before the game started and I don't enjoy the gameplay because it's kinda easy to the point of tedium.

Me and a friend (who borrowed Awakening and one of the Fate's games off a friend, dunno which one he played first, I just know he played both and enjoyed neither.) kinda got put off FE from that, I only really got into FE because I found out Awakening was actually contested (having only heard praise for the game beforehand so I assumed every other FE game was like it.) afterwards and decided to try out FE7 on an whim. (And my friend who got put off the series is acutally interested in trying out FE7 after I told him about it.)

So I don't really think it's that good a game for newbies considering how it put me and a buddy off the series for a good while because of many things that are actually exclusive to it and not in FE7 and Echoes at least.

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Samz707

[Jotari]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:46 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

As far as stories go I always found that Path of Radiance had a lot more substance then Awakening. It tends to do a lot more than Awakening in the same amount of chapters. 

The Begnion and Plegia arcs take about the same amount of chapters. In that time Begnion and its characters are fleshed out as a very flawed and nuanced nation. You learn of its history, its ties to other nations and the ruling class. You meet just about anyone from loyal subjects, corrupt politicians and noble rebels. The arc even sets up just about everything Tellius needs for the sequel. 

In that same number of chapters we learn next to nothing about Plegia. It started out as your typical evil nation and at the end it still remains your typical evil nation. Few characters from that realm have any bit of nuance and overall it doesn't really have any real traits aside from worshiping Grima and being mad at Chrom's dad. And Plegia's actually the most developed enemy faction on Awakening with neither Valm nor the Grimreal having anything to work with. 

I think the speed at which Awakening needs to wrap up its conflicts is really to the story's detriment. Ike must spend the entirety of POR to topple Daein which just shows how important and powerful Daein is. Chrom meanwhile can beat down both Plegia and Valm in a handful of chapters which just shows how weak his enemies are. Ashnard and the Black Knight have the entire game to be build up as imposing forces while Gangrel and Walhardt just show up and are pretty much immediately defeated. 

 

The biggest issue with Awakening is that it tries to do a lot more with the time it has to work with. It's why so many people (myself included) think the massively disconnected Valm arc should have been its own game. Like Awakening has a character who's a trusted friend and parent figure to Chrom and Emmeryn who betrays them to Plegia. Said character is intorduced in the chapter in which he betrays them and then is immediately killed off and never once mentioned again. It's because Awkening is in a masssive rush to get the Plegia arc finished in time and needs to get characters from point A to point B with a fight with an emphasis on speed rather than natural progression. In a more free flowing story the Hierach would have been  a character introduced earlier with a defined personality and a relationship with the royal children that is actually shown on screen. Then his betrayal would have been more than just an excuse to have a fight.

On 6/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Alastor15243 said:

But when you say "objectively" the stories are equal, I'm assuming you mean in terms of writing a consistent and well-constructed narrative, no? Free of plotholes and inorganic contrivances? And that you're not talking about its ability to stir subjective emotions in people? If so, what grievous technical writing sin does Path of Radiance commit to make Awakening equally as good, and If not, based on what metric are you saying that Awakening and Path of Radiance are objectively equal?

Here we go again.

[Sir Gerwald of Vallora]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The biggest issue with Awakening is that it tries to do a lot more with the time it has to work with. It's why so many people (myself included) think the massively disconnected Valm arc should have been its own game. Like Awakening has a character who's a trusted friend and parent figure to Chrom and Emmeryn who betrays them to Plegia. Said character is intorduced in the chapter in which he betrays them and then is immediately killed off and never once mentioned again. It's because Awkening is in a masssive rush to get the Plegia arc finished in time and needs to get characters from point A to point B with a fight with an emphasis on speed rather than natural progression. In a more free flowing story the Hierach would have been  a character introduced earlier with a defined personality and a relationship with the royal children that is actually shown on screen. Then his betrayal would have been more than just an excuse to have a fight

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Even with Awakening being a favorite of mine, it really feels rushed like you said. Now I'm just imagining a sequel focusing on all the post timeskip stuff. Although, with the franchise's future in the air, I understand why they had to rush a whole story into the game.

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gerwald of Vallora said:

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Even with Awakening being a favorite of mine, it really feels rushed like you said. Now I'm just imagining a sequel focusing on all the post timeskip stuff. Although, with the franchise's future in the air, I understand why they had to rush a whole story into the game.

If Awakening got another game, I honestly think it would be better to focus on the bad future timeline, and tell a Thracia-esque story about the child characters' struggles to escape back in time. That would be AWESOME.

[Sir Gerwald of Vallora]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

If Awakening got another game, I honestly think it would be better to focus on the bad future timeline, and tell a Thracia-esque story about the child characters' struggles to escape back in time. That would be AWESOME.

Good lord that sounds fantastic. I've always wanted to see more of that timeline, and the Future Past DLC never cut it for me. It would have also been really cool if the children weren't in the original Awakening, minus Lucina of course, but still followed the parents we selected for them, perhpas by reading our save data. Then we see them introduced over time slowly revealing who their parents were... Dang now I want this game instead.

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Sir Gerwald of Vallora said:

Good lord that sounds fantastic. I've always wanted to see more of that timeline, and the Future Past DLC never cut it for me. It would have also been really cool if the children weren't in the original Awakening, minus Lucina of course, but still followed the parents we selected for them, perhpas by reading our save data. Then we see them introduced over time slowly revealing who their parents were... Dang now I want this game instead.

What always struck me about the Future Past is that Aversa and Validar are completely absent. I guess Validar could have been killed by Chrom and Robin in the Premonition scene, even though in the main story he survives that particular moment and this is a variation in which Robin does kill Chrom. But Aversa should still be alive, at least if things went down the same, which they likely didn't given this is a Robin that knows their past. Still, it would have been interesting to see how Validar and Aversa are reacting to the reality of the world they were trying to create. And how much Grima would reward or discard them for their efforts

[Samz707]

On 6/9/2020 at 4:58 PM, Alastor15243 said:

Gotcha. When I say Awakening is a shitty sequel to FE1 and FE3, I mean that in the sense that the writers didn't demonstrate that they have any respect for, or even knowledge of, the story of those games. Those stories weren't great, but if Awakening's going to claim to be in the same universe, it's going to have to play by the original game's rules, which... it does not.

Before, manaketes needed dragonstones because an ancient change to the laws of physics did two things to them: first, it made it so they couldn't stay in their dragon bodies full-time because they'd then go insane, forcing them to seal their dragon power in dragonstones. Second, it made them incapable of having children.

Given that you've played Awakening, I think you can see what's wrong with that last part.

The other thing is that in FE1 and FE3, and these are some FE1 and FE3 spoilers...

  Reveal hidden contents

...the Fire Emblem isn't a magical collect-the-dragonballs macguffin that needs to be kept apart at all costs except for emergencies lest its powers be abused. It's a cosmic keystone that needs to be kept together at all costs, because the power of the Shield of Seals with all of its stones together and intact is the only thing keeping Medeus from being resurrected again, and the only thing keeping Tiki from going insane, because despite sealing her dragon powers away like the others, she's even more susceptible to the madness due to her unique nature. In fact, a thief stealing the Fire Emblem and selling off all of the stones is the entire reason why everything bad in the first two games happened in the first place.

Awakening changed and even inverted these things for no clear reason and without even an explanation, like they didn't even know how manaketes and the Fire Emblem work in the Archanea universe. I was frankly floored after I played the original games and it finally occurred to me how completely wrong the Awakening depiction of Archanea lore was.

Wow that actually sounds god-awful.

I got annoyed when Three Houses had Edelgard's axe vanish in the tutorial so Byleth could get themselves killed, If I was a fan of the series at the time and played Fe1 and 3 before Awakening and got to those points I would have been even more pissed  off at the game than I already was.

Is it really that hard for 6 writers to at least try to stick to basic continuity? 

[Troykv]

7 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Wow that actually sounds god-awful.

I got annoyed when Three Houses had Edelgard's axe vanish in the tutorial so Byleth could get themselves killed, If I was a fan of the series at the time and played Fe1 and 3 before Awakening and got to those points I would have been even more pissed  off at the game than I already was.

Is it really that hard for 6 writers to at least try to stick to basic continuity? 

As far as I'm aware, the only person that had previously knowledge of the Archanea games lore among the writers was Maeda himself (because he was the one that wrote the Scenario of the remakes)... I personally believe consistency with old lore was very low in their priorities considering this game suffer from being a very last game; this game didn't want to be subject to a particular lore; the game biggest priority was being and homage to everything Fire Emblem, and I think the only reason why Plegia and Ylisse are Archanea because of these homages, that just happens to be the continent with the most amount of iconic stuff in the franchise, specially from the perspective of japanese... They compromised many things of the world (and probably also a good reason why they decided to make such a big jump in time) for the sake of well... to put it bluntly... fanservice, but isn't just the sexual one that one only really applies to Tiki in this case considering what was previously mentioned; many things are... weird, for the sake of fanservice.

Though, something particularly funny about it, while it's clear Ylisse ended up being a mess overall, Valm actually looks like something that Valentia could eventually turn up after two thousand years; considering how few empires actually managed to stay for that long, and how we have some hints of some asian-like elements in Valentia since the original Gaiden.

[Acacia Sgt]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:58 AM, Alastor15243 said:

Second, it made them incapable of having children.

Given that you've played Awakening, I think you can see what's wrong with that last part.

To be fair, Tiki was born after Naga became a manakete, so it's very possible that problem was also solved that way like the insanity one. So Awakening, at least, didn't commit that perceived mistake since it was there since the very first game.

Speaking of... there's absolutely no info whatsoever regarding Tiki's other parent, is it?

Edited June 11, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair, Tiki was born after Naga became a manakete, so it's very possible that problem was also solved that way like the insanity one. So Awakening, at least, didn't commit that perceived mistake since it was there since the very first game.

Where is that stated? I can't find info on that.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Where is that stated? I can't find info on that.

Mystery has a line that Tiki was just born when the Earth-Divine Dragon war ended. Naga had long become a manakete by that point.

Chainy:
Ah…
When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct.
Aside from Narga, only Gato, me and the just born Chiki survived.

It's worth to point out that line is gone in New Mystery, but in any case, Tiki is just too young to be born before the dragons lost their ability to conceive.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Mystery has a line that Tiki was just born when the Earth-Divine Dragon war ended. Naga had long become a manakete by that point.

Chainy:
Ah…
When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct.
Aside from Narga, only Gato, me and the just born Chiki survived.

It's worth to point out that line is gone in New Mystery, but in any case, Tiki is just too young to be born before the dragons lost their ability to conceive.

My impression I got from playing the game was that Tiki was the last child born before the calamity event. How long after that event was that war?

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

My impression I got from playing the game was that Tiki was the last child born before the calamity event. How long after that event was that war?

It's hard to pinpoint an exact amount. From what I've looked up, places that piece a timeline, like Serenes itself, it has the beginning of the decline as Around Year -1000 in the Archanean calendar, with the Earth-Divine war as Year -740. Again, Tiki is said to be just born when the war ended and was sent to sleep, so a gap that big means she can't be born before the signs of decline began.

Now, an alternative answer is that loosing one's fertility was the first signs of the degeneration, with the loose of the mind as the next part. Also, remember that it wasn't a general thing. It was gradual. Both scripts agree on this. So it's possible that those dragons who became manakete while still fertile, were able to keep the ability to conceive. This would include Naga, who heeded the elders' warnings early enough to become a manakete before the decline got to her.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's hard to pinpoint an exact amount. From what I've looked up, places that piece a timeline, like Serenes itself, it has the beginning of the decline as Around Year -1000 in the Archanean calendar, with the Earth-Divine war as Year -740. Again, Tiki is said to be just born when the war ended and was sent to sleep, so a gap that big means she can't be born before the signs of decline began.

Now, an alternative answer is that loosing one's fertility was the first signs of the degeneration, with the loose of the mind as the next part. Also, remember that it wasn't a general thing. It was gradual. Both scripts agree on this. So it's possible that those dragons who became manakete while still fertile, were able to keep the ability to conceive. This would include Naga, who heeded the elders' warnings early enough to become a manakete before the decline got to her.

I'll have to check out the FE12 script closely then when I get there then, because that isn't the impression I got from the FE3 script at all. Weird.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'll have to check out the FE12 script closely then when I get there then, because that isn't the impression I got from the FE3 script at all. Weird.

I suppose it won't matter much since it is the more recent one, but keep in mind that it's not an exact 1:1 to original Mystery's. As I said before, there is at least one line missing from the original script. I know some were moved around, specially into the supports, but the one I quote earlier is actually gone.

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I suppose it won't matter much since it is the more recent one, but keep in mind that it's not an exact 1:1 to original Mystery's. As I said before, there is at least one line missing from the original script. I know some were moved around, specially into the supports, but the one I quote earlier is actually gone.

So you were quoting FE3?

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

So you were quoting FE3?

Yeah. The line in Mystery starts like this:

Chainy:
Ah…
When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct.
Aside from Narga, only Gato, me and the just born Chiki survived.
However, after the war we discarded our dragonstones, so we could no longer become dragons again.

In New Mystery, however:

Xane:
Oh, yeah... but y'see, after the war, Gotoh and I threw away our dragon stones. So, I can never be a dragon again.

It completely removes the first two lines. So, basically a retcon.

However, there are other places in the script that refers to Tiki being just born that are still there. Like in Chapter 12:

Xane:
Naga took pity on you humans, with no way of protecting yourselves, so she created it from one of her fangs. Then, together with the shield, she sealed it in the fane, and had the remainin' dragon houses watch over humanity. She put the newly born Tiki to sleep and thus ended her 5,000-year life. 'Cause of all this, Gotoh's tryin' his best to carry out Naga's order.

---

A word of advice, when you reach New Mystery in your LP thread, do a side-by-side comparison with the original script. Actually, go ahead and start with Shadow Dragon's new and old scripts. There are differences, small though at times significant. If you're going to be reviewing the story, it's best if you have the complete picture, since you'd also have to evaluate the changes they've done.