What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, ping said:

Maybe North is downward on that map?

That isn't without historical precedent actually. The Arabic world I believe preferred south as being at the top of their maps.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Samz707 said:

Funny enough, a friend of mine actually joked how Valentia isn't much of a continent considering how the game somewhat gives you a time-frame of how long it takes to traverse it. (since the game has in-game dates.)

Wasn't aware it was actually a retcon.

Personally I don't mind the little cameos, granted I'm very much against the Outrealm stuff.

 

If we go down that road Fodlan is hilariously tiny as you can travel to three different corners of it and reject a foreign invasion all in a single weekend!

Valentia is described as a "Remote Island" in the intro to Gaiden, at least in the translated script. I've check two translations that both used that term. My auto translate on the Japanese script renders it as "Island on the frontier" while google translate calls it a strange island. So it's not solidly stated it's not a continent either. But there's other stuff, namely the fact that they manage to have a damn running across the entire east west span of the island that could literally flood the entire southern part. A land mass couldn't really be that big to create such a structure with such consequences. I (and I think I might have been the first one to suggest this implication) outlined all the other reasons in this old post.

Both translations do have Zeke referring to Valentia as a continent when you recruit him. Specifically when he quotes what Rudolf says. But I think both occasions the translators were being more poetic than in the original text. This is what he says in the Japanese version

そのものこそ　リゲルを・・・
　　　そして　このバレンシアをすくう
　　　えらばれしものなり・・・と

Which is translated as

And then, for this continent of Valencia as well, if he could become the savior..

But I can't actually find the word for continent in there by disassembling parts of it in google translate or by searching for the term for continent. Maybe he said land or something similar. He doesn't specifically mention continent either in the Shadows of Valentia script

Is that so? Some time ago, Emperor Rudolf gave me what I thought was odd advice. He said that if I met a man with a mark on his left hand, I was to follow him. “For that man is chosen,” he said. “He shall save all of Rigel.” “And with it, all of Valentia.”

Of course a pretty basic counter argument would be that it's certainly big enough to have both a volcano and a desert on it. Which, eh, I don't know geography enough to comment on the validity of.

[joevar]

9 hours ago, ping said:

Maybe North is downward on that map?

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That isn't without historical precedent actually. The Arabic world I believe preferred south as being at the top of their maps.

but if north and south flipped, then the shape of continent will flipped accordingly too. i've checked in-game map of Valentia and Archanea, both are shaped like that picture, not rotated 180 degree, or flipped by mirroring image. So yeah, the problem is they put it in wrong place, just that.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

If we go down that road Fodlan is hilariously tiny as you can travel to three different corners of it and reject a foreign invasion all in a single weekend!

Valentia is described as a "Remote Island" in the intro to Gaiden, at least in the translated script. I've check two translations that both used that term. My auto translate on the Japanese script renders it as "Island on the frontier" while google translate calls it a strange island. So it's not solidly stated it's not a continent either. But there's other stuff, namely the fact that they manage to have a damn running across the entire east west span of the island that could literally flood the entire southern part. A land mass couldn't really be that big to create such a structure with such consequences. I (and I think I might have been the first one to suggest this implication) outlined all the other reasons in this old post.

Is that so? Some time ago, Emperor Rudolf gave me what I thought was odd advice. He said that if I met a man with a mark on his left hand, I was to follow him. “For that man is chosen,” he said. “He shall save all of Rigel.” “And with it, all of Valentia.”

Of course a pretty basic counter argument would be that it's certainly big enough to have both a volcano and a desert on it. Which, eh, I don't know geography enough to comment on the validity of.

volcano and desert cant be in one tiny island? my country has islands with several volcanoes (active & inactive) as much as 5 in the span of less than 400 Kilometres

altho if you meant, one tiny island cant fit so many different Biomes / environment, then usually no.
but if the island big enough, lets say like australia to be called a continent, and then you stretch it vertically (like valentia) then i believe you could. CMIIW, longer Latitude have more chances to create different climate than Longitude. since my country have long longitude and more or less same climate/environment from far left to far right.

also, that dam must be world wonder

but the true Big Brain question is: why should it follow earth rule? those continent might as well exist in different galaxy with different rules (did archanea called planet earth at one point?)

Edited November 29, 2020 by joevar

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, joevar said:

but if north and south flipped, then the shape of continent will flipped accordingly too. i've checked in-game map of Valentia and Archanea, both are shaped like that picture, not rotated 180 degree, or flipped by mirroring image. So yeah, the problem is they put it in wrong place, just that.

volcano and desert cant be in one tiny island? my country has islands with several volcanoes (active & inactive) as much as 5 in the span of less than 400 Kilometres

altho if you meant, one tiny island cant fit so many different Biomes / environment, then usually no.
but if the island big enough, lets say like australia to be called a continent, and then you stretch it vertically (like valentia) then i believe you could. CMIIW, longer Latitude have more chances to create different climate than Longitude. since my country have long longitude and more or less same climate/environment from far left to far right.

also, that dam must be world wonder

but the true Big Brain question is: why should it follow earth rule? those continent might as well exist in different galaxy with different rules (did archanea called planet earth at one point?)

Indeed, many islands are practically made of volcanos. It's a bone fide desert that's more problematic. Especially with how fertile volcanos tend to make nearby soil. But of course we all know how fond Fire Emblem is of including deserts in its continents despite being largely based on the mostly desertless Europe.

[Acacia Sgt]

Are you guys forgetting the desert (or at least, its size) is the result of Mila having used her power to keep southern Velentia fertile for pretty much thousands of years, but the sudden stop caused by her sealing made the land slowly go bad and the desert to expand? It's in the official timeline:

Having lost Mila’s divine protection, strange happenings persisted throughout Zofia, such as the expansion of the arid desert and snowfall even in warm places.

Also, in regards to a desert on an island... well...

Would this count?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottori_Sand_Dunes

Also, the volcano is nowhere near the desert. If the volcano we're talking about is the Dragon's Maw. That's in northwest Rigel. Desert is in northeast Zofia.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

31 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Are you guys forgetting the desert (or at least, its size) is the result of Mila having used her power to keep southern Velentia fertile for pretty much thousands of years, but the sudden stop caused by her sealing made the land slowly go bad and the desert to expand? It's in the official timeline:

Having lost Mila’s divine protection, strange happenings persisted throughout Zofia, such as the expansion of the arid desert and snowfall even in warm places.

Also, in regards to a desert on an island... well...

Would this count?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottori_Sand_Dunes

Also, the volcano is nowhere near the desert. If the volcano we're talking about is the Dragon's Maw. That's in northwest Rigel. Desert is in northeast Zofia.

Mila keeping the lands fertile would presumably mean the desert is the natural state of the environment. As for the volcano being nowhere near the desert that's sort of the point. The bigger the landmass the further away the two environments are, the smaller it is the closer it suggests they are. So ultimately it suggests a bigger scale.

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Mila keeping the lands fertile would presumably mean the desert is the natural state of the environment. As for the volcano being nowhere near the desert that's sort of the point. The bigger the landmass the further away the two environments are, the smaller it is the closer it suggests they are. So ultimately it suggests a bigger scale.

Not quite. The desert doesn't have to be larger before Mila's arrival to Valentia. Only thing certain is that she likely kept it from growing for thousands of years. Then with her gone, desertification happens near it.

We gotta take the topography into account. The Fear Mountain Rage lies between the Dragon's Maw and the desert. That's a big enough physical barrier for volcanic soil to be present on the other side.

[ping]

2 hours ago, joevar said:

but if north and south flipped, then the shape of continent will flipped accordingly too. i've checked in-game map of Valentia and Archanea, both are shaped like that picture, not rotated 180 degree, or flipped by mirroring image. So yeah, the problem is they put it in wrong place, just that.

My thought was that maybe the north/south axis hasn't been established, period. North = Up is completely arbitrary, so it would be absolutely possible that all the maps of Akaneia that we've seen are "upside down".

It would be easily falsified if there's any explicit mention of country X being N or S of coutry Y in one of the games (maybe outside of FE12, in case the fan translation has been assuming N = Up without it being clarified in the Japenese text), but I'm not interested enough to go through the entire Shadow Dragon script.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ping

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, ping said:

It would be easily falsified if there's any explicit mention of country X being N or S of coutry Y in one of the games (maybe outside of FE12, in case the fan translation has been assuming N = Up without it being clarified in the Japenese text), but I'm not interested enough to go through the entire Shadow Dragon script.

Well, you're in luck.

Chapter 5:

Trace a line around the continent’s north-eastern plains, and you have Aurelis.

First mention on the world map. It stablishes the upper right region as the northeast, where Aurelis is.

Chapter 7:

They followed the Middleroad south, bound for Akaneia Palace

Clearly stablishes Archanea is south of Aurelis, since they have to travel from the latter to reach the former.

Chapter 16:

Still smarting from their bitter experience with Gharnef and the dark magic Imhullu, Prince Marth and the League regrouped and marched south- home to Altea.

Altea is stablished as south of Khadein.

Chapter 15:

Gotoh:
“My name is Gotoh…I am speaking to you from Medon through magic.”

When you find the Lightsphere and Starsphere, bring them to me.

Chapter 19:

Marth:
“Never fear; I have them. We need to take these to Gotoh so he can undo Imhullu’s magic…But first, Nyna, we’ve a more pressing task ahead of us.”

“We must defeat Grust once and for all. If we march south without finishing them off, we have our rear exposed.”

Stablishes Macedon is south from the Fane of Raman.

Chapter 20:

Malledus:
“Then shall we go to Thabes? Lord Gotoh said the city lies someplace far to the north of Khadein.”

Self-explanatory. Thabes north of Khadein.

---

And this is only pertaining to the world map. More mentions of north and south exist in reference to the chapter maps.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Baldrick]

Assuming their world is round, one should be able to get from Archanea to Valentia by going either east or west. Perhaps Catria and Palla just took the long route?

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

Assuming their world is round, one should be able to get from Archanea to Valentia by going either east or west. Perhaps Catria and Palla just took the long route?

Assuming the east isn't where Jugdral lay and they missed it somehow.

Or, given the difference of over one thousand years between Marth's adventure and the happenings of Jugdral if ~-740 on the Archanea calendar is when Loptous went over to Jugdral, then it's possible the Whitewings could've sailed east. They would've been able to miss Jugdral, because the continent isolated itself by: activating an invisibility cloak, turning on the continental levitation system, and then triggered the spatial distortion device to create a seamless wormhole effect to "shrink" the globe without anyone noticing it.

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Assuming the east isn't where Jugdral lay and they missed it somehow.

Or, given the difference of over one thousand years between Marth's adventure and the happenings of Jugdral if ~-740 on the Archanea calendar is when Loptous went over to Jugdral, then it's possible the Whitewings could've sailed east. They would've been able to miss Jugdral, because the continent isolated itself by: activating an invisibility cloak, turning on the continental levitation system, and then triggered the spatial distortion device to create a seamless wormhole effect to "shrink" the globe without anyone noticing it.

I like this theory. I like it a lot.

[joevar]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

we all know how fond Fire Emblem is of including deserts in its continents despite being largely based on the mostly desertless Europe.

this to be honest. you gotta bet theres gonna wetlands, desert, and volcano(s) in every continent of fire emblem just that the composition and positioning that makes us confused

6 hours ago, ping said:

My thought was that maybe the north/south axis hasn't been established, period. North = Up is completely arbitrary, so it would be absolutely possible that all the maps of Akaneia that we've seen are "upside down".

It would be easily falsified if there's any explicit mention of country X being N or S of coutry Y in one of the games (maybe outside of FE12, in case the fan translation has been assuming N = Up without it being clarified in the Japenese text), but I'm not interested enough to go through the entire Shadow Dragon script.

you missed the point i think, or maybe im the one who misunderstand.. either way i will provide a comparison image later

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

Assuming their world is round, one should be able to get from Archanea to Valentia by going either east or west. Perhaps Catria and Palla just took the long route?

sure, but then they must be circling the entire valentia continent before going ashore/ meeting Celica since they met her in right side of the map, and Archanea also happen to be on the far-right side of the map.

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

activating an invisibility cloak, turning on the continental levitation system, and then triggered the spatial distortion device to create a seamless wormhole effect to "shrink" the globe without anyone noticing it.

continental levitation system 😨😨😨

there must be tsunamis everywhere in the planet while loptyr doing his work, RIP

Edited November 30, 2020 by joevar

[joevar]

i had too much time, so here it is @ping @Acacia Sgt @Jotari

first, im putting valentia onn the left because most recent game SoV and before it Awakening place valentia/valm on the left. im not using north/south/eas/west but arrow and number for visual aid

so in acacia image valentia is on the right side of the map , so maybe they mirror the image before printed it:

nope, the shape didnt match with image from printed book, so what if we turn it 180 degree

nope, the smaller island position still didnt match.. B-B-Buut what if they (editor, or whoever) flipped it then mirror it somehow before printing it??

so thats it, its whoever draw this, is the one at fault

[Acacia Sgt]

I mean, that's pretty much what it is. We have to accept that sometimes mistakes are made. Since every other mention of the position of the two continents, including apparently the very text in that picture, says it's Valentia west of Archanea, and using the standard North=Up when depicting them. To have one picture showing otherwise points more to being a mistake, specially if the other evidence has been stated both before and after this picture got made.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Sidereal Wraith]

I like the GBA trilogy of FE games more then the 3DS trilogy of games. 

[joevar]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I like the GBA trilogy of FE games more then the 3DS trilogy of games. 

thats popular opinion afaik

[Sidereal Wraith]

1 hour ago, joevar said:

thats popular opinion afaik

Not with the circles I run with.

[Florete]

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Not with the circles I run with.

What circles are those? Among any community I've encountered that's actually played them all, preferring the GBA games (Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones specifically) is definitely the popular opinion.

[Sidereal Wraith]

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

What circles are those? Among any community I've encountered that's actually played them all, preferring the GBA games (Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones specifically) is definitely the popular opinion.

On the Teehee thread of doom many have expressed their displeasure with the GBA games.

[Shrimpica]

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

On the Teehee thread of doom many have expressed their displeasure with the GBA games.

I knew you were talking about us, as many of us are either on the Kaga or the modern Spectrum 

But we are by no means representives of the fanbase haha

[Sidereal Wraith]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

I knew you were talking about us, as many of us are either on the Kaga or the modern Spectrum 

But we are by no means representives of the fanbase haha

On the Teehee thread of doom...where their melodious Teehees are offered as prayer up to the blasted night sky.

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

On the Teehee thread of doom many have expressed their displeasure with the GBA games.

Isn’t that just Shrimpy that dislikes all the gba titles, or even two of them?

2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

But we are by no means representives of the fanbase haha

Truth

[null]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

On the Teehee thread of doom many have expressed their displeasure with the GBA games.

I actually like the GBA games, barring vanilla FE6, tbh. FE8 in particular I think is the best of them.

And quite honestly, I've come to love them as much as, if not more than the 3DS games overall. I generally prefer the more classic vibe and gameplay of the older games compared to the modern feel of Fateswakening. Although Three Houses is distinct enough from Fateswakening to make it feel like a different phase for modern FE altogether, IMO.

Edited December 1, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Axie]

binding blade is one remake away from showing all y'all serfs why it already is the best fire emblem game and would be even better with only some slight modernisation

with that said, my actual unpopular opinion for the post is that intsys is actually way too faithful in its remakes and i wouldn't mind if the next was a bit more different from the original. genealogy, in particular, would benefit from being remade into basically a different game lol.