What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[ping]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I’m not saying Nowi doesn’t act childish cause she does as you pointed out but she’s more mature than she let’s on. There are a couple of supports that showcase this. Like I’m not disagreeing with your analysis here but I’m just saying to dissmiss her as just loli pandering is a little disingenuous. Cause she’s more than that and I feel like we should appreciate the things the character has to offer.

No, it is not disingenuous. Nowi, in her childlike appearance, childlike behaviour, and sexual availability to the player avatar is a character made to appeal to pedophiles. Full stop. This doesn't get balanced out by her acting "more mature" in some of her dialogues - if anything, this makes it worse, since it parrots the "he/she is very mature for their age" bullcrap excuse some pedophiles make. Characters like her are a huge stain on the Fire Emblem series.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, ping said:

No, it is not disingenuous. Nowi, in her childlike appearance, childlike behaviour, and sexual availability to the player avatar is a character made to appeal to pedophiles. Full stop. This doesn't get balanced out by her acting "more mature" in some of her dialogues - if anything, this makes it worse, since it parrots the "he/she is very mature for their age" bullcrap excuse some pedophiles make. Characters like her are a huge stain on the Fire Emblem series.

And I'm gonna stop you there by pointing out that now you are basically making an attack on everyone that likes Nowi as a character by calling them a pedophile. 

Look, you might hate how Nowi is designed and how she sometimes acts childish. But that does not give you the right to call anyone that likes her a pedo. So for the sake of everyone else, back off.

[Samz707]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In other words, it's the game mechanics with the cafeteria and such where Bernie can be involved in. 

Also, EVERYONE gets close to Byleth almost immediately. And lorewise, it makes sense. Byleth is basically god.

It's still dumb avatar-worship that hurts pretty much every character, but Bernie just sticks out more since she's the one who's supposed to be untrustworthy of others. (And I swear to god they better not actually try to use Sothis as an excuse for the crappy Avatar worship, you're probably joking but it also wouldn't surprise me with the writing so far in Three Houses.)

And yeah, they could have fixed it with the game mechanics, easily, make her supports take longer to build and change her opening up to the B-support, FE7 managed to have slower supports for certain characters, don't see how Three houses can't.

And like I said, they could have had the Gifts/dumb food eating mechanics actually not work on Bernie at the start since she's paranoid, if they actually wanted to put effort into it.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Samz707

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

It's still dumb avatar-worship that hurts pretty much every character, but Bernie just sticks out more since she's the one who's supposed to be untrustworthy of others. (And I swear to god they better not actually try to use Sothis as an excuse for the crappy Avatar worship, you're probably joking but it also wouldn't surprise me with the writing so far in Three Houses.)

And yeah, they could have fixed it with the game mechanics, easily, make her supports take longer to build and change her opening up to the B-support, FE7 managed to have slower supports for certain characters, don't see how Three houses can't.

I wish I was joking, but characters comment about how Byleth has this weird ability where they feel they can trust him. Sothis is the progenitor god, and even Byleth's base stat and growth rate for his Charm levels is actually rather high. Byleth, by all means, is presented as a charismatic individual that people will open up to even if they don't want to personally. 

I think the limits of 3H game mechanics are shown here due to how they had a smaller crew. That would explain how sloppy several other things are. But that doesn't change that Bernie is still very much shown her shyness in her Explore by never leaving her room unless it's the chapter Jeralt died, and CF Part 2.

[Samz707]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I wish I was joking, but characters comment about how Byleth has this weird ability where they feel they can trust him. Sothis is the progenitor god, and even Byleth's base stat and growth rate for his Charm levels is actually rather high. Byleth, by all means, is presented as a charismatic individual that people will open up to even if they don't want to personally. 

I think the limits of 3H game mechanics are shown here due to how they had a smaller crew. That would explain how sloppy several other things are. But that doesn't change that Bernie is still very much shown her shyness in her Explore by never leaving her room unless it's the chapter Jeralt died, and CF Part 2.

oooh boy.

So the boring plank of wood is supposed to be charismatic ...that makes sense.  (As if I don't hate Byleth enough already.)

Again, I seriously doubt they couldn't just A:Have Byleth's C Support be like Sylvian (Where they talk to her about something and she ends up panicking and run off and NOT her suddenly declaring she trusts them more than most people despite hardly knowing anything abotu them.) and B: have her supports just take longer to build, if a GBA game can do it I'm fairly certain a Switch game could do it, it just comes off, again, like the devs not actually trying and just wanting to have our dumb self-insert to suddenly be liked by someone who by all right shouldn't.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Samz707

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Samz707 said:

oooh boy.

So the boring plank of wood is supposed to be charismatic ...that makes sense. 

Again, I seriously doubt they couldn't just A:Have Byleth's C Support be like Sylvian (Where they talk to her about something and she ends up panicking and run off and NOT her suddenly declaring she trusts them more than most people despite hardly knowing anything abotu them.) and B: have her supports just take longer to build, if a GBA game can do it I'm fairly certain a Switch game could do it, it just comes off, again, like the devs not actually trying. 

 

As I said, the limitations is due to the smaller crew they had. IS really needs to consider hiring more staff and a higher budget. They oughta be able to afford it now.

[Samz707]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

As I said, the limitations is due to the smaller crew they had. IS really needs to consider hiring more staff and a higher budget. They oughta be able to afford it now.

Was the crew seriously smaller than Fe7 on the GBA?
Regardless, my main problem with the Bernie C support is the writing, which I don't think is inherent to to a smaller crew, Again, it unlocking as early as it does could be justified if it wasn't her suddenly trusting Byleth, Slyvian's C-Support also unlocks quickly (and I'm going to assume that all supports go at the same rate, since that makes sense.) and doesn't have her suddenly trusting Slyvian.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Samz707

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Was the crew seriously smaller than Fe7 on the GBA?
Regardless, my main problem with the Bernie C support is the writing, which I don't think is inherent to to a smaller crew, Again, it unlocking as early as it does could be justified if it wasn't her suddenly trusting Byleth, Slyvian's C-Support also unlocks quickly (and I'm going to assume that all supports go at the same rate, since that makes sense.) and doesn't have her suddenly trusting Slyvian.

 

Working on three four routes, battallions, many other gameplay mechanics, Garreg Mach, the supports, the time restrictions, the other aspects. They had a LOT more on their plate than the GBA, and the crew size might be bigger than the GBA, but there were also a lot more mechanical stuff to do for this game than the others. 

Also, it's really not that big of a deal, because you're arguing the more semantics of the shyness anxiety thing, but still utterly ignoring the locked in her room the entirety of the game during explore conversations unless it's in CF or Jeralt's death.

You can't argue one to be the biggest aspect, but ignore the other which is very big in itself.

[Samz707]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Working on three four routes, battallions, many other gameplay mechanics, Garreg Mach, the supports, the time restrictions, the other aspects. They had a LOT more on their plate than the GBA, and the crew size might be bigger than the GBA, but there were also a lot more mechanical stuff to do for this game than the others. 

Also, it's really not that big of a deal, because you're arguing the more semantics of the shyness anxiety thing, but still utterly ignoring the locked in her room the entirety of the game during explore conversations unless it's in CF or Jeralt's death.

You can't argue one to be the biggest aspect, but ignore the other which is very big in itself.

Personally to me, her hiding in her room is undercut when Byleth manages to get her to trust him basically near-instantly to the player, it reinforces "Oh yeah, I'm playing as a crappy self-insert everyone needs to love almost instantly to me" and since how they handle Bernie is basically the only somewhat interesting character thing TH has shown me, so having it be immediately essentially ignored for the sake of yet more Avatar-worship both makes Bernie and Byleth worse as characters and makes it hard for me to actually care.

Again, if she's so afraid she locks herself in her room, she should not be trusting Byleth this easy, so to me it basically is completely counteracted with the ridiculous ease it is to make her trust Byleth, it feels more like none of the characters actually tried to interact with her rather than Byleth breaking through to Bernie.

[Timeley]

Archers are usable, and always viable. Everyone hates on Gordin, Rolf, and Wolt for being subpar units, but the actuality is, they can be powerful flyer killers, and deal heavy damage to allow  weaker units to finish them off.

[omegaxis1]

23 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Personally to me, her hiding in her room is undercut when Byleth manages to get her to trust him basically near-instantly to the player, it reinforces "Oh yeah, I'm playing as a crappy self-insert everyone needs to love almost instantly to me" and since how they handle Bernie is basically the only somewhat interesting character thing TH has shown me, so having it be immediately essentially ignored for the sake of yet more Avatar-worship both makes Bernie and Byleth worse as characters and makes it hard for me to actually care.

Again, if she's so afraid she locks herself in her room, she should not be trusting Byleth this easy, so to me it basically is completely counteracted with the ridiculous ease it is to make her trust Byleth, it feels more like none of the characters actually tried to interact with her rather than Byleth breaking through to Bernie.

I mean, Bernie still doesn't open up her room unless it's for a special reason. Even her trusting you isn't as you are trying to present it as. You're arguing on the gameplay mechanics, which only goes with basically semantics. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by omegaxis1

[Lightcosmo]

5 minutes ago, Timeley said:

Archers are usable, and always viable. Everyone hates on Gordin, Rolf, and Wolt for being subpar units, but the actuality is, they can be powerful flyer killers, and deal heavy damage to allow  weaker units to finish them off.

Except maybe Ronin from FE5. He's straight garbage. XD

[Samz707]

28 minutes ago, Timeley said:

Archers are usable, and always viable. Everyone hates on Gordin, Rolf, and Wolt for being subpar units, but the actuality is, they can be powerful flyer killers, and deal heavy damage to allow  weaker units to finish them off.

Yeah, though I'd say the increased range some games give them allow them to truely shine.

I could be wrong but I think bows are generally more available at shops in some of the games.

I think maybe letting Archers buy a "Ballista kit" or some way to actually start battles with a ballista, like as a costly item that let's you build an FE7 killer  ballista would help.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Except maybe Ronin from FE5. He's straight garbage. XD

Scroll abuse him and he can become as much a death machine as anyone else. And he has three movement stars which certainly helps compensate a bad enemy phase with a good player phase. He might be worse than pretty much any other character in the game, but I'm sure he can still be made into a decent unit.

[Benice]

1 hour ago, Timeley said:

Archers are usable, and always viable. Everyone hates on Gordin, Rolf, and Wolt for being subpar units, but the actuality is, they can be powerful flyer killers, and deal heavy damage to allow  weaker units to finish them off.

I'd say that in most games, they have some kind of purpose-They are probably at their worst in FEs 7-9, though, as between FE 7 and 9, they have one decent unit, and the x2 multiplier doesn't do 'em any favors. (And they're not much better in FE8, but a few good units theoretically can use bows.) They've got use in most other games, though. Niche uses, but uses nonetheless.

[Lightcosmo]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Scroll abuse him and he can become as much a death machine as anyone else. And he has three movement stars which certainly helps compensate a bad enemy phase with a good player phase. He might be worse than pretty much any other character in the game, but I'm sure he can still be made into a decent unit.

Archers dont stand out if FE5 considering how easy it is to get resources for other units and mages (Asbel) are going to be much better.

Sure he can be okay, but babying him doesnt mean he's useful.

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Scroll abuse him and he can become as much a death machine as anyone else. And he has three movement stars which certainly helps compensate a bad enemy phase with a good player phase. He might be worse than pretty much any other character in the game, but I'm sure he can still be made into a decent unit.

The problem there is that 15% Str growth. The Njorun Scroll, the +30% Str growth one, doesn't come until the very appropriate time of Leonster Castle. Stacking four of: Baldr, Hodr, Neir, Dain, and Fjalar grants up to 30% true, but thats a lot of Scrolls others can't be using then and it limits Ronan's inventory to a single bow. And believe it or not, but Ronan would want Mag-boosting scrolls early too, his 55% growth there is sunk in practice by his 0 Mag base, and he gets but 1 point on promotion.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Archers dont stand out if FE5 considering how easy it is to get resources for other units and mages (Asbel) are going to be much better.

Sure he can be okay, but babying him doesnt mean he's useful.

 

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The problem there is that 15% Str growth. The Njorun Scroll, the +30% Str growth one, doesn't come until the very appropriate time of Leonster Castle. Stacking four of: Baldr, Hodr, Neir, Dain, and Fjalar grants up to 30% true, but thats a lot of Scrolls others can't be using then and it limits Ronan's inventory to a single bow. And believe it or not, but Ronan would want Mag-boosting scrolls early too, his 55% growth there is sunk in practice by his 0 Mag base, and he gets but 1 point on promotion.

So like I said, inferior when compared to every other unit in the game, but still not completely useless.

[X-Naut]

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Except maybe Ronin from FE5. He's straight garbage. XD

Ronan's abnormally high mobility for a foot unit give him some niche use, particularly in fast playthroughs.

[Hello72207]

48 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

Ronan's abnormally high mobility for a foot unit give him some niche use, particularly in fast playthroughs.

not to mention the fact that the Brave bow can turn any bad unit into good unit

[Ottservia]

3 hours ago, ping said:

No, it is not disingenuous. Nowi, in her childlike appearance, childlike behaviour, and sexual availability to the player avatar is a character made to appeal to pedophiles. Full stop. This doesn't get balanced out by her acting "more mature" in some of her dialogues - if anything, this makes it worse, since it parrots the "he/she is very mature for their age" bullcrap excuse some pedophiles make. Characters like her are a huge stain on the Fire Emblem series.

Dude it’s just a video game character calm down. 

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

 

So like I said, inferior when compared to every other unit in the game, but still not completely useless.

But they said "good" not situationally useful. He is the latter, if anything. There are so many actually good options out there, he doesnt stand out if he needs every hand holding tool in the game to make him, useful of he's lucky.

1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

Ronan's abnormally high mobility for a foot unit give him some niche use, particularly in fast playthroughs.

How does he stack up against units that can do the same thing but much better though? 

Edit: isnt a units usefulness determined by how well they function without outside assistance? Like sure, you can give most units all stat up items and they'll seem useful. I dunno, he just doesnt seem to be helpful IMO.

Edited October 1, 2020 by lightcosmo

[AnonymousSpeed]

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

All I’m saying is that you shouldn’t dismiss something for being bad or not making sense without trying to understand it or the cultural influences behind it.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm decrying it as a social ill for for inflaming the dark corners of people that ought to not to be fed.

The cultural reasons aren't all that deep. The disgust is universal.

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Or hell even the “Loli characters being fetishized” can work

No it cannot.

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

It’s because of that they fetishize sort of that younger looking appearance because it is in line with their cultural beauty standards. Is it right for us to say that sort of thing is wrong?

I hope you're completely off base in that assessment of Japanese culture, but in the event that you aren't, yes it is.

11 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t think so cause again it’s a different culture and we should respect said culture.

Why should we let one awful part slide for the sake of the whole culture? Why should we respect it at all? I don't think we should respect cultures that say we should respect other cultures. It shows indifference to values.

8 hours ago, ping said:

Every time I see a child character being called a "loli" I'm a little more convinced that Anime was, in fact, a horrible mistake.

28 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Dude it’s just a video game character calm down. 

See Otts, there's a common misconception that get mad at characters themselves for indecency, like they were real people or something with actual agency. That is obvious wrong. We get mad because the characters are created and used to promote or entertain vices. The individuals acting with wicked agency are the character designers, or the author, or whatever the relevant job title is. We don't like them, we don't like their work, and we don't like their tools.

31 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

not to mention the fact that the Brave bow can turn any bad unit into good unit

Even ones who can't use bows?

Hot take: I like to give my units weapons they can't use.

[Alastor15243]

Honestly, what bugs me the most about the loli dragons is that I am 99% positive that if dragons weren't a nearly extinct species in this setting, and if they still had their own culture...

...There is no way the dragon age of consent would be 18 years old. Not with their obviously stunted physical and emotional development.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Ottservia]

12 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I hope you're completely off base in that assessment of Japanese culture, but in the event that you aren't, yes it is.

I mean have you seen Sakurai?!(not a girl I know but my point still stands) that man ages in reverse I swear to god. Also one look at the Japanese cosplay scene can give a general idea of what I mean. 

 

13 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I hope you're completely off base in that assessment of Japanese culture, but in the event that you aren't, yes it is.

Well then let’s change the question a little bit. Why should I respect you at all? Why should you respect me? Frankly, I believe we should just show respect to other people and their beliefs/values regardless. Everyone deserves a basic level of respect I think we can agree on that. It’s fine to criticize another culture for values you think aren’t morally right but please don’t act so high and mighty about it(not saying that you are but I’m just saying this is a dangerous slippery slope)

19 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

See Otts, there's a common misconception that get mad at characters themselves for indecency, like they were real people or something with actual agency. That is obvious wrong. We get mad because the characters are created and used to promote or entertain vices. The individuals acting with wicked agency are the character designers, or the author, or whatever the relevant job title is. We don't like them, we don't like their work, and we don't like their tools.

But does make anyone who likes the character a pedophile? That’s a little extreme if you ask me. There’s a lot more nuance to this discussion that you probably aren’t realizing. Frankly, I find this mentality a little close minded. Where should we draw the line in regards to what is or isn’t allowed to be portrayed in art? Where do we draw the censorship line? Again, there’s a lot more nuance to this conversation than simply “Loli pandering bad”. If you want to have that conversation, then I suggest you do your research but realize it’s far more complicated than you seem to think it is