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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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1 minute ago, Axie said:

not as nearly as common as criticising rey even considering the size of the fandoms, though. alm being a gary stu isn't as nearly as big of an issue in this fandom as micaiah supposedly being a mary sue (for being a more nuanced and flawed character, even) was.

Calling Micaiah a "Mary Sue" (A term that means nothing and is worthless) is pretty much dead these days though, fandoms' opinions on certain things tends to shift through the years. I rarely if ever see people complaining about Micaiah being a "Mary Sue" in any FE-focused discussion space today. If anything Micaiah seems to be one of the more well-liked Lords these days, as whenever i see her writing is brought up it is often done so in praise for her being so unconvential compared to most other Lords in the series.

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7 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

Calling Micaiah a "Mary Sue" (A term that means nothing and is worthless) is pretty much dead these days though, fandoms' opinions on certain things tends to shift through the years. I rarely if ever see people complaining about Micaiah being a "Mary Sue" in any FE-focused discussion space today. If anything Micaiah seems to be one of the more well-liked Lords these days, as whenever i see her writing is brought up it is often done so in praise for her being so unconvential compared to most other Lords in the series.

i definitely agree the stu/sue term is beyond worthless! it's a cop out when people are bothered and don't know how to express themselves. it's how people call them, though, so that's what i have to mention lol.

but notice i said "was". micaiah was very controversial and mostly disliked for years after RD was released. if the fandom has grown to appreciate her (as i did; i did have many reservations with her at first but now i think she is fine) then i am glad to know that. even so, alm got no such controversy even after echoes revealed him to the larger fandom, and even the small sect of the fandom who actually played gaiden didn't seem to have much of a problem with him for years and years.

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9 hours ago, Benice said:

True, but the thing with Fates is that it's three whole games. Conquest isn't Birthright recolored-They are independent experiences and both have complete narratives, and IIRC they usually have full endings then a sad note at the end which admittedly says "GET THE DLC!! MONEYEYYEYEYEYYYYYY!" but the story still functions on its own. TH is one game for the price of one game, but the sense that I have so far is "Wanna know about plot point X? Play route B or route C!" and the story just hasn't really stood up by itself in terms of each route telling a complete story.

This actually isn’t true, both Birthright and Conquest go "Wanna know about plot point X? Play route B or route C!" and you can tell how forced it is because of Conquest’s ending literally shoving it in your face like oH wHaT wHaT hApPeNeD???? At least none of the info available on one route is really important on the other, like kingdom slitherer shenanigans not really mattering on any other route. You can tell it’s just about money here.

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Maybe it's not the point to have each route be a full story, but I'd have much preferred if they had done it that way.

They do though.

I mean Birthright is 95% filler chapters. Is that a full story?

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Um, my point being that Fates' routes were handled okay but not perfectly. You at least get what you pay for when you buy the games,

The tagline for Conquest is that you change your misguided kingdom from within. Do you do that? Ahahaha no.

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which is better than nothing. I feel like if Revelations were less gimmicky and were handled differently, people wouldn't object to its existence so much.

I’m not so sure about that, secret evil cults have never been popular in fe, and Revelations is basically secret evil cult with no reason for being evil: the game.

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Dunno if this is unpopular, but I feel like Claude is a very pointless character. I am pretty sure that he's basically a one-off in all non-VW routes and he kinda doesn't do much in VW. Sure, he's there, but that's about all he's done. He does bring up the idea of busting open Fodlan's throat, but that plot point got swept away very quickly. He's more involved with the plot than the likes of Lyn in FE7, but he's entirely inconsequential in many ways.

...Such as when he literally just pisses off to elsewhere in his ending, leaving Byleth to rule Fodlan. Again, I feel like he gets screentime, (Unlike Lyn or Mark) but that screentime doesn't amount to much in terms of importance.

 

Also, this is probably unpopular, but I really, really wish Kronya were playable. Or some other Agarthan character, for that matter. That would have been really interesting, just to see TWISTD from a different perspective and also explain why they have Bishops of Seiros if they hate Seiros so much. That still weirds me out.

All of these games are pretty cold. But I agree with all of them.

Except the Kronya part, a member of TWISTD should have been playable but not her.

9 hours ago, Murozaki said:

I can understand what you mean, i don't dislike golden endings in games with multiple endings, but they do feel unsatisfying to me when they're basically just like any other ending instead of being particularly different in any way in how they're implemented. It's why i have some issues with how perfect some of the Neutral Endings in the Megami Tensei games tend to be, and even those are still implemented a little better for me than something like Revelations since at least with the Megami Tensei Neutral Endings you often need to choose the right dialogue options and in some games juggle Chaos and Law points so you don't lean too heavily into one extreme. With Revelations it's literally just "Here are Options A, B and C, C is the best one by the way so there's no reason to ever pick A or B".

It’s less so the fact that it’s the golden ending and more the fact that it basically destroys the other two narratives. Like it was secretly the remaining people of a hidden kingdom led by an evil dragon being evil for no reason and not Nohr? Seriously? That’s just a bad story. It tries to be a golden ending but it is so unsatisfying.

10 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah, and like I said that’s kinda the point

That doesn’t help anything though.

8 hours ago, Benice said:

Possibly? I thought the point of the Slitheries was to eradicate all teachings of Seiros and on the other end we were trying to get rid of 'em as well. I could be missing something, though.

Eh, more like to just be in control. Those darn Nabateans.

But yeah that’s part of it.

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4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

This actually isn’t true, both Birthright and Conquest go "Wanna know about plot point X? Play route B or route C!" and you can tell how forced it is because of Conquest’s ending literally shoving it in your face like oH wHaT wHaT hApPeNeD???? At least none of the info available on one route is really important on the other, like kingdom slitherer shenanigans not really mattering on any other route. You can tell it’s just about money here.

Birthright is definitely like this. Even if it wasn't the intent, it comes across as them leaving content unfinished to sell DLC.

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I mean Birthright is 95% filler chapters. Is that a full story?

Nope. Most of Birthright is doing nothing until the end. Could've finished the story in less than half the time the game takes to tell it.

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I’m not so sure about that, secret evil cults have never been popular in fe, and Revelations is basically secret evil cult with no reason for being evil: the game.

"What have you discovered, Corrin and Azura?"

"Uh...can't tell you!"

"Why?"

"Because we can't!"

"Okay! I'll believe you for no legitimate reason whatsoever! Let's go!"

"Yeah!"

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1 hour ago, Murozaki said:

Calling Micaiah a "Mary Sue" (A term that means nothing and is worthless) is pretty much dead these days though, fandoms' opinions on certain things tends to shift through the years. I rarely if ever see people complaining about Micaiah being a "Mary Sue" in any FE-focused discussion space today. If anything Micaiah seems to be one of the more well-liked Lords these days, as whenever i see her writing is brought up it is often done so in praise for her being so unconvential compared to most other Lords in the series.

 

1 hour ago, Axie said:

i definitely agree the stu/sue term is beyond worthless! it's a cop out when people are bothered and don't know how to express themselves. it's how people call them, though, so that's what i have to mention lol.


It tends to be misused as a general purpose insult, but Mary Sue refers to an author’s self-insert who is poorly developed, flawless, and universally adored by the rest of the cast for no good reason.

Fire Emblem lords get labeled as a Sue/Stu when they are perceived to have no flaws or make no mistakes (Ephraim/Ike/Alm) or are perceived to be overpowered or unfairly adored (Micaiah).

IMO the avatars are closest to the original definition. Kris was awkwardly inserted into Mystery’s plot to flatter the player, and the other avatars also suffer from being the player’s proxy; they must constantly be praised, characters obsess over them to the detriment of their own characterisation, and any criticism or dislike they receive must be portrayed as unreasonable and quickly dismissed, and they must support and be able to marry the entire cast.

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20 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Birthright is definitely like this. Even if it wasn't the intent, it comes across as them leaving content unfinished to sell DLC.

Conquest’s ending is kinda funny with just how much they shove it down your throat. You know what happens to Azura at the end of Birthright? That happens in Conquest’s ending too, but with no setup or explanation. And they spend so much time going “what could have happened??” heheh....

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12 hours ago, Murozaki said:

It's why i have some issues with how perfect some of the Neutral Endings in the Megami Tensei games tend to be, and even those are still implemented a little better for me than something like Revelations since at least with the Megami Tensei Neutral Endings you often need to choose the right dialogue options and in some games juggle Chaos and Law points so you don't lean too heavily into one extreme.

The other thing about SMT Neutral endings that make them not perfect, despite the tendency for them to be shoved at you as the "best" option when there shouldn't be one; is that they preserve the circumstances that make another occurrence of the apocalypse possible. I read about the Redux True Neutral ending of Strange Journey, and whilst it's likely the best possible Neutral in the franchise in that humanity has gained protection against future apocalypses, that it is stated that they do happen is a problem.

To tie this into FE, has any FE ever suggested that the peace that results from its ending will not long endure and be happy? RD sorta does, but thats about it from what I'm aware of.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

What are you smoking? It's super popular to criticize Alm's character writing. I literally have criticism for him in my sig. It's not a radical take at all that Alm is a sue.

I'd appreciate you not adding that first part next time.

There are definitely critics of Alm's character writing, especially more recently, but as others have said, really not as much as characters like Rey, Celica, and Micaiah, even though he deserves it as much or more.

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To tie this into FE, has any FE ever suggested that the peace that results from its ending will not long endure and be happy? RD sorta does, but thats about it from what I'm aware of.

Binding Blade! The Demon Dragon is still at large and the main characters seem to grossly underestimate her powers.

Jokes aside, does RD really imply anything of that sort? At the end of the game, all the rulers are personal friends (to varying degrees, of course, but without any trace of animosity between them, as far as I remember) and the internal conflicts in Crimea and Begnion seem to be largely settled. Skimming over the epilogue, Miccy's blurb even directly states that she "ushered in a new era of prosperity".

I would say that the biggest subversion of a Happily Ever After in FE was the beginning of Radiant Dawn, which pulls a bit of a "well ACTUALLY" on Path of Radiance's happy end, with realpolitics catching up to Elincia, Begnion's ruling class being a bunch of self-righteous bastards (well, this one was already established in PoR) an Daein suffering because of that.

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7 hours ago, Sooks said:

This actually isn’t true, both Birthright and Conquest go "Wanna know about plot point X? Play route B or route C!" and you can tell how forced it is because of Conquest’s ending literally shoving it in your face like oH wHaT wHaT hApPeNeD???? At least none of the info available on one route is really important on the other, like kingdom slitherer shenanigans not really mattering on any other route. You can tell it’s just about money here.

That may be, but the story still functions on its own; they may pull annoying cash grabs at the end, but you can play Birthright alone and have a pretty decent idea of what is going on.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

The tagline for Conquest is that you change your misguided kingdom from within. Do you do that? Ahahaha no.

I mean, the tagline for for FE7 was "BUILD AN ARMY. TRUST NOBODY." yet you never deploy more than eighteen units at a time, which doesn't constitute as an army.

Anyways, my point wasn't that Fates's story is good, but rather that it could have been excellent and have told a well-told story, whereas I feel that TH couldn't very well; the amount of shared assets between routes and other cracks kind of show that things were VERY tight in terms of release.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

’m not so sure about that, secret evil cults have never been popular in fe, and Revelations is basically secret evil cult with no reason for being evil: the game.

Well yeah, that's what I meant by "handled differently." I personally feel that Rev, (much like the rest of Fates) had a lot of missed opportuniies and that was one of them.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

All of these games are pretty cold. But I agree with all of them.

Dang, I didn't know that I was supposed to keep Three Houses in the fridge.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

Except the Kronya part, a member of TWISTD should have been playable but not her.

Yeah. There are only Three named TWISTD members though, and she's the only one who would kind of come close to being playable.

Come to think of it, it would have been a cool twist if Byleth chose to help Kronya and ended up fusing with her and Sothis as well during THAT cutscene.

...And it'd also be stupid. But hey, no wrong answers in brainstorming...

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1 hour ago, Benice said:

That may be, but the story still functions on its own; they may pull annoying cash grabs at the end, but you can play Birthright alone and have a pretty decent idea of what is going on.

Three Houses is one game but more importantly, all four stories stand on their own.

And in Birthright you don’t actually have a decent idea of what’s going on, same as in Conquest, you THINK you know what’s going on, you know everything relevant to the plot, but do you actually know what’s going on? No

”Lol sike you thought”- the Revelations devs in Japanese, probably....

I know that’s unrelated to your point, I just felt like sharing.

1 hour ago, Benice said:

I mean, the tagline for for FE7 was "BUILD AN ARMY. TRUST NOBODY." yet you never deploy more than eighteen units at a time, which doesn't constitute as an army.

Maybe tagline was the wrong word. It was part of the original synopsis or something like that.

Besides at least fe7 acts like you have an army. Corrin says they’re trying to change Nohr in like chapter 8 and it never gets brought up, nor do you change anything from within.

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Anyways, my point wasn't that Fates's story is good, but rather that it could have been excellent and have told a well-told story, whereas I feel that TH couldn't very well; the amount of shared assets between routes and other cracks kind of show that things were VERY tight in terms of release.

Oh. I agree, I just don’t know if your example was the best. Oops.

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Dang, I didn't know that I was supposed to keep Three Houses in the fridge.

I refuse to correct that autocorrect error/typo now.

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Yeah. There are only Three named TWISTD members though, and she's the only one who would kind of come close to being playable.

*cough* Azure Moon *cough*

...what?? Sorry I had to!

Does it even count if you only know their alias and not their real name?

1 hour ago, Benice said:

...And it'd also be stupid. But hey, no wrong answers in brainstorming...

“Nah nah, we’ll go with it”- Fates devs

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2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Three Houses is one game but more importantly, all four stories stand on their own.

I feel like the routes have made it so that, thus far, they didn't feel the need to develop any of the antagonists very well; Dimitri is a literal one-off and we learn nothing at all about Edelgard. Again, it is excusable because it is one game, but I don't like that so much.

I am just very done with major route splits in FE, though.

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

And in Birthright you don’t actually have a decent idea of what’s going on, same as in Conquest, you THINK you know what’s going on, you know everything relevant to the plot, but do you actually know what’s going on? No

I feel like it could have worked but was executed poorly. But I digress.

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Oh. I agree, I just don’t know if your example was the best. Oops.

My example was the best because I'm me! Me! No one else!

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

*cough* Azure Moon *cough*

...what?? Sorry I had to!

REEEEEEEEEEEE

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Nah nah, we’ll go with it”- Fates devs

Kronya's outfit isn't skimpy enough to be a playable in Fates.

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1 minute ago, Benice said:

I feel like the routes have made it so that, thus far, they didn't feel the need to develop any of the antagonists very well; Dimitri is a literal one-off and we learn nothing at all about Edelgard. Again, it is excusable because it is one game, but I don't like that so much.

That only applies to Fates because there is nothing to develop, everything is extremely surface level, no one is developed on any route (for the most part).

Besides Dimitri isn’t really important at all outside of AM and kind of CF kinda, he exists just to be like “ooooo what a mystery play Azure Moon oooooo” but none of it is important at all nor do you have to pay to play Azure Moon so it really doesn’t matter. At least, imo. And also, you don’t really need to learn anything about Edelgard if Fates is what we’re going off of (In focusing way too much on the example right?).

1 minute ago, Benice said:

I am just very done with major route splits in FE, though.

I refuse to let them go before they do a good one! I know they can do it!

1 minute ago, Benice said:

Kronya's outfit isn't skimpy enough to be a playable in Fates.

Are we talking about the same Kronya?

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1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Are we talking about the same Kronya?

Are we talking about the same Fates?

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I refuse to let them go before they do a good one! I know they can do it!

Well they did back in FE5 and FE8 so they can stop now.

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

In focusing way too much on the example right?

...Yeah, kind of. My overall point was that if they must do major route splits, I'd rather have them do it like Fates.

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3 minutes ago, Benice said:

...Yeah, kind of. My overall point was that if they must do major route splits, I'd rather have them do it like Fates.

Oh. I missed that, haha. I actually agree with you, but unless it’s thematically fitting (and they really sell it), I’d rather them do away with the golden route.

4 minutes ago, Benice said:

Well they did back in FE5 and FE8 so they can stop now.

But fe8’s join back together and you don’t pick between whole factions of units!

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1 hour ago, ping said:

Binding Blade! The Demon Dragon is still at large and the main characters seem to grossly underestimate her powers.

Jokes aside, does RD really imply anything of that sort? At the end of the game, all the rulers are personal friends (to varying degrees, of course, but without any trace of animosity between them, as far as I remember) and the internal conflicts in Crimea and Begnion seem to be largely settled. Skimming over the epilogue, Miccy's blurb even directly states that she "ushered in a new era of prosperity".

I would say that the biggest subversion of a Happily Ever After in FE was the beginning of Radiant Dawn, which pulls a bit of a "well ACTUALLY" on Path of Radiance's happy end, with realpolitics catching up to Elincia, Begnion's ruling class being a bunch of self-righteous bastards (well, this one was already established in PoR) an Daein suffering because of that.

Well, there is the post-credits 2nd playthrough scene. Which does indicate that a few centuries after RD (about 400 years), the circumstances had returned to potential continental war. However, 400 years of peace may constitute a "long peace", and adding to what you said, Elincia's reign is regarded as a golden age.

Another thing I was considering with the end of RD, was that the game quietly accepts that racism isn't going to vanish overnight. The issue was responsible for two near-annihilations of humanoid-kind hasn't been entirely resolved, though the character endings then clear up some of this ambiguity. 

PoR into RD is a subversion, true. Though ideally, what I want in this specific case is for the ending, not the start of a planned or unplanned sequel, is to make it clear that the peace you have won, is fragile, you may be able to preserve it into the future, but doing so will require effort and vigilance. I'm not asking for darkness -that 95% of the world is scarred and that great evil could remerge in three months if you ever slept again- I'm asking for realism. But, FE is better staying happy in the end, I don't really want this.

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Just now, Sooks said:

But fe8’s join back together and you don’t pick between whole factions of units!

GOOD

Honestly, I have no clue what they'll do for the next FE, though. I presume that it'll be a remake, but who knows?

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37 minutes ago, Benice said:

Honestly, I have no clue what they'll do for the next FE, though. I presume that it'll be a remake, but who knows?

After a remake, which won't add route splits where they didn't exist, I would politely advise IS via a maxed-volume megaphone in their employee lounge "Please delay the route split!".

Would White Clouds get as much flak as it does if you hadn't already chosen who you'd side with? Pretend if White Clouds consisted entirely of battles and banter exploring the continent and the positives and negatives of each character/route-to-be. And that you didn't choose a route until the end of it, when Rhea, Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude form one giant knot on the ground wrestling each other with one hand with the other aiming a sword with the intent to use it at the others' vulnerable areas. 

Shin Megami Tensei has always been the opposite of Fates/3H, you don't choose until the 11th hour is at hand. Now admittedly, even when you have chosen in SMT, they usually haven't gone very far with how much unique content each route gets. SMTIV was very unusual in its choice to give Law and Chaos their own distinctive final dungeons, which the "sequel" IV: Apocalypse didn't have, it went back to one final dungeon universal to all routes, with a few bosses being the one major difference.

And, there is a third option, that so-so Langrisser I&II remake game on Switch seems without having played it, to operate on one major split during the early-midgame, and then offers a series of smaller branching offs later.

In short, if FE wants to break from a singular narrative yet again, they should consider alternative ways of handling it. Particularly if as White Clouds was, they opt regardless of chosen route to keep a large quantity of the battles exactly the same.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Besides Dimitri isn’t really important at all outside of AM and kind of CF kinda, he exists just to be like “ooooo what a mystery play Azure Moon oooooo” but none of it is important at all nor do you have to pay to play Azure Moon so it really doesn’t matter. At least, imo. And also, you don’t really need to learn anything about Edelgard if Fates is what we’re going off of (In focusing way too much on the example right?).

This is actually one thing in regards to 3H’s story I will actually defend. The Dimitri and Edelgard conflict is one of my favorites in the game and I love how the battle is handled in both AM and CF cause it’s handled differently in each route but there’s a reason for that. Think about it why does Edelgard beat Dimitri in one route but lose in another. She loses in AM because she loses sight of herself and her ideals. She fails to stay true to herself which is reflected in the fact that she sacrifices her own body and turns into a literal monster for the sake of achieving her goals no different from how Dimitri acted before realizing that murderous psychopath is not the right thing to do. He is able to snap out of it and stay true to himself and his own ideals. Therefore he wins the ideological conflict against Edelgard.

The same is true in CF just inverse the roles. Dimitri is never able to stay true to himself because circumstances are different. He’s still the bloodthirsty revenge driven psychopath he always was. Edelgard, on the other hand, is able to stay true to herself and thus wins the ideological conflict. 

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5 hours ago, Florete said:

I'd appreciate you not adding that first part next time.

There are definitely critics of Alm's character writing, especially more recently, but as others have said, really not as much as characters like Rey, Celica, and Micaiah, even though he deserves it as much or more.

What are you smoking is an equivalent to something like "Where have you been" or "Have you been paying attention". Because in my experience the critics of Alm are much higher than that of Celica and Micaiah at this point in time (I'll not compare to a different much larger fanbase that I have little interest in). Any criticism of Celica will go hand in hand with people criticizing Alm for the contrast they make that weakens both their characters. It is by no means a niche or small opinion that Alm in Shadows of Valentia has serious character flaws.

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well, there is the post-credits 2nd playthrough scene. Which does indicate that a few centuries after RD (about 400 years), the circumstances had returned to potential continental war. However, 400 years of peace may constitute a "long peace", and adding to what you said, Elincia's reign is regarded as a golden age.

Another thing I was considering with the end of RD, was that the game quietly accepts that racism isn't going to vanish overnight. The issue was responsible for two near-annihilations of humanoid-kind hasn't been entirely resolved, though the character endings then clear up some of this ambiguity. 

PoR into RD is a subversion, true. Though ideally, what I want in this specific case is for the ending, not the start of a planned or unplanned sequel, is to make it clear that the peace you have won, is fragile, you may be able to preserve it into the future, but doing so will require effort and vigilance. I'm not asking for darkness -that 95% of the world is scarred and that great evil could remerge in three months if you ever slept again- I'm asking for realism. But, FE is better staying happy in the end, I don't really want this.

The Radiant Dawn epilogue occurs 1200 years after Radiant Dawn (which is a hell of a long peace time imo). Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia also both end on a note saying that war will enviably happen again. Not quite sure exactly why that's thrown in though. It's true, but it comes across as a bit cynical after all the characters went to to mend the divide in their land.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

What are you smoking is an equivalent to something like "Where have you been" or "Have you been paying attention". Because in my experience the critics of Alm are much higher than that of Celica and Micaiah at this point in time (I'll not compare to a different much larger fanbase that I have little interest in). Any criticism of Celica will go hand in hand with people criticizing Alm for the contrast they make that weakens both their characters. It is by no means a niche or small opinion that Alm in Shadows of Valentia has serious character flaws.

Then phrase it like that next time. They're not equivalents, "What are you smoking" implies the person is not in their right mind, the other two only imply they haven't seen the same thing as you.

Which happens to be the case here, because in the overall fanbase, not just SF, I've seen much less criticism of Alm than Celica or Micaiah. Even on here, while Alm might have more said about him, it's from fewer people; any one individual I've found is more likely to be critical of Celica than Alm, they just might not dive deeply into it. This was especially the case for about a year after SoV released. A few recent drawn-out debates don't nullify everything else.

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1 hour ago, Florete said:

Then phrase it like that next time. They're not equivalents, "What are you smoking" implies the person is not in their right mind, the other two only imply they haven't seen the same thing as you.

Which happens to be the case here, because in the overall fanbase, not just SF, I've seen much less criticism of Alm than Celica or Micaiah. Even on here, while Alm might have more said about him, it's from fewer people; any one individual I've found is more likely to be critical of Celica than Alm, they just might not dive deeply into it. This was especially the case for about a year after SoV released. A few recent drawn-out debates don't nullify everything else.

This is literally something people (well that is to say me) were discussing before Shadows of Valentia was even released. Are you referring to this thread about the recent drawn out debates that don't count?

Because look at the first comment I made in that thread (linked above) where I point out that issues with Alm have been very well established and discussed by the fandom. I literally manage to predict every point and counter point people made in the thread up until that point without looking because I've seen it discussed so much. People's response to to Alm and the counter responses are literally that predictable. The only reason I can think of that you would think Alm get's lesser criticism than Celica is that, aside from a few outliers, people are largely in agreement about Alm while there's more meat on the bones of the Celica discussion as her issues are more complex as it involves another character too who could be changed to improve her writing. But even given that, in this very thread we've discussed Alm more than Celica. Searching Alm in this thread gives twelve pages of results while searching Celica gives ten. Of course this is a bitching thread, but that doesn't mean every comment of a character is going to be negative, but people giving Shadows of Valentia legitimate praise that isn't "I like this controversial aspect everyone else hates" is very, very few and very, very far between.

Edited by Jotari
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Who cares how many or how few people criticize a character. What matters is how valid the basis is for that criticism.

Alm and Rey are both Chosen Ones, more or less. Alm was identified as such from birth, trained and groomed for the role by Mycen, and has reasonable feats for a lord. I can only vaguely remember SW7, iirc Rey spends her childhood salvaging junk with no mentor of any kind, spontaneously unlocks Force powers because why not, and without any training, fights a draw with an experienced warrior and Force user. IMO there’s a lot more basis to criticize how Rey is written compared to Alm.

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34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Radiant Dawn epilogue occurs 1200 years after Radiant Dawn (which is a hell of a long peace time imo). Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia also both end on a note saying that war will enviably happen again. Not quite sure exactly why that's thrown in though. It's true, but it comes across as a bit cynical after all the characters went to to mend the divide in their land.

Actually, I'm uncertain of that. Is it 1200 years? Or is it 400 years? Why do I consider the latter possibility? Because, does Ashunera have the memories of her two halves? If she does, it's 1200, if she doesn't, it's 400. We aren't given answer to this.

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